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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    So there's the answer. Biodieseldude DOES NOT use Amsoil even though (s)he's familiar with the many positive anecdotal claims of Jeep afficianadoes. The same conclusion (opinion) as me !
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    siberia: None of the ways you say are like our CRD. We can be just moving along and the jerking starts out of the deep blue sky. To better describe it, the jerking reminds me of when a gas engine starts to run out of fuel. I have tried blowing the nose thing and it does nothing at all. This jerky happens when we are just going along at pretty much a consistent speed, not during acceleration or slowing down or going up a hill. There is no real pattern or speed. It happeed 4 times the other day on a day trip we we took of 250 miles. Then there are times the jerkiness won't happen for a day or so. I do think it happens mainly in 5th lockup, or 4th lock up. That is about all I can say. Perhaps bucking might be a term I would agree on, and perhaps that's is what I should call it. Say how many rpm's are you turning at 60 or 65 mph?

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    bullhead: As you know because we have been on the forum about the same amount of time, this Amsoil issue seems to never stop. What I don't understand is if Amsoil is so super wonderful, I would like anyone to name any new vehicle that comes from the factory with Amsoil in it. I haven't heard of any vehicle that states to use this product inthe owners manual either. However Mobile 1 comes in all the Vipers, and some other vehicles. The 5-40 Mobile 1 is a very good oil and now Mobile has come out with an extended Mobile 1 5-40, which seems to be even better. However I doubt anyone can drive a vehicle and tell what brand of oil is being used from one oil change to the next.
    Brand loyalty is what these oil companies depend on, and the male driver wants to be on top with the latest best brand according to the TV and car magizines. I only use Mobile ! because that's what DCX can't say I used the wrong kind of oil.
    We do have at least one Amsoil dealer on the forum, and Amsoil oil most likely does ok, and like any other sell at home products there is money to be made selling the product.

    Farout
  • Bullhead, Its your choice to discourage a product without presenting negative results from it. But, it just makes you look, well... like your venting and wasting people's time reading irrelevant information. If Amsoil didnt exist, there wouldnt be a choice to choose from.

    Personally I could care less about which product someone uses, the point of my reply was to provide advice to someone to do their own Research. Amsoil like many others may have a specific use, and obviously is potentially overated for the General consumer. Hello, some products work differently than others, and have specific uses. First Amsoil is not cheap, and is not available in every corner auto parts store, therefore from my experience is not a candidate for an automotive maker. Why dont you see any of the big companies making engines that run on Ammonia, probably because it is not a readily available fuel and distribution could cause potential issues, however it is a very viable alternative, potentially better than unleaded petroleum gasoline.

    Personally I think the choice you have been given is to choose a different product than what is being pushed by big business. Mobile 1 sells a hundred fold more than Amsoil yet the price is relatively close between the two, why is that? Who would try to prevent us from having those choices and charge high dollar for an easy to find Synthetic? Automotive companies are supported and participate in the SAE, and for those of you who are unfamiliar with this organization its called the Society of Automotive Engineers. This organization has been known for the last 35 years to Quash and hide technologies, such as an engine that runs on water, that might threaten its member's profits. Just like oils that have the potential to hold up longer than those made from Petroleum products. I have first hand knowledge of this organization since I was once a member of it, and my grandfather was the president for many years. The SAE provides kickbacks to the big 6 for each engine sold that requires a certain percentage of Petroleum products. The largest payoff in recent history was a sum of 18 billion dollars to get rid of the electric car program. The SAE paid to destroy those vehicles after ripping them from their owners without even asking them for permission. When the 2 largest competing companies joined, Exon and Mobile, the price has been increasing almost every day since the merge and the new company has recorded a record profit every single year since, after all they need to get all the profits they can before the EV1 or something like it comes back. Did you know that if you bought an EV1 they eventually came and took it back and in some cases without your permission right out of your driveway, in most cases while you were not around.

