Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

theman123

Hey Good News Ford posted the sales numbers for june Only down 7%. Damn Trucks and SUV's down 14% are the reason for the downfall. But Cars are up 7% The New Trio Fusion/Milan/Zephyr almost hit 20,000 again, even the little Ford Focus was smokin.
June Sales Numbers
All-in-all not bad
:shades:
Thoughts ??

mschmal

Please take my auto tranny ranting with a grain of salt. In my opinion, they all take the fun out of driving.

My personal cars going back 10 years now...since I started buying them myself... are all sticks.

I hate auto trannies that don't feel at least as smooth shifting as I would be if I was shifting myself.

The CVT is just so smooth. I think Nissan is going to really draw people by having every sedan they make available in a CVT. They even make a CVT with a "manumatic" shift mode.

Nissan supposedly programed out the "slingshot" effect of the car. Personally I find that people don't complain about the CVT at all if you let them know why it feels the way it does.

Mark.

explorerx4

5 speed. are you referring to the 4 cyl engine too?

chuck1

Only down 7%.

Here we are, celebrating they are only DOWN 7%. Ford and GM need to figure out how to change the public perception that SOME of their cars are as good or close enough to the Japanese. People are flocking to the Accord, the new Civic, and Toyota is going to sell TRAINLOADS of the new Camry. The Fusion is a very good car and Ford has it right. The 500 is another story....

theman123

Here we are, celebrating they are only DOWN 7%. Ford and GM need to figure out how to change the public perception that SOME of their cars are as good or close enough to the Japanese.

Who is celebrating ??? The simple fact that Ford is doing anything in the most close minded and bias segment is amazing. It will take time for people to start to realize that Ford is allot better than what they think of. But the fact that you have to take into account is that these numbers are done by a year to date basis. From what I understand, the numbers are based off what the company did last year compared to this year. The main thing that throws the numbers off is this time last year Ford and GM were in the middle of the Employee Discount sales event that lasted the entire summer. Of course the numbers are going to look terrible.

You keep talking about the people flocking to Toyota and Honda, pardon my French F#$% em :mad: Too me it's pretty obvious that it's the people now not solely the product. Most likely they are the kind of people that would never by an American car anyway. Or if they did buy one, Ford would have to basically give it to them. So, actually that's a good thing they are buying a Toyota and Honda. Trust me I'm in sales. The last thing that you want is a customer buying a product they have a bad perception of. Why? 9 times out 10 the customer will make it a terrible product even thought there is nothing wrong with it at all. The customer will come up with some silly BS reason to hate the product. For example, Oh the Fusion stinks because the cup holders are too small, I'll never buy a Ford again Blah Blah Blah Blah... :mad:

Nissan sales were down 20-30% in June.

chuck1

"Most likely they are the kind of people that would never by an American car anyway"

While I don't have any facts to support this statement, I would say that the Growth that Toyota has seen HAD TO COME from former domestic car owners. I have owned some of the junk that Detroit has produced. In my household now is a '05 4Runner, an '02 Tundra, and an '03 Tacoma, and a '01 Mazda.

There is a reason Toyota will surpass GM this year has the worlds largest car seller.

johnclineii

Hmmm. If those are your cars and you are so sure that Toyota and Honda are so superior, why are you reading and posting in THIS forum...devoted to the Fusion/Milan?

Seriously? I am curious.

chuck1

Have to replace a company car with one that I will own. I am considering a Fusion. Best to have an "American" car in my business.

explorerx4

buy a year old taurus. cheap and it could be just about any year.

scape2

don't think people are "flocking" to Honda/Toyota. Granted thier sales are up but not by double digit percentage points.. Get out on the net. People are making choices other than the same old bland, everyone has one Accord/Camry. I wish I had a dollar for everytime I got a look in my Fusion. I have had about 10 people, total strangers come up and ask about my Fusion. I bet you can't find a Honda or Toyota owner that can say that!
Choice is good..

chuck1

"buy a year old taurus."

Yes, they are cheap but uncomfortable. I have an '05 SE Taurus that is leased by the company I work for. I will have had it two years end of September. It has 54,000 miles on it. Wholesale book is about $6,700.00, probably less when the lease ends in September. I might buy it and drive for an additional year!

pdxtaurus

So I'm in the market for a Fusion, and a local dealership has an SE with all of the options that I want (ABS, SAB), and a few that I could do without (auto, sport), arriving next week. MSRP is $20,990, invoice is $19,575, and they're offering it at invoice, less rebates ($18,575, unless Ford changes the rebates between now and then).

