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"Today’s fuels are produced to very tightly defined specifications to make sure they can meet the requirements of modern engines, minimise pollution and give optimum performance. To make sure that the fuel you buy has the properties and additives your engine needs, the specifications are defined in a set of British and European standards. By law all fuel sold must meet these standards. Why all the fuss about specifications and standards? Well, the most obvious purpose of fuel in a car is to burn and provide energy for the engine, but all fuels – petrol or diesel – are a complex mixture of chemicals with a variety of properties. Some of these properties are useful and manufacturers can exploit them before the fuel is burnt. Other properties are not at all useful and have to be overcome.
The main useful property is that, being oil based, fuels can act as a lubricant for the very accurately manufactured injection equipment. The lubricating property of diesel and petrol is a part of the standard, so engine designers can rely on the fuel lubricating their pumps and injectors to have the right lubricating qualities to keep things running smoothly. Additives may be included to ensure the fuel meets the standard.
The speed at which the fuel burns is another important factor which needs to be accurately controlled – this is indicated by the Octane rating for petrol or Cetane rating for diesel. If it burns too quickly, the engine will be overstressed and knock; if it burns too slowly you have a serious drop in engine efficiency and the exhaust valves are liable to burn out. Once again, engine designers can rely on a consistent rate of burning when they are specifying things like injector or ignition timing and they can programme the engine management system to optimise performance, economy and emissions.
Then there are the properties which need to be overcome, chief among which is the tendency for traces of heavier oils in the fuel to form deposits where you really don’t want them. These deposits stop the fuel atomising correctly, again reducing fuel efficiency. To avoid this, detergents are added which continually clean the deposits away.
In summary, manufacturers spend millions of pounds on research to ensure that the fuel you buy will run your engine at maximum efficiency. Oil companies in turn spend millions ensuring that the fuel on every filling station forecourt consistently meets the standards the manufacturers rely on and a whole department of government officials carry out checks to make sure everyone’s doing their job properly.
So, you can take advantage of all this research and regulation by filling up with fuel at a filling station, or you can simply tip some old vegetable oil in the tank and hope that it will have the right lubricating qualities, that it will burn at the right speed and then strip the injection system down from time to time in the hope that you’ll clean up all the deposits before they do permanent damage – the choice is yours!"
BP Diesel Supreme is what I use, and it has a cetane value of 45. I also add Diesel boost about 6oz per tank full which boosts cetane to about 50. European Diesel is a minimum of 50 cetane and it is ULSD.
Also, winterized Diesel which I'm sure gets delivered to MN from the refiner/distributor earlier than the rest of us tends to slightly fade MPG in winter months.
Oil consumption for the first 1K ~ 8K is normal until the engine gets a chance to break in. Diesels have a longer break in period. Also, don't let your CRD idle long in those MN winters. The Garret VNT15 Turbo requires a minimum amt of boost pressure to maintain the condition of the seals. Extended periods of idle (20+ minutes)will cause a certain amount of oil consumption that will clog the catalytic converter. Some owners have complained about the CRD running poorly after a long idle (i.e. chugging).
The CRD gets it's maximum MPG when it is operating in the "sweet spot". Operating under peak conditions is at constant speed and 1800rpm. This is where the engine "breathes" at it's best and is delivering the max. torque and max MPG. Depending if your tranny O.D. is working properly 1800rpm = 60mph~ 63mph. This engine does NOT like high rpm's nor does it like to ingest high revs.
When I'm forced to go out of that sweet spot (i.e. 2100rpm = 75mph) my MPG drops to 22 MPG.
My 2005 CRD with just over 6K miles makes weekly business trips between Cincinnati and Indianapolis (FLAT TERRAIN). My MPG is 28. Yes, I drive 60~63mph.
Have the service dept checkout all the hose connections, some have been delivered loose from the factory in Toledo. Especially any piping to and from the turbo as this had cause loss of pressure to and from the turbo/engine for optimum performance.
Recently, I made the same trip to Marshall and got 23. We had a stiff western headwind, I drove 60-65 and the temperature was 12F. By that time of course we were burning the diesel fuel that was winterized. I do not get the same mileage with the winterized fuel which I think we start to see by October 1st.
