I plan on getting the extended cab mainly because I like the idea of having some dry storage space that can be locked. The bigger the cab, the more storage space you have. I'm not sure how safe it is to sit in the back of the extended cab and never have heard any horror stories or have seen any write up about them.
Volfy, I see your points on the interior issue, although, I'm still not sure I agree. But that's ok, I enjoy the feedback. I'm going to have to be in both trucks some more to make a decision. I still have quite some time before I buy. Besides, interior is obviouisly not going to be THE determining factor of what I buy, but I do enjoy a nice interior, truck or car.
Other factors include towing capacity since I will be towing a small fishing boat and possibly a pop-up camper. Both trucks with the V6 and auto trans. can pull 5,000 lbs. So lets just say they are equal there. Gas mileage is similar. Both trucks are pleasing to the eye on the outside as far as I'm concerned, but IMO the Ranger has a slightly more rugged look which I like. On the other hand, the Frontier has a more attractive 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty.
Hmmmmm.......Decisions, decisions. I guess I'm just gonna have to test drive some more. Poor me huh? Heck, I'll love every minute of it......and just for fun, I'll be test driving the S-10 and Tacoma too...why not, right?
Hey Skip; good idea, take your time there are alot of good choices out there, if you are looking at the V6 auto Frontier, I am assuming you want the desert runner, I am thinking about upgrading mine to a desert runner too. Have you seen the interior on the SE desert runner? Very Nice. Leather wrapped steering wheel, nicer cloth, two tone dash, plus you can get it without getting all of the extra stuff like a sunroof if you don't want it. ALso I always recommend looking at maintenance and ownership costs. Check out intellichoice.com for more info. Good luck!
Yes, test drive, its free. cncman, in our last square off you brought up resale value. Better go to Kelly Blue book and punch numbers. The Ranger and Nissan are pretty much equal when optioned the same. I did a test with my 98 Ranger loaded, vs a 98 Nissan loaded. Granted the 98 Nissan doesn't offer a V6. The Ford resale came in about $700 higher but this is of course due to the V6 I believe. Also, read the Edmunds review of the Nissan Crew cab. Nissan better enjoy being the only one to have a crew cab now. Ford and Dodge are just around the corner with their own. And when people start to realize, hey this high tech V6 sucks, no HP and torque, Nissan will have even a harder time.
Vince, the 4.0 of the Ranger puts out 160 Hp. The Frontier 3.3 puts out 170 Hp. The Ranger 4.0 puts out 225 lbs./ft. tourqe and the Frontier 3.3 a little less at 200 lbs./ft. However, the Frontier delivers 90% of it's tourque at 1500 rpms. I'm not sure where the Ranger delivers most of it's tourque, but it doesn't sound like the Frontier has a weak engine to me. Besides, they both tow 5,000 lbs. when mated to the automatic.
I love the car buying process also. I don't understand why so many people dread dealing with the salespeople and the ordeal of bargaining. To me, the car buyer is the one with the bucks and, as such, should feel completely in control of the situation. As long as you do your home work on invoices and incentives, you shouldn't feel like you might be taken advantage of. Anyways, I digress.
Drive all trucks and keep an open mind. There is a truck out there with your name on it, and it may or may not be be the one everybody else drives. When I was shopping, I even considered full-size trucks like the F-150 and Dodge Ram and test drove 'em all. I think the more you look around, the more satisfied and assured you'll be once you do buy it.
And then maybe, just maybe, you wouldn't come back here and argue till kingdom come just to justify your choice. ;-D
Just kidding. Have fun shopping, and do let us know which one you choose.
skipd, please read the Nissan CC reveiw at Edmunds. They even say the V6 seems to sputter out too quick in the torque range. And another point. 25ft/lbs of torque is a nice size difference when you are pulling or hauling a boat. And, yes you named it the 5000lb towing is only on the AUTOMATIC Nissan Frontier.
I have the option on a 98 Frontier XE (std cab, 5spd, appearance pkg and alloy wheels only) with 43,000 miles for $7500. It is a repo from the bank.
But then today I found a 94 loaded SE V6 Kingcab(minus auto trans.) with 104,000 miles for $6500. What is the better deal? The 94 just had the belt replaced and it is in very good condition and it is being sold by the original owner.
I like the looks of the 98 but the conv. of the 94 king cab and V6 makes this a hard decision.
Oh come on cncman, anyone can go to Kelly Blue Book and see for themselves that Nissan does NOT have higher resale. Nice try though.
Also, Fords debut of the Explorer Sport Trac is going to be January 2000. It is going to have a 206hp/245ft/lbs of torque single overhead cam V6! More room, more power, more options, more standard options, more than the puny, underpowered 170hp/200ft/lbs of torque 3.3 of Nissans. Better get to selling these crew cabs quick to those who don't know this is coming. And I am sure you won't tell your customers Ford has a MUCH more superior Crew Cab on the way in January. The Ranger will also have this engine sometime in summer of 2000. Then who will really stomp who? Enjoy your underpowered high tech 3.3!
Cncman, took a quick hop over to Kelly Blue Book. Took a Ranger XLT Super cab sportside 4x4 3.0 V6 and loaded it down with all options I have. (Remember I have the 4.0) Kelly Blue Book only offers the 2.4 not the 3.3 in its 1998 Frontier model line up. So I figured I better drop down an engine to be somewhat comparable. Ford doesn't offer a 4cyl, hasn't for sometime in its Ranger 4x4's. Why does Nissan? And took a Nissan King Cab XE and equipped it equally. (Except Nissan doesn't offer a sportside box). These are RETAIL Kelly blue book numbers. TRADEIN numbers are lower, but even at trade in the Ranger is still higher. Nissan - $20,630 Ford - $22,050 (With the 4.0 its $22,550).
Vince; of course the ford you compare to the Nissan is more money, it's a V6 vs a four cylinder! also you pay more for the ford up front, even in KBB, you will see that the Nissan holds a better percentage of it's value that's what is important, above you can see that the Nissan held it's value 7% better the first year and 11% better the second than the ford, so what are you talking about? In the example above you lost $3,150 from 98 to 96 in the ford and $1600 in the Nissan. How can you sit here and tell us ford has a higher resale????
I am glad to see Ford following Nissan's lead again, but sorry Vince, by that time, Nissan will have the supercharged 210 Hp V-6 in the crew cab, looks like ford looses again, also folks will still be interested in quality and the sport trac is going to be much higher priced than the crew cab from what I hear, so nothing to worry about there. Also isn't it going to have the small square bed? Howcome it was a terrible idea when Nissan did it and now the ford comes out with their version and you don't mention a thing about it, sure is convenient Vince. Yes that sport trac sounds WAY superior to the Nissan, lower quality, less power, higher price, less warranty, whew sign me up for one! Man Vince, when you lost the last argument and went away mad, I thought you might have been a little bit more prepared when you came back, oh well what do they say about a battle of the wits and being unarmed? PS a friend of mine may be interested in that 125hp 4cylinder ranger, do you know where he could get one at?
Cncman, keep a dancin. The sport Trac will not be less quality its one of your sales gimmicks. And once again you leave out the 210HP comes from a supercharger add-on. Wonder what would happen if Ford decided to supercharge its V6? Can we say 240HP possibly?? And once agiain you fail to quote the most important thing on a truck, TORQUE! The Sport Trac will have enough room to sit TWO ADULTS comfortably in the rear seats. Can't say that for Nissan. As for resale. There is a $2,600 dollar difference between a 1998 Ford and a 1998 Nissan like equipped. Granted I put in the 3.0 because KBB doesn't offer that option. But, the 3.0 doesn't cost $2,600 dollars! Lets say a $500 dollar taken off for the 3.0. That sill leaves a $2,100 dollar difference between a LIKE OPTIONED 1998 Ford Ranger and A LIKE OPTIONED 1998 Nissan as per Kelly Blue Book. Like I said, anyone can go and do this at Kelly Blue Book and see for themselves. As for your Frontier costing less than a Ranger. Not any longer in the Northwest Region. They are dead equal, maybe a $200 difference in some adds I have seen. Nissans marketing tactic of being less expensive at first introduction of the Frontier is over.
Vince; how can you expect anyone to take you seriously? you keep coming back here with the same old ungrounded arguments, don't read, mess up information etc.? Maybe you could start your own topic where you are the only one there. You said I did not mention the frontier will be supercharged, you misread my post above again. I clearly said "supercharged 210 hp V6" If you can't get this right, how can we believe you can get anything right? And what's wrong with a supercharger? If ford put it out you would tell us it is the greatest thing! So far as low quality, ford is famous for that, even the carpoint data you gave us to show how fantastic the ranger was rated the Nissan higher in reliability, but I guess you think I wrote carpoint too as one of my tricks. YOu can't show me one source that shows the ranger is higher quality than the Nissan. How many times has the ranger won JD power's highest in initial quality award?