    Whether you choose Amsoil, or Mobile 1 isn't really the point, its having more than one choice that matters. Even if Amsoil isnt the greatest chemical solution on the planet, who knows it may be I don't know, but its an alternative choice, so please keep the choices coming, its our right to be able to choose, dont let them take that away. Thank you to those who take the time to share useful information.

    Peace, Mike
  • piper10piper10 Posts: 8
    Hi everyne.I am new to this forum but have been reading all I can the last couple of days.There is just so much info hear to read.I really could use your help if you dont mind.I have the chance to buy a 06 crd with 16k miles.I have looked at the carfax and it only shows when it was serviced and that all recalls were done.Nothing mentioned about any problems.All oil changes and other maint.related things seem to have been done when they should be.I test drove it and it drives fine.I need to give the guy an answer soon but I am so undecided.I really like it but after reading about some of the problems here I am afraid of it too.It has almost two years and 20k left on the warrenty.I can buy it for under $19k which I think is a great price.What should I do ????
    Thanks for you help
    Rick
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    piper10: DON"T DO IT!!!!! 19K for any CRD is too much! These CRD's amount to "test market" vehicles. Only 11,000 were made, and finding a good Tec. that knows what they are doing is a rare find! You should look closely at the cost of upkeep on this vehicle before you sign anything! If you can do the work yourself then that will be a big help to you. Consider an oil change at a Jeep dealer is $75 to $90, the water/fuel filter change is $120 to $150., Differential fluid changed in both runs $250 to $280. every 12,000 miles under warranty. This is no cheap Jeep to keep-up if you don't do the work. There have been many reflashes, at least three recalls, and some have had many problems. Some have dumped their CRD because of repeated problems on the same items.
    Some have had not a lick of problems and just have had the best ever experience. So there is a risk, and only you can make that choice. The value on these CRD's have gone done faster than I expected, and eventually parts will become an issue, as the engines are made in Italy.
    My experience has been frustrating. We have been to the dealer 23 times in 17 months for 33 repairs, and 4 items have been repaired 4 times, and still are not fixed. Of the 33 items only 12 were related to the engine or computers that control the whole works. DCX is attempting to buy back our CRD, which we would like, but time will tell.
    I would make sure that the differentials have been changed, the water/fuel filter has been changes and it has a recent oil change, and all recalls have been done. By the way only 2,300 2006 CRD's were made. The 2005 CRD had a 7 year 70,000 mile warranty, so with only 20,000 miles left on the warranty, I would say if you can't afford a 100,000 mile extended warranty don't even think about it. The EGR is more than $500. the egr flow valve is close to $400. the turbo with labor is more than $2,000. The PCM or the ECU or any of the other controllers are very expensive. Some have had the EGR replaced up to 5 times under warranty. This is not a vehicle for the faint of heart. I wish you well. I hope there are others that can also present some better info than me.

    Farout
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    to Quash and hide technologies, such as an engine that runs on water

    I'm sure your grandfather mentioned to you that those engines were once very popular but required huge amounts of coal to turn the water into steam and were rather bulky.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Tidester,
    The only 'food for the brain' available to engineers of the early 20th century was called 'Science Fiction'.
    Engineers developed the use of steam, distributed electricity, made it possible to build the bomb, sent people on the moon, finalized the Liberty and now you want them to become chemists :(
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    Hey, some of my best friends are engineers!