As much as I dislike getting worse mileage for part of the year, I'm glad I have this "arctic diesel" because it is 3F and by the time I get ready to go this morning it will be an even 0F. I have no trouble starting in this weather. Thing fires up like a champ.
Hope this is helpful. Don't know what to say about the oil issue. I got mine new, drove it 6200 miles and it was down 1/2 quart. Changed the oil, I am still reading full at 9000 miles. I think you have an issue there but not in the mileage department.
A woman in my department at work owns the same vehicle as mine but with a 3.7L V6. She is getting 14 in town with the cold weather and rarely cracks 20 on the highway. I think the aerodynamics are a huge factor when you hit the freeways. She rarely beats the EPA figures on this truck but on her Volkwagen, she does beat the EPA figures. (She was really complaining about her crap mileage with her gas engine and asked about the diesel when I pulled up next to her in the garage). I think it is relative.
Hope you are enjoying your truck otherwise. I really love mine and get a kick out of having a diesel.
:shades:
I just want to make you aware, in case you were'nt, that you need to be careful with regards to the size/length of the travel trailer you buy. It has been the experience of those in my RV club, that towing with a short wheel base vehicle has some serious pitfalls, one should be familiar with. If you plan on buy something huge, i.e.: over 24 feet, with that wheel base, you will have serious issues with sway.
Even with friction sway bars or the newer anti-sway towing systems, the larger than the tow vehicle trailer will cause
a ride, wilder than you will find at most amusement parks. Select a travel trailer that is not too much to handle, control wise, for the CRD. It may have a rating of 5000 lbs., but that does'nt mean you need to match the weight of the trailer to the rating on the tow vehicle. Good luck and have a fun and safe time.
the Liberty is marketed as the Cherokee. So, even though there surely are some differences between the Euro and North Am. versions, I would have thought that the bugs had been worked out! :confuse:
From everything I have been able to read the 5K rating is more for the vehicle than the engine. The engine could tow greater loads but the frame size and wheel base are the limiting factors.
Will
What kind of boat?
Previously I was obtaining 26 to 28 mpg on the 325 mile trip and 23 mpg on my city/hwy commute. A couple of weeks ago I two instances of the engine running very rough as if it were on two cyl i/o four. I suspected the EGR had failed.
Dealership on last Monday diagnosed codes for "multi cyl misfire" and re-flashed the ECU. No other problems found.
Extensive test drive after and mpg was 27 plus on hwy.
(mpg computations are miles driven vs. gallons of fuel used, except for the 27 mpg test drive number where I used the EVIC numbers, FWIW the EVIC has been within 1 mpg of my calculations per tank of fuel so it is fairly accurate)
Right now I have no codes and I very much want to determine what is the cause for poor mpg.
Winterized fuel? I doubt it. Cold weather? Maybe, though I have owned several other diesels and never experienced this type of drop in performance. EGR? Even w/o a code or CEL I still suspect the EGR is part of my problem.
I have sympathy for those who are not obtaining the mpg they would like too as I was obtaining excellent mpg and it was like turning a light switch off when my mpg when off a cliff.
I also have a much greater amount of smoke now.
:confuse:
So far though, no problems for me and I have a build date in late June of '05. If the EGR valve goes, then it goes and gets replaced under warranty, but I like the having the opportunity to own such a rare and unique Jeep.
I just clicked over 3k miles today.
What are other sources of this oil for a decent price? Was under $20 ($19.97) at Walmart for the 5 qt pkg.
New to the board but it looks like a great board.
Since this is my first diesel and I am not familiar with diesels, do I need to add an additive to my diesel fuel during these winter months? If so, what?
Also, my Liberty is a 2005. I currently have 16,000 miles! Got it Easter weekend of this year. Had to have the EGR valve replaced at 10,000 miles. A few other problems such as the brake noise when backing up.
But I love my Liberty.
Thank you, Tony
On the return trip, I brought the rpm's up once, dropped back to 62 and averaged 30.3 mpg on return trip. The car has 3600 mi. I found on the level I could get 31.5 but hills dominate here in n. MI.
