Subaru Crew: Suggestions for Subaru

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  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    It's the same way people look at computers and think the clock speed of the processor is the end all be all of computer performance. You can have a 3.0 GHz here, or a 2.5 GHz there, and you may be very surprised at which one runs faster in the real world.

    Are humans doomed to funnel everything into one number? Horsepower, cylinders, clock speed, and things I can't mention on this family board. ; )
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Yeah, and did you ever notice that if a guys always flaunting the first 3 it usually means the fourth one isn't big enough.

    Nicholas- who was just reminded of the joke about the elephant and the mouse in the Ferrari.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.wintonsworld.com/cars/renault-meganecc.html

    I'd love to see Subaru offer a version of the Legacy like this. A 4-passenger luxury GT convertable with a folding hardtop. Note: Lexus already offers such a car, but the rear seats are useless for for anybody with legs. The rear seats on the new Megane CC, while not great, at least appears to be able to actually sit four humans with legs.

    If Subaru were to offer such a vehicle, it should come standard with the H-6, 5EAT and leather. This would be afterall, a luxury GT, not a street brawler.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You're on Greg. Loser buys the first round at next year's NY Auto Show.

    And you guys are all correct, *however* Subaru is not selling car to those mainstream buyers. The 2.5T has more niche appeal.

    Bob: neat, but could they price it competitively?

    -juice
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    I believe that 3,5 and 7 cylinder engines sound a bit odd to me. Rob M.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Rob- Then you haven't looked at Volvos lately :-)

    Actually your post gave me incentive to remember which vehicle I was looking at. It was the Volvo S-60 R, which has a 2.5L 5-cylinder engine that is rated at 300hp. Interesting that it has the identical displacment and output as the STi but with one more cylinder.

    -Frank P.
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Yep... and $10k more....

    Not worth it... been there done that!
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    it's also 300lb or more heavier. that's why it's a LOT slower.

    ~c
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Bob: neat, but could they price it competitively?

    I see a Legacy coupe/convertable as a halo luxury car, positioned against the Saab 9-3 and BMW 3 Series rag tops. Perhaps upper $30K range? I think it would do well in affluent beach communities, and help Subaru get more established in the sun belt.

    Besides AWD, it would offer something BMW and Saab don't offer: A folding hardtop. The MB SLK and SL roadsters with folding hardtops have been well recieved, but they are only 2-seaters. Lexus also offers such a vehicle but with a *fake* rear seat, and it too has been well recieved.

    Bob
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    and ugly. Something about the lines on the Volvo that just bugs me.

    Now that the spec sheet is out on the new Legacy, I am not as freaked out about price. The GT LTD with my requisite options is still in my price range. I was OTF on color - either silver or black. Now dw thinks that the dark blue is distinguished.
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    Talk about "butt ugly", but I just hate the rear of the Volvo as it is currently ... almost (but not quite) as ugly as the Inifinity SUV from the rear!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Shame on you! I think Volvo makes some of the best looking sedans and wagons on the planet. :) I especially like their butts!

    Bob
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    so isn't it good we have a choice?!!...lol
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Absolutely! :)

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is one of the most hideous cars i've ever seen! It's also a "girlie" car IMHO, along with the lates gen of eclipse, especially the spyder.

    -mike
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    I wasn't trying to compare the STi with the Volvo S60 R, merely pointing out the coincidence of two very different vehicles having the same size engine and HP. But since you mention it, I think the S60 is very attractive (especially the butt). I even test drove one a couple of years ago but wasn't impressed with the ride. Then there's the less than stellar reliability factor, which would keep me from buying a Volvo.

    -Frank P.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, the Lexus SC is a hot seller.

    I like newer Volvos. I wish Subaru would take a cue from them and square off the rear hatches. The Forester is, but the other Subies aren't.

    -juice
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    Some suggestions:

    1. Put the a 2.5 liter turbo (similar to Forester XT) in the WRX (non-STi)

    2. Add a blue exterior color to the Forester XT model. If not World Rally Blue then the Pacifica Blue Pearl from the XS and X models.