Vince you have no credibility here, you consistently waltz in, bring up old arguments you can't support, manipulate or create figures, and when someone shows how wrong you are, you run and hide for a week or two and then start doing the same thing again without answering to what you said before how can you expect anyone to take you seriously? BTW I thought the last time you got whipped you said you were done with this debate.
This last paragraph sounds like someone else I know? could this be you? Face it the 3.3 is a joke. Why does Nissan have to ADD a supercharger in order to achieve HP that normally aspirated engines from FORD/TOYOTA/CHEVY already achieve?? High Tech, yeah right. The 2.4 is a joke also in the Nissan 4x4 Frontier. No torque once again. Keep manipulating your numbers also. But I'm sure that is your job as a salesperson. And be sure to tell anyone who shops for a Frontier, its the lowest in its class for Torque. I'm sure you'll tell folks that right? Nissan has quite a ways to go to catch up with the leader in light trucks, FORD.
Great Vince, you have now progressed from a simple annoyance that as no idea what he's talking about into a full fledged paranoid delusional, get help man! I guess someone else out there realizes you have no clue either.
"normally aspirated engines from ford/toyota chevy already achieve" What are you talking about VInce? THe supercharged V6 frontier will have 210hp, ford now has at most 160hp, chevy 190 and toyota 190. Where are you getting your delusional info from?
The only way for Nissan to "catch up" to Ford would be to shorten the warranty, raise the price, make you pay for every little extra, lower the quality of materials, increase operating costs, redesign the engines to 100 year old tractor technology shrink the bed and make it ride like a skate board! Man Ford is really such a leader, that's why Nissan beat them to the punch 40 years ago with the compact truck, now the crew cab and the Xterra, (Ford is following Nissan's lead again with their new escape SUV) Vince why don't you at least try to do some research before you open your mouth, I am getting tired of having to constantly correct you.
Your not listening cncman, TORQUE is what a truck needs. You fail to mention that the 4.0 Ford has now puts out 225ft/lbs of TORQUE compared to the 200 of your high tech 3.3. Also there is only a 10HP difference between the 3.3 and 4.0 stock. The new V6 Ford has is a 206HP, now listen, 245ft/lbs of TORQUE. No supercharger needed. Toyota 190HP 220ft/lbs of torque - no supercharger needed Chevy S10 190HP 240ft/lbs of TORQUE - no supercharger needed. Get it, other manufactures don't need superchargers to get the HP and Torque form their engines. This New V6 will be available in the Ranger sometime in summer 2000. It will once again have 206hp and 245ft/lbs of TORQUE. TORQUE, somthing Nissan severly lacks. The price advantage is over also that Frontier held its first year of production. The Frontiers has been around for about 3 years now is it? Sure don't see those Ranger sales giving way to Nissan Frontier sales. The consumer rules!
Vince; Now you can't even get what you said before right. you clearly said in post #68 "Why does Nissan have to add a supercharger in order to achieve HP that normally aspirated engines from FORD/CHEVY/TOYOTA already achieve?" You said horsepower! So tell me which of these already get 210HP???????
And you are wrong again about lowest torque in a V6 that goes to the ranger 3.0 V6 with 192 ft/lbs, And why does ford make you pay extra for the decent engine? plus all of the extra towing packages. And if that extra 25 ft/lbs of torque in the most expensive ranger V6 was so great, then why doesn't it pull more than the Nissan even after you add all of the towing options? Sure sounds great to me!
Vince I thought at least maybe you could get one thing right, but even with the pricing here from edmunds you can't show the facts, I guess I will have to help you out again.
SO what the heck are you talking about, there is at least $1,000 price advantage for the Nissan and this is before you add the towing packages that you have to pay for on the ranger to get the same amount of towing Nissan gives you from the start! And if anyone wants to hear the truth about Vince's fantasticly reliable 4.0l V6, check out topic 688 here, blown engines, noises, won't start. Ford, quality is job NONE!
Please Vince before you post and embarrass yourself again, see if there is a 10 year old child in your neighborhood that can show you how to form an argument and do some research,
Spoken like a salesman! Like I said in my part of the country the Price advantage that Nissan once held is gone. I believe it was a marketing gimmick to get folks to take a look at an incredibly ugly truck. Still don't see many of them around where I live. All I see are your stripped down 2door 2wd versions, sometimes in a kingcab. ONCE I saw a Nissan that had colorcoded bumpers/grill. ONCE, that is. Do you know how many Rangers Sports I have seen. Now your not reading my posts. This all started with the 206HP V6 soon to arrive in the Ranger and will be available in the new 4door Sportrac. In order for Nissan to compete they have to supercharge their high tech 3.3 V6 to even compete in this segement. And you always seem to forget the most important aspect of a truck, let me spell it out again T O R Q U E. Somthing you will never bring up in a sales transaction I am sure. There are plenty of posts around about squeaks, rattles, a/c problems with Frontiers my friend. And you fail to mention, on a Ford 4x4 the 3.0 is the BASE engine. Not like a wimpy 2.4 that Nissan still puts in their 4x4's. And what most folks don't know is the 3.0 can be had for about $500 more than the 2.5. Negligable when buying a 12-15K truck. Keep reachin cncman. When the new V6 comes out it will have a standard HP of 206 and torque of 240ft/lbs. Can't say that about ANY Nissan engines now can we? Keep bringing up the quality, spoken like a true salesman still back in the 80's wanting the public to believe Ford/GM/Dodge are inferior products. I have already given you multiple sites to rebute your claims of quality.
Where are these sites speaking about the Frontier's quality, I would like to see them for my own info. in an attempt to make a well informed choice here.
Vince; please tell me in what part of the country Nissan has more expensive MSRP's?, the prices are the same everywhere you go. Nissan has the price advantage everywhere in the US, if you have something different, please share it with us. Or at least give us some information on what your outrageous claims are based on.
Again, you start talking about torque because you were talking about HP and got shut down, you brought up HP not me, how many times do you need me to repost your ravings? And I always bring up torque in my sales presentations, most folks buy the four cylinder trucks, which you always ignore the fact that the ranger has less torque there too. and the 3.3l V6 from Nissan has 180ft/lbs of torque at 1500 RPM, which is more than the 4.0l ranger, so the Nissan has more usable torque where you need it for pulling at lower RPM's.
OK Vince let's assume that your argument that the most important thing in a truck is torque is a valid argument, why then did you not buy the S-10? it has 240 ft/lbs of torque, can't you follow the same advice you keep trying to give to everyone here? The next time someone asks you which truck they should buy I am sure that you will tell them the S-10 right? and please, please don't ignore this one, I really want to hear your answer. Vince how many more posts do you have in you before you run and hide like last time? I may just wait this one out.
Don't worry skip every site that Vince gives you, will rate the Nissan higher in quality.
ALso check out intellichoice.com, where you can see the lower operating costs of the frontier, less maintenance, repairs insurance, resale value etc.
For starter look into post 920, some airconditioner problems. Also my co-worker with his Frontier is having shifting problems. I have mentioned him in previous posts. His Frontier is still the ONLY one in the parking lot of a company that employes over 1200 people. skipd, you will have to search the net as I did, www.carpoint.msn.com, auto.com, Popular mehanics all have ownership reliability data. Cncman continues to point to areas that support his salesperson views, but hey, that his job. As you mentioned in previous posts, the Ranger is better looking, stands nicer, has more room in the SC version and you can actually use the jump seats for small folks or adults on a short trip. Test drive, Test drive, Test drive. Nissan has an inferior 3.3 V6 and cncman knows this. As I have asked him why Nissan still puts the 2.4 in its 4x4? Read any offroad mag and its weak, can't pull itself with A/C going at that. Ford doesn't put a 4cyl into its 4x4's, wonder why?? Better sell quick cncman, the new V6 is just around the corner. Better yet the Sport Trac is due in January. Can't wait to see the shoot out. And, without a supercharger to add the needed HP/Torque that Nissan needs to compete. And about the "usable" torque, what gears are we talking about? 3.73, 4.10...?