I do use power sirvice plus working with another a fuel catalyst which seems to be working. Wonder what it will do when I get to GA and buy summer blend and suck in warm air? Happy sailing BR
i KNOW THE Indianapolis-Cincinnati terrain. Was just there before thanksgiving. Stayed at my son in Laws parents in cincinnati, went to the air force museum in Dayton three days straight. Awesome!! Thanks again.
R 428 DOHC
2800 cc - 4 Cyl. - 16 Valve
The ever increasing popularity of the diesel engine and the increasingly frequent requests for larger capacity engines suitable for heavy passenger vehicle applications has led VM to further evolve the R 425 DOHC.
Increasing the capacity of this engine to 2.8 L was a relatively simple task thanks to the standard wet liners. This means that only changes to the liner, piston and camshaft were necessary. The result is the R 428 DOHC, an engine which offers all of the features and benefits of the R 425 DOHC plus an increase of over 10% more torque at lower revs.
Featuring the same 4 cylinder, four valves per cylinder layout with the latest in common rail injection technology and double balance shaft off the crank in the oil sump, this engine is ideally suited to heavyweight Minivans and SUVs.
Additional technical features are as per the R 425 DOHC and include finger followers on the camshaft and cooled EGR. An optional VGT turbocharger may also be fitted and increases the power output to a class-leading 177 CV.
Engine R 428 DOHC
Displacement 2766 cc
Cylinders 4 in line
Valves 16
Injection Common rail CP3
Max power 130 kW/3800 rpm
Torque 410 Nm/1800 rpm
Weight 220 kg
Emissions EURO 3
Why did we have to wait so many years to find such a rig ?
link title
The issues are not with the EGR valve or gasket itself, but how the air and pressure breaths through the system. If there is not enough air pressure/oxygen per stroke, along with the oxygen level with the re-mixed exhaust then the soot tends to clog the EGR gate.
This is why you see posts of owners "blowing the nose" of the CRD by stepping on the throttle. (Not recommended in my book).Once the EGR gate is fouled, then it throws a fault code (check engine) light.
The technicans these days are "component swappers" and will replace out the EGR valve and gasket because it's fouled and never address the source of the problem. The source is that the control module needs to have the appropriate amount of pressure/oxygen moving per stroke through the EGR valve.
This can be done with a software modification to the engine control module (ECM).
There will be many suggestions on getting the most out of your libby.
I have been getting 26-31 mpg out of mine.
Which I feel is on average higher than everyone else.
I have no garantee's,as I don't know your libbies mechanical condition,but we can try..
First off a diesel's highest torque and efficiency is at or around 1800Rpms,if you can cruise at 1600,BONUS !!.
The thing to remember is don't be dissappointed your still driving the best vehicle for your buck .Just look at all the other SUV's that get 16mpg,and laugh.
You have a... go anywhere , anytime vehicle .
This is what we wanted right?
So here is the nitty gritty of how I get the most out of her.
1/Regular oil changes;
I prefer the Mobile 1 that is uggested in the manual.
,
especially before a long trip,even if you have a month of city driving.This will clean out the sludge and run smoother.Not to mention the longevity of your vehicle.This will help mpg.
2/Before a long trip or towing a load on a trip :
Find fuel stations with premium diesel fuels.
eg.Shell diesel "ULTRA",BP Supreme,etc..Fill up on these.
This will help mpg..on avg 2- 4 mpg better .Paying the premium price may work out better for you.
3/Before a long trip :
add fuel additives to boost cetane for better mpg.
For best results..get an additive with cleaners as well as cetane improver in it. eg.Stanadyne performance plus,powerservice..
4/In winter add to fuel a water dispersant;
additive as well as cetane booster.eg.Stanadyne lubricity formula,Kleen Flo...
Since most gas stations don't drain off water in the ground tanks built up from condensation,and to prevent fuel line freeze up.
If you add this additive it will help mpg as well.when you are pumping fuel ,you may be pumping a certain percentage of water which reduces mileage.This will help reduce the water content.