Is this likely to be the best I can do? If I wait until, say, Labor Day, would I probably be able to do better? The Fusion's selling well, I think, so I would guess that it won't change a whole lot. What do you think?

akirby

Invoice (if it's really invoice) is a good deal right now. But beware of added fees like documentation ($400 usually) and other stuff that drives the price back up. Invoice with no fees including rebates is a great deal. Invoice with fees is still good but not great depending on the fees.

midwesttrader

WARD'S 10 Best Selling U.S. Cars
6 Months 2006

1 Camry 211,131
2 Corolla/Matrix 197,303
3 Accord 178,116
4 Civic 165,056
5 Impala 144,730
6 Cobalt 119,952
7 Altima 116,959
8 Taurus 103,705
9 Focus 96,396
10 Malibu 89,832

Source: Ward's AutoInfoBank
©Copyright 2006, Ward's Automotive Group, a division of Prism Business Media Inc. Redistribution prohibited.

chuck1

"Taurus 103,705"

My company until recently was replacing all Taurus company cars with the 500's.

This led me to believe that 500's were not doing well, hence the fleet move on Ford's part. According to the above Ward's list, that would seem correct.

At least the Impala has some resemblance of style. Unlike the 500 that came out of the gate shouting "boring!"

calhon

That list is useless for telling whether people are flocking to Toyota/Honda. Toyota (moreso) and Honda are gaining market share at the expense of the domestics, but I wouldn't call it "flocking". Also, their share is still way behind the domestics. June 2006 YTD vehicle market shares:

GM - 24.1%
Ford - 17.3%
Chrysler - 13.5%
Domestic total - 54.9%
Toyota - 14.6%
Honda - 8.9%

Source: http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060704/AUTO01/607040345/1148- /AUTO01

Note that the overall market declined by 10.5% compared to June 2005, but Ford dropped by only 7%, which means Ford gained market share for the month. Moreover, Ford car sales increased by 7% - the 5th increase over the last 6 months.

chuck1

"Moreover, Ford car sales increased by 7% - the 5th increase over the last 6 months."

The market is clearly shifting towards cars (i.e. more fuel efficient).

Where are Hyundai's numbers in all this?

backy

Who cares about Hyundai's numbers, in this discussion??

calhon

Where are Hyundai's numbers in all this?

They're in the chart at the link I provided, along with the numbers for other companies/brands.

chuck1

When he included Honda and Toyota, he said the domestics had a larger share. However, Hyundai, who is becoming more and more of a player wasn't included.

pdxtaurus

Well, we ended up actually paying more than invoice because we found the exact car that we wanted (base model with just the ABS and SAB). With the doc fee and so on, it was $175 more than invoice (with real fees on top of that). Still a good deal, I think (better than edmunds TMV by $150).

mschmal

Good Job.

By not having the sport package on your car, you probably depreciated it by $1,000. This package is so popular that Ford is making it standard for 2007 along with the safety package. (MSRP increases by like $200)

Basically you are one of about 10 people who bought the car without this package.

I hope you are keeping it for a long time.

Mark.

mschmal

If anyone on this board is seriously looking to buy a new Ford, Do not WAIT if you are picky about color or options.

Most Ford dealers are sitting on few if any 2006s unless you are looking for an F-Series or Explorer.

Fords 07 production is starting early this year and most 07 models will be a short model run.

The left over inventory at this point is more like what you would expect in late August, not early July.

Also most dealers are cutting back drastically the size of their inventories as interest rates go up and floor plan becomes a big expense.

Mark.

pdxtaurus

Does 10-15 years sound like a long time? Sheesh, you sound like the salesman at the first dealership I went to (the one who didn't get a sale).

I'm not the kind of guy who spends $1000 to get $600 back in a couple of years. If I was buying for resale, I wouldn't have bought a stick. Then again, if I was buying for resale, I wouldn't have bought a Ford.

The Fusion's a good value, has the features I need, and is fun to drive, even with steel wheels and a stick shift. That's why I bought it.

thebigfoist

Bought my Fusion V6 SEL 4 months ago. I'm convinced I could not have gotten a better car for the price. Have had to put up with a few snide comments from my Accord-owning friends, but that's the way it goes.

Now just looking forward to moving in a month...sick of parking under trees at my current house and having birds leave "modern art" on my nice new car.

jeffyscott

Does 10-15 years sound like a long time?