Vince the Nissan complaints were few and far between and included, things like mine doesn't blow as cool as I think it should, not that it went out, there were 0 powertrain complaints or problems, now look at the Ford, you here things like, this is the second engine ford put in my ranger and it is still not right, etc. one person even said his ranger drove him to look at a frontier for better reliability, none of the nissan owners said this.
I love how you keep bringing up carpoint, anyone can see that it rates Nissan higher in reliability, just like I said, Vince can't show one site that shows higher reliability for the ranger, that's because it isn't more reliable than the nissan. and yes everyone knows I am a Nissan salesman, that's no secret, but I put my money down for the frontier, so I am speaking as an owner, and you can't point to one thing that I have said that isn't true, whereas Vince has a ford and can't even sell anyone here on it, and edmunds would need more band width for me to post vince's inconsistencies and "mistakes"
And no, I don't know Nissan has an inferior V6, the only advantage you can point out is that you can buy 25 ft/lbs more torque in the ranger, the Nissan engine is still smoother, less maintenance better reliability record, sohc vs ohv, better low end torque usage etc. and does the same work as the ranger, I don't see how you equate this with inferior.
The reason ford doesn't put a four cylinder in the 4x4's is becuase the ranger four cylinder can't even move the 4x2! Yes if I was getting a 4x4 I would not get the four cylinder, We don't even stock them, so what? the V6 frontier still costs less than the V6 ranger, and I noticed you haven't been able to come up with any info to support your claim to the contrary VInce, why not?
And while we are at it, when are you going to answer the question why you did not buy the S-10, according to you the only thing that matters is torque, the S-10 has the most, so why aren't you in here praising the S-10?
ANd actually I am selling quick, with all of the new products built on the "inferior" V6 frontier 4x4 platform like the Xterra and crew cab, I have been rather busy, sure there will be more competition when ford follows Nissan and comes out with their version of the crew cab and Xterra, but Nissan is already one step ahead,
Good news Vince, I heard ford is starting to make rear window defrosters standard on fords now, so your hands won't get cold when youre pushing them!
Well Vince; I looked at three days newspapers in the Houston area, Most of the Ford dealers here advertise the F150's, I saw no ads for 4x4's for either Nissan or ford, I saw, 2000 Xe reg cab Nissan's for 9875 and 1999 & 2000 XLT reg cab 5 spds for 11,999, x-cab frontiers 4 cyl, 5 spd, 4x2 for 11,999, and the ranger XLT 4x2 4 cyl 5spd for 13,999. SO I guess in your area they are heavily discounting the rangers.
As usuall, this all comes down to preference, every truck out there has advantages over the others in one way or another, some have better warranty, more standard features, bigger bed, more size more torque, etc. It just depends on how you rank the list of advantages, for me, I rated the frontier's larger bed better warranty, comfortable ride, lower price and operating costs and Hp over anything else. For you it was your experience with ford and that you can buy more torque, so as long as everyone knows the advantages each truck has when they are shopping and can rate those advantages according to their own preference, they end up making the best decision for themselves.
After reading your ongoing debate, I just have a couple of things that I wanted say:
(1) A 4-cylinder in a truck is ridiculous. To put a 4-cylinder in a 4WD truck is pure insanity. To tow (one of a real truck's primary duties) with a 4-cylinder is pure stupidity.
(2) If you cannot get a comparably equipped Ranger for a few thousand less than a Nissan, you should be asking someone to help you look for a truck. I bought a '98 Ranger XLT 4WD 4.0L-V6 5-speed automatic off-road package power everything (loaded with every option except super-cab) for $18,500 a little over a year ago. This includes over 3 grand in incentives (rebates, 4x4 value package, college grad, special financing). Nothing else was within $1,000 comparably equipped. I can't remember the price difference on the Frontier, but it was substantial. The only incentive I have ever seen Nissan offer is special financing (i was looking at Altimas for my wife until i found i could easily get something better for much less $$$). I'm not saying it's never happened, but I have never seen Nissan offer cash back. The salesman I talked to said they offer only special financing as an incentive. The other factor in prices are the amount and proximity of dealerships. I made a phone call and with no haggling bought the Ranger for dealer invoice. Try doing that at a Nissan dealership.
(3) The Ford 3.0L is really more of a comparable engine to the Nissan 3.3L (3.0 = 152hp 192ft/lbs. 3.3 = 170hp 200ft/lbs). While you the hp numbers are skewed towards the Nissan, their performance figures are almost identical. The 4.0 does not make a drastic improvement in performance numbers as one would think from the extra liter of displacement. It's tuned to produce lots of torque at very low revs, which makes it suitable for "truck" duties, towing, off-road, and even plowing. The 3 liter engines (and 4 cylinders too) in each the Ford and Nissan are essentially "car" engines.
(4) Just one more thing. If you want to compare retail prices, you need to compare an Frontier SE (not an XE) with a Ranger XLT for about the same equipment level.
About the two most comparable models would be the Nissan SE Crew Cab 4wd and the Ranger XLT Supercab 4wd. It's the 3.0 vs the 3.3, both with manuals. The only difference on standard equipment is the tilt wheel, which comes standard on the Nissan.
MSRP prices: Nissan - $21,710 Ford - $20,225 Invoice: Nissan - $19,785 Ford - $18,207
I included the destination charges in each truck's price, and the information is from www.carpoint.com.
If you look at the 4-cylinder no frills XE vs. XL (exact same options, which is basically nothing) they're less than $100 different in both retail and invoice prices. But, Nissan adds a tach and has more ponies than the Ford.
Sorry about all of the rambling. I just wanted to throw in some clarifications that have been bothering me while I've been reading this string.
Its been a while since I visited this room. Just no good debating going on here. In my region (Northwest) the Frontier price advantage is gone. I have looked at the Saturday/Sunday ads for the last 4 weeks and have yet to see any price advantage for the Frontier in any level or model. I just don't see very many of them around here either. I do see an occasional 2WD kingcab or just plain 2wd reg cab but not many 4x4 XE/SE V6's. Ford/Toyota pretty much have this market wrapped up.
Owned both, Nissan was purchased used w/34K. Put over 140k on it trouble free. Bought a 93 ranger solenoid fell off the starter within 5K. I put it back on and went to the dealer so that they could check it out I only had 2 of the three screws needed. Dealer couldn't give a [non-permissible content removed] told me it was not covered. Called ford although the nice lady showed some empathy for my problems I was on my own, she told me to find another dealer. Also water pump failed at 15k and ABS failed at 60K. Its time to find another dealer I'm send my $ to the [non-permissible content removed].
Just over a year ago I was debating between owning a Ford Ranger or a Frontier. The only reason I wanted to buy the Ranger was because it was American. I wasn't looking for an offroading or towing truck. I was just looking for a pickup that could haul light loads and stand the abuse of the uneven Houston roadways.
Then it came down to price. Frontier salespeople dealt with me and sold me a 4 cylinder XE for around 12,000. Ford salespeople were firm at around 15,000 for a 4 cylinder.
So I thought... man, I'm just gonna drive this truck everyday to work and run it over potholes and street bumps... might as well choose the cheaper truck to beat up.
It's been more than a year now, and yes, I've never slowed down for speedbumps, drive it 75-80 mph on our Texas freeways 5 days a week... this truck hasn't cried on me yet. But of course, I do take it for scheduled maintenance.
I was debating about buying a 4 cyl. Ranger or an S10, after selling my 95 Firebird (see topic#1299 for the whole story). Well, after test driving both trucks, the decision was made. The Ranger drove smoother with a nicer ride and better handling, not to mention how it picked up speed when I asked it to. I am sorry to say however that there may be a good chance that by the time I sell my "Bird" that this particular truck might be gone and that would be disappointing. It is Bright Red with the features I want at this time: automatic, CD player, sliding rear window, no power windows, no keyless entry...I don't really need them. I really like how the flairside bed sets the whole truck off. One Sunday Afternoon a couple of weeks ago the sticker I found in the truck listed a price of $16,080. The Sunday before I drove it what did I see but a "Sale" tage hanging on the rear view mirror which read: Was: $17,XXX Is:$13,144...they're really offering a deal, huh? A courier driver that picks up from the print shop I work at (who drives a Ranger extended cab) said that I should offer the salesman $11,500 and see what happens. What do you think. This all hinges on if I can sell my Bird and get what I'm asking or close to it (I need $2500-$3000) to make a good down payment to keep my payments low and help pay the taxes. Let me know what you think? wannaranger:)
Cncman if you are still in here I have some bad news for Nissan V6's. As you know I own a 4.0 5spd Ranger. Mods are the K&N air system. I didn't have the chip in at the time of this incident. On my way home from work I came across a Frontier V6 XE 4x4. Just happened we were were both at the stoplight at the same time. Well, this guy was obviously wanting to race. So off we went. And I hate to tell you, I beat the Fronter hands down, no question by at least 1/2 truck length 2x at that!. So the extra 10HP is a joke when comparing engines. Torque is where its at! 200 for Frontier/225 for Ranger!