    However, as you well know (being an ME), the bomb, space travel and the Liberty were all based on established physical principles. Let's just say that to suggest the "water car" has been "quashed" at least requires a little more in the way of citing a physical basis. Even engineers need a reality check now and then. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    i have used amsoil for over twenty five years and love it i think most oils today are pretty good but remember if it was not for amsoil we would still be changing oil every one thousand miles
  • tjm3472tjm3472 Posts: 11
    Almost 30K and no problems with our 06 CRD. Find a good diesel mechanic for upkeep and save the warranty repairs for the dealer. An extended warranty is a good idea and you can get a 7/70 for under a thousand dollars. I got a 6/70 from a dealer for 800 dollars by bringing some online warranty offers with me. I live in West Michigan (lots of lake effect snow)pull a trailer and can't think of another vehicle I'd rather have but there are lemons with every make and model as is evident by this forum. Good luck
    tjm
  • arvmanarvman Posts: 95
    Don't know if you all have seen,but the new GC is now available with the mercedes diesel,3.0L.Wonder how many they will make?My beast goes in for the torque mod 19 march so we'll see.Pulled a full trailer of wood last weekend and the only thing that slowed the truck was the trailer speed wobble above 60 mph.It works great so I'm nervous about the recall.I'm gonna load it up again post recall and see.Did I hear they won't replace the tranny fluid when doing the work?Hope I heard wrong.I'm already sourcing parts from local diesel shops and was surprised to find motori dealer here,mostly marine stuff but Im sure they can order anyhting,cheers all....
  • Rick,
    We ordered and picked up our 2006 Liberty CRD Limited in July 2006. We have 18K miles now, and no problems other than the original battery died (which they replaced) and three flat tires. The right rear tire (I rotate the tires every 5K miles) has picked up metal objects three times. The original tires must have magnets in them. I don't have this problem with the other two vehicles I have driving over the same roads, so I feel these tires are sub-standard. But I want to wear them out before I replace them. I really like the tire pressure monitoring system. I can see the tire going flat before it actually does, and it gives me a warning if I don't notice it. My wife loves our Liberty, since it maneuvers so well, and gets good fuel mileage to boot. I think she would like the smoothness and quietness of a gas liberty better, but it doesn't get the fuel mileage the CRD does. I really think that most of the Liberty CRDs are fine, but like any other type of vehicle, there are those that have problems. You have to make that decision. Check the history of the CRD you are considering and buy the Chrysler 100K extended warranty. I perform all the scheduled maintenance myself, so it costs a little for the parts and oil, and just a little time. Changing both differential fluids cost me under $30.00, and was not too hard to do. I had to remove the skid plate under the front differential, which was easy and only four bolts. The rear differential was even easier. I change the engine oil and filter every 5K miles, and use Rotella-T synthetic 5w-40 and Fram oil filter from Wal-Mart, which also cost me under $30. These are just two examples. Bottom line for us is, we are happy with our CRD to this point.

    Take care,
    SemperFi06
  • Farout,
    I am really sorry that you have had such problems with your Liberty CRD. You have been such a help and breath of fresh air to me on this forum. You have kept such a positive attitude and tried to work through all the issues with your vehicle. If Daimler-Chrysler does not properly take care of you financially by either properly fixing your vehicle and giving you a credit or monetary incentive for your troubles, or a very generous buy-back of your Liberty CRD, then I feel they are really "missing the mark." You are the type of customer that a good auto maker should strive to keep. They should be bending over backwards to keep you satisfied. From all your post, I feel you have properly maintained your vehicle (I am a school and field trained auto mechanic and I have enjoyed working on vehicles from a child), so they should not try to cut your buy-back offer because you didn't change the differential fluids on schedule B, which is overly stringent from my experience. Sounds like one of their tools they are trying to use to keep from paying for repair work or to get the price down when you trade, etc. WRONG WAY TO DO BUSINESS. Did I change mine, yes, but I probably can do it much easier than many others can. And my 06 Liberty has standard differentials that don't require an additive like possibly your 05 Liberty does (according to which rear differential you have). If you are not treated fairly, please let me know. It will really influence any future decision to buy a Chrysler product when looking to buy a new vehicle again...and I have bought six new Chrysler products in the past. I really am hoping that the U.S. automotive industry will see the light and offer better products, with better service, and at better prices than all foreign auto manufacturers. So much for the U.S. is riding on this...I apologize to everyone for getting on my "soap box." I hope you can keep your Liberty CRD on good terms and stay in the forum.
    Take care,
    SemperFi06
  • I'm sure your grandfather mentioned to you that those engines were once very popular but required huge amounts of coal to turn the water into steam and were rather bulky.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper


    Cute and moderately funny, but no, not the steam engine. For those of you who have no clue about chemistry and how it all works, here are the details of process that was created by a scientist creates energy by separating one of the Hydrogens from a water molecule. A specific electric current and mixture of free radicals in a cylinder and you have a situation where a sudden break of one of the hydrogens breaking/snaping off from H20 will generate about 16 joules of energy, doesnt sound like much, and its about 1 and 1 millionth of the energy generated by the atom strip (or neucleur reaction), but its plenty enough to throw the cylinder back the other direction. As you can imagine there would be absolutely no by products, at least non that we have bee able to calculate.

