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Jeep Liberty Diesel

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Comments

  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    DCX is recalling 500,000 vehicles some Liberty's are included. This was on the evening PBS news. As to what years or reason was not tottaly clear, but locks were mentioned.
    This is not good news for a company that's up FOR SALE.

    Farout
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    The affected years are 2004 to 2006. It seems there have been fires in some of those vehicles resulting from electrical overloading in the driver's side instrument panel. Detroit News

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • budsjpbudsjp Posts: 25
    I picked up the following from an AP article on MSNBC - a little different than the Detroit News:

    The automaker was also recalling 149,605 Jeep Liberty SUVs from the 2006-2007 model years to fix the heating-ventilation-air conditioning blower motor. Chrysler had received a dozen reports of fires from Liberty owners.
  • budsjpbudsjp Posts: 25
    Further on in the article referenced, the following appears (Gates is a Chrysler spokesman):

    In the Liberty recall, Gates said the blower motors could fail if the air conditioning is being used on high during hot weather.

    Drivers who smell an odor such as overheated plastic should keep their blower motor below the highest setting until they bring their vehicle in for service, Chrysler said. Liberty owners are expected to receive notices about the recall in May.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    budsjp: Just in time for summer! I wonder why the heater with the blower motor on high would not be a concern for fire, or even the defrost position as the AC is on then too?

    Farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Yesterday the weather was reasonable enough for me to do some maintenance on the CRD. I pulled the boost pressure sensor. It had some crud on it but not too much. I gave it a good cleaning and put it back in. Next I pulled the hose between the aftercooler and the intake manifold. There was no accumulated oil in the hose. All I found was a thin sticky film of oil which I cleaned out. I next pulled the hose between the turbo and the aftercooler. No accumulated oil, and again just the thin sticky film of oil. Cleaned that out and reassembled. Drove the CRD a little later and it ran like a banshee. Very quick throttle response and improved pulling power in top gear were noted.

    I want to make a comment about Amsoil lubricants. I am not an Amsoil dealer but have used their products for years successfully. I feel you get what you pay for when you buy their products and there ares so few things today for which I can say that. Their oils have very low vaporization rates, thus the minimal goo/crud in the intake system and else where in the engine. Yes, you pay more for Amsoil, but you get what you pay for.
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Well, your pain is almost over. I find the comment of the Service Manager about not wanting to see your CRD again most revealing. Frankly, I feel that your CRD can be fixed with the use of competent technicians and a real dealership that cares. I think the tech at that dealership is a loser. Anything is fixable, it just takes an extra five or ten minutes to do it. At the dealership I use, they have had some nightmare cars, but they have gotten them fixed and only rarely have they ever had a buy back in their 30+ years of existence.

    What will DCX do with your CRD, probably look at it, analyze it, probably fix it and sell it at auction. I am only guessing here.
  • Sorry for the delayed response I have been up in the mountains. One thing I did was purchase the module that has a fuel economy mode and I use that frequently, provides 1-2 mpg additional. The other thing i did was purchase a full height bug shield to push the wind up to the top of the windshield which seemed to help a lot, especially noticable when my wipers seems to stick to the windshield better now when going 70+. Also since my tires have a 50psi rating I put the rear at 50 and the front at 35 this also seems to help angle the wind up and over the windshield maybe 1mpg extra. I also use "Diesel Power" from auto parts store and "PS Service" from Walmart 2 types one on each, one with Cetane boost and the other fuel injector cleaner another 1mpg extra I put this in almost every tank. One last thing I use the cruise alot and try to find a large truck or vehicle (Ford Expedition or Hummer works the best they are great wind blockers) to stay behind. Even 5 or 6 car lengths or 3-5 seconds works perfectly. Staying behind one of these increases mileage by another 1 or 2 mpg.

    Those things combined this last trip I got 35.8mpg over 2 and a half tanks this week going up into the moutains with a ski rack, 3 sets of skis and one snow board on top, at times I would drop down to 27 going up step 6% inclines with the cruise set at 75, then back down I frequently push into neutral which dramatically increases mileage on the way down. The coolest thing about this engine is that when going up step inclines all the gas engines slow down 3-5 mph with the curise set and I dont lose but maybe .5 mph.

