Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Comments
Date posted: 06-05-2006
DETROIT — Only a week after announcing plans to offer a new turbodiesel engine in the 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Chrysler said it will discontinue the diesel edition of the Jeep Liberty after model year 2006.
Chrysler said the older diesel engine that is offered in the Liberty doesn't meet tougher federal emissions standards that are being phased in for model-year 2007.
The Liberty offers a 2.8-liter four-cylinder common-rail diesel that delivers 160 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque. The EPA city/highway ratings are 21/26 mpg. The engine is made by VM Motori, a DaimlerChrysler subsidiary.
The Grand Cherokee gets a new Mercedes-Benz 3.0-liter V6 CRD that delivers 215 hp and 376 lb-ft of torque, with projected EPA ratings of 19/23 mpg. In fact, the same engine already is being installed in the Grand Cherokee and Commander in Europe and other overseas markets, as well as in such export models as the Chrysler 300C sedan and wagon.
The Liberty is slated to get a full redesign for model-year 2008. Chrysler is said to be evaluating several diesel options for the next-generation model.
What this means to you: Getting diesel into the U.S. is a tricky dance, but the demand appears to be there on a limited basis. If customers want it, someone will figure a way to get it over here.
Agreed... There is a lot going on there... You really know how to make a guy hate ice cream!
Exclusive series to include young designers as they develop ultra-clean concept vehicles for 2027
DETROIT (2006-06-02) -- Discovery Channel and GM are taking viewers behind the closely guarded doors of GM Design and into the minds of the automaker's innovative, forward thinking designers as part of a new, four-part documentary. Set to debut in 2007, the Discovery Channel program will examine the future of automotive engineering - from design and alternative fuel sources to advanced materials and in-vehicle electronics.
oil depletion is announced but it's replacement is not clearly defined as of today. You face the same dilemma when building a house and choosing the heating system for the next 10 years. Over here it seems diesel will be kept for the larger engines (locomotives, power plants, heavy trucks, etc...) and we are being offered more hybrids that can be used with an alcohol mixture.
I have the impression that the emissions limitation criteria is a cloud of smoke masking the 'short-term' extra effort being not profitable to get the small diesel engines clean. Most of the other diesel powered vehicles on the market have comparable emission levels and besides making the engines more silent, none are better on the EU market. Perhaps one way to cope with the recurrent issues is to have maintenance done on the egr system like Renault does. They just take it out and clean it with a solvent. Why couldn't we do so at every oil change if it's made accessible from the top of the engine compartment? Since these engines perform well when they are new, they are clean on the test bench, we should be able to keep them going.
Jeep has never offered a 4-door CJ or Wrangler based vehicle (at least in the North American Market). The roots of the Wrangler/CJ was the Willys MB. The Dakar was concept vehicle in the early nineties. There was a CJ-6, also a 2-door, that was a longer wheelbase CJ-5 like todays Wrangler Unlimited.
With todays fuel prices anybody that has a SUV or pickup truck the trade-in values are going to drop sharply because of poor fuel economy.
Ford put a Diesel in the Bronco II in the late eighties, it was also a specialty vehicle like our beloved CRD's!
All vehicles used for daily use are expenses not an investment, even my brother's 1987 Buick GNX with 29K on it is not worth what he paid for it even as it sits sheltered in the garage...
I for one am just going to enjoy my CRD until it quits running, fix it, drive it some more. I'll be looking for another as a donor car in a few years.
I believe the Bronco II with diesel is a myth. It was in the brochures and EPA guide, however, the Ranger, Escort, Lincoln MkVII and Continental were the only diesel models offered by Ford. Maybe it was similar to the 1998 VW Passat TDI of which only 3 were sold in North America.
With 11,000 CRD produced, at least there is proof of existence for the CRD!
Now if only Ford/volvo/chevy would follow suit.
If not what is that going to set me back?
The TSB number would be helpfull.
Thanks for the help
I don't think that the CRD was a failure or that DCX even sees it that way and if they do then shame on them. The vast majority of the public didn't even know that the Libby was avalible with a diesel. I didn't see one commercial that said anything about the option or what a great deal the option actually was. Its not the cars job to advertise.