    The only reason some of you may have actually heard of this engine technology was due to a compagn by Steven Segal kicked off by a 5 minute speach at the end of a late 1980s movie about burning Oil wells. He was the engineer who had to show up and put out the oil fire.

    Anyway, it is real technology, and there are hundreds of other inventions that will eventually render petroleum useless. But hey don't take my word for it. Do your own research.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    A specific electric current ...

    I.e., you must supply energy to produce the separation. Unfortunately, you cannot get more energy out from recombination than you put in.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • Gasoline is "C8H18", and when you send an electric pulse through it the molecule breaks apart creating energy, which pushes the little cylinder back the other direction, which turns the alternator which provides magic Electricity to send another pulse into the next batch of "C8H18"... Still confused?? :surprise:

    Water (H20) also has an energy factor holding it together (sometimes referred to as Electron potential) and depending on how to break it apart you get a measurable amount of energy that you can harness in various different ways. ;)

    I digress.... Thanks for the basic chemistry relapse.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Getting more energy than what you put in, from a process, is a reality today. The quality factor of heat pumps is close to 4 meaning that when you pay for 1 unit of work (or heat) you get 4 in return.
    The common problem to the new technologies is storing the energy produced in a 'parasitic' way such as by braking going downhill when the accumulators are already fully charged.

    Several hybrid vehicles are under test and it seems they cannot beat the smaller diesels on the overall mileage aspect. For example, the Renault Clio common rail will give you 60 mpg (3.9 L/ 100 KM),
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Are you referring to the "Pantone" engine?
  • piper10piper10 Posts: 8
    Thank you for the reply farout.This really gives me alot to think about.I can do most of the work myself unless its a bigger problem than normal upkeep.I just cant take the chance on big repair bills after the warrenty runs out.I am still doing some checking. I really had my heart set on this crd but it looks like I probably will let this one pass and get a gasser.Thank you for your help.
  • piper10piper10 Posts: 8
    tim3472 and semperfi06, I just now read your replies to my qwestion.You have had good luck with your crd so now I am thinking again.I will check to see about the extended warrenty.I would feel better.I know the trade in value isnt high on these but then again they never want to give anything on any thing you want to trade in.The car lots sure want plenty for what they are selling.I just saw one at a dealer lot for 26k for an 06.It was a sport so I was suprised.That dont say it will sell for that but who knows.Thats one reason I thought the price for the one I am looking at wasnt to bad.I am thinking hard on this so it will take a little while to decide.Hope it is still there if I decode to go for it.
    Thanks
    Rick
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    synlubes: You should when defending Amsoil make it clear you are a Amsoil dealer. I have nothing againgt the oil, it's just there is only so much that oil can do. No matter how perfect the blend or brand there is a limit to how an oil can be. The oil of 25 years ago is not the same we have today. Heck, 37 years ago I was buying Havoline 30w oil for 33 cents a can, and went 3,000 miles on an oil change on my 1969 Buick station wagon. It was good oil back then. But some were even going for the Franz toilet paper filters too, that didn't make them good, just all the hipe, and cheap toilet paper cost lured many into this trap.

    Farout
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    Piper10,

    Just out of curiosity, is the one you are looking at a Sport or Limited? And what part of the country are you in? 19k sounds like a very low price....I'm just wondering if the resale of our vehicles has fallen that quickly, or if you just found a good deal from somebody needing to sell off their vehicle (was it a dealership or individual?). My experience with my 06 has been flawless so far (18k miles), though the experiences others have expressed on this forum do concern me. I did not buy an extended warranty, and plan to sell mine next year when I get close to 36k miles. I'm sure repairs are inevitable, but as hard as it's been for people to get warranty repairs done correctly, I can only imagine what they will charge me if I'm paying out of pocket. I love my jeep and it is a blast to drive, but the risk of owning it out of warranty overrides the fun I've had driving it.