    When I take a trip to Kansas City, flat ground I can get closer to 38 as long as I can find a good wind blocker going 80, otherwise I stay around 33-34mpg on the way there, coming back to Colorado is into the wind which is crossways from the plains of Kansas and uphill all the way where I drop down to 26-28mpg for the trip back.

    If I do any in town driving more than 100 miles on that tank my mileage drops down to 25 or 26 for that tank.

    Hope that helps.
  • The elephant hose only prevents extra sludge oil coming out of the crankcase and going into the intake. The top of the engine there is a round piece with a hose attached that goes back into the air intake. This hose carries unusaed air back into the system lowering emissions. The elephant mod takes that hose and Ts off to a filter that attempts to take that oil out of the air before it sends thta crankcase vent back into the intake. What some do is install a T and one side of the T just hangs down the side of the motor draining off that oil and the other side of the T back into the original location after the air filter.

    I would search LostKJs.com under the CRD Liberty forum for elephant hose to get pictures and more info. Otherwise when I get time I will post some pix up on this forum.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    biodieseldude: One thing that would be worth your try would be to bring your front tire pressure up to atleast 40 psi. The increase should help because you are not pushing against a softer tire. Worth atry anyway.
    Have you had the F37 done? Have you tried testing your mpg without the additives? With the better diesel you might get some better. Do you use Bio fuel?

    farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Does anyone keep the Black plastic engine cover off? Does this cover have any use, other than maybe a sound damper? Well maybe it prevents the oil that gets spilled over, from getting on the top of the engine.


    farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    winter2: How often do you change your oil? What brand of oil filter do you use? Having watched the tecs try to "fix" enough things, the inter cooler hose had only a slight slippery film, and the EGR control valve was just very lightly a brown coating on the edges of the flaper valve. There was no sludge build up, and things looks very clean. Now if there was a tec who really knew what he was doing that would have been nice.
    We have come to the conclusion that we will pay up to a certian amount per mile and no more, in the buy back. If we can't agree, it goes back into the shop until things are fixed. We are to find out this week what DCX will offer.
    We do have a plan B, but that is a last ditch effort and that would be an additional cost for us up front.
    What we expect is Tottaly reasonable, and we do have the support of the General Manager of the dealership, and the Service manager, which should work in our favor.

    Farout
  • I have an 18gallon spare tank in the rear that holds used veggie oil, when the motor heats up I can switch to that tank if I have anything in it to use. Otherwise I havent used it much lately because it has been just too cold to go collect used oil. No recalls have been done yet. All schedule A stuff I do myself. I was recently asking the dealer almost a month ago to put me on the list for the front ball joint because they have a new setup that looks better than the original recall, others who have had the original have tried to get the new one done, but the dealer refuses. I have no idea what the difference is. I just wanted to get some use out of my torque converter and ball joint before I have them put the new one on. Was planning on doing the 2.5" lift the same day I get scheduled, then have them put the ball joint on because I think they may have to do an alignment after the ball joint recall, same with a lift, so I might try to make them pay for the alignment if I can. With the lift its easier to do the ball join anyway, more room to work.

    I have only used the aditives once I got the module, so I really dont know the difference, and I always treat the fuel before a long trip. I have one coming up next weekend, I will go without treatment the first leg and check mileage. I think it will be around 1mpg less, will let you know.
  • I do all of the maintenance work myself. Except for one incident where I took it to Walmart to get the oil changed since they had a special $29 for the oil change and fluid top off, they ended up striping my Oil drain plug!! had to tow it back home on their dime and repaired it myself sending them the bill, which they finally paid, this is where I installed the universal rubber plug wing nut, and then the oversized Fumoto Oil drain that has a drain valve so that you never have to take it off again, just turn the knob and stick the hose into your drain pan, I have the same thing on both differencials. Btw, there is no way they can know how long the CIL has been on, not to mention I have 60k miles on mine and no warranty left anyway, extended warranty (3rd party company) doesnt matter, not restrictions there and they are bumper to bumper (non wear and tear only) with a $100 deductible. Sure we have 7 years or 70k miles left, but that is Drive train only, transmission, differencial, etc.