5/Keep tire pressure at 35lbs.
6/On the HWY ,keep your speed down under 55 mph.
Use cruise control on the staight aways.
Every 5mph under 65 will give a 7% savings on fuel consumption.
The HWY is not a race track and the libby is not a race car , but designed to be a practical , economical vehicle,
Take your time... you'll get there and you'll save, trust me.
Try it for a week,you'll see .Just bring a coffee on the way to work ,and an extra 10 minutes travel time.
To drive a diesel is a different way of thinking.
What is the hurry anyway,when you want to save on fuel ,DRIVE SLOWER !!..
7/Use your OH console showing MPG.
After "cruise" is set bring MPG up and press reset on console then Decelerate till you reach a confortable MPG reading .
You can also zero out the trip odometer on the dash to figure out your mileage on a tank of fuel.
And lastly..
8/Every 2 years change tranny filter ,fluid,and differential fluids,to increase efficiency.I use synthetic fluids only.They pay off in the end,since they have a higher viscocity rating.
Besides since fuel costs stay high ,I get it back in fuel savings.
Have fun experimenting and Happy holidays...
Lightnin3...
Have you heard of EGR problems with the 2.8 L engine in Europe?? I have been told that it is a North American problem. Mine was replaced at 5732 miles, seven days ago. The engine has otherwise been great!!
This is the first small diesel I have ever owned. Previously owned a Dodge pick-up with the 5.9 L Cummins and also a motor home(I think you may refer to them as caravans in EU)with the 5.9 L Cummins, also had a Ford pick-up with the Power Stroke diesel, a recent addition is another motorhome/caravan with a 7.9 L Catipillar diesel.
I see diesel power as a propulsion unit for now and the future as we see less dependence on oil from below the ground and start producing bio fuels from plants grown in the ground. Cheers!!
It comes from people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when they don't.
The Torque peak RPM of a CRD is with the throttle wide open and the turbo at max boost. This has zero to do with where the vehicle will get it's best mpg (unless you are talking WOT mpg, which would be around 4 mpg).
It comes from people trying to sound like they know what they are talking about when they don't.
Go look at the torque chart from VM Motori at this link link title for the R428 engine. Then write them a letter, stating their chart by your calculations is incorrect.
The EGR problems seem to be related to the newer model that has an intercooler. There have been a few problems here as well since these were 'upgraded'. Mine is not cooled, looks very small compared to what you have, and I don't have the throttle valve on my inlet manifold. To get my hands around the engine, I just need to undo the 3 air hoses and there is plenty of accessibility.
Perhaps in the future you will have access to the smaller diesels ~1.4L. They are fun to drive in small cars especially when comes the time to refill because today 60mpg is quite common to carry two adults plus luggage.
Unfortunately oil dependence will go on for some time until we have the proper injection system, but our engine block seems ready. I've not yet seen a drop of oil under the Jeep and I've been using the same parking space for over 2 years. This is cool :shades:
BSFC (fuel comsumption per horsepower) is at full throttle, like in an airplane or generator application. This has zero to to with automotive fuel mileage.
Read your chart again. 200G/kwhr * 70 KW = 14 Kg or 31 lbs of fuel per hour.
You are right. If you keep it at 1800 RPM, you will get 12 mpg, per the graph, which is better than 4 mpg if you don't keep it at 1800 rpm.
I like the vehicle that climbs hills near idle- that I don't have to uncontrollably race the engine if busting trail through snow drifts, for instance.
High torque at low rpm is quite favorable for an off-road vehicle; if you like to keep traction, that is.
Farout
Farout
Farout
Farout
Federal Clean Diesel Tax Credit
...note that the tax break is NOT retro-active.
Oh well, I got Trac-Loc. :P
Are the Bin 5 emissions more stringent than Bin 10?
Emissions US Tier II B in 10 (Euro IV capable)
VM Motori Spec Sheet
I don't know the answer. I'll dig into this deeper later and find the answer (EPA site) if you don't already know it. Right now I have to go put a snow blade on a tractor
Cheers,
Boilermaker