    I look forward to hearing more about the one you are looking at buying.
    Twocycle2
  • piper10piper10 Posts: 8
    Twocycle2
    It is an individual who has it and it is the sport model.I dont think your value has dropped.I think this is just a good price.I have found one at a car lot that was gone when I called.It was a 05 and they wanted around 21k.Dont know what it went for.Another I found at a dealer is a 06 and they want 26k.tjm3472 said he found a good extended warranty for under a $1000.I have been looking into that.If you read this tjm can you tell me where you were able to find this.Every where I check is alot more than that.I would feel alot better not having to worry about big out of pocket expenses but on the other hand I sure dont want to spend a fortune on a warranty.Oh yea,I am in Ohio.
    Rick
  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    Yeah. I do love messing with people who promote their livelihoods here!
  • piper10piper10 Posts: 8
    One of my concerns is about the egr problems.I have been making some calls and I am told that the warranty is 3yr/36000 but I am also told the emissions warranty is 7yr/80000.I am trying to get answers to if the egr and pcm are covered under this. so far I havent found out much.The Jeep service dept is going to get back with me.If it does this would really help.Has anyone checked into this?I would be less afraid to buy without an extended warranty if it is covered anyway.
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    i agree but the the oil was not as good then but why by oil from companys that have lied to us for twenty five years saying to change it every three thousand miles when there same oil in germany has been recommended for ten thousand miles for over ten years i dont care who makes the product even if it is a good product if the companys lies to me i wont buy it are oil companys in this country have gotten greedy just ask anybody about enron
  • kellog13kellog13 Posts: 12
    The value has dropped a great deal. Mine is an 06 CRD LTD with 17,000 km loaded, sat, bluetooth, tow and full dress with no dents or scratches, mint. It"s 10.5 months old, paid 38,000 and was offered 22,000 cdn for it from the dealer where I bought it. This whole CRD experience has been a big kick in the teeth. I will get out of this one way or another and either get a used TDI passat wagon or a ML320CDI(I can't afford it really). I have an 05 TDI passat for the wife and they sell used for what I paid for it 2 years ago new at the dealer. What's with American vehicles being worthless after a year= cheap car and poor engineering, parts replaced in 10.5 months:
    ball joints
    turbo charger
    egr
    battery
    rear rotors and pads
    alternator
    This is a big fat joke. :lemon:
  • piper10, just wanted ot let you know that I have an 05 limited, with everything on it including GPS, except the graphical display of the tire pressure, I only get low pressure warnings. Anyway, I have 60,000 miles on mine. Never had any problem with it and after a few mods I am now getting 34.5-35 mpg highway consistently. I have an extended warranty, but now I wish I hadnt paid for it. maybe I am the luck one, and I do have a check engine light that has been on for 20k miles, but doesnt bother me, as long as the EGR looks good and I get good milease and have plenty of power. I have done all the maintenance specified on shecdule A, except of course to replace the air filter, I have a true flow filter with an 4" opening in my airbox to prevent flow issues with the True Flow, this filter is permanent and I wash it regularly.

    I take it off road, fly over speed bumps at 45 or 50 and pull a 30 foot Four Winds/Dutchmen Camping Trailer that weights a lot, and this diesel is a tank, it just keeps on ticking, never compains, and pulls better than anything else I could buy that gets 35 mpg highway.

