Chevrolet Cobalt

gvsunurse · November 2005

I too have had an issue with the brake light coming on while driving...it has been "fixed" twice (each conveniently happened right before the car was going in for sunroof repairs). Thus far, it hasn't gone off again...I was told it was a common problem...but because of where the brake light is, I suspect that it went off more than the three times it caught my eye.

gvsunurse · November 2005

Not sure if you've looked back in these postings, but my sunroof has already been replaced. First, the factory failed to hook up the hose from the drain (have they checked that?) - so it was draining onto my floorboard. Then, the seal was coming off the glass AND the switch fell out of the roof of the car! That was when they replaced the sunroof and switch. I never ever had any issues like this with my sunroof in my grand am, that I bought used, three years old...argh...I realize both are GM vehicles, but I will be going back to Pontiac after this car, or completely away from GM all together.

gvsunurse · November 2005

Clearly the person you are responding to has not dealt with GM...I am waiting for one more issue with my car before I begin to raise hell...but I have not yet pushed for a new vehicle becuase i know what my aunt's experience was once they determined her GMC Sierra was a lemon...she ended up going behind GM's back and negotiated a deal on the truck they were replacing hers with as it was at the dealer's lot! They were incredibly rude to her and drag their feet at an incredibly slow pace.

frustrated8 · November 2005

When my brake light kept coming on they re-programmed the I.C.P. (whatever that is!) and that fixed that problem. Supposedly there was a bulletin on that problem. Like you, I'm sure mine went off more times than I saw. It flashed quickly! But have your dealership check the bulletins and re-program the I.C.P.

aveman · November 2005

It is a shame to get a lemon and have to go through hell. I think part of the problem with service issues is bad communication. First of all, if the problem is a defective part, chances are it will take a long time to get it fixed properly. Bad parts often come in bad batches. If a part has to be redsigned or sourced from a different supplier it will take a while. If you have to get a part replaced under warranty that may not hold up,if they know that they should tell you. These are issues that could affect any supplier. I think GM probably does a good job of finding problems with their cars, and finding soulutions to problems. But I think they could probably do a lot better of communicating with their customer. There is no good excuse for huge quality problems. But if you want your problem fixed right, chances are it can't be done quickly, especially a new problem.

gsemike · November 2005

More excuses for GM. Part of the total value promise should be getting these things right the first time. They still have the 60s mentality that they have a year to work the bugs out on a new model. You set the bar too low. Even buying a low end car is too much of a commitment to go through what these buyers have been subjected to and don't tell us it can't be helped.

aveman · November 2005

I made no excues for poor asembly quality of anybodies cars.I just mentioned that if someone gets a defective part, they may be under the impression that they can go and get a good part put in. My point was that since defects can occur in batches, people should be told that the replacement part could have a problem also.I have just seen people get very angry that they had a part replaced more than once,when in fact they got a defective part exchaned for a defective part. Until a problem is found, and then a part is either redesigned or resourced from some one else, the problem, unless just an adjustment , may persist. I admit that I would have a big problem with water leaking in my car.The things I posted above reard many mass produced parts, not just car parts,and,not just Chevy.

gsemike · November 2005

Maybe if the General wasn't so intent on leveraging the buying power to wring every last penny out of their suppliers they wouldn't have this problem as much as they do.

I think that any manufacturer can build a lemon but the problem seems more common on domestic carts. There pursuit of penny wise. pound foolish strategies is to blame.

poncho167 · November 2005

Sorry the Cobalt is not even close to being a bad car. In fact it is still considered a leader in its class in just its first year. I have read other forums and over a dozen tests and only a few had negative comments about the car, mostly uninspiring styling or needing more hp. I have worked for Toyota in the past and that is one reason I would never own one of those, but I am not going to go on message boards and try and drag a car experience into the ground.

Like the above response says these cars are built in batches and its unfortunate some people has certain issues-sunroof. The Cobalt is selling close to 20,000 a month which makes it one of the top selling cars.

m1miata · November 2005

A leader in class??? In what way?

