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My guess is since Mobil-Exxon is so large, they get there name in the manual. They have also been making synthetic lubricants for a very long time so people know the name. Do you see Shell advertising Rotella synthetic on the tube? I see ads for their gasoline, but nothing else.
I personally do not use Mobil products and avoid them whenever possible for political reasons and their close ties to the middle east oil suppliers. I will use their products if I cannot find an equivalent made by someone else.
Shell also owns Pennzoil and Quaker State.
It's actually laughable isn't it, Bvcrd. Use 0w40 or else! I go to the Mobil site and get 5w40. You access the site in a different way and get 5w30. Hilarious! I got 5w30 one way, too. I can't stop laughing. :shades:
A real confidence builder.
Having said that, because of all the controversy surrounding the oil, I had a sample analyzed after my last oil change. I just had the 25k service done (and by the way, they did the flashes and my mileage has gone UP by 2mpg-can't explain it, but it did happen). The oil was changed at 6k, 13k and now just short of 25k miles. That means the tested oil was in the engine about 12k miles, which is the "max" listed in the book. I use the 0-40 Oil that the dealer puts in because I get 2 free oil/filter changes per year and that is what they use. My plan is to re-test the oil at 25k.
Here is what the lab said:
"Universal averages show typical wear for this type engine after 8,000 miles. Your oil use was 12,000 miles. We found all wear readings above average levels. That is because your engine is still in break in stage. Consequently, 12k changes are too long for the time being. No fuel, water, or coolant was found in the oil but soot was present in the sample. The oil's viscosity was normal. The TBN was strong at 5.9-1.0 is low. We suggest changing your oil at 8k miles until metals reach average levels".
So, not being a gear head and not wanting to take the time to post all the metal ppms, here is my take on what they said:
1. 12 K changes are too long for the time being
2. Shorter changes will eliminate metals problem
3. 12k does not cause a problem with viscosity
4. "Some" soot was present, but not listed as a problem.
5. 12k changes will work in the future
6. The TBN number was better than just ok and, in fact, this is what the "anti 0w-40 people" whine about all the time
7. All the huffing and puffing you hear on this site regarding what a problem 0-40 is seems to be a whole lotta, well lets just say oil sludge.
www.yourcovers.com/tp_10304.shtml
Check them out! LK
1. Mobil - they are in bed with DCX. There are engineers within that make the supplier decisions. The incumbent is Mobil so others must either show an improvement in performance or lower price (usually both if they want DCX's business). Performance is easy, price is difficult. Most suppliers would rather "make their money" in the service fill business. Also Mobil is the factory fill oil for Detroit Diesel engines and we know who owns DD. Also, most Jeep dealers sell very few Diesel powered vehicles. It does not make sense for them to stock a Diesel oil for the very few vehicles they service. The same goes with DCX, they are going to specify a "common" oil that can be used in 99% of the vehicles they manufacture and sell. Diesel oil costs more than standard gasoline oil. Guess which oil is the factory fill oil? The same applies for tires...Jeep (DCX) sets the engineering spec and the tire suppliers bid based on that spec. The lowest price is the winner! Remember, your vehicle is manufactured by the lowest price supplier! Nuff said on that subject.
2. Owners Manual - I agree with one person's comment...Mobil 1 0W-40 or EQUIVALENT. That quiets the API, FTC, etc.
3. Shell advertising - Shell does not spend advertising money on the consumer market. They make their money and spend advertising money on the "big rigs". Look at any truck stop or trucking magazine. You will see Shell prominently displayed. They are the No. 1 selling HD Diesel engine oil. The vast majority of their product sales is Rotella T 15W-40 mineral oil.
4. Engine wear - one post stated that TBN and Soot were not an issue at 12K miles but wear metals were. First, at 25K miles the engine "break in" is completed. Yes it will continue to "break in" but at a much slower rate. The first 10K miles in a "small" Diesel is when the MAJORITY of the "break in" occurs. Also, when an oil "breaks down" the TBN is usually the first to go then soot. If wear is the first thing...all I can say is the oil is NOT doing its job of protecting the parts! I attribute the increased wear to the CF classification and secondly to 0W. On start up there is NO protection. The oil is too thin.
5. CF versus CI oil - CI oil was developed for EGR engines. Not only is the TBN boosted but also the anti-wear components, increased detergents, and increased dispersants. CJ oil will have even more protection but the price will be higher too.
6. Fuel - Most of the fuel issues I have experienced are from "truck stop" fuel. Yes in most cases all the Diesel fuel in the area is the same. Some truck stops have better "fuel housekeeping" practices than others. They are also the "dumping" ground for off-spec fuel. Truck stops buy fuel on price. If all the fuel comes from the same terminal, then how can some suppliers charge "less" then others? Some suppliers will add cetane improver, detergents, etc. but they will charge for those enhancements. Also what was in the delivery tank trailer before it was filled with Diesel? Diesel fuel is often used to "flush" the trailer. As another person mentioned, "big" Diesel engines are more tolerant of "off-spec" fuel. ULSD with its quality checks dictated by the EPA/EMA should reduce the amount "off spec" fuel being delivered to the end user.
I will get off my soap box now. I am using Shell Rotella T 15W-40 and will eventually switch to Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 during the "colder" months. I also treat every tank of fuel with Stanadyne Performance Formula additive. I KNOW what goes into those products and KNOW they are the best performers. Although I only have 3500 miles on my CRD, I am going to do what "I think best" and will reap the rewards or suffer the consequences. As for you other CRD owners, do what you feel comfortable using. NO one is forcing you to switch. I wish you good luck as we need all the good luck we can get! Thanks and sorry for the long post.