    The coolest part of a diesel engine is they last a REALLY long time, and require very little maintenance. I have to change the oil on my Toyota Minivan every 3,000 or I get double metal shavings in the used oil. Ther have been times I streched my CRD oil change to 12k and still no major increase in metal shavings. I dont normally risk past 10k miles on a diesel, but it can take the punishment. The EGR issues I believe can be attributed to cleaning issues, consider using an Elephant Hose from your Crant Case Vent (holler if you interested in what this is) or possibly just remove the EGR all together with a Greasel Race Downpipe like I did on my 01 Jetta TDI, I would guess one will be out soon for the Liberty CRD. You dont need an EGR unless your worried about emissions, I try to keep my biodiesel tank full, but sometimes I will go a couple of tanks of diesel because it just too cold here in Winter to collect from restraunt waste tanks. If you take out your EGR
    you may fail an emissions test unless you are running on a really good biodiesel or pure vegetable oil.

    Anyway, I totally love this beast, and if something breaks I would like to try and fix it myself, its not that tough, plenty of resources out there, for example on LostKJs.com on the CRD forum, thousands of intelligent diesel techs who drive a CRD that talk on that forum.

    Thanks for reading, Mike
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Biodieseldude, since you have a good rig there is one thing you could publish on this forum:
    - The revision number(s) of your ECU software.

    Potential CRD buyers who read this forum can easily access this information and check before buying the truck that it uses a reliable version of software :shades:

    Have you noticed any trace of polymerization of your fuel?
  • tjm3472tjm3472 Posts: 11
    The only service contract quote I can remember from the web was from chryslerservicecontracts.com. I took theirs and another to my local dealer and he beat the best of them by 50 dollars. I did get mine when I only had 3000 miles and I think the prices start getting higher after 12000 miles.
    tjm
  • bullheadbullhead Posts: 125
    You may have better sense about the F37 Recall than I do, arvman. Just keep in mind: can Daimler-Chrysler mandate a "fix" that diminishes the torque when fixes that wouldn't do that were an (albeit more expensive) option for them to prescribe ? Without a remedy to the consumer, I'm thinking not. I will hold out for this inequity to be resolved by them (Hence, Bullhead).
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    I don't put much faith in Amsoil since the same company puts out stuff like A.J.'s Roborant Energy, which I also don't put much faith in.

    But there's lots more in the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 and Synthetic motor oil discussions - we can get back to the Liberty Diesel in here any time now. ;)
  • butchmanbutchman Posts: 24
    Biodieseldude, I am impressed with your mileage. Can you tell me some of the easest and most effective mods you made to bring your mileage up like that? Thanks!
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    sorry you feel that way about synthetic oil only time will tell but i will still run it in my crd and all my relation in germany would not run anything else but synthetic i have a lubrication engenering degree and i can tell you synthetic is here to stay like it or not sorry we disagree on synthetic oil but you have a nice day
  • piper10piper10 Posts: 8
    biodieseldude
    Thanks for the reply.When you can let me know what the elephant hose is and how to use it.I am not worried about emissions,we arent tested in my part of the state so far.I was just afraid it wouldnt run right with it not working.Thats what I like about the diesel is how long it lasts.Glad to hear that your crd is runnung so well.
  • mdamickmdamick Posts: 277
    The PCM is but the EGR and the EGR Flow Control Valve are not covered after the 3/36000.

    What I have done is disconnect the EGR, put in a relay connected to a potentiometer across the IAT temp sensor. The computer thinks the EGR is there so no MIL and without EGR off the line the thing runs like it should have from day 1.

    I currently have 67000+ miles on mine. The only issue I have at the moment is the transmission programming does not fully lock the TC until 62 mph. When going uphill @ 53 the TC will slip and chatter if I give it too much fuel.
  • mdamickmdamick Posts: 277
    It looks neat but I don't see any way to generate enough hydrogen fast enough to run a car.
    I also think that straight DC would produce H faster than any type of pulsed voltage.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Piper10.I can state positively the PCM and the EGR are NOT covered under Fed Emissions.