    One other thing you may need to know, since their policy is so fague they have no way of actually enforcing you out of warranty on any repair since we can do oil changes on our own and dont have to prove by paperwork. 1 year ago a Toyota owner took their car in with a blown engine, they had 25k miles total and the dealer refused to fix the engine saying they had no records of changing the oil and they were out of warranty. So the owner grabbed an attorney on contingent and won, because of that all Toyota owners who had that engine (like me was awarded a new engine) my Toyota Sienna received a Brand spankin new engine at 55k miles because of some guy in Iowa who didnt change his oil.

    Sure they will try to bully you into believeing you need to make these repairs. I just try to be responsible for my equipment, for example every other oil change I take my used oil in for analysis and check for metal particulates and oil breakdown. This tells me how often I need to change my oil, with my driving habits and what type of oil I need to use. For example If I go an extra 1k miles over my plan you can see a bigger percentage in the amount of metal shavings since its no longer protecting the metal as it once did. Metal shavings are normal, but you have to find the right spot for your driving habits. I typically change my oil right at 12k miles, not because it follows the schedule, but because its what works with my oil usage. On that schedule I use 0w40 mobile one fully synthetic with an engine additive called MT-10, why not Amsoil, because its easier to drive 1 mile down the street and grab several quarts Mobile one and I have no data that suggests I should use anything different.

    Would I suggest doing things against the dealer or manual, Hell No, just do your best to maintain it. In your case I would dump that piece of junk in a heart beat and make them get you another one that doesnt have so many problems.

    Thanks for listening, Mike
  • The black plastic cover only really serves to lower the volume of diesel noise. I once thought it might help prevent hot air from going over to the air intake and I tried taking it off to see if it made a difference in the air temp and it wasn't noticeable. Maybe if the cover came down the side of the engine it could block more heat from going over to the air intake. I think I am more susceptible because I have increased the size of my air intake to 4 inches instead of 2.5"
  • The manual says 33psi in all fours, and I tried 40 front 50 rear with only little difference, I think I get the best results from 35psi front and 50 rear, but that could also depend on the wind, it might hurt my mileage to have the rear almost .5" higher than normal in a crosswind.

    btw, I highly recommend bumping the PSI in your tires closer to max, entrance ramps and tight turns for me are now solid no more sloppy turning for me. Feels allot safer.
  • Fomoto oil Drain Vavle:
    http://lubricationspecialist.com/front/shop.aspx?catid=3&parentid=0
    4" Air box intake Mod:
    http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/airboxmod.htm
    WHY EGRs get dirty so fast:
    http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/crdintake.htm
    Elephant Hose MOD:
    http://liberty.eurekaboy.com/elephanthosemod.jpg
    More Pictures here http://www.one-ring.net/jeep/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=ProVent-instal- - l

    Make your CRD a Hybrid using Hydrogen to increase your mileage and power bumps your mileage from 30 to 45mpg:
    http://hydranox5000.com/
    http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/?gclid=CO3RmKKA7ooCFQlaPgodYBOMpQ/

    URL for the New Jeep Trailhawk that may hit be for sale mid to late 2008:
    My buddy went to this car show and was told this vehicle will likely in some form be available for sale in 2008, minus the IPOD fancy stuff. Here are the details he got off the display board at the show:
    Jeep Trailhawk 3.0 liter v6 Mercedes Bluetec Diesel
    estimated 35mpg city and up to 45 highway, 190 horse power 370 ft pounds torque and 7000# towing.
    http://videos.howstuffworks.com/2007-naias-jeep-trailhawk-video.htm
  • mdamickmdamick Posts: 277
    The PCM keeps track of the MIL on time by miles, I can pick up that info with my code reader.

    If it is a concern, have the MIL reset and it will start all over again.
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    I called today to schedule getting my recalls done (I haven't had any of them done yet) and the tech asked me if I was supposed to have the transmission one done. Mine is not on the list, and the tech said that he highly recommends that people hold off on getting that recall done. He said his dealership had only done one F37 so far, and it was a complete disaster. As long as it is running properly, he recommends waiting to do F37 until DCX gets it figured out.

    I'm concerned about getting the other recalls done too, as my CRD is running fine, but DCX sent me another letter "reminding" me and stating that failure to do so would be considered a failure to perform proper maintenance and could void that part of the warranty. Unreal! They look for any way possible not to have to pay for what they screwed up in the first place. It's kind of sad, too....DCX makes a few vehicles that I really like, but I'm scared to buy another one after reading everyone's posts on this forum.