While I do not own a new Frontier, I still have my 85 Nissan truck. Today it turned over on 185,000 miles. The truck still has original water pump, fuel pump, radiator, etc. I have replaced belts, tires, mufflers etc. on it over the years but I have to tell you, if the new Frontiers are as reliable, I plan on getting one when my old one reaches 200,000 miles. This truck has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned.
I've been devoted to the Mazda/Ford nameplate for 16 years. I've owned GLC's, B2200, '89 B2600i 4x4 (fun truck but scary at freeway speeds), Escort (I don't know what I was thinking), F150, and (2) '94 B3000's (5 sp. and auto.). Mazda messed up when the trucks went 'Ranger'. The B3000 is an o.k. truck, but you lose a lot in power with the auto. I replaced the '94 auto. B3000 with a 2000 Frontier Desert Runner XE 5 sp. This truck has better power and reminds me more of the B2600i I had without the scary handling at speed. I got my money's worth out of the Maz (128K at tradein) but I won't miss it.
i own a 99 4x4 se frontier with every option available. it is the only new vehicle i have ever purchased where a visit back to the dealer was not necessary other than normal maint. i have owned several fords and dodges and gm cars and trucks. they were ok but each one had to go back for some mechanical or manufacturing defect within the first year. they were ok after that until about 50k miles which was when the regular visits to the dealers would begin. i had researched nissan in mag.s and over the net as ellas speaking with several friends who have owned them for years and never had anyone complain in terms of reliability or dealer service. i also to be fair spoke with friends who have rangers and toyotas and most really liked there vehicles, however when pressed they admitted (ranger owners) they had some mechanical failures some were minor some not so minor. for my money reliability is job 1 and that slogan belongs to the japanese manufacturers they are way ahead in terms of design and cost of ownership. this vince character pushes his rangers brags about having one for 90k miles and buys another one that to me is not the advertising i would want if i were ford if he had said 190k miles that would be much more impressive assuming no problems in between but we all know that is impossible. be happy
Your just mad because the Frontier is severely underpowered. Gotta like that 170HP/200ftlbs of torque huh? Even the 4.0 of the Ranger out torques this high tech 3.3 by 25ft/lbs of torque! You can slam me all you want but the Ranger is by far a superior truck to the Frontier. Frontier sales are flat my friend, Flat, flat, flat. We all have reliability stories, check the net plenty of Rangers reach 100, 200, even 300K! Mine went 96K with NOT ONE PROBLEM. And you need to read a little farther into the Frontier bud, lets see, air conditioner problems, transmission problems, electrical problems, all posted right here at Edmonds! LOL.
no i'm not mad about anything. you remind me of the child who thinks that if he yells louder and keeps repeating something though it is not true it some how becomes truth. crew cab and xterra sales are not flat, desert runner sales are not flat.another example of your spewing misinformation. why don't you back off chill a little and then research what you want to say. you have missed the point of what we were trying to say. there is a difference between good and better. ranger is a good truck no doubt, but the facts and data compiled from owners clearly shows frontier superior in terms of reliability engineering, coo, ride, you have a good truck just be happy with it without having to have everyone else agree with you to substantiate your opinion.
Give me the links to where it says the Frontier is better? Also why hasn't the Frontier even shown up in the top 30? for car and truck sales. The Xterra is not a Frontier. Its a fad for right now. It has an extremely weak 3.3 its plastered all over every review@!. The Xterra is a nice poor mans sportute, kind of like the Porche 914. The Desert Runner?? LOL, please. Show me where sales are skyrocketing? I just don't see very many Frontiers where I live, Mostly Ranger, Tacoma's. You call me a screaming baby why? The 4door is also a joke on the Frontier there is NO back seat room, none. Your better off getting an Xterra. I will give you the engine/torque specs for your beloved Frontier 2.4 is 143HP/150ftlbs torque, the 3.3 is 170HP and 200ft/lbs of torque. The Ranger 3.0 is 150HP and 192ft/lbs of torque, the 4.0 is 160HP and 225ft/lbs of torque@! TORQUE, what real truck owners are after.
I just started a new "clubhouse" on Yahoo. Follow this link to get there. You have to register with Yahoo to use it, but it comes with all kinds of nice features. I have already started a list of links to web sites.
Maybe the lack of a good debate here is an indication that most Frontier owners don't give a rat's hindquarters which truck is 1/10th second faster. As long as it serves the owners' need well day in and day out without too much hassle, who cares what other brand truck owners think anyway.
I'm just glad that there are still some real compact truck choices out there. Sad would be the day that every manufacturer sells the same variant of the same basic truck - even if it is the best one.
Vince8,
I don't really have any beef with your strong opinions. Kinda glad to see you're so brand-loyal and passionate about your ride. If you're so blood thirsty for a fight all the time though, why not take up kick-boxing or something to put that energy to good use. :-)
How did you know? I do take kick boxing! Kidding of course. Fact is Nissan missed the boat. While every other manufacture puts out trucks that have V6's that have 220+ ft/lbs of torque, Nissan chose to be dead last at 200, have a smaller king cab, have a funky design. I liked the old design don't get me wrong. It had a nice stance, and aggressive look when optioned correctly. I just don't see very many around where I live. Tacoma's and Rangers are what I see most of the time.
Glad to see you have a good sense of humor. I actually agree with you about the shortcomings of Nissan powerplant performance compared to the others.
I can't comment on the Ranger since I haven't owned one, but I much prefered the 2.4L DOHC/5sp in my 96 Tacoma - peppier, freer revving, better matched gear raios. The very similar 2.4L DOHC/5sp in the Frontier just seem like it's "detuned" in comparison. Some of this difference is due to the heavier weight of the Frontier, but I knew this full well before I made the switch. I liked the slightly bigger size and the better equipment for the same money, and I was willing to sacrifice a little oomph for them. Goes to show what's important is different from truck owner to truck owner.
Also, what's popular is somewhat geographical. I see more S-10s and Nissans here than I do Rangers and Tacomas. I've been told that Texas is Ford country and Oklahoma is Chevy country and it certainly seems the case, but I don't know that for a fact. I don't dispute the fact that Ranger is still #1 in sales volume overall though.
To be honest the Nissan 2.4 is a great engine, very well made and built to last well over 100k when properly maintained. They use an actual timing chain rather than a band. They have been improving this little bugger for years now. The 2.4 has been used in some of Nissans cars also over the years. And I'll be hones once agian. It kicks butt all over the Ford 2.5! Ford should be able to do better in their 4cyl arena with the deep pockets they have. I have been told they build the 4cyl for CAFE reasons only. I do however see quite a few of the pre Frontier Nissans on the road.
I own a 98 Frontier XE 4x4 regular cab that currently has 28000 miles on it. It has been a great truck, which is exactly what I expected from Nissan. I owned a 92 regular cab 2WD Nissan and abused it heavily and it never had a problem. This idea of "lasting to over 100k when properly maintained," it's more like lasting well into 200k with basic maintenance(oil change, brakes, tires, timing chain...) As far as the Ford vs Nissan or Domestic vs Import, Imports have proven reliability records much higher than the domestics. I am a mechanical engineer and engineering is rated as follows: (1) German, (2) Japanese, (3) American. With the extensive research I've done in the automotive world I've found nothing to dispute this. Toyotas and Nissans to me are identical in everything but price. You can get an identically equipped Frontier for 10-15% cheaper than a Tacoma. Toyota has attempted to move into a "luxury" car market and it can be seen in their sticker prices. I love my 4x4 Frontier, It performs well in our Louisiana Mud and cleans up very well. It is a very attractive truck to me, and a slightly larger one than Tacoma. As far as the "Ford sells more Rangers" argument, well, if anyone hasn't figured out yet, Ford doesn't ever claim to build a better vehicle, they just claim to sell more vehicles. Fords whole marketing scheme is VOLUME. Nissan went through an admitted lull with its design teams and now with new designers they are doing exceptionally well with the XTERRA, FRONTIER, AND MAXIMA. A good example of reliability is that Nissan and Toyota offer a 5 year, 60000 mile powertrain warranty. Ford and Chevy only offer 3/36. Hmmmmm, wonder why that is? Maybe because even they do not expect their vehicles to last as long as Nissan or Toyota. Personally, no, you cannot get big power or size from an import truck. But if you are on a budget and need a cheaper, more reliable truck, get an import. If you have money for big repairs, or plan to trade your truck in at 80000 miles or less on the odometer, get the big Chevy, Ford, or Dodge.