    Farout
  • piper10piper10 Posts: 8
    Thanks guys for letting me know that.Looks like that plan wont work.Oh well it was an idea.I was checking ebay and there are a few crds listed there.I am suprised because there arent that many out there.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    biodieseldude: Please don't tell me that you believe that you qualify as a Schedule A? There is NO ONE who can say they are a shhedule A in the Unitsed States> Read the requirements very carefully. Do you have ANY thematures below 32F or higher than 90F. Do you stop and go with your CRD? Do you ever go 10 miles or less? Do you drive for extended periode? ( hat deffination is so vague it means whatever DCX wants it to be) The check engine light on for 20K alone kills your warranty.
    You sound like an intellegent man, and surely you can see unless you have a Jeep dealer willing to falsify some records for you, incase of and engine problem, there will be a hot time on the south pole while you try to get warranty work done.
    I can tell you first habd that without proof you have kept up with scheduel B there is a rough road to get any engine work warrantied.
    I am not intending to argue with you only saying it's very hard to get these distric reps to bend. I sure hope you have the very best CRD sold in the USA, as I can see you have a lot of fun with yours.

    Farout
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    Thanks for the reply.

    Actually, it would be better to use the "reply" link when replying to another message rather than starting a new "thread" and typing in a new title. It's easier for members to follow that way.

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    I don't see any way to generate enough hydrogen fast enough to run a car.

    Good point! However ...

    I keep resisting the temptation to get into the fray but people need to understand that you just cannot break even in splitting up water molecules and trying to get useful work out of burning the hydrogen. It takes energy to split up those molecules, which you cannot do with 100% efficiency, and you cannot get 100% efficiency when converting the energy from combustion to useful work.

    Even if you could do both with 100% efficiency, you would have to "invest" exactly the same amount of energy as you would extract.

    Okay, I'm stepping down from my soapbox. :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    tidester: I am not educated in energy to the level you and some others. I have been under the assumption as you stated that some thing must start an action or movement to make even a perpetual motion going. Even if this was possible would there not be some loss in energy, even it were hardly un-measureble, eventually slowing down to the point you could measure it?
    Even our sun does have a time of expiration so I have heard. However I doubt any of us will see that happen. I enjoy a good soap box talk on occasion.

    Farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Hey, I know of at least 2 in my area alone. One is a Limited and it has 14,000 miles and they want $18,900. and will drop from there depending if you have a trade. This dealer will not carry but one CRD on the lot at a time, because of the time it takes to sell it.

    Farout
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Farout, the only thing that can start without much energy and keep going forever is RUMOR
    Just check world news :P
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Farout,
    Your beating your head against the wall. Contact your State Attorney General's Office and a Good lemon law lawyer. You need to talk to people that know the law and are not biased against you. Have you talked to a lawyer who will be able to represent your interests? If not your making a costly mistake.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    Farout,

    People still try to get patents for "perpetual motion machines" but, as cleverly as they may be, they simply cannot get around the laws of thermodynamics!

    Caribou1 said:

    the only thing that can start without much energy and keep going forever is RUMOR

    I'll add another one - Conspiracy Theories! :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    goodcrd: Today the DCX District Called and gave the message to the Service manager they are going to definatly buy back our Green Beast. There will be a mileage charge, that we will talk next week about what per mile will be charged. The dealer has asked that the charge be fair ,as we extend to buy another Jeep product. Once we agree to a mileage charge the District Rep. will get final approval. Best time estimate is 14 days at the earliest and 21 at the most.
    The Service manager told the District Rep he never wanted to work on the Green Beast ever again! They had it in the shop all day yesterday and could not fix the fuel gage, the speed control, or the shuddering. They think it all is computer connected, and Star can't help fix it. They too see how the power has been changed by F37, but no answers as how to fix anything. The Tec that worked on it said he hates to work on something he can't fix. They admit this is a dead end street. I am not sure where they take these vehicles that are buy backs, maybe the auction and sell it with no warranty?
    We did get legal advice. There is a big charge to hire a attorney, most base the charge on time involved to get it settled. We do have the paper work to back up our displeasure with this Green Beast. The big issue for most people is lack of tangible proof. The documents to prove the repairs and attempts at repair are the only thing that counts. We have all these things, plus the Service manager who has reached his end of the rope.

    Farout
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