    Twocycle2
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    The topic has come up again on this forum about which oils are better, which leave less residue, which prevents problems, etc. Let me offer this....a well designed engine will run fine on any brand oil as long as the proper viscosity is used and it is changed at the proper intervals. Look at the diesel pickups from the big 3....most people use Rotella (regular...not even synthetic) and have no problems whatsoever. I had a Chevy Duramax, used Rotella and a Fram filter from Walmart, and never had a bit of trouble. No cleaning out intercoolers or hoses, no cleaning boost sensors, nothing. The fact that our engines are so "sensitive" says something about their design. I knew somebody in the early 80's that had a diesel cadillac and never had any problems with it, only because he installed his own secondary oil filters and fuel filters, and did his own "maintenance" to the injector pump....in other words, he self-engineered all of GM's shortcomings and made his vehicle reliable. We shouldn't have to install elephant hoses and provents and add all kinds of fuel additives just to prevent our vehicles from breaking down. I don't mean to sound bitter, as I still love my CRD, but I have less than a year left before my warranty runs out, and I am faced with paying for repairs out of pocket, or rolling a lot of negative equity into a new vehicle....neither of which did I expect on a vehicle that cost nearly $30k!!!

    Twocycle2
  • mngolfermngolfer Posts: 18
    Just had the F37 recall completed on our 2005 CRD and no problems with the update. The Torque Converter failed at 16,000 miles and was replaced under warranty prior to the F37 recall being issued. CRD now has 24000 miles. Have not noticed any reduction in performance. We bought our used and it had less than 12000 miles at the time of purchase. We do sometimes have wind noise around the doors, which seems to be a common complaint.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Twocycle2,
    The GM diesels used in the 80's had primitive and robust features compared to the engine of the CRD.
    I had the chance to see our engine completely disassembled on a workbench: it's cute and meticulously assembled, just like a motorcycle engine; you can't stick a finger in there because of the density of moving parts.
  • synlubessynlubes Posts: 184
    my mechanic says the engine is bullet proof he just got back from school on it
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Synlubes, I agree with you. The engine I saw 3 years ago had a different oil distribution from the pump up to the camshafts. There is a fix called E11 to cover this(Europe only).

    The original EU models had two flexible oil hoses running along the side of the engine. After a few hours of beating, the feed hose (the one that has pressure inside) could slip out of it's crimped threaded fitting, making oil pressure drop immediately.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    Caribou1: DCX has made an offer to solve our problems with the "Green Beast". After 25 times to the dealers for repairs, and some items have been repaired 4 times. The dealer said he never wanted to see this Liberty in his shop again. So this should be all done in two weeks. The District Rep. was saying he was sorry we have had so much inconvience., and was very respectful. The District Rep gave even more reason to stay with Chrysler vehicles. We agreed to where to have all the trades and paper work done. There was no problems and we are very pleased. Here is the add part, the Customer care person that suggested our problems were way to much, is responsible for this to have happened. I never even suggested filing a "Lemon Law" complaint, or that I might be considered it. My wife and I are on cloud nine with the results.
    I would encourage anyone with repeated problems to keep calling the 1-800-992-1997 Customer Care people. The system does work!
    Now we have to make our choice of a vehicle. I like the Jeep Patriot 4x4, my wife likes the Jeep Compass 4x4. The both have the same interior it's just the body thats the main difference. We have less than two weeks to tell them which.

    Farout
  • jdsamdogjdsamdog Posts: 1
    Thank you for the # I am in the process of my CRD getting fixed. It has been in the shop 4 times in the last 2 months for the same issue and no one has a clue what is wrong. It will be interesting to see what comes about on resolution of my issue.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Farout, do you really want to change for a Compass? This is a totally different vehicle using the chassis of a Mitsubishi Outlander and a smaller engine (said on TV last night). If you are pleased with the Customer care of Chrysler vehicles, are you not willing to change your truck for a newer one?
    Do you know the cost of maintenance for the Compass or the Patriot? You will probably be surprised.

