Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

theman123 · June 2006

I think the extra periods in there were the issue. This should work and if it doesn't, let me know!

Yeah that did it. OK a couple things. KarenS I thought you were suppose to smile in a picture.

That is the most depressing looking picture I've ever seen. I look at that picture and I start feeling sad myself, LOL. Whatever is wrong it can not be that bad, I hope.

Next Scape 2 nice ride !!! that silver that you have really makes that Fusion look tight. It makes that chrome front end really Bling !!!!! I see that you got a sun/moonroof. Question, did you get ABS on your car or did you stick with the 4 wheel Disc brakes ?

evandro · June 2006

It seems to me that people are poorly informed about ESC in general. It can indeed be a life-saver.

There was a video of it in action when it started being offered in the Intrigue 5 years ago or so and they zig-zagged it on snow with it and without it. The difference was one car going tail-end first and the other just following the intended trajectory. That with an ESC that only controlled the front brakes, not all four as it's common nowadays!

The only video I found was this. Too bad it was shot on dry pavement.

About 50% of new cars in Europe are sold with ESC installed. Why some demonstrated some resistance to it downplaying its effectiveness dazzles me.

Does it prevent 100% of the accidents? No, but I'd rather hedge my odds with it than without it.

baggs32 · June 2006

There was a video of it in action when it started being offered in the Intrigue 5 years ago or so and they zig-zagged it on snow with it and without it. The difference was one car going tail-end first and the other just following the intended trajectory.

So how fast were they driving in the snow? My guess is they were going too fast for the conditions just to show the system's effectiveness. If you drive at speeds appropriate for the conditions ESC isn't going to matter much. I've been driving up and down steep and winding snow covered hills for over 17 years now without ESC and never had a sliding problem.

evandro · June 2006

You know, there's such a thing as a surprise. One can find black ice on a bridge suddenly, and then it's nice to have ESC.

The fact that the test was done at a high speed is immaterial to your objection. It actually proves its effectiveness.

I haven't had any accident for over 10 years (knock on wood), but I won't stop buckling up.

akirby · June 2006

I know exactly what ESC is and how it works. I never said it didn't work, only that a careful driver in a 221 hp FWD family sedan might never activate it. If you like to drive aggressively or "zig-zag" in the snow then you're much more likely to need it. SUVs and high power sports cars are a different story.

Ask yourself this: out of all the years of driving cars without ESC - how many accidents did you have that ESC would have prevented? The only ones that qualify would be entering a turn too fast or swerving and losing control or hitting a slick spot and losing control.

It's a nice option and if it's available I'd probably get it. But to say you won't buy a Fusion because it's not available is overreacting IMO.

jeffyscott · June 2006

I didn't notice that TC was only available with the V6 until now. That is really, really stupid IMO. Pretty much every other manufacturer, save for GM, offers TC with ABS because they are so closely related.

TC has invoice cost of $83 on the V-6. So Ford could probably just add about 50 bucks to ABS price and include TC on any car that has ABS.

I drove an 05 Mazda6 (had it for a few days as a loaner) and in addition to the differences you mention, the seat seemed a bit hard and it was not as quiet (road noise, engine noise) as the Fusion or Milan (which was maybe just a little quieter than Fusion).

jeffyscott · June 2006

Are you aware that about 20% of deaths in mid-size cars involve a roll-over? This was a surprising statistic to me.

See 4th page (numbered page 3 in the actual document) of:

http://www.iihs.org/sr/pdfs/sr4003.pdf

explorerx4 · June 2006

i wonder if the real world statistics support the benefit of ESC?

skibry1 · June 2006

The oughtsix has tilt/telescoping wheel! You'll
appreciate the added leg room...wish our DoubleOught
626 had that feature.

m1miata · June 2006

Same problem as anti-lock brakes in getting evidence. Since the accident was avoided, there is no data taken. Seatbelts and airbags deployment can be followed using information taken at the time of the accident. If the ESC works, there should be no accident. Now if it screws up (a technical term for malfunction of apparatus) and the car spins out of control for no reason it may or may not be in some accident report. It may only be considered driver error.