Yay, for keeping cars until they are dead :shades:.

You can't really blame the car salesman too much. They see the folks who trade in every 3 or 4 years a lot more often than those who keep a car for 10-15 years.

Oh, and BTW, the sport package is not going to be standard on the S. Ford says: 16-inch aluminum wheels, fog lamps and a premium six-disc CD player with MP3 compatibility and six speakers will be standard on 2007 SE models, here.

explorerx4

i have a focus with 2.3/5 speed which has plenty of power.
although i use it mostly for solo commuting, having 3 passengers is not unusual either, so i would like a bit bigger car.
post about how you feel the fusion drives with some passengers in it, or anything else, of course.

explorerx4

thanks for the link. the I4 appearance package looks interesting.

scape2

"Have had to put up with a few snide comments from my Accord-owning friends, but that's the way it goes"

Me too with my crowd. But the funny thing is when they get in my Fusion SEL v6 and ride in it a while, they get awfully quiet. And when I tell them the price I got it for, it really shuts them up. There are also two auto sites on the net that list an SEL V6 actually quicker than an Accord v6 EX automatic.. Granted it is only by tenths of a second... But a Ford beat a Honda in anything!! unheard of.. When I link some Honda owners to these sites.. wow!@ do they get peeved off. The superiority complex the media has pushed has really gone to some folks heads..
I agree, the Fusion is a very good vehicle for the price you pay. I sure am enjoying mine, more everyday. I really like driving it..

scape2

I would assume you mean the 2.3 Fusion with the 5spd?

mschmal

For 2007, features are added at very little MSRP increase.

Safety is standard on all Fusions. Side air bags and perimeter alarm.

Sport Pkg is standard on SE. 6 disc and alloys.

Prem Pkg will be standard on SEL.

If you want standard ABS, look at the Milan. both the MILAN base and the Premire will have standard ABS.

BTW, if you had met me, you would have baught the car with the sport pkg if that was all that I had available and you would have thought a 6 disc and alloys for another $400 was a great value.

Mark.

thegraduate

Have had to put up with a few snide comments from my Accord-owning friends, but that's the way it goes.

Sounds like some new friends are in order ...if people get that defensive over a car, they have deeper issues. I think its good that you found something that made you so happy (this coming from a member of a three-Accord household). I liked the Fusion, but the squared off interior was not what I was looking for, so I had to look elsewhere. It is a sharp car though, especially in black! :shades:

mschmal

I sell Fords. However, I would never tell my family or friends that they absolutely should buy a car.

The secret to car buying success is a process. If you follow the process you can save alot of time and money.

First, determine what you NEED in a car vs. what you want and are willing to give up if you had to.

Second, determine what you can afford. NEVER EVER stretch for a car payment when something that you like and meets your needs is in your budget. You will just end up hating the car.

Third, determine what model you like best from the cars that fit your needs and budget. This is the beauty of the internet, you can determine all this pretty quickly.

Don't get super hung up on "reliability" the fact is that almost all cars made today have acceptable reliability. Don't buy a model you don't like because of reliability.

Once you have the field narrowed down you are ready to test drive.

How to get the best price:

You will not get the best price by going to multiple dealers and haggling with multiple sales people. This will just waste alot of time and in the end you will be so tired of shopping and talking to salespeople that you will cave in.

You will not get the best price by collecting quotes from the internet and not talking to an actual person. Once you start talking to a sales person, that sales person has a STAKE in selling you a car and will work his managers to get you the best price. Always be nice to the sales person. Make that person want to get you a great deal on a car.

To get the best price, consult Edmunds TMV to get an idea what other people are paying for the car you want.

KNOW the invoice cost for the model you want with the equipment you want.

Find a dealer with a good reputation. Make sure you like the salesperson.

Make a reasonable offer based the information you have about the cost of the car to the dealer.

Always work from your offer up, not from the dealerships' offer down. Negotiate price not monthly payments! You should already have an idea of what payments would be at the interest rates you qualify for from online calculators.

Never say you have a trade until AFTER you agree on a selling price. Know what your trade is worth. TELL the salesperson how much you ideally want in the best of all worlds. Never say you hate your trade. Never say you have to get rid of it because it no longer meets your needs. Say you love your trade and that it is the best car you ever owned. The sales person will try to pump the appraiser for as much money as possible. Also, you want to negotiate from YOUR NUMBER not from what the dealer puts on the car. Remember you are selling the car to the dealer. Act like a seller not a buyer when it comes to trade. Be realistic.