Loren

gsemike · November 2005

The SS actually placed 4th out of 5 in the C & D comparo. It only beat it's twin the Ion. Despite the few horrow stories I think that it's a competent car that is soon to be surpassed by the new Civic and Corolla when it gets out. Once the price cuts start, it probably will be a decent value.

micweb · November 2005

Daytime running lights (save lives); oil monitor system (yes, we all have our own personal preferences but here is a system that gives us a reference based on our own driving habits); available 4 channel antilock brakes (standard above the LS grade); available head curtain (the best kind) side air bags; a passing score on the severe IIHS side impact crash test (only the Corolla and Jetta also made it, they deferred testing the '05 Civic and 05' Subarau Impreza presumably because the manufacturers' knew they wouldn't even come close to a pass until the '06 upgrades); firm seats for long ride comfort, even though on short rides people complain about them (principle over an easier sell); standard aircon, so if you are shopping for an "ad special" you won't give up aircon, like on Focii; filtration on the aircon; available XM radio (real radio, not "XM ready"); available OnStar for emergency help (how many times have I read about late night and other, single car accidents where no one comes for help because no one saw the accident); 15 inch wheels from inception, allowing for larger brake rotors; coupe as well as sedan version (where's the Focus/Mazda3 coupe); struts instead of hinges (Honda still has hinges!) on the trunk to save space; use of QuietSteel for one of the quietist interiors in its class; use of special elastopolymeric "balls" in the torsion bar axle to improve handling and quiet (borrowed from VW! albeit the last gen); 5 year/60,000 mile power train warranty; 2.2 Ecotec engine designed with input from Opel and Saab; enviro-friendly oil filter (drop in, no cannister!); 400 cc more displacement than a Civic, 200cc more than a Focus; body colored pull out door handles (borrowed from VW again); ability to order the exact way you want it (impossible with Civic); Getrag 5 speed stick shift; top rated automatic (yes, it's still 4 speed, but it beats every other small car transmission for longevity and picks up pracise all the time from reviewers for its responsiveness); very large dealer network with quick oil change lanes....

I think I could go on. This segment is very competitive and the Cobalt is in in the hunt. I like the new Civic a lot, but also the Cobalt. For me, it will all come down to rebates and pricing.

gsemike · November 2005

Doesn't it always with GM?

btw, where is the 5 door Cobalt?

m1miata · November 2005

The Mazda3 looks interesting, and new. Most, like the Cobalt simply look all the same to me. Not bad, just boring. Interior looks cheaper to me, but I am sure others will disagree. Now if they make the design of the car look new, or go RWD, it would be something to be excited about.

Loren

allfiredup · November 2005

I think the Cobalt would sell better if it was more visually appealing. The front and especially rear fascias are just dull. Some cars in the class have at least a little style. I even think the Saturn ION looks better.

The Cobalt drives great, based on my experience with a rental last year. Plenty of power, good handling and the interior design is the best I've ever seen in a GM.

They just need to punch up the looks a little, at least on the sedan. (I personally hate the rear end of the coupe, but at least it has some character).

poncho167 · November 2005

Fit and finish, interior comfort and design, materials. Ride and handling. Available options that most don't have including side impact air bags (5 star rated front crash, and best in class side), satellite radio, Onstar, and a supercharged model. It also is among the top in mpg even besting the Corolla, though slim, in one test.

poncho167 · November 2005

The sc model beat the Acura in a comparison in Road & Track.

poncho167 · November 2005

I wasn't the most thrilled with it's kind of bland looks at first, but now it doesn't both me. Other than maybe the Mazda 3, no other car in this class stands out in appearance. I could do without the bow tie on the rear and front. The SS tail lights would be nice to have on the regular sedan, but the standard tail lights are the industry normal conservitive look like the rest of the car.

gsemike · November 2005

Poncho is on a denial roll

m1miata · November 2005

Cobalt beat the Acura? A Civic? A Mazda3? Interesting! Wonder how the three to ten year experience will be, cost wise, problem areas on the car, and resale. If it all comes together, not just on paper, as in zero to sixty times, and stopping distance, but in real world use / quality over time, then at the right price, the Cobalt is indeed a buy. Looks is subjective, as is interior ratings, I guess. Real world aside, I have yet to see it win against competition in the car magazine reviews. Oh well, may be happening somewhere.

Loren

dontshopthewal · November 2005

In the latest issue of Consumer Reports the Cobalt SS beat the Acura RSX and the Scion tC. I like that.

exalteddragon1 · November 2005

and they are giving discounts! Man, I am beginning to feel sorry for all those honda/toyota people who overpaid and under researched. The Cobalt totally rules.

Does anyone knoe if GM is going to supercharge the 2.4? THAT WOULD BE NICE, I bet about 250hp!