There are other engineers that would disagree with you, me for one. American engineering is not number 3 in the world when it comes to automotive engineering. Better do a bit more research, along with reading some of the complaints of the Frontier just here at Edmunds alone, not including other sites around the internet. We all have stories of reliability to tell. Fact is the Frontier styling isn't going over too well, it shows in sales figures. Come into the new millenium and out of the 70's and 80's.
Me for two. I'm a mechanical engineers as well, and I disagree with the Germans being numba one.
I've being a VW nut for a long time - still am actually, just don't care to be associated with the trendy NB love-in crowd that have flooded the VW showrooms lately. I've long admired the Germans for their over-engineering and unique methodology for solving problems with unconventional, often ingenious and mold-breaking, thinking. The Teutons, however, are not alone in their innovativeness and propensity to learn and improve. Neither is der Faterland devoid of automotive f*ckups.
The automobiles of various origins are today more alike than they are different. Some variance in engineering philosophy and design paradigm still exist, which do help target different demographics to a certain degree. These differences, however, are more style than substance and in no easy way place one nation technically superior above another categorically.
Interesting, suddenly everyone is an engineer....Anyway, as far as the sales figures comment, NISSAN DOES NOT SELL AS MANY TRUCKS AS FORD...., when will you get off this sales thing, VINCE8???? And what "sales figures" are you quoting anyway, CITE YOUR SOURCES, PLEASE. I like the styling of my truck, and many others agree with me. Also, my cab is bigger, bed is deeper, etc. than a comparable Ranger. My 4 cylinder has 142 hp, how much does the Ranger have???? RESEARCH, MY FRIEND. According to KBB.com, the 3.0L Ranger, 4WD has 152 hp. My truck, with a 4CYL has 143, that's a 6% deficit, hmmm... I see neither of you had anything to say about the warranty difference. And volfy, it's obvious you were trying to use "big words" to make yourself sound intelligent in this subject...At first I thought you might be a liberal arts person, haha. And, by the way, I said that Germany was "number" one, not "numba" one, and I'll stand behind that argument any day. Ever heard of BMW???? They are probably the most successful auto manufacturer on this planet!
My Profile hasn't changed since the day I signed up (oops, let me correct that, I did buy a couple of new cars in the past year). I have a BS in Mechanical Engieering and a MS in Computer Science. You used your ME credentials to bolster your opinion on the engineering competence ranking, and I quote:
"I am a mechanical engineer and engineering is rated as follows: (1) German, (2) Japanese, (3) American. With the extensive research I've done in the automotive world I've found nothing to dispute this."
I simply replied that, as a fellow ME, I disagree. Then I gave my opinion, which you are free to agree or disagree. Questioning my credentials was frankly rather unbecoming.
I write what I think - straight and true. If you have any trouble reading or comprehending my posts, feel free to enlighten me of my shortcomings. Like Mozart told the Emperor(?), if you gonna complain about too many notes, explain exactly which notes are excessive. No doubt you can do better than bitching about my silly word play on Numba One.
BTW, BMW being the most successful auto manufacturer on this planet? Again you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but you will likely find few raised hands on that vote.
scotfro, you are lost my son. HP means squat in a truck, real truck owners look for TORQUE. 1. Better check again on cab space for the supercab Ranger vs the Supercab Frontier. Your 2.4 has 143 HP and 154ft/lbs of torque. The 2.5 has 120HP and 146ft/lbs of torque. Even the Nissan 3.3 is weak at 170HP and 200ft/lbs of Torque, compared to the 4.0 of 160HP and 225ft/lbs of TORQUE. Nissan has the weakest V6 of all manufactures its all in black and white. Although I just read some news that Nissan has learned its lesson and is coming out with a 240HP 250ft/lbs of torque V6 for its Pathfinder, lets hope it finds its way into the Frontier lineup. The 3.0 has 152hp and 192ft/lbs of TORQUE. Trucks count On TORQUE not HP. Ford offers 3 engines in their RAngers, how many does Nissan offer? the 2.5 is build soley for CAFE reasons. The 3.0 is only about 300$ more if anyone did their homework before purchasing. Sales do matter this is what makes the company money, remember? BMW, well, they make good vehicles no doubt. Here in the U.S. they are considered a prime status symbol. Ever been to Euorope? they are everywhere, just like Fords or GM's. BMW has a reputation in the U.S. it lives off of. Fact is there are plenty of vehicles that will out perform, out slalom a BMW and for thousands and thousands less from both Japanese and U.S. automakers.
And another bit of info about Frontier vs Ranger. Above it was claimed the Frontier had more interior room, wrong. Ranger Front Head room, 39.2, Nissan 39.3. Ranger Front Leg room 42.4, Nissan 40.9. Ranger Length 187.5, width 69.4, Height 64.9. Nissan Length 184.3, width 66.5, Height 62.8. And, the Ranger vs Nissan MPG is identical at 22/27 22/26.
Comments
Volfy, I see your points on the interior issue, although, I'm still not sure I agree. But that's ok, I enjoy the feedback. I'm going to have to be in both trucks some more to make a decision. I still have quite some time before I buy. Besides, interior is obviouisly not going to be THE determining factor of what I buy, but I do enjoy a nice interior, truck or car.
Other factors include towing capacity since I will be towing a small fishing boat and possibly a pop-up camper. Both trucks with the V6 and auto trans. can pull 5,000 lbs. So lets just say they are equal there. Gas mileage is similar. Both trucks are pleasing to the eye on the outside as far as I'm concerned, but IMO the Ranger has a slightly more rugged look which I like. On the other hand, the Frontier has a more attractive 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain warranty.
Hmmmmm.......Decisions, decisions. I guess I'm just gonna have to test drive some more. Poor me huh? Heck, I'll love every minute of it......and just for fun, I'll be test driving the S-10 and Tacoma too...why not, right?
Talk to you later fellas,
Skip
good idea, take your time there are alot of good choices out there, if you are looking at the V6 auto Frontier, I am assuming you want the desert runner, I am thinking about upgrading mine to a desert runner too. Have you seen the interior on the SE desert runner? Very Nice. Leather wrapped steering wheel, nicer cloth, two tone dash, plus you can get it without getting all of the extra stuff like a sunroof if you don't want it. ALso I always recommend looking at maintenance and ownership costs. Check out intellichoice.com for more info. Good luck!
cncman, in our last square off you brought up resale value. Better go to Kelly Blue book and punch numbers. The Ranger and Nissan are pretty much equal when optioned the same. I did a test with my 98 Ranger loaded, vs a 98 Nissan loaded. Granted the 98 Nissan doesn't offer a V6. The Ford resale came in about $700 higher but this is of course due to the V6 I believe.
Also, read the Edmunds review of the Nissan Crew cab. Nissan better enjoy being the only one to have a crew cab now. Ford and Dodge are just around the corner with their own. And when people start to realize, hey this high tech V6 sucks, no HP and torque, Nissan will have even a harder time.
Skip
Drive all trucks and keep an open mind. There is a truck out there with your name on it, and it may or may not be be the one everybody else drives. When I was shopping, I even considered full-size trucks like the F-150 and Dodge Ram and test drove 'em all. I think the more you look around, the more satisfied and assured you'll be once you do buy it.
And then maybe, just maybe, you wouldn't come back here and argue till kingdom come just to justify your choice. ;-D
Just kidding. Have fun shopping, and do let us know which one you choose.
And another point. 25ft/lbs of torque is a nice size difference when you are pulling or hauling a boat.
And, yes you named it the 5000lb towing is only on the AUTOMATIC Nissan Frontier.
5spd, appearance pkg and alloy wheels only) with
43,000 miles for $7500. It is a repo from the
bank.
But then today I found a 94 loaded SE V6
Kingcab(minus auto trans.) with 104,000 miles for
$6500. What is the better deal? The 94 just had
the belt replaced and it is in very good condition
and it is being sold by the original owner.
I like the looks of the 98 but the conv. of the 94
king cab and V6 makes this a hard decision.
Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Also, Fords debut of the Explorer Sport Trac is going to be January 2000. It is going to have a 206hp/245ft/lbs of torque single overhead cam V6!