    Geneva auto-show announcement:
    Peugeot 4007 and Citroen C-Crosser also use the Mitsubishi chassis with their 2.2L common rail that delivers the same torque ours does. So this chassis should be made to meet european quality standards. Base price 30,000 Euros. Good intro for the Compass :shades:
  • tbbttbbt Posts: 6
    Originally posted on LOST KJS forum. Reposted here as a FYI:

    I took the CRD to a local mechanic to do it's 30k mile service. The mechanic discovered that the heater connector was spewing fuel and that the tip of the connector had been burnt. He stopped work and gave me a call because it's a warranty issue. He said he tried to prime the system and that's when he discovered that is was spewing fuel. I guess he was checking it's integrity. He buttoned the thing back up and gave me the new fuel filter that he was going the replace to old one with.

    So, I called the dealer. The dealer tells me that they will not fix the problem under warranty because I didn't have them do the work. Their claim is that my mechanic caused the problem and therefore it's not covered. Of course they said I could call DCX customer service, but they will tell me the same thing. However, I know that this is a known issue. Many folks here have reported the same thing. It may help me fight DCX if I had a list of folks that have experienced the same problem. I suspect that I'm going to have a fight on my hands and it might be helpful if I could provide a list of folks that are experiencing the same issue. This might be able to serve as proof that my mechanic did not cause this problem and that there is a problem with this part.

    If memory serves, I recall some have reported this issue to the NHTSA. If so where do I find the complaints that have been register on this issue? This information might also help in proving it's a known issue and wasn't something caused by my mechanic.

    Boy has this been a night to remember....

    I hadn't got more than a block away from my mechanic's shop and the CRD stopped running right there in the middle of the road (heavy traffic too - joy!). Unfortunately, I had to coordinate a ride from a friend and the shop had long since closed by the time I got there to pick up the CRD. Anyway, I was stopped waiting for the light to change - so I didn't have any momentum to pull if off the road. Nobody would help to give me a push. I had to call the police to give me an assist. Then it took the tow truck and hour and 45 minutes to get to me. The tow truck guy hopped into vehicle and turned the key to put in neutral. He left the key on and within a minute smoke was rolling out from under the hood. I thought the thing was going to catch on fire. I jump in the vehicle, turned off the key, popped the hood, and pull the heater plug off (which was where all the smoke was coming from).

    Boy I’m PO'ed… especially with my dealer’s response....

    When it came time to buy, I was deciding between a F-150 and the CRD. Today I wish I went with the F-150.
  • steve05steve05 Posts: 52
    Hey Farout!
    Just a tidbit here - four different auto journalists in the Detroit area newspapers all gave the Compass "2 thumbs down." Everything from fit and finish, to ride comfort, to controls layout. You may want to test drive them both - and more than just around the block.

    - S
  • nescosmonescosmo Posts: 453
    TBBT.... Police find criminals because they brag too much.
    Meaning that you should not tell the dealer what you do to the CRD. How could you tell them that you had a mechanic doing some work to it , knowing how the dealers are. Take it to another dealer and do not say anything, perhaps you can get away with it. Good lock....

    Nescosmo
  • tbbttbbt Posts: 6
    True, it would have helped the situation if I hadn't mentioned that fact. However, DCX can't refuse warranty coverage because a non-dealer performed the service work.

    Relevant sections of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act:

    Section 2302. Rules governing contents of warranties

    (c) Prohibition on conditions for written or implied warranty; waiver by Commission No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission if -

    (1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

    (2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.

    Section 2304. Federal minimum standards for warranties

    (c) Waiver of standards
    The performance of the duties under subsection (a) of this section shall not be required of the warrantor if he can show that the defect, malfunction, or failure of any warranted consumer product to conform with a written warranty, was caused by damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) while in the possession of the consumer, or unreasonable use (including failure to provide reasonable and necessary maintenance).

    It appears that in order for DCX to legally deny coverage, they have to show, or prove, that the mechanic caused damage (not resulting from defect or malfunction) to the part. I think they would have a hard time proving such a case, especially since the connector is burnt. The burnt connector proves that this didn't just occur while the mechanic was performing routine maintanence.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Phosphor bronze 'Faston' terminals were used in the automobile industry many years ago because this material was reliable. The military and aerospace industry still use it today.