I wonder what else GM has in store for this car...

gsemike · November 2005

Discounts are exactly a sign of a "whole new GM".

m1miata · November 2005

In the latest issue of Consumer Reports the Cobalt SS beat the Acura RSX and the Scion tC. I like that.
~~end quote~~

That is interesting. Was that the RSX Type-S they compared it to? You do know a 2007 RSX will be coming out next year. It may not be the best time to get an Acura with a model change coming out soon. That said the resale will likely still be much higher than the Cobalt SS. Well, unless you figure in an good solid discount from Chevy. It may all equal out, though over a longer time frame, I doubt they remain equal. You may be right though. It is not the best of times to buy the RSX. I doubt the value of the SS though - too much higher than the base models.

I would not buy a Scion tC for more than $17K. I assume they got one with the blower. Yeah, they get expensive too. Tuners may appreciate full dressed tC though, and who's to say they are wrong. Likewise, if ya want to throw big money into modified Cobalts, and like the results, more power to ya! A matter of personal taste, and what one sees in a car. I would rather go rear wheel drive if paying over $20K, and I don't see good resale in GM products yet.

For those in need of a smaller FWD car, with a super charged four banger engine, and cost in and out is no object, then it may indeed be one fun car to own. I hope they did not put the electric assist steering in the Cobalts.

For $20K, I would just get a Mustang.

Loren

exalteddragon1 · November 2005

Well, in a few years after that the cobalt will probably be redesigned, then meybe the new focus comes out, and then the new mazda 3.

That way you would be waiting for a new car to come out all of your life, if you are shopping for a new car today, i can understand anticipating a rediesign in three months, but a year? Please.

The Cobalt kicks the imports like GM was supposed to 20 years ago. Oh well, better late than never.

frustrated8 · November 2005

I'm enjoying my Corolla much more than the Cobalt. Interior comfort and design is superior. They also offer side impact air bags and I'm getting great mpg. And it rides and handles much better. And the door ajar warning feature actually works correctly! The door doesn't have to be completely open five inches before the warning light comes on. I now have 533 miles and still---no problems. Which is a lot more than I can say about my Cobalt. I know, it was a lemon. But the whole experience was a horrible one. I would advise anyone to wait a few years until they have the bugs worked out. And because of the way I was treated by General Motors I will never purchase a vehicle made by them. Burned once-shame on them. Burned twice-shame on me. They will not get another opportunity to burn me!

poncho167 · November 2005

The resale will go up as soon as the new marketing strategy with less incentives becomes the norm. I figure 10 years for auto companies like GM, Ford and the other American company to have comparable resale value.

If you have the time read back into the forum the magazines and months are mentioned. Yes I saw the Acura lose to the sc Cobalt, and yes I have seen the regular Cobalt place high in several magazine tests though none won outright. As far a newspaper auto writers tests the Cobalt has several victories and some of those links to posts have also been printed in this forum.

I never said it is the best car of this type, just one of the better ones. I recently saw that Consumer Reports gave a poor rating to the Cobalt, Hyundai and something else because of recalls. The Cobalts power roof and air conditioner problem (which was supposedly resolved) really hurt its reliability points. Remember, Consumer Reports gets it ratings from people who are members of their magazine, not the rest of the public. Just thought I would throw that in there for thought.

poncho167 · November 2005

They were supposed to release the dealer installed supercharger, but I am not sure which engine its for. There is a lot of aftermarket high performance stuff. I read that there is a GM catalog available with everything from heads to engine blocks with special cylinder sleaves for this car.

poncho167 · November 2005

Good luck with that car, they are pretty well made and you had shouldn't have a problem in the first 500 miles. Remember that a time will come for that car as well as with a lot of Toyota owners cars I have known. Maintain the car to the best of your ability and it will last much longer.

As far as ride and handling for that Corolla that is all in your opinion, but not of most auto writers who test cars for a living.

allfiredup · November 2005

In the Consumer Reports test, they used a base RSX.

Actually, the tC and RSX are both "Recommended" by Consumer Reports. The Cobalt SS and Mitsubishi Eclipse in the same test are not listed as recommended.

The Cobalt SS is the fastest and best handler in the test. But to be fair, the other three cars are normally aspirated while the SS is supercharged. I wonder why they tested the supercharged version instead of the less expensive (by $3200) 2.4L version?

m1miata · November 2005

Well, it is good to see that the overpriced SS is better than the base RSX for speed and handling. Now they should test the top line RSX against the Cobalt SS and see what happens. All things considered, it would just not be a smart buy. In the over $17K range, if you want a little sporty FWD, the RSX would make more sense. Resale will be a huge difference. The supercharged cars take a big hit come resale time. Take a RSX and modify it, if ya want to make something fly, normally aspirated. Aside of the handling numbers, what is the steering feedback feel on those Cobalts? I take it the Cobalt does the cones well. The slalom test is always full of surprises. No doubt the Cobalt does some things right and in some models, it may even be a recommended buy. My guess is that no magazine has rated the most expensive models a buy.