    (Apologies for cross posting in Patti's SOA topic)

    Thanks!
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Don't you dare square off the back end of my WRX wagon!!

    Nicholas
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    My biggest suggestion for SOA or maybe just SOC, (but I don't know who to pester for that) would be to fix the gear ratios on the WRX. It is probably the only disappointment I have with my new baby, and it's actually getting more annoying.
    Wading through all the info on the Net, it is also clear I'm not the only one with this issue.
    1st should be shorter to improve response off the line, and 2nd should be even shorter. Then bring 3-4-5 down a little. People buying the 5MT are not going to be turned off by a little extra shifting. Those people have a choice, it's called 4EAT.
    I think it was SPD that stated it's not a 5 speed and called it a functional 2 speed, but I disagree. For the dominant city driving I do, I consider the car a "ONE speed plus overdrive". I don't count first because that's just the gear I have to suffer in until I can shift into second without lugging. Then I accelerate in 2nd to my desired terminal velocity and shift into "overdrive" which is typically 4th. It's too late for me, but please fix this for future buyers.

    Nicholas
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    She & her daughter came down from NH this weekend to attend the woman's march in Washington. She has an 2000 Outback. I happened mentioned to her that I was going to Las Vegas on behalf of Subaru in 3 weeks, and her first question to me was: "When is Subaru coming out with a hybrid?"

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Another way of adressing this would be to get the JDM 2.0 engine over here.

    I would guess that AVCS and ~250 h.p. makes it more resonsive off the line.

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    WRX wagon can remain a 5 door hatch, basically, because the Forester shares that platform. So they already have a utility-shaped wagon on that platform.

    -juice
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    SPD in their article FWIW said that the benefits of the JDM refinements would in large part be lost due to lower octane gas and emissions requirements in NA.
    What I really want is that six speed. I'm quite sure if I had it that I'd consider the car perfect. I'm sure many others would find the shifting too busy. Factory option maybe?? Factory options like that seem to be anathema to the non-American brands.
    OR produce 10 or 20% of Rex's with the 6spd. Then it would have a tiny impact on CAFE regs etc. I'll bet you they fly out of the show rooms at well over invoice, so the dealers wouldn't mind.

    Nicholas
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Either one of those, the 2.5T engine or the 6 speed, would effectively kill the already slow-selling STi. Just keep that in mind.

    Perhaps if they are ready to phase out the STi, then they could do those for the WRX.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Keep the 2.5 out of the WRX IMHO.
    Ok, with AVCS a USDM 2.0 might get ~240 h.p. ?? I think AVCS should help off-the-line performance.

    -Dennis
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    young punks will drive whatever they can afford and like the styling of.

    do you have any valid reason to keep the 2.0L in the WRX, Dennis?

    ~c
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    That may be one reason to keep the 2.0L.

    I think my latest suggestion would be to offer the "hose out-able" (well, sort of) cargo area in the upcoming L.L. Bean Forester across the Forester line.

    Ed
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    not true anymore. WRC class took away almost every rule that the Group A class required for homologation.

    and who cares about Group N...

    there are still tax reasons in Japan, Europe and Asia though.

    ~c
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    I may have waffled way back, but now that she's broken in, I have no interest in a bigger engine. I have to go out of my way to find situations which let me use the power I have now. Even then I am in danger of attracting the attention of my local constabulary. Truth is that once moving, the WRX is stinkin' fast. I'd just like to improve the 1st gear 'bog' that happens if you don't launch WOT. Not sure, but I think that's probably not great for longevity if it's done at every stop light.
    Drop by nabisco, and you'll see there is no danger that the 6spd in the ej20 would kill STi sales. I mean that flimsy block and clutch is only safe up to about 300-320bhp! I need more power than that!LOL
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    it needs more low end torque, not peak HP. that's exactly what a forester XT spec 2.5L turbo would give it!

    ~c
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    yeah, that's how we have Accent and Focus rallycars.