Ask to see the invoice on the car you want to buy. If the date on the invoice shows the unit is more than 30 to 60 days old, you know the dealer really wants to move that unit and get if off of his floor plan.

Always have your own financing before you walk into the dealer. Force the dealer to try to beat your interest rate.

After sale products:
Be wary of after sale products. Most dealers put alot of markup on these items. Don't be afraid to ask for a discount on something you feel might be valuable to you.

Warranty. Don't buy one unless its from the manufacturer and you know that it will be honored everywhere. Also demand a discount from the first price.

Remember a good deal is one where every one wins. If you are being offered a fair deal on your first visit, take it. Remember that your time has value also.

Mark.

pdxtaurus

"BTW, if you had met me, you would have baught the car with the sport pkg if that was all that I had available and you would have thought a 6 disc and alloys for another $400 was a great value."

Maybe. We were actually close to doing so (this is the first car I've bought from a dealer, we were going somewhat impulsively because the Fusion had gone from the bottom to the top of our list after a test drive, and so I hadn't yet done my homework in terms of finding the dealer with the car that we wanted, instead going to the closest dealer with the "huge" inventory). We just hit our hard ceiling, of $18k plus trade (inclusive of applicable fees; no sales tax here).* "Crazy Carl," even with his "stack 'em deep, sell 'em cheap" slogan, wasn't willing to come down further than $18475 plus fees. Maybe you would have been. We would have bought the SE with auto, sport package, ABS and SAB at that price.

At any rate, the better outcome was reached all around. We got our car for over a grand less and the dealer was able to turn a profit on what, from what you are saying, is a highly undesirable car.

After reading your posts, I'm thinking we could have done a bit better on the price, since it is such an undesirable car.

BTW, good purchasing tips, to which I would have added "search inventory online before going to the dealership" (which we did) and "don't tell the dealer that they have the most desirable, to you, car within a 50-mile radius" (which we also did...like I said, I'm a complete novice at this).

Enjoy selling those fancy wheels (and good luck with the steelies)!

*Trade was a 1993 Taurus wagon with a busted taillight, a funny rattle in the engine compartment, and notes in the "maintenance" section of the owner's manual like "smoking from engine noted; bar's engine treatment added." Edmunds estimated the trade-in at less than $500.

pdxtaurus

I drove my carpool to work today: 3 other passengers whose combined weight I won't guess at in an open forum (really, all very attractive, fit people, but still...)

With four adults, I didn't notice any performance or handling issues, and I've got the 2.3 with the stick shift. Also, it's roomy enough. I'm 5'11", and our long-legged 6'2" guy was in the seat behind me...my seat wasn't pushed forward at all, and he had plenty of room (more than he had in my '93 Taurus with my seat pushed forward a bit). Hiproom isn't so phenominal...3 adults in the back would be a squeeze (so we won't be adding a 5th to the carpool anytime soon).

Really, for my purposes the 2.3 has plenty of power.

snakeweasel

BTW, if you had met me, you would have baught the car with the sport pkg if that was all that I had available and you would have thought a 6 disc and alloys for another $400 was a great value.

I wouldn't be so sure. Since I don't listen to CD's in my car $1 for a 6 cd changer would have been to much. Since I hold no additional value for alloys free would have been an ok deal. $400 for a 6 disk and alloys to me is a waste of $400.

explorerx4

2.3, 5 speed. yes, that's what i mean.
the 2.3 in my focus is smooth as silk. it doesn't have any idle shake, either.
i have a couple of v8's if i feel the 'need for speed'.

theman123

Wassup everybody, I know this is a little silly. But I went to check my e-mail and I stumbled across this article about America's most loved New cars on the road. It's done by MSN, and it appears that the Fusion is the most loved new Mid-sized family Sedan.