Loren

poncho167 · November 2005

What is the difference between the regular Acura and the other. Isn't it the same engine? The test that was in the July issue of Car & Driver or Motor Trend (don't recall which one) had basically the same performance between the two but the SC Cobalt was voted the overall better of the two for the money and features.

m1miata · November 2005

What is the difference between the regular Acura and the other. Isn't it the same engine?

The Type S has 201 HP without using a blower. The base engine RSX is 155HP. Torque is 140# compared to 139#.
I am sure the 2007 will be pumped up even more. The gas mileage is about the same between RSX and SS Cobalts. Cobalt gets a couple less MPG on the freeway. The only thing off hand that may be better dollar wise in getting an SS would be the engines torque, which is a good 200#. Resale will likely be less than a full dressed non-blown Cobalt if sold or traded in in three to five years. That said, if you prefer the Chevy, and it seems like more fun to you, and you can afford it, it is the one to buy. Go for it! The best handling FWD car was the Celica, but Toyota has abandoned the little guy - oh well.

Loren

poncho167 · November 2005

The 201 hp can be bested by a few 4 cylinder regular aspirated cars out there, so that is not so impressive, neither is the SC Cobalts. The Acura if I read correctly is to get a boost to 215 hp. I agree turbo and sc cars have traditionally shown to have less resale than others, not to mention extra maintenance. That is almost like getting a motocross bike and saying that you never raced it when selling. Sure you didn't.

gsemike · November 2005

What are the naturally aspirated 4 cyl cars that are over 200 horse? I'd think that would be tough to beat.

poncho167 · November 2005

There was/were a few. I have to admit I can't come up with many, but I believe there were a couple European models that had high output 4 cylinder multi-valve engines before they changed to 6 cylinders. GM's Quad 4 2.3 liter engine in the Olds 442 HO Cutlass Calia (or what ever it was called) had an optional 185 hp engine back in the early 1990's. Over 200 hp was Porsche's 944S2 with its big 3 liter 4 engine had 208 hp.

m1miata · November 2005

The 22K Cobalt compares to the base Mustang, which is under 20K.

Loren

poncho167 · November 2005

What about the new Civics with some models starting at $20,000. I recently read I write up on a model and it was said that it was hard to tell the difference between a new Civic or a Toyota Corolla if it wasn't for the different badge on the grill. Though not an ugly car, the Civic in my opinion is more bland looking than the Cobalt, and the Cobalt edges it in overall styling. The Mustang definatly has more styling, though it doesn't do much for me.

m1miata · November 2005

What about the new Civics with some models starting at $20,000. I recently read I write up on a model and it was said that it was hard to tell the difference between a new Civic or a Toyota Corolla if it wasn't for the different badge on the grill. Though not an ugly car, the Civic in my opinion is more bland looking than the Cobalt, and the Cobalt edges it in overall styling. The Mustang definitely has more styling, though it doesn't do much for me.

end quote

Well, let's see, a $20K Civic??? Nope, not a good buy, though if you are talking an Si, it may light someone's fire and be worth it. Most Civic are worth around $15 to $17K at the most. The Cobalt, with not as great a re-sale, and GM financial woes, will likely not bring as good as sell price.

The new Civic is a cab forward design and looks nothing like a Corolla. The coupe looks pretty neat, and the sedan is so-so. Not sure I do like deep dash and long slope windshield.

Seems to me for $20K or higher, something like the Mustang is a lot more style, and sporty looks. And if ya are talking coupes and sedans, you can get Accords, or G6's for that much money.

With the red tag specials, as in future pricing on GM cars, the Cobalt should be somewhere in the $12K to $15K range, so that ain't so bad a deal. But $22K for little GM car??? Heck, I would not pay more than $20K for an Impala.

Loren

poncho167 · November 2005

You have got to admit the Civic does not stand out from other Japanese compacts. It could be put side by side with the others and it almost looks like the same mold. There really wasn't a big surprise in waiting for this car other than someone who wants a navigation system in a $20,000 + compact car.

gsemike · November 2005

Are you talking about the brand new Civic or the last gen? The last gen was very much vanilla. I even think that the 96-2000 design was better looking.

The styling on the new Civic is definately love it or hate it, but it definately looks new and doesn't look anything like a Corolla.