Think about it, for $1000 I got the diesel, 4WD, and the upgraded wheels. Or I could have got the gas model and paid about the same price just for 4WD. (I might have gotten the 6 speed, which I wanted but that is another story)
How many jeep commercials are there on TV, and how many have you seen where they mention the diesel? Not even in the fine print, not even to brag about fuel economy, not even to say we have something that the other guy don't, nothing. So selling 11,000 with NO advertising should say somthing for its selling power. The only advertising it got was from rockcrawling and auto comparison magazines and internet fourms like this one where diesel, biodiesel, and informed auto comsummers/enthusiests dwell.
How many people in this country do there homework before buying a car? My wife bought her last car, before we got married, because "a lady a work has one and its cute". One guy I work with, his car broke down and that afternoon, after about 30min of looking on the internet went out and bought a brand new 4runner, because "its a toyota and they make good cars" He just discovered about a month later that his car has an mp3 player and (after I pointed it out) his car didn't actally come with 4WD/AWD or anything of the like (bone head). Most people buy cars because they like how it looks and the commercial said good things about it. We who do our homework are in the minority.
Not to mention that at one dealer when to, I was tring to talk my way into the CRD at a cheaper price and some slime ball salesman tried to talk me into a gasser because he could "get you in it for the price that you wanted". He said, "what do you know about diesel? Do you know how to start it? You know you can't just crank it up right? You know that you have to plug it in at night right?. Its going to smoke and smell (he said pointing at my wife pregnant belly)" All of which I knew was a load of crap so I called him on it and left. I wonder how many people got turned away from the diesel libby by some slimy dealer tring to hit his quota.
I just purchased my first tankful of ULSD (15 ppm sulfur) late last week. The CRD runs fine on it and is actually a little quieter and smoother at idle.
Still adding additives (detergents and cetane improvers)as they reduce what little smoke I make to almost nil.
Almost 10,000 miles and still runs fine. However, I get a little stumble in the first 30 - 40 meters of driving after starting in the morning. Has always run that way.
Insofar as DCX testing the market for diesels, I think taking advertising out of the equation might have been a way to measure demand without factoring in promotion. The fact that the Grand Cherokee is coming out with the V6 CRD (I think it is probably a better engine that what we have)is a full endorsement of the Liberty CRD 'experiment'. Frankly if the Grand Cherokee had come out with a diesel simultaneously with the Liberty, I'd've picked the Grand Cherokee.
Completely decked out, the Liberty was $8,000 less than I was prepared to spend on a vehicle. But it was the right one to pick so I did.
DCX also has 11,000 relatively happy diesel customers out there happy as owners ever are with their cool pieces of machinery.
Two people at my office are intending to look at a Grand Cherokee diesel when they come out based on riding in my CRD and seeing the mileage display on the center console.
That's advertising too and costs DCX nothing. It is an effective and accepted strategy with niche products which, for the time being, diesel vehicles are.
In three years the landscape will change when Honda brings in oil burners.
Same too with Chrysler as the years go on. four or five years out I can foresee 14-21 day waits for things as simple as hoses and gaskets ... and no loaner for a non-warranty vehicle.
Love the CRD - I bought it for diesel economy and LONGEVITY (otherwise I would have bought a Japanese gasser to get the superior Japanese quality). But this development is making the long-term prospects for the CRD questionable.
Steve, Host
Should be easy to find...they replaced the pads and added a clip or something. I'm telling you it really works...no more noise!
I didn't pay anything for this fix. (Maybe they feel sorry since I'm the one posted a couple of months back with a blown engine.) Well, I got a fully assembled replacement and it's running great!
I've been reading the posts about the new MB diesel. The public's perception will be towards a German engine. Although, I want to point this out. Ask a farmer about Italian diesels and they will tell you they are building some of the best farm equipment on the market. That's how VM got it's start and still builds heavy duty engines for industry, etc.
Do you have the web address for the Star Hotline. I have never been there before.
As for the Bronco 11 I had a 1989 2 wheel drive. It was the most quick turning and dangerous vehicle I have ever driven. I kept it less than 1 year.
Farout
Your Dealer should know. Tell them it's the "hotline" website where DCX Dealerships post problems and to search for "Brake noises on '06 Liberty".