On the race track, and on the street really good systems like Porsche can easily demonstrate how it works. You may have seen it on TV. Your question though is real world statistics for the average driver getting a benefit.

Possibly the best safety device would be people watching what they are doing on the road. Less talk and more drive.

As long as the ESC is not overly aggressive, I say why not!
-Loren

scape2 · June 2006

Thanks! I really like driving this vehicle. The handling and confident feel are outstanding. There are only 2 things I am going to do to the car. my next is to buy a bra before winter, and next summer I am going to have all the windows tinted. There is a guy at another car site that has tinted his wondows on a red Fusion SEL V6 and wow! sweet looking.
You had me going for a second with the 4wheel ABS or disc brakes? I have 4wheel disc and on my car print out it says ABS too..

mschmal · June 2006

For people who don't know how to drive in less than perfect conditions than ESC is great.

I personally have to wonder just how easy it would be for Ford to put ESC in the Fusion. It was optional in the 2004 Focus. Of course no one wanted to pay extra for it...

I don't think anyone can argue that Ford is never quick on the uptake with changing market conditions.

The decision not to put ESC in the Fusion was probably based on "no one bought it when it was optional in the Focus".

For 2007, Nissan is making Bluetooth, keyless go, and an MP3 port AVAILABLE in every vehicle, including the budget priced Versa.

Ford doesn't even offer Bluetooth or Smart Key technology in a $50,000 Lincoln.

Mark.

jeffyscott · June 2006

Actually, unlike ABS, there are real world statistical studies showing benefits from ESC. Greater benefit in SUVs, but still significant in cars.

backy · June 2006

I saw what I think is a great lease deal on a Fusion SE with side bags, ABS, and I think automatic in my local paper (Minneapolis StarTribune) today. It was at Freeway Ford and was $159/month for 24 months, about $2000 total out of pocket. That beats just about any other lease deal I've seen in this class, and it's for a car with a good level of equipment too. Ford must have some special lease subsidy on right now.

baggs32 · June 2006

The fact that the test was done at a high speed is immaterial to your objection. It actually proves its effectiveness.

Speed most certainly is material to my objection. If they were driving too fast for road conditions the ESC is sure to come on. Only an overactive system will come on when you're driving safely.

Like akirby I too would probably opt for it if available on a vehicle I'm interested in if and only if it can be shut off at times. Some can't and that would annoy the heck out of me

You know, there's such a thing as a surprise. One can find black ice on a bridge suddenly, and then it's nice to have ESC.

Again, not if you're going too fast which can't always be prevented on say, a highway. ESC isn't a guardian angel and can fail you given the right circumstances.

baggs32 · June 2006

Ford doesn't even offer Bluetooth or Smart Key technology in a $50,000 Lincoln.

True, but a $30k MAZDASPEED6 or CX-7 has it now so it won't be long before you see it more in mainstream Fords IMO.

akirby · June 2006

Lincoln has had bluetooth for a year or two as a dealer installed option.

m1miata · June 2006

How can there be if no accident was reported???
Where do they add up all the data needed to come to the conclusion of ESC working to save cars / drivers from accidents and death. If it never occurred?
-Loren

P.S. I am sure it works if there is some grip available and you did not do something totally stupid. In the video from the link on a previous post, it looks impressive. Accelerate too much before the turn, as in weight mass out of control, or on the slippery, with no braking available at all, I doubt it works. Well unless it prevents you from stupid braking or heavy throttle on snow or ice. Braking a wheel at a time makes sense only if there is traction some how.

baggs32 · June 2006

P.S. I am sure it works if there is some grip available and you did not do something totally stupid. In the video from the link on a previous post, it looks impressive. Accelerate too much before the turn, as in weight mass out of control, or on the slippery, with no braking available at all, I doubt it works. Well unless it prevents you from stupid braking or heavy throttle on snow or ice. Braking a wheel at a time makes sense only if there is traction some how.