    ~c
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ummm folks it's called an STi. That's the whole idea. Pony up the $$$$ and buy the STi. If a wagon is what you're after... Legacy GT and Forester XT are available... Plenty of choices...

    As for your worst case scenario, come to us and we'll do an STi Driveline swap for you.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    it needs more low end torque, not peak HP. that's exactly what a forester XT spec 2.5L turbo would give it!

    We agree again!

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Then how do you reconcile 2.0 WRXs and 2.0 WRX-STis sold in Europe and elsewhere?

    A 250 HP WRX is no threat to a 300 HP STi (either in the showroom or the track), both with 2.5 engines.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    What are you talking about bob? What I'm saying is if people want a 2.5L turbo in a WRX, then they can get an STi, it's just another trim-level of Impreza. Outside the US market the consumer has a very different outlook to cars, also the 2.0L motor in the WRX is a staple in the subaru line, well tested and I bet FHI has lots and lots of spare parts and contracts for parts for them, so it's less expensive to produce.

    The 2.0L can get more power but it would not be smart to put the 2.5L turbo in the mid-level WRX trim level. Maybe I view things differently, but I see the Impreza line as:

    RS/TS: "stripped" trim level
    WRX: "mid-level" trim level
    STi: "High-end" trim level

    With each higher level of trim you also get more power and ammenties (nicer dash, etc)

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a "high-line" model. Yes, it's a super performance car, but the WRX has more standard amenities, like a radio for example. When I think of high-line, I think luxury, and STi is certainly not aimed in that direction.

    If Subaru offered a 2.5 WRX with the Legacy GT engine state of tune, WRX customers would benefit, Subaru would be streamlining their production for the American market, and those who want the ultimate in performance would still buy the STi.

    I'm betting that when the next generation WRX rolls out, it will have a 2.5 engine.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    safe bet.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You are the one who said that Subaru was re-defining "Premium" so why wouldn't the STi be considered the hi-line model?

    I knew you would pull the "but it has no radio" thing... The gauges, interior, diffys, HIDs, etc all are a "Premium" level compared to a regular WRX.

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    That's what high-line usually means to most people. The items you mention don't register one iota with those looking for luxury.

    I don't disagree that the items you mentioned are "premium," but they're not luxury or comfort oriented. That's all I'm saying.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    STi = Premium
    WRX = Standard
    RS/TS = Base-line

    :)

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    premium has always meant comfort and luxury.

    of course, I've NEVER seen paisan change his mind or admit he was wrong. I think we'll see a B11-based new SVX and Juice's coveted B9 Scrambler in production before we see that! LOL

    ~c
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I agree with you colin on the premium, however, Bob was the one about 2 months ago argueing with ME that Premium didn't have to mean upscale, and that subaru was "redefining" premium....

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I consider a Land Rover Defender to be a "premium" off-road vehicle, yet it is by no means "luxurious." On the other hand when I hear high-line" to me that suggests luxury first. It may also include performance, but then again it may not.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    STi = Premium
    WRX = Standard
    RS/TS = Base

    How does that grab yah?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, Bob and Colin, you guys are scaring me. Let's go back to the FWD vs. RWD debate and make things normal again. ;-)

    If Subaru does a special edition STi and/or gives it 330hp, it could give the regular WRX the 250hp version of the engine from the Legacy.

    But as it stands, a 2.5T in the base WRX, selling for $21k on the street, would effectively kill the STi model (at $30k) if it only made 50 extra horses. Those are expensive ponies at $180 per!

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    do you have any valid reason to keep the 2.0L in the WRX, Dennis?

    Pretty much what mike said. Just to differentiate it from the WRX. Also the same reason that I doubt a 6 speed will make it into a non-STi (or other limited edition) model.

    -Dennis
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    6mt and active diffys etc on STi, and possibly the Legacy GT or top-trim of each model.

    -mike

    PS: Ordered your Amsoil stuff Dennis!
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
This discussion has been closed.

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