More room, more power, more options, more standard options, more than the puny, underpowered 170hp/200ft/lbs of torque 3.3 of Nissans.
Better get to selling these crew cabs quick to those who don't know this is coming. And I am sure you won't tell your customers Ford has a MUCH more superior Crew Cab on the way in January.
The Ranger will also have this engine sometime in summer of 2000. Then who will really stomp who? Enjoy your underpowered high tech 3.3!
Took a Ranger XLT Super cab sportside 4x4 3.0 V6 and loaded it down with all options I have. (Remember I have the 4.0) Kelly Blue Book only offers the 2.4 not the 3.3 in its 1998 Frontier model line up. So I figured I better drop down an engine to be somewhat comparable. Ford doesn't offer a 4cyl, hasn't for sometime in its Ranger 4x4's. Why does Nissan?
And took a Nissan King Cab XE and equipped it equally. (Except Nissan doesn't offer a sportside box).
These are RETAIL Kelly blue book numbers. TRADEIN numbers are lower, but even at trade in the Ranger is still higher.
Nissan - $20,630
Ford - $22,050 (With the 4.0 its $22,550).
Nice try though.
http://wellengaged.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?&f=0&c=Pickups&t=989&q=*
of course the ford you compare to the Nissan is more money, it's a V6 vs a four cylinder! also you pay more for the ford up front, even in KBB, you will see that the Nissan holds a better percentage of it's value that's what is important, above you can see that the Nissan held it's value 7% better the first year and 11% better the second than the ford, so what are you talking about? In the example above you lost $3,150 from 98 to 96 in the ford and $1600 in the Nissan. How can you sit here
and tell us ford has a higher resale????
I am glad to see Ford following Nissan's lead again, but sorry Vince, by that time, Nissan will have the supercharged 210 Hp V-6 in the crew cab,
looks like ford looses again, also folks will still be interested in quality and the sport trac is going to be much higher priced than the crew cab from what I hear, so nothing to worry about there. Also isn't it going to have the small square bed? Howcome it was a terrible idea when Nissan did it and now the ford comes out with their version and you don't mention a thing about it, sure is convenient Vince. Yes that sport trac sounds WAY superior to the Nissan, lower quality,
less power, higher price, less warranty, whew sign me up for one! Man Vince, when you lost the last argument and went away mad, I thought you might have been a little bit more prepared when you came back, oh well what do they say about a battle of the wits and being unarmed? PS a friend of mine may be interested in that 125hp 4cylinder ranger,
do you know where he could get one at?
And once again you leave out the 210HP comes from a supercharger add-on. Wonder what would happen if Ford decided to supercharge its V6? Can we say 240HP possibly?? And once agiain you fail to quote the most important thing on a truck, TORQUE!
The Sport Trac will have enough room to sit TWO ADULTS comfortably in the rear seats. Can't say that for Nissan.
As for resale. There is a $2,600 dollar difference between a 1998 Ford and a 1998 Nissan like equipped. Granted I put in the 3.0 because KBB doesn't offer that option. But, the 3.0 doesn't cost $2,600 dollars! Lets say a $500 dollar taken off for the 3.0. That sill leaves a $2,100 dollar difference between a LIKE OPTIONED 1998 Ford Ranger and A LIKE OPTIONED 1998 Nissan as per Kelly Blue Book. Like I said, anyone can go and do this at Kelly Blue Book and see for themselves.
As for your Frontier costing less than a Ranger. Not any longer in the Northwest Region. They are dead equal, maybe a $200 difference in some adds I have seen. Nissans marketing tactic of being less expensive at first introduction of the Frontier is over.
how can you expect anyone to take you seriously?
you keep coming back here with the same old ungrounded arguments, don't read, mess up information etc.? Maybe you could start your own topic where you are the only one there. You said I did not mention the frontier will be supercharged,
you misread my post above again. I clearly said
"supercharged 210 hp V6" If you can't get this right, how can we believe you can get anything right? And what's wrong with a supercharger? If ford put it out you would tell us it is the greatest thing! So far as low quality, ford is famous for that, even the carpoint data you gave us to show how fantastic the ranger was rated the Nissan higher in reliability, but I guess you think I wrote carpoint too as one of my tricks. YOu can't show me one source that shows the ranger is higher quality than the Nissan. How many times has the ranger won JD power's highest in initial quality award?
Vince you have no credibility here, you consistently waltz in, bring up old arguments you can't support, manipulate or create figures, and when someone shows how wrong you are, you run and hide for a week or two and then start doing the same thing again without answering to what you said before how can you expect anyone to take you seriously? BTW I thought the last time you got whipped you said you were done with this debate.
Face it the 3.3 is a joke. Why does Nissan have to ADD a supercharger in order to achieve HP that normally aspirated engines from FORD/TOYOTA/CHEVY already achieve??
High Tech, yeah right.
The 2.4 is a joke also in the Nissan 4x4 Frontier. No torque once again. Keep manipulating your numbers also. But I'm sure that is your job as a salesperson. And be sure to tell anyone who shops for a Frontier, its the lowest in its class for Torque. I'm sure you'll tell folks that right? Nissan has quite a ways to go to catch up with the leader in light trucks, FORD.
annoyance that as no idea what he's talking about into a full fledged paranoid delusional, get help man! I guess someone else out there realizes you have no clue either.
"normally aspirated engines from ford/toyota chevy
already achieve" What are you talking about VInce?
THe supercharged V6 frontier will have 210hp, ford now has at most 160hp, chevy 190 and toyota 190.
Where are you getting your delusional info from?
The only way for Nissan to "catch up" to Ford would be to shorten the warranty, raise the price,
make you pay for every little extra, lower the quality of materials, increase operating costs, redesign the engines to 100 year old tractor technology shrink the bed and make it ride like a
skate board! Man Ford is really such a leader, that's why Nissan beat them to the punch 40 years
ago with the compact truck, now the crew cab and the Xterra, (Ford is following Nissan's lead again
with their new escape SUV) Vince why don't you at least try to do some research before you open your mouth, I am getting tired of having to constantly correct you.
The new V6 Ford has is a 206HP, now listen, 245ft/lbs of TORQUE. No supercharger needed.
Toyota 190HP 220ft/lbs of torque - no supercharger needed
Chevy S10 190HP 240ft/lbs of TORQUE - no supercharger needed.
Get it, other manufactures don't need superchargers to get the HP and Torque form their engines.
This New V6 will be available in the Ranger sometime in summer 2000. It will once again have 206hp and 245ft/lbs of TORQUE. TORQUE, somthing Nissan severly lacks.
The price advantage is over also that Frontier held its first year of production. The Frontiers has been around for about 3 years now is it? Sure don't see those Ranger sales giving way to Nissan Frontier sales. The consumer rules!
Now you can't even get what you said before right.
you clearly said in post #68 "Why does Nissan have to add a supercharger in order to achieve HP that normally aspirated engines from FORD/CHEVY/TOYOTA
already achieve?" You said horsepower! So tell me which of these already get 210HP???????
And you are wrong again about lowest torque in a V6 that goes to the ranger 3.0 V6 with 192 ft/lbs,
And why does ford make you pay extra for the decent engine? plus all of the extra towing packages. And if that extra 25 ft/lbs of torque in the most expensive ranger V6 was so great, then why doesn't it pull more than the Nissan even after you add all of the towing options? Sure sounds great to me!
Vince I thought at least maybe you could get one thing right, but even with the pricing here from edmunds you can't show the facts, I guess I will
have to help you out again.
ranger xlt 4cyl reg cab man. MSRP=$14,755
frontier xe reg cab 4cyl man. MSRP=$12,659
ranger XLT x-cab 4cyl 4x2 man. MSRP=$16,855
frontier XE x-cab 4cyl 4x2 man. MSRP=$15,009
4x4 ranger 4.0l V6 x-cab XLT man. MSRP=$21,015
4x4 frontier XE 3.3l V6 x-cab man. MSRP=$19,294
SO what the heck are you talking about, there is at least $1,000 price advantage for the Nissan
and this is before you add the towing packages that you have to pay for on the ranger to get the
same amount of towing Nissan gives you from the start! And if anyone wants to hear the truth about
Vince's fantasticly reliable 4.0l V6, check out
topic 688 here, blown engines, noises, won't start. Ford, quality is job NONE!
Please Vince before you post and embarrass yourself again, see if there is a 10 year old child in your neighborhood that can show you how to form an argument and do some research,
Now your not reading my posts. This all started with the 206HP V6 soon to arrive in the Ranger and will be available in the new 4door Sportrac. In order for Nissan to compete they have to supercharge their high tech 3.3 V6 to even compete in this segement. And you always seem to forget the most important aspect of a truck, let me spell it out again T O R Q U E. Somthing you will never bring up in a sales transaction I am sure.