    In the meantime most automobile manufacturers chose brass to cut down expenses in the light of the average life expectation of a vehicle. One of my headlight connectors burnt because of this cheap material, and I can imagine we will all have a potential problem with the fuel heater connection fused at 10Amp.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Sorry about what happened to who ever it was, Tbbt. However, a few years back F150's had an electrical problem that set the trucks on fire after they were driven and shut off. Some of them caught on fire in their owners' garages and burned their houses down.
  • tbbttbbt Posts: 6
    That was on the previous variant of the F-150 and other Ford products. I believe the issue was due to a faulty cruise control deactivation switch. Anyway, I'm not aware of any major issue with the current version of the F-150.
  • siberiasiberia Posts: 520
    Actually I like the new F150 it just does not fit my needs. My point was that the grass is not always greener and the path not taken is never really known. Someday the Libertys with problems will be just another "variant" too.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    syeve05: We have driven both and take the freeway, and stop and go traffic. For me sitting in the drivers seat there are two differences. In the Compass there are some blind spots due to the narrower back window. The Patriot has no noticeable blind spots. However the hood is higher and longer, so there is not as much front view of things closer to the front. They both drive the very same. I can sit in the front seat and my wife in the back seat and it's got plenty of room. The liberty is a tight fit for most people.
    What is so odd at the four large dealerships within 150 miles from us, all the service managers say these vehicles are very trouble free. If others have issues with the CVT transmission shifting, it is different, but so was our CRD shifting into 5th Lockup at 63mph. We drive at the speed limit and get passed a lot. Maybe after all the time and miles we spent trying to get the "Green Beast" running right
    makes these vehicle seem great, at this time anyway. As far as the ride it's sure a lot more comfortable than the liberty. The comparisons are just not equal. WE both read the Car & Driver report and two others. The parriot should be the same as the Compass but the "first drives don't reflect that at all.
    If there was a fit and rough edges on the interior problems, the ones we have seem have corrected the problems.
    We still have not decided on a Patriot or the Compass, but we know the colors we want. Either the Khaki, or the Jeep Green, either one looks real nice to us. The Patriot is $1,000. if equally equiped, wonder why?


    farout
  • winter2winter2 Posts: 1,801
    Farout,

    I change oil at about 5K miles whether it needs it or not. I use Amsoil products including their oil filters. They have a new line of them that are made with microfiber media and they are quite substantial.

    I have been using Amsoil oil in the engine for about 10K miles and did not clean the hoses prior to switching over so I will look this fall to see what gives.

    Good luck with getting your issues resolved. Would be nice if you could get your CRD fixed properly. At least the dealer is offering some support but what you need is a tech with some perseverance and more than two brain cells to rub together. The problems you are having with it are so bizzare. I cannot imagine Star being that stupid or stumped. It is simply beyond me that they cannot fix your CRD.
  • twocycle2twocycle2 Posts: 55
    ***"The Patriot is $1,000. if equally equiped, wonder why?"

    Farout,

    Either the Patriot or the Compass has a true 4x4 system available.....I forget which, but that may account for price difference. Both offer 4wd, but one of them offers an upgrade (I think it's the Patriot, if I'm not mistaken) that is a more serious off-road 4x4 system....might be worth asking the dealer about it, especially if you will be using it in rough terrain.

    Twocycle2
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    winter2: I think the fact that STAR has not been able to help resolve at least the computer issues ( and there are several ECM, PCM, TCM, and some other ?CM's too) That by what a Tech. said there is a problem somewhere. When so much warranty time or money is invested, then perhaps (I don't know this for sure) DCX wants to stop dumping money in it? The fuel gauge that has had 4 sending units in the tank says it's not the sending unit. The Tech spent almost 4 hours just trying to trace down why.
    If I has stayed much longer in the dealerships waiting room, I would have to notified Social Security of a change of address. I listened to so many salesman speal I could have stepped in at any point and taken over for him. In fact I think I could close better than some of these guys. I know for sure after reading all the booklets on the DCX vehicles I could have subed for the parts guy! And thats just not cool for a customer to be able to fill in for these many positions. (especially with no pay) I just am not going to do it!

    farout
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    twocycle2: Neither are a 4x4 like the liberty. The Patriot has a "crawl 4X4" which gets 21 mpg. It's for those who wantbe rock crawlers. It adds tow hooks, air filtering, full size tire spare, fuel, trans, oil pan skid plates, CVT/off road crawl ratio, all for only $605. The cheapest I have seen one is on a limited for $27,540. It comes with lots a play pretty toys, like the DVD/GPS, sun roof, and some more expensive goodies. If I need a GPS, I got no business being where ever it is I was that I shouldn't be. Don't ya know?