I don't know how this relates to a TSB...maybe pre-TSB with solutions within the Dealerships? (Totally my guess)
P. S. You will find that cylinder head part # 5199 955AA is all one peice.
Thanks! LK :shades:
Cummins has posted tons of information on their 2007 engines at:
http://www.everytime.cummins.com/every/misc/brochures.jsp
From what I see the ISB engine (what's in the Ram) gets a bump to 6.7L from the current 5.9L, gets a variable nozzle turbo of the sliding plate design, and gets a particulate filter. EGR is added but it is accomplished with the VNT and does not appear to have a separate valve. I don't see how this all would cost $4000+ more than the current engine. The displacement costs almost nothing to change for a volume manufacturer (and mind you that the ISB is used in more than just the Ram). The VNT and filter will each cost something, but I can't see them adding up to $4000 more than the present engine, given that there is already a turbo (non-VNT) on the 2006 ISB.
I am very interested because I have a 2006 Ram/Cummins which I am very happy with.
Thanks! LK
The EVIC is reporting very good mileage when running a constant speed over flat ground. It will even show 25-30 mpg for constant low speeds like 20-35 mph.
However, the EVIC is showing absolutely horrible mileage (3 to 6 to 10 mpg) when accelerating from a stop. The mpg reading was equally bad whether I acccelerated slow (~1500 rpm), medium (~2000 rpm) or fast (~2500 rpm). This is consistent with my historical mileage results, where I have been getting about the same 19-20 mpg no matter how I drive.
Conclusion: Any kind of acceleration whatsoever seems to be killing my overall mileage when averaged in with the rest of my "good" mileage.
Is this consistent with what others with EVIC's have noticed? Any thoughts on how to improve the efficiency when accelerating?
I also have noticed that the mileage is worse when first starting out on a trip, but improves after driving for a while.
- CRDblazr
2006 CRD, 11/05 build, 3K miles
With such a small population of CRD's out there dealers won't stock parts, and within a few years neither will DC's regional parts depots (except perhaps for oil filters); to the extent there will be parts stocked in the U.S. they'll be at DC's primary depot (wherever the heck that is), meaning that if my dealer has to order something who knows how long it'll take before it makes it through DC's parts transit system.
Hence my comment about 14-21 days without my CRD while waiting for even "common" parts such as internal gaskets, exhaust system (which I assume is unique to the CRD) etc.
As for the Bluetec in the GC, I like the theory, but don't know how it'll play out. It'll be a brand new engine, and while Mercedes' old diesels used to be unstoppable, MB's quality has gone to absolute crap in the last decade, so who knows how this engine will be.
Second, the idea of having to go to the dealer to buy bottles of "urea" (at what price?) and then add it to a holding tank periodically (every thousand miles?) isn't exactly a thrilling prospect. Not a deal-killer, but I'd really rather not have to be bothered.
I would like to make some suggestions that helped me with the mileage on my CRD.
If you follow a few these few rules of operation,it "may" benefit you in the mileage department,since I am above the 30mpg mark ..I have bragging rights...
No Garantees' mate , but all I can do is suggest the rest is up to you.
This is from my experience and experimentation..Ok?
You "will" yield better mileage if...
1/Oil changes, oil changes, oil changes...
before a long trip,or every 4000 miles do an oil change ,and use the mobile 1 - 0 W40 Synthetic.
2/check the air filter every 4 monthes for dirt and bugs .
If really plugged, change it out with a K&N filter.
3/Keep tire pressure above 35-36 psi.
4/When on the hiway try to keep speed under *** 60 mph***.
This will keep your RPM's down averagely under 1900,which is optimum for mileage.
-Hint- if you are nervous about some speeder rear ending you ,...
I suggest pulling in front of a Mack truck ,and leave space between you and it,pull ahead about 50 yards then set the cruise to the same speed,or just a bit faster.
5/when possible don't use the Air conditioning.
It loads the engine up ,and will rob you of 4 mpg.
6/try to calculate total mileage using the Trip odometer,
remember to zero it out when on filling up.
I usually fill up at the 1/4 mark.
it gives a more consistant mileage calculation,as I find that the amount of gallons is more consistant .
7/try to fill up with "Diesel Premium"pump, when possible .BP,and Shell or citgo, have it at the truck stops.
or if ULSD is available.
The higher cetane will help performance as well as over all mileage on a long trip.I have getting on average 60 extra miles on a fill up of this stuff,and well worth the extra few cents per gallon.
8/Use cetane improvers diesel fuel additives.
I like power service or stanadyne performance formula,religiously.
All you need is a bottle to try out.generally I get 4 fillups out of a bottle.
This will help keep the injectors clean and help mileage.
-Cetane is Octane for Diesel fuel.
That is it
-remember speed is the enemy,if you speed your mileage will be inversly proprtional,plus it will keep the police off your butt.try leaving for work 10 minutes earlier and take your time to go to work.