There are plenty of posts around about squeaks, rattles, a/c problems with Frontiers my friend.
And you fail to mention, on a Ford 4x4 the 3.0 is the BASE engine. Not like a wimpy 2.4 that Nissan still puts in their 4x4's. And what most folks don't know is the 3.0 can be had for about $500 more than the 2.5. Negligable when buying a 12-15K truck.
Keep reachin cncman. When the new V6 comes out it will have a standard HP of 206 and torque of 240ft/lbs. Can't say that about ANY Nissan engines now can we?
Keep bringing up the quality, spoken like a true salesman still back in the 80's wanting the public to believe Ford/GM/Dodge are inferior products. I have already given you multiple sites to rebute your claims of quality.
Where are these sites speaking about the Frontier's quality, I would like to see them for my own info. in an attempt to make a well informed choice here.
Thanks,
Skip
please tell me in what part of the country Nissan
has more expensive MSRP's?, the prices are the same everywhere you go. Nissan has the price advantage everywhere in the US, if you have something different, please share it with us. Or at least give us some information on what your outrageous claims are based on.
Again, you start talking about torque because you were talking about HP and got shut down, you brought up HP not me, how many times do you need
me to repost your ravings? And I always bring up torque in my sales presentations, most folks buy the four cylinder trucks, which you always ignore the fact that the ranger has less torque there too. and the 3.3l V6 from Nissan has 180ft/lbs of torque at 1500 RPM, which is more than the 4.0l ranger, so the Nissan has more usable torque where
you need it for pulling at lower RPM's.
OK Vince let's assume that your argument that the most important thing in a truck is torque is a valid argument, why then did you not buy the S-10?
it has 240 ft/lbs of torque, can't you follow the same advice you keep trying to give to everyone here? The next time someone asks you which truck
they should buy I am sure that you will tell them the S-10 right? and please, please don't ignore this one, I really want to hear your answer. Vince how many more posts do you have in you before you run and hide like last time? I may just wait this one out.
Don't worry skip every site that Vince gives you,
will rate the Nissan higher in quality.
ALso check out intellichoice.com, where you can see the lower operating costs of the frontier, less maintenance, repairs insurance, resale value etc.
skipd, you will have to search the net as I did,
www.carpoint.msn.com, auto.com, Popular mehanics all have ownership reliability data. Cncman continues to point to areas that support his salesperson views, but hey, that his job.
As you mentioned in previous posts, the Ranger is better looking, stands nicer, has more room in the SC version and you can actually use the jump seats for small folks or adults on a short trip.
Test drive, Test drive, Test drive.
Nissan has an inferior 3.3 V6 and cncman knows this. As I have asked him why Nissan still puts the 2.4 in its 4x4? Read any offroad mag and its weak, can't pull itself with A/C going at that. Ford doesn't put a 4cyl into its 4x4's, wonder why??
Better sell quick cncman, the new V6 is just around the corner. Better yet the Sport Trac is due in January. Can't wait to see the shoot out. And, without a supercharger to add the needed HP/Torque that Nissan needs to compete. And about the "usable" torque, what gears are we talking about? 3.73, 4.10...?
the Nissan complaints were few and far between and included, things like mine doesn't blow as cool as
I think it should, not that it went out, there were 0 powertrain complaints or problems, now look
at the Ford, you here things like, this is the second engine ford put in my ranger and it is still not right, etc. one person even said his ranger drove him to look at a frontier for better reliability, none of the nissan owners said this.
I love how you keep bringing up carpoint, anyone can see that it rates Nissan higher in reliability, just like I said, Vince can't show one site that shows higher reliability for the ranger, that's because it isn't more reliable than the nissan. and yes everyone knows I am a Nissan salesman, that's no secret, but I put my money down for the frontier, so I am speaking as an owner, and you can't point to one thing that I have said that isn't true, whereas Vince has a ford and can't even sell anyone here on it, and
edmunds would need more band width for me to post
vince's inconsistencies and "mistakes"
And no, I don't know Nissan has an inferior V6, the only advantage you can point out is that you can buy 25 ft/lbs more torque in the ranger, the Nissan engine is still smoother, less maintenance
better reliability record, sohc vs ohv, better low end torque usage etc. and does the same work as the ranger, I don't see how you equate this with
inferior.
The reason ford doesn't put a four cylinder in the 4x4's is becuase the ranger four cylinder can't even move the 4x2! Yes if I was getting a 4x4 I would not get the four cylinder, We don't even stock them, so what? the V6 frontier still costs
less than the V6 ranger, and I noticed you haven't been able to come up with any info to support your claim to the contrary VInce, why not?
And while we are at it, when are you going to answer the question why you did not buy the S-10,
according to you the only thing that matters is torque, the S-10 has the most, so why aren't you in here praising the S-10?
ANd actually I am selling quick, with all of the new products built on the "inferior" V6 frontier
4x4 platform like the Xterra and crew cab, I have
been rather busy, sure there will be more competition when ford follows Nissan and comes out with their version of the crew cab and Xterra, but Nissan is already one step ahead,
Good news Vince, I heard ford is starting to make
rear window defrosters standard on fords now, so your hands won't get cold when youre pushing them!
I looked at three days newspapers in the Houston area, Most of the Ford dealers here advertise the F150's, I saw no ads for 4x4's for either Nissan
or ford, I saw, 2000 Xe reg cab Nissan's for 9875
and 1999 & 2000 XLT reg cab 5 spds for 11,999,
x-cab frontiers 4 cyl, 5 spd, 4x2 for 11,999, and
the ranger XLT 4x2 4 cyl 5spd for 13,999. SO I guess in your area they are heavily discounting the rangers.
As usuall, this all comes down to preference, every truck out there has advantages over the others in one way or another, some have better warranty, more standard features, bigger bed, more
size more torque, etc. It just depends on how you
rank the list of advantages, for me, I rated the frontier's larger bed better warranty, comfortable ride, lower price and operating costs and Hp over anything else. For you it was your experience with ford and that you can buy more torque, so as long as everyone knows the advantages each truck has when they are shopping and can rate those advantages according to their own preference, they end up making the best decision for themselves.
(1) A 4-cylinder in a truck is ridiculous. To put a 4-cylinder in a 4WD truck is pure insanity. To tow (one of a real truck's primary duties) with a 4-cylinder is pure stupidity.
(2) If you cannot get a comparably equipped Ranger for a few thousand less than a Nissan, you should be asking someone to help you look for a truck. I bought a '98 Ranger XLT 4WD 4.0L-V6 5-speed automatic off-road package power everything (loaded with every option except super-cab) for $18,500 a little over a year ago. This includes over 3 grand in incentives (rebates, 4x4 value package, college grad, special financing). Nothing else was within $1,000 comparably equipped. I can't remember the price difference on the Frontier, but it was substantial. The only incentive I have ever seen Nissan offer is special financing (i was looking at Altimas for my wife until i found i could easily get something better for much less $$$). I'm not saying it's never happened, but I have never seen Nissan offer cash back. The salesman I talked to said they offer only special financing as an incentive. The other factor in prices are the amount and proximity of dealerships. I made a phone call and with no haggling bought the Ranger for dealer invoice. Try doing that at a Nissan dealership.
(3) The Ford 3.0L is really more of a comparable engine to the Nissan 3.3L (3.0 = 152hp 192ft/lbs. 3.3 = 170hp 200ft/lbs). While you the hp numbers are skewed towards the Nissan, their performance figures are almost identical. The 4.0 does not make a drastic improvement in performance numbers as one would think from the extra liter of displacement. It's tuned to produce lots of torque at very low revs, which makes it suitable for "truck" duties, towing, off-road, and even plowing. The 3 liter engines (and 4 cylinders too) in each the Ford and Nissan are essentially "car" engines.
(4) Just one more thing. If you want to compare retail prices, you need to compare an Frontier SE (not an XE) with a Ranger XLT for about the same equipment level.
About the two most comparable models would be the Nissan SE Crew Cab 4wd and the Ranger XLT Supercab 4wd. It's the 3.0 vs the 3.3, both with manuals. The only difference on standard equipment is the tilt wheel, which comes standard on the Nissan.
MSRP prices: Nissan - $21,710 Ford - $20,225
Invoice: Nissan - $19,785 Ford - $18,207
I included the destination charges in each truck's price, and the information is from www.carpoint.com.