Actually some systems, like Ford's newly patented AdvanceTrac, will retard engine power as well as apply brakes. The former is done in the event that there is no grip for braking. Some other systems only use the brakes which I would venture to guess are not as effective as the one's like Ford's. If all else fails I guess the impact will at least be less severe with the "better" systems.

jeffyscott · June 2006

These were statistical studies of groups of vehicles that were identical, except for having ESC or not. Here is one.

akirby · June 2006

One problem with that study is the comparison was done between different model years of a vehicle (older ones without ESC and newer ones with ESC). I bet older vehicles are more likely to lose control due to worn or improperly maintained tires. I also don't think the sample size is large enough yet. Not saying it's wrong, just that the numbers might be skewed a little to the high side.

It does point out that SUVs seem to benefit twice as much as cars and that ESC only comes into play when driving too fast or encountering slippery conditions. I bet if you look at the data for FWD sedans vs. coupes or sports cars the numbers are much lower.

m1miata · June 2006

Maybe if you drop an anchor out the window it would help?
The natural reaction of people is to hold off on acceleration.
-Loren

ace35 · June 2006

Ford doesn't even offer Bluetooth or Smart Key technology in a $50,000 Lincoln.

Actually the Navi has bluetooth, but no smart key

mschmal · June 2006

This ad can't be right..

$159 x 24 is only $3,816.00...

add the $2,000 out of your pocket and you are up to $5,816.00

First Freeway Ford in Minn. only has one SE 4 cylinder in stock and its manual transmission with an MSRP of $20,165. There is a $1,000 rebate.

There is no way you could lease this car for $159 x 24 with only $2,000 due at signing.

The ad in New York is $189 per month on an SE with just sport package and safety package. MSRP of $19,375.00.

This is 39 months with 10,500 miles per year and $2383 due at signing PLUS TAX, Registration and Title, and dealer document fee.

Mark.

m1miata · June 2006

Avoid blue teeth. They will look strange :surprise:

Still can not believe anything electronic can keep a car from sliding on ice. There simply is no traction. You are on for the ride on black ice. Now after you exit the ice - maybe that is what they mean by ice dancing with ESC?

-Loren

ANT14 · June 2006

LINK

badgerfan · June 2006

Everything is more expensive in NY!

snakeweasel · June 2006

This ad can't be right..

Sure it can, but it only allows you to put on 4 miles a day and only applies to the car that would have been leased by the time you get there.

sturm_ruger · June 2006

"One of the upgrades I would like to see on the future Fusions (and all Fords, for that matter) is a redesign of the radio. The LCD is really dated, and controls are tiny and poor marked. AUX (MP3) jack input is also a must today. And if I remember correctly, the power/volume knob is not lit at night."

The aftermarket addresses all of these issues and then some. Typically, factory sound systems in cars use really crappy speakers and mediocre electronics. Even on the SEL, the factory "audiophile" system is a $420 option ($535 on the SE). This unit is not true high-end "audiophile" such as the Mark Levinson system offered by Lexus or the B&O system in some Audis.

Alpine, JBL, Polk Audio, and Boston Acoustics are just some of the brands of aftermarket car audio gear available for the Fusion/Milan. Just go to crutchfield.com and click on "Car Audio and Video." Next, click on the "Find out what fits my car" icon, and you'll get a list filtered to exclude components which don't fit the Fusion/Milan.

Evidently the Fusion/Milan have factory cutouts in the doors which accept 5.25" speakers and in the rear deck which will take 6.5" or 6.75" round speakers. The dash radio opening seems to be DIN standard.