    farout
  • zoomy2zoomy2 Posts: 50
    VM Motori is jointly developing with General Motors Corp., (GM) a premium V-6 turbo-diesel engine that will launch in the Cadillac CTS in 2009.
    The new 2.9-liter V-6 diesel engine (184 nkW/250 hp), which was unveiled by GM at the Geneva Motor Show on March 6, features state-of-the-art injection and combustion technology for low emissions and high performance.

    Possible for US Market?

    Farout,

    Sorry to here about all of your problems with your CRD. Ours were only made days apart, early June 2005. My dealer only sold (4) and (1) white was purchased back by DCX for unsolved problems. My dealer has been very supportive in fixing mine as it has needed repairs/recalls.

    I just got the rear diff. oil (75W-140 synethic) changed $93., plus the regular 5000 mile service setting me back $193.+. Mobil 1 0W-40 only. I have over 38,000 on mine and it just got 25.6 MPG by fill and refill method normal only to 24.4 MPG.

    zoomy
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    zoomy2: I sure wish someone could offer some kind of assistance in just fixing the "Green Beast". Not one dealer within 100 miles will even attempt a try at this point. I am aware that DCX has buy backs in a number of the CRD's. How many I have no idea. The only dealer Tech. who told me he could most likely fix our CRD was Dan at Yark Jeep in Toledo, Ohio. He says he knows whats wrong with the fuel gauge system, and he believes he knows why the cruise control kicks out as well the jerking of the engine. But Toledo is a far peace down the road, don't ya know. We have invested many, many hours in the waiting room at the dealership, with no results.
    After driving the Patriot and the Compass, and comparing what each come standard with, we have chosen the Compass. The Patroit drives the same and has the same stuff undernieth but the bodys are very different. It comes down more to what a person likes. We like the Light Khaki with the Pebble Beige interior. My wife says it has to have a Power Sunroof. So besides this we are going over dealers inventory seeing whats out there, so we can tell the IFG when they call to say lets do it now, we can say here is what we want and here is one we like. At least that's how we have been told it works something like it anyway.

    farout
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Post a list of the problems you are having with your CRD and lets see what we can come up with. I'll give you as much assistance as possible. I only have 45,000 miles on mine with the last non recall item being glow plugs at 23,000 miles. The dealer will only see mine if it's a warranty issue.
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Goodcrd,
    The ideal way to help would be to have access to the data of a professional OBD code reader, the equivalent to a memory dump file. I doubt the list of problems alone can be sufficient to produce a reliable diagnostic. A simulation must be done for understanding what's going wrong.
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    caribou1: You are correct. Just posting the symptons that may appear as the real problem, can indeed be a result on some other malfuncting part. With STAR hooked up to the computer and conected to our CRD, it only had the dealer throw more parts at the vehicle. I was told if it ain't got a code we can't fix it.that includes the four fuel gauge sending units in the tank.
    We have pretty much accepted the fact the "Green Beast" needs to be tamed by someone smarted than we can find any where near here, so has DCX.
    Diesel fuel here is not at $2.70 a gallon, up from $2.33 three weeks ago. From what you have said these prices would seem like dirt cheap to you, right?

    Farout
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Farout, when you say technicians need a code to give you an answer, this reminds me the attitude of the "new generation" of sales people. Some think we cannot read and read out loud what's written on the labels. I enjoy this on a daily basis. They have no hand-on experience and professional schools train them to work with computers, not with their brain (or what's left of it). When you buy trousers, sales people can afford to buy this specific product and share experience. A dish washer with Start-Delay becomes more difficult to explain. But when comes the time to understand and imagine what can go wrong in the central controller of a modern vehicle, you land here ;)
    Our diesel is now 1.12 Euro per liter, approx 5.46 USD/Gal.

    I had a long chat with the head mechanics at my dealership when I took the truck in for ball joint recall (which was a non-issue by the way). He told me clearly to stay away from power chips that will destroy the torque converter. Apparently we have the same model but I have a bit less torque at the low end and this makes a huge difference. Concerning the hesitations of the shifting pattern when the torque converter is OK, he clearly pointed towards the EGR system. So all goes well from this side of the pond.