If you look at the 4-cylinder no frills XE vs. XL (exact same options, which is basically nothing) they're less than $100 different in both retail and invoice prices. But, Nissan adds a tach and has more ponies than the Ford.
Sorry about all of the rambling. I just wanted to throw in some clarifications that have been bothering me while I've been reading this string.
Later,
Colin
In my region (Northwest) the Frontier price advantage is gone. I have looked at the Saturday/Sunday ads for the last 4 weeks and have yet to see any price advantage for the Frontier in any level or model. I just don't see very many of them around here either. I do see an occasional 2WD kingcab or just plain 2wd reg cab but not many 4x4 XE/SE V6's.
Ford/Toyota pretty much have this market wrapped up.
Then it came down to price. Frontier salespeople dealt with me and sold me a 4 cylinder XE for around 12,000. Ford salespeople were firm at around 15,000 for a 4 cylinder.
So I thought... man, I'm just gonna drive this truck everyday to work and run it over potholes and street bumps... might as well choose the cheaper truck to beat up.
It's been more than a year now, and yes, I've never slowed down for speedbumps, drive it 75-80 mph on our Texas freeways 5 days a week... this truck hasn't cried on me yet. But of course, I do take it for scheduled maintenance.
wannaranger:)
i had researched nissan in mag.s and over the net as ellas speaking with several friends who have owned them for years and never had anyone complain in terms of reliability or dealer service. i also to be fair spoke with friends who have rangers and toyotas and most really liked there vehicles, however when pressed they admitted (ranger owners) they had some mechanical failures some were minor some not so minor.
for my money reliability is job 1 and that slogan belongs to the japanese manufacturers they are way ahead in terms of design and cost of ownership. this vince character pushes his rangers brags about having one for 90k miles and buys another one that to me is not the advertising i would want if i were ford if he had said 190k miles that would be much more impressive assuming no problems in between but we all know that is impossible.
be happy
crew cab and xterra sales are not flat, desert runner sales are not flat.another example of your spewing misinformation. why don't you back off chill a little and then research what you want to say. you have missed the point of what we were trying to say. there is a difference between good and better. ranger is a good truck no doubt, but the facts and data compiled from owners clearly shows frontier superior in terms of reliability engineering, coo, ride, you have a good truck just be happy with it without having to have everyone else agree with you to substantiate your opinion.
2.4 is 143HP/150ftlbs torque, the 3.3 is 170HP and 200ft/lbs of torque. The Ranger 3.0 is 150HP and 192ft/lbs of torque, the 4.0 is 160HP and 225ft/lbs of torque@! TORQUE, what real truck owners are after.
Regards, Mike
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/nissanfrontierclubhouse?as
I'm just glad that there are still some real compact truck choices out there. Sad would be the day that every manufacturer sells the same variant of the same basic truck - even if it is the best one.
Vince8,
I don't really have any beef with your strong opinions. Kinda glad to see you're so brand-loyal and passionate about your ride. If you're so blood thirsty for a fight all the time though, why not take up kick-boxing or something to put that energy to good use. :-)
I can't comment on the Ranger since I haven't owned one, but I much prefered the 2.4L DOHC/5sp in my 96 Tacoma - peppier, freer revving, better matched gear raios. The very similar 2.4L DOHC/5sp in the Frontier just seem like it's "detuned" in comparison. Some of this difference is due to the heavier weight of the Frontier, but I knew this full well before I made the switch. I liked the slightly bigger size and the better equipment for the same money, and I was willing to sacrifice a little oomph for them. Goes to show what's important is different from truck owner to truck owner.
Also, what's popular is somewhat geographical. I see more S-10s and Nissans here than I do Rangers and Tacomas. I've been told that Texas is Ford country and Oklahoma is Chevy country and it certainly seems the case, but I don't know that for a fact. I don't dispute the fact that Ranger is still #1 in sales volume overall though.
As far as the Ford vs Nissan or Domestic vs Import, Imports have proven reliability records much higher than the domestics. I am a mechanical engineer and engineering is rated as follows: (1) German, (2) Japanese, (3) American. With the extensive research I've done in the automotive world I've found nothing to dispute this. Toyotas and Nissans to me are identical in everything but price. You can get an identically equipped Frontier for 10-15% cheaper than a Tacoma. Toyota has attempted to move into a "luxury" car market and it can be seen in their sticker prices. I love my 4x4 Frontier, It performs well in our Louisiana Mud and cleans up very well. It is a very attractive truck to me, and a slightly larger one than Tacoma.
As far as the "Ford sells more Rangers" argument, well, if anyone hasn't figured out yet, Ford doesn't ever claim to build a better vehicle, they just claim to sell more vehicles. Fords whole marketing scheme is VOLUME. Nissan went through an admitted lull with its design teams and now with new designers they are doing exceptionally well with the XTERRA, FRONTIER, AND MAXIMA.
A good example of reliability is that Nissan and Toyota offer a 5 year, 60000 mile powertrain warranty. Ford and Chevy only offer 3/36. Hmmmmm, wonder why that is? Maybe because even they do not expect their vehicles to last as long as Nissan or Toyota.
Personally, no, you cannot get big power or size from an import truck. But if you are on a budget and need a cheaper, more reliable truck, get an import. If you have money for big repairs, or plan to trade your truck in at 80000 miles or less on the odometer, get the big Chevy, Ford, or Dodge.
We all have stories of reliability to tell.
Fact is the Frontier styling isn't going over too well, it shows in sales figures. Come into the new millenium and out of the 70's and 80's.
I've being a VW nut for a long time - still am actually, just don't care to be associated with the trendy NB love-in crowd that have flooded the VW showrooms lately. I've long admired the Germans for their over-engineering and unique methodology for solving problems with unconventional, often ingenious and mold-breaking, thinking. The Teutons, however, are not alone in their innovativeness and propensity to learn and improve. Neither is der Faterland devoid of automotive f*ckups.
The automobiles of various origins are today more alike than they are different. Some variance in engineering philosophy and design paradigm still exist, which do help target different demographics to a certain degree. These differences, however, are more style than substance and in no easy way place one nation technically superior above another categorically.
"I am a mechanical
engineer and engineering is rated as follows: (1)
German, (2) Japanese, (3) American. With the
extensive research I've done in the automotive
world I've found nothing to dispute this."
I simply replied that, as a fellow ME, I disagree. Then I gave my opinion, which you are free to agree or disagree. Questioning my credentials was frankly rather unbecoming.
I write what I think - straight and true. If you have any trouble reading or comprehending my posts, feel free to enlighten me of my shortcomings. Like Mozart told the Emperor(?), if you gonna complain about too many notes, explain exactly which notes are excessive. No doubt you can do better than bitching about my silly word play on Numba One.
BTW, BMW being the most successful auto manufacturer on this planet? Again you're entitled to your opinion, of course, but you will likely find few raised hands on that vote.
1. Better check again on cab space for the supercab Ranger vs the Supercab Frontier.
Your 2.4 has 143 HP and 154ft/lbs of torque. The 2.5 has 120HP and 146ft/lbs of torque. Even the Nissan 3.3 is weak at 170HP and 200ft/lbs of Torque, compared to the 4.0 of 160HP and 225ft/lbs of TORQUE. Nissan has the weakest V6 of all manufactures its all in black and white. Although I just read some news that Nissan has learned its lesson and is coming out with a 240HP 250ft/lbs of torque V6 for its Pathfinder, lets hope it finds its way into the Frontier lineup.
The 3.0 has 152hp and 192ft/lbs of TORQUE. Trucks count On TORQUE not HP. Ford offers 3 engines in their RAngers, how many does Nissan offer? the 2.5 is build soley for CAFE reasons. The 3.0 is only about 300$ more if anyone did their homework before purchasing.
Sales do matter this is what makes the company money, remember?
BMW, well, they make good vehicles no doubt. Here in the U.S. they are considered a prime status symbol. Ever been to Euorope? they are everywhere, just like Fords or GM's. BMW has a reputation in the U.S. it lives off of. Fact is there are plenty of vehicles that will out perform, out slalom a BMW and for thousands and thousands less from both Japanese and U.S. automakers.
Ranger Front Head room, 39.2, Nissan 39.3. Ranger Front Leg room 42.4, Nissan 40.9.
Ranger Length 187.5, width 69.4, Height 64.9. Nissan Length 184.3, width 66.5, Height 62.8.
And, the Ranger vs Nissan MPG is identical at 22/27 22/26.