Most loved new vehicles
PS
Please post this link on the Toyota/Honda forums to piss them off. You all should know they are going to hit the roof. LOL
Just do it to be the devil. :P

jewelmick

i am coming out of a 4 year lease...early turn-in on Ford. I was set on a Focus but found out the early lease does not apply. So took my first look at a fusion, and i gotta say the more i look and drive the better i like it. my roommate has a mazda6 automatic and i like it. i actually prefer the fusion interior (tho similar) and have decided on the manual trans 4cyl for fuel economy. My 1st new car was an escort GT right out of college and i miss the manual trans and am ready for one again.
i am set to p/u my new fusion at 4:30 and will give a review at that time.
I have always driven a Ford so i admit a bias, my dad retired from Ford and i could never beat the A/Z plan price on anything else.
I have driven ('89?escort GT, Ranger ext cab, explorer xlt, focus ZTW, and freestar lim) and now the fusion. My folks had a tempo (piece of junk), thuderbird and now an explorer...The fusion I am getting is the SEL 4 cyl. manual trans. I will post after a few miles.

akirby

Colors - we need colors!

I predict you'll love it.

Karen_S

Since you're anxious to get Ford's attention, I created a new topic, Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan: Tell Ford What You Want!

I also moved a few recent posts to there.

explorerx4

sel... i like my features too. post back on your impressions.

mschmal

Alloy wheels since they are lighter than steel wheels give inherently better handling.

The enemy of good handling is called unsprung weight. This is the weight of all the components on the road side of the suspension. IE, this is the weight that has to be moved by the suspension to respond to the road.

This is where the laws of physics come in. The same car will handle better with lighter wheels because there is less resistance in the suspension. With lighter wheels the suspension will react quicker and recover quicker.

Now you if you keep your car for 10 years, wouldn't you pay $40 per year to get a better ride?

thats less than $0.10 per day. For one dime a day you get a better ride on your car....The CD changer is basically free if you compare what other companies charge for alloys.

Mark.

snakeweasel

Alloy wheels since they are lighter than steel wheels give inherently better handling.

The question is is it noticably better for everyday driving?

The answer is no.

evandro

I think that you're confusing handling with comfort. Going around turns has little to do with the weight of the wheels. However, absorbing pavement irregularities does.

On the other hand, alloy wheels are typically an inch larger than steel wheels and use lower profile tires. This helps handling quote a bit, sacrificing some comfort.

Having said that, I find it deplorable that someone pays over $20000 for a car and settles for plastic wheel covers. If one wants to be thrifty, there always used cars...

snowman89

Hello everyone...I'm picking up my new fusion on tuesday. My wife will be the primary driver, but I'll have it once in awhile. We had a 96 mystique, which despite what I have heard, ours was a great car that lacked any performance value. Our fusion will be the se 4cylinder, we opted for safety over creature comforts of the sel trim level and shelled out an annoying 1100 for antilock brakes and side impact airbags. We looked hard at the Malibu, Altima, and the new Camry. We were not impressed with the Camry. I'll post later when we have some hands on driving to report.

jeffyscott

I find it deplorable that someone pays over $20000 for a car and settles for plastic wheel covers.

I guess the Fusion buyers are safe from your wrath then, since the Fusion with plastic wheel covers would cost less than $20,000. :P

What I don't like are the "wheel covers" that try to look like alloys (such as the fusion's). Just put full wheel covers on the steelies.

mschmal

The unsold 06s will get an Extended Service Plan.

All 07s even those already sold and delivered, get 5 yr /60,000 powertrain.

pdxtaurus

"Now you if you keep your car for 10 years, wouldn't you pay $40 per year to get a better ride? thats less than $0.10 per day."

I've never noticed a better ride with alloy wheels and I've driven the Fusion with both. Maybe it's the way I drive. So THAT'S not a better value to me.

One could also say that because alloy rims are a bit lighter, they should improve mileage and brake life by a tiny bit. I dunno if it's by enough to justify the extra dime a day. I think I'd rather save that dime and buy a cup of coffee at the end of the week.

The other trade-off (besides cost) is that steel rims are more durable than alloy wheels. Given the nature of owning a car for the duration of its useful life, that represents a better value to me.

Honestly, I wouldn't pay more for steel wheels. But yes, I understand why alloys are popular, and yes, I still view them as adding zero value for me.

As for the 6 CD changer...it's a nice thing to have circa 2000, but with digital music players being so popular and CD sales falling, it'll seem like a cassette deck in a few years. Then again, some people like it and the components are so relatively inexpensive that there's no reason not to put it in. What bugs me is the lack of an imput jack for an mp3 player (unless I just missed it). I'd pay for an imput jack for my mp3 player (useful to me), not for a 6 CD changer (not so much).

So do you still think you would have sold me the car with the sport package?

jshtick

haha, we might get a little pissed off at the article. But you'd be probably be pissed off more once the ford fusion pos makes a new home in the mechanic workshop after hitting 50K miles or so.