This means a pretty wide selection of speakers and in-dash units to choose from. You can get head units which have iPod jacks, built-in XM satellite tuners, etc. There are units which will play CDs, CD-Rs, and CD-RWs- including discs loaded with MP3 files (There's even a Sony unit which has 1 GB of MP3 memory). You can get units with Bluetooth enabled or HD Radio units. There are even untis which will play both CDs and cassette tapes still available.

Installation is really easy, as the factory cutouts and wiring are alrerady there. Crutchfield and other car audio sellers have very good installation guides to walk you through it. But there are also car stereo shops that will do the installation for you.

You don't have to do it all at once, either. You can first just replace the speakers, and change out the electronics later. Installing good speakers will have the greatest effect on sound quality. You'll wind up with a sound system in your Fusion or Milan that sounds much better than the factory unit, and if you choose your components carefully, you'll spend the same or just a little more than you would for the "audiophile" option.

badgerfan · June 2006

I poked aroung the Minneapolis Star Tribune web site and I think I found the ad with the dealer Freeway Ford. But the deal was $3000 down and $159/month for 24 months. Thus total deal $6816.

Leasing is not what I do however. I buy new, keep em for 10 years or so and about 100K miles at 10K per year.

snakeweasel · June 2006

Leasing is not what I do however. I buy new, keep em for 10 years or so and about 100K miles at 10K per year.

Please tell me you pay cash for your cars.

badgerfan · June 2006

Yes, I generally pay cash, unless the financing incentives at the time make it too hard to pass up.

For example, when I bought my current 2000 Taurus SES (Duratech equipped, by the way) Ford had a $1000 rebate plus, if I recall, 0.9% financing for 36 months. It was not an either one or the other proposition, the offer included both incentives. At the time, I was earning more than that out of CD's or money market accounts so I financed 100% (I have a top notch credit rating). This was the first time I ever walked out of the dealership with a new car and paid absolutely nothing down. Felt a bit like I was stealing the car!

rj123456 · June 2006

Ford is running some pretty good ads, so this is possible. For the same 39-month/10,500 mile term I leased a Lincoln Zephyr for $293 (which includes 8.25% CA tax) with $0 down (ZERO, no reg/title/doc etc).

backy · June 2006

The ad I saw the other day in the StarTribune was definitely $2000 out of pocket and $159/mo. I looked at the numbers several times because they were so incredibly great. So it could have been a misprint or maybe a "loss leader". Also the miles were only 10,500 per year. It was definnitely a SE with side bags/curtains and ABS; those were mentioned prominently in the ad. The thing I am unsure of is whether it was an automatic or stick.

badgerfan · June 2006

Well, the Freeway Ford ad on the StarTribune web site definitely stated $3K out of pocket. I don't live up there, but I see you do. Maybe you should go and see if the offer is real.

backy · June 2006

Yes, I saw another ad from Freeway Ford in yesterday's paper and the small print did say $3000 out of pocket including first payment, security deposit, license fee, and acquisition fee. I know that the ad last weekend, a different one, did say $2000. I stared at it for a long time in disbelief. So the offer is definitely real, for $3000 out of pocket anyway. Still a very good deal I think. I wonder if it would be possible to negotiate the security deposit (with excellent credit) and acquisition fee?

Freeway Ford is very close to me, but since I won't be buying/leasing a new car right now I won't waste their time and my time. I posted the info for the benefit of people looking for a good deal on a Fusion lease.

scape2 · June 2006

changed their oil to synthetic? If so do you feel its worth the extra $$

scape2 · June 2006

Fusions around now. Kind of funny, a guy in a new red SEL V6 with black leather pulled up opposite of me at a 4way stop and he kind of raised his hand from the wheel and smiled. I responded in kind...

badgerfan · June 2006

Hope this link works:

http://www.strategicvision.com/auto_segmentwinners.php?year=2006&award=TQA&seg=2- 5

Fusion on top of its segment. Amazingly, look how low Accord and Camry rank!

chrisford · June 2006

It's about time Fusion get some good press. I am so tired of the Bland Camcord always being on top.

robr2 · June 2006

I'm not buying that this award is that important. They're a consulting company to the industry and can make numbers look any way they want.