    Which symptom calls for a fuel gauge exchange? Could you describe how your gauge behaves? If you have a look at this thing you will find it quite simple. It's surprising to read that people can exchange the same part so many times :surprise:
  • goodcrdgoodcrd Posts: 253
    Codes are just helpful. Step one to getting a good tech is finding one who knows how the system functions and how it is designed. Step two is to find one who knows how to trouble shoot in a methodical, logical, and ethical manner. I deal with twenty five to forty diesel techs each day. Just list the problems and you will find that your knowledge will increase and the problems will decrease. Part of the issue with dealers is that they don't want to spend the time (money) needed to diagnose intermitant or unclear performance complaints. If it doesn't jump up and bite them the tech goes to the next easiest solution for themselves. Now accountability of employee performance comes into play. The dealer doesn't like to confront loser tech with job performance so they snow the car owner with some crap and hope they go away.

    Back to the list. Providing a list of issues will help to walk you through what needs to be checked. Most good techs have three things: A good laptop computer, digital multi-meter and good work ethic. And code just gives a place were to start looking!
  • faroutfarout Posts: 1,609
    goodcrd: Cruise control drops or kicks out when going down hill, at the bottom and when it starts to go up hill. This does not have to be a big dip either. We live in an area that has dips in the freeways so even on a fairly nice freeway dip it kicks out. The light never goes out, all I have to do is hit resume. The engine shudders, or jerks or bucks, between 50 to 70mph. There is no pattern, just at very odd times. The jerking lasts from 1/2 to a 1 1/2 min.
    Fuel gauge is never even close to accurate. The gauge can say 1/4 and it can be empty. I can fill it up and it sticks at 3/4 full. We had it say 1/2 and it has taken 6 gal. The gauge is a constant game the "Green Beast" plays on us. They have replaced 4 sending units in the tank. The front windows leak air so much so that if you light a match and bring it in the curved top area it will blow out the match! door deals have been replaced twice. Service manager says he has done everything, and to adjust the doors anymore will not line up with the body. After the F-37 recall the fuel mpg droped from 21.6 and 24.6mpg to less than 20 mpg on open road, and between 60 and up when we try to get into a passing gear it has no power, just barely gets much speed up. Several sensors have been replaced as well the PCM. Passengers seat belt has gone bad twice. Inner cooler hose was replaced, EGR flow valve replaced, ball joints recalled, and 5 reflash's were done by recall. There has been a total of 25 trips to the dealer and this represents 2,400 miles and more than 100 hours at the dealer waiting for work to be done.
    The things we like are the Rear Cargo Organizer, the five speed trans, the color Deep Beryl Green, the Chrome Front Grill we had put in. We have done some more things to it that fit our needs. BUT we are sick and tired of constantly having these problems. This AM my wife left our house with 3/8 of a tank, she drove 25 miles and it was showing at the empty light and at the empty peg that makes the gauge stop from going down anymore. We are retired and I have some serious medical problems, and we depend upon a dependable vehicle as we live pretty far out in the Ozarks. At present we take our 96 Dodge Neon with 193,000+ miles on it, The Neon has been well taken care of from the day we drove it home from the new car dealer. That sure says a lot right there. Any suggestions?

    Farout
  • caribou1caribou1 Posts: 1,354
    Farout, sounds like your 4th fuel gauge is still rubbing onto an anti-splash separation in your tank, or something fell in there during assembly. If it's not that, it has to be electrical. Any retired automobile mechanics should be able to help you on this one.
  • Farout

    There is a very good dealership in Sullivan MO. West Bros. They have a great service dept. I don,t know how far they are from you but their technicians think on their feet and don't need a code to work on something.

    You could disconnect your EGR valve and see if this stops the bucking motion, it will throw a code but should still be drivable. You fixed the cruise control problem the first time by replacing the PCM, could there be a bad connector on the wiring harness that has resurfaced? My guess would be bad wiring harness problems are the root of many of your problems.

    Someone here about 8 months ago had there wiring harness fall down onto the muffler or driveshft and it melted the insulation and started doing some weird things. So the early builds such as yours may be suffering from these kind of things.
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