Good luck...
Lightnin3...
He says the German techs who come to work on there equipment love to say,"works good enough for North American"
He told me one day that he got tired of hearing this and being left with crappy repairs so he told them, "I don't want it good enough for Euorpe, I want it good enough for Japan." HE said that the techs did not like that.
He also told me basically what you just said. Mercedes is just the perception of quality, and not neccessaly what you are buying. He asked me once, "how many 10 year old Mercedes do you see?". You see alot of 20 to 30 yearold mercedes, usually diesel. But not many early to mid 90's. He told me that they were really expensive, leather wrapped, GPS enabled, rattle traps. HE constantly complanined about fuel pumps from this plant and lines from that plant and he gas tanks not matching up.
He also told me that VW jetta built in mexico was crapola. 300 defects per unit. that is insane.
He said the cars from japan were always the easiest to deal with. Toyota and Honda have there stuff together. They have one gas tank design for ever car that have on the road. They use the same door handles for ever car on the road. When a company uses that kinda of stradegy there is much more uniformity, you can be much more picky about their one tank design, get better fit, function, and produce a car cheaper and faster than the other guys.
I know I went off on a bit of a tanget but, the US and Euorpean car companies need to get it together. Did you know that GM has a different gas tank for every one of its trucks. 1500, 2500/3500, suburban, avalanch, trailblazer, and canyon. they all have different gas tanks, they might be the same size, but this one has a nocth here and a bump there that that one doesn't have. How stupid is that.
A computer adjustable/tunable camshaft! for gas engines. This system already replaces the egr valve on a 2Liter 16V engine.
Have you heard about this approach?
Saab has always been a leader concerning the building of non polluting engines. On one of their french forums customers are complaining about diesel particulate filter clogging. It seems this filter needs a 'pyrolitic' cycle to keep it clean, and when you turn off the engine during bakeout the computer needs re-programming. The funny thing is that we are talking black smoke coming out of a convertible
I've often heard the same thing: "works good enough for North American".
It's irritating but:
- These people don't have a western culture and have lived in a different political environment. I also have to work with some of these characters!
- When you chose your vehicle, you chose it to satisfy yourself; these people often take the cheapest and discover the color, the make and the equipment when they get their hands on it.
- Most of our ancesters moved and emigrated to make a better living, these people will not.
- DC advertises in the manual 'Built with pride', these people smile thinking we are being cheated. (maybe??)
To stay away from this type of terrain I pull my 'Selec-trac' and forget about mileage (sorry Lightnin3); they can't.
I got the ULSD at a Chevron station in Germantown at the corner of Route 355 and Route 118, just south of the Milestone shopping center.
Thank you for your recent email concerning the discontinuation of the
Jeep Liberty CRD. At the present time, there have been no official
announcements pertaining to the end of the Liberty diesel line.
I would like to suggest that you visit www.Jeep.com for any future
announcements regarding availability of our diesel products.
Thank you for your support and interest as DaimlerChrysler continues to
make exciting improvements to our line of vehicles.
Thank you again for your email.
Sincerely,
Talitha
Senior Staff Representative
DaimlerChrysler Customer Assistance Center
MB E320 CDI: 3835
Jeep GC: 4865 (with the hemi. diesel should be about the same)
The Jeep is 1030 pounds heavier.
Drivetrain: the MB is a straight RWD system while the Jeep is an AWD system. AWD is always active even under ideal conditions and places a greater work load on the engine.
Europe think that one car should last for ever, when they buy cloth they use the same pants and shirt every day until they are out of style, then they buy some more. I date a french girl once and she had only one underware and she washes it everyday , I went and I bought her a dozen and she said to me that it was a waist of money, the same with houses and what so ever. European peaple are very different from the western world. North, Central and South America we all are very different from Europeans. And the story goes
gross weight's I'm sure will be different as there is more capacity in the Jeep.
the dropoff is still pretty dramatic from 27-37 mpg. not sure why they aren't thinking fuel efficiency.
The hot news is that DCX says no more VM Liberty Diesels! Everyone better find european suppliers for parts if they plan to keep their Jeep for over ten years. I know most people will not do that but it is something to think about. With only 11000 diesels sold I imagine that years from now parts from the DCX dealer will be nill.
There were over 11,300 Jeep Liberty CRDs sold in 2005 ALONE. With the 2006 models, there will be over 20,000 total CRDs sold.