The biggest gripe I have with this survey is that it applies objective numbers to subjective answers - according to their web site, their survey includes "the emotional response" to the vehicle and the buying experience itself.

badgerfan · June 2006

That can be said for the vaunted Consumer Reports survey as well. Nowhere in CR's survey are you queried about the cost of any problem, the downtime as a result of any problem, for that matter, you are not even asked to list the frequency of a problem in a particular vehicle system.

I am not defending the Strategic Vision methodology, just pointing out its very interesting results, witrh the domestic brands almost all at the top, not at all what general public perceptions would ever have you believe. Take it or leave it, it is what it is.

mschmal · June 2006

DUH a car is an EMOTIONAL PURCHASE...Don't even bother to argue with me unless you are driving a Hyundai!

Mar.

mschmal · June 2006

Even if you believe you made your purchase based on "objective" considerations. THATS BUNK...

Your so called objective purchase was the result of your emotional need to feel that you made an objective decision.

One can always find an objective reason that backs up your emotional commitment.

Mark.

scape2 · June 2006

Thanks for the stratigic report.. Boy, the Honda/Toyota clan is going to have a hayday with this one! Noway, nohow will a Ford ever beat a Honda or Toyota is the way these folks are locked in.

Like I said, I have found 2 sites that show the Fusion to actually be quicker than the Accord. I am now getting 26.7 MPG in my V6 SEL Fusion on average. I only have about 1500 miles on it too. I feel pretty confident I am easily going to make 29 on average when I hit about 5K.

badgerfan · June 2006

Yes, there are already a few of them in denial.

Check out the Toyota Camry-2007+ discussion, there are several posts taking pot shots at Strategic Vision, without even looking around Strategic Vision's web site.

I'd post a comment over there, but no sense picking at a scab!

explorerx4 · June 2006

ford drivetrains are pretty tight. i would guess at least 10-15k to loosen up. my focus has 22k on it. mileage last tank was 32, up from about 30. this tank looks to be similar. all i do is drive it to work and back.

scape2 · June 2006

I am getting a solid 26MPG average on my Fusion SEL v6. I drive 21miles one way to work (of which 18 is freeway). I am so far very impressed with the MPG. I'm going to hunt around and see what Accord V6 automatics and Camry V6 automatic owners are getting for MPG.
With the media constantly bashing into our heads that Ford/GM can in no way ever make a sedan to match Honda/Toyota. I can truely see why you get those that are never going to believe what they read when a Ford or GM product comes out ontop. I wish I had a dollar for every glare/stare from a Honda/Toyota owner I get in my Fusion. This car is severly underated and overlooked by the media. The Fusion is a drivers car no doubt.. As I keep repeating, the handling is superb..

rj123456 · June 2006

I have a Lincoln Zephyr and given the very small number of them on the road I figured this would be a good place to post. On my first tankful I have only averaged 19.7 mpg per the readout on the dash. This is for about evenly mixed highway and city driving. The EPA ratings are 28/20. I was hoping to come in around 22.

Does the mpg get better over time?

On a related note, I'm a little miffed that Lincoln only shows average MPG and not instantaneous MPG - even my GMC Envoy shows both. But then Ford's "gizmo" levels are always lower than GMs or Toyota for that matter.

rj123456 · June 2006

I have a new 2006 Zephyr and the airconditioning seems "weak". Admittedly we have had a few near 90 degree days here, but it seems like the air coming out is not as cold as it in the other vehicles we have (1995 Saab 900 & 2002 GMC Envoy). Also to keep it cool on these warm days I have to have the fan running at a very high setting, which is very noisy. In the other vehicles I can reduce the fan speed after they have cooled down and they maintain their temperature better.

Any Fusion/Milan owners noticing airconditioning problems?

Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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