I'm not crazy about the design myself but I give them credit for the agressive, futuristic styling whereas the Cobalt just looks like an updated Cavalier. The Cobalt easily could have been a 1995 instead of a 2005.

poncho167 · November 2005

I am talking about the new Civic, the long wait, the boring look-a-like Japanese car. I agree with the write-ups I have read thus far, another Corolla like car with a different badge. Not an ugly car, but one that does not stand out. As I stated before, in my opinion the plain Cobalt has better styling.

allfiredup · November 2005

With the red tag specials, as in future pricing on GM cars, the Cobalt should be somewhere in the $12K to $15K range, so that ain't so bad a deal. But $22K for little GM car??? Heck, I would not pay more than $20K for an Impala.

I totally agree with you about it not making sense at over $20k. No car of this size is worth that.

I think the Cobalt SS Sedan is sharp looking, but even with red tag pricing it'd be about $19k. I don't understand how someone can justify optioning a compact car well into mid-size prices. For instance, $20k will buy you a Cobalt SS 4-door with every option, a Malibu 2LT with everything but sunroof and leather or an Impala LS with ABS.

I'd rather have more car with less options.

obriend21 · November 2005

With the red tag specials, as in future pricing on GM cars, the Cobalt should be somewhere in the $12K to $15K range, so that ain't so bad a deal. But $22K for little GM car??? Heck, I would not pay more than $20K for an Impala.

I totally agree with you about it not making sense at over $20k. No car of this size is worth that.

I think the Cobalt SS Sedan is sharp looking, but even with red tag pricing it'd be about $19k. I don't understand how someone can justify optioning a compact car well into mid-size prices. For instance, $20k will buy you a Cobalt SS 4-door with every option, a Malibu 2LT with everything but sunroof and leather or an Impala LS with ABS.

I'd rather have more car with less options.

Ah, the beauty of choices - I think it's great to have 3 totally different cars (size/features/etc) at one price. I think a loaded Cobalt SS sedan at $20K is a good buy - think of it as an A4 for $15K less with similar size/features/performance (it's interior isn't as nice, but it's reliability is better and with $15K I'll get a used Solstice in a few years). Besides, the average cost of a new car is something like $27K.

muffin_man · December 2005

I took an extended, and unsupervised, test drive in a Cobalt SS on saturday - and you can not compare the driving experience to anything available in that price range. Definitely not the Mustang V6, which has a completely different feel. In my opinion, the Cobalt SS is the top performering FWD coupe (have to qualify this somehow) in its price range.

Notes:
A) The SRT-4 is out of production, right? (even though the SS is the better all around car, it's hard to argue with the raw acceleration of the Dodge)

I have not driven and am not including the officially unreleased 2006+ Civic Si.
C) I am including the Acura RSX-S in the cars that are outclassed by the Cobalt SS
D) The available Recaros are amazing!

m1miata · December 2005

Speed Channel had test drives of the new Si. If ya like FWD cars, and want something for sport at around $20K or under, it may indeed be the Civic Si. With 197HP, the engine sings. Add a blower and get around 295HP. Game over.

Personally, in the price range I would consider an Acura RSX next year, if looking for FWD. And since I don't live in snow country, my first choice in $20K on up cars would be RWD.
As for the Cobalt - good econo car in the less than $15K class.

Another option for HP per dollar may be a used 2002 Camaro SS.

loren

aveman · December 2005

A point was made about the Civic Si regarding noise. on a road trip, they mentioned that they wished the car would shut up after a while. Some may find the power band of the Cobalt SS more to their liking.

cdavidhess · December 2005

I own a 2006 ION 3 manual with the 2.4 L engine. The MSRP was a little below $16,000---much lower priced than a comparable Cobalt SS.

allfiredup · December 2005

I wonder how '06 sales are going for the ION? The prices are pretty dang good this year with GM's new pricing structure. Particularly if you can refrain from ordering too many options. The ION2 effectively competes against cars like the Kia Rio, Chevy Aveo, Suzuki Forenza and Hyundai Accent. That is by no means an insult, just to say that with an ION2 with few options you can get a lot more car for the same money as those Korean imports. It's also cheaper than cars like the Kia Spectra, Hyundai Elantra, GM's own Chevy Cobalt and a lot of others in the lower end of the subcompact class, while offering as many features and good performance.

vanman1 · December 2005

I see a lot of IONs areound these days. I would think the car is selling pretty well these days from what I see. The 06 is much improved over the first year.

Chevrolet Cobalt

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