1) Given the low sales volume of the CRD, I suspect the diesel portions of the manual were written with limited editing, so one engineer or manager who liked Mobil wouldn't have to defend his choice to anyone.
2) I think business ethics aren't much these days and DCX being mostly German doesn't play by american rules, and are probably used to getting away with recommending only one brand that they like, even if 10 other brands make an equal or better quality product.
However, and I say this without trepidation, anyone who thinks that Batman is better than Superman is a total idiot!
The dealer honored the warranty without any problems. My question to the masses that read this text is whether others have had injector problems, or was it a lone failure of statistical low significance?
By the way, Marvel comic books were always better than DC. X-Men, Spiderman, Hulk, etc were more creative than either Batman or Superman. However, Batman was the only one I remember having a car. Was it a diesel?
He voided his warrantee burning biodiesel.
Best check the Rules of the Road link on the left:
"The Forums do not allow the publication of phone numbers in posts or user profiles. There is no way Edmunds.com can validate that a phone number is legitimate, and is not being posted to harass someone."
I'm sure DC has contact info on their various web sites.
Steve, Host
this a story about amsoil,a few years ago my son and i were driving a 1988 f-250 with a 460 in when some reason it started running bad right after getting a tank of fuel,and for the me i didnt figure it right away so we turned around and headed back home on the way the started to over heat,we fought it all the way and when we finaly got home it was super hot,so much so that it melted the plastic fender liners,i belivie if we had not amsoil in the crankcase we would have lost the engine,come to find later it was shearpin on the end of the distributor,thank,s
1. CI rated oil will be of benefit even after USLD is in place. The EGR valve is the issue here so you want to use an oil with the best possible detergent package you can get your hands on.
2. The other issue is fuel quality. Even after ULSD is in place, what is the cetane of domestic diesel going to be? I have yet to find an answer. In the EU it is 51 or better. Higher cetane contributes to a cleaner burn with less particulate formation.
3. The Mobil 1 issue. Mobil-Exxon is huge. The can meet the demands of the automakers more easily than any other oil company. They are a household name. As to the oil recommendation in the owners manual, Mobil is mentioned because it is so widely available. I feel that is the main reason it is in the manual. As to the Germans not playing by our rules, I doubt it. They have to play by them to sell there cars in this country, just like the Koreans and Japanese.
The oil is being recommended, not required and by law they cannot require you to use brand X or brand Y.
Schedule B says drain and refill axels at 12,500 mi. Schedule A doesn’t mention axels
Schedule A says check (drain and refill?) transfer case at 12,500 mi. No Mention of transfer case in schedule B.
What’s up with that? Is it just poor tech writing like the mistakes in the remote key function programming instructions?
Farout
Farout
Personally, I pick and chose what schedule on what part I use. Engine oil 8,000 to 9,000 miles, Trans 30,000 miles. The water filter/fuel, it all depends on what comes out when we test drain the bottom, my dealer feels 25,000 miles may be too soon. I refuse to spend any more on this CRD than I do on my wife. This CRD seems to be a money pit if you keep it as schedule B says. My first oil change was $92.00 and I think that's way too much! So I guess it's up to you how you maintain your CRD. After all DCX only made them in 05 and 06, and they have made all they will make by the first part of May anyway.
Can we all say "TEST MARKET WE WERE".
Farout
dsieta
A while back someone was having the problem that the spare was in the way when trying to get trailer hooked up. These guys have our solution. http://www.rocky-road.com/kjmisc.html. They also have a lot of sweet stuff for the old libby.
Personally I would just open the back gate and then hook up the trailer.
push the reset button.
just like the avg mileage indcator.
On another related note: I hate my dealer. Today when went to pick-up there was an extra hundred and twenty dollars on the invoice. I bitched loudly and it went away -- a "clerical error" if I am to believe the person at the desk. But the only thing I really believe about my dealer these days is that they will try to get money in any way possible, and that very little is beneath them :mad:
Maybe time to buy a mule or some other alternative form of transpo. . .On the other hand maybe I'm in for a stretch of clear sailing . . .
the xW-40 part of the oil is important because at operating temperature, the engine designer has chosen a minimum oil film thickness that requires the viscosity to be between 12.5cSt and 16.5 cSt at 100 celcius. A xW-30 would not provide this viscosity at this temp. The oil film in the main and journal bearings would be too thin to support the designed loads and pass the designed largest allowed dirt particles w/o touching the bearing surfaces. Because of the compression ratio and torque output, the oil film needs to be stronger (oil thicker, more viscous) to keep a hydrodynamic wedge going in the journal bearings without letting the journal bearing parts touch.
If there is oil on the inside, the the problem is the oil itself. If you are using the 0W-40, then you are seeing the oil coming apart and the vapors coming from the CCV system being deposited in the hose. Not a good thing.
Try an oil with a lower vaporization rate like Amsoil 15W-40 or the same viscosity from Red Line or Royal Purple. These oils spec out very closely to Mobil 1 5W-40.
If the hose does fail, it is covered under warranty. I had that happen once already.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/Vehicle_Chooser/VehicleCho- oser.aspx?option=2
The owners manual says 5-40 is acceptable when 0-40 is unavailable. Seems like it would be better to have oil that met CI4 spec and that the 5W would be light enough even for very cold weather.
Opinions anyone???
-TSB performed
-got out the original oil that probably had break-in dirt in it
-put in 5W40 instead of 0W40 (assuming dealer did what I asked)
Would I be a weenie if I took it to the dealer to have them replace the wheel stud because it wouldn't torque? (new Jeep, 7,200 miles)(the wheels are Chinese)