I think that the resale value will be based upon how much people desire this car. I feel very reassured that, rental fleets notwithstanding, this particular Chrysler will do alright in the long run. I feel more confident about its resale value than for my other consideration, the Pontiac GTO.
Ultimately, I will buy the car that suits me and that I feel good about. If resale value was my only consideration, I'd buy a Camry. I like cars with personality and flair, however, and it looks like the 300C has it all.
Bigdaddycoats: I went to the premiere night event, and I was probably the only person in my 30's, but remember, we're talking an up market car, not a Scion or a Saturn. I drove a 3.5 300 and it was surprisingly responsive. For me, though, I have to get the Hemi.
Part if the desirability now is that they are brand new and a little hard to get at the moment as they slowly ramp up production and distribution during the initial few weeks. That is going away soon since the production will be massive soon. Then the rental fleets dumping 10 month old used 300s to the used car market constantly starting next year.
I expect it resale to be similar to a Concorde or 300M if the reliability is no worse than those.
The Concorde, on it's best day, never had this kind of hysteria. I'm not saying that the resale value is guaranteed, but I still believe that this car will endure well. AND, I believe that Chrysler will gradually raise prices on new ones anyway.
What Chrysler SHOULD do is to put a vastly different grille on base cars and fleet vehicles. This would protect those that are shelling out good money on top-level 300's, and ensure that the rental agencies don't ruin the resale value, like they have with the Taurus, Grand Am, etc. American car makers have to realize that poor resale value will impact future sales.
anybody else having trouble with the salesmen at Chrysler dealers? I haven't run across salesmen this bad in a long time, but I don't normally shop Chryslers though. Is this normal? Frustrating as hell.
Well, had a busy afternoon, so only got to drive it 60 miles tonight between the wife and I. First impressions: The seat belt chime HAS GOT TO GO.......I imagine that it's tied into other alerts, so can't just disconnect the chime. Going to order my conventional spare tomorrow, and will order the 300's tech manual also. That will have the schematic.
Nice ride, not a hint of pulling either right or left that some have reported. Judging by the looks of the thread design on the 18" Continentals, it looks like the outer thread will wear really early. Not sure what the mileage expectency is yet for these.
The dealer spent 40 minutes with us setting the memory stuff, and when I got home to have the wife try it out, it went into driver 2 mode (the wife's) nicely, but then when I pressed the 1 mode (me), it reverted to mine, but quickly back to 2 mode, WITH ME IN THE SEAT !! SQUISH !!! So, I need to dig my nose in the manual this weekend, for sure.
The visability to backup is poor in that the only thing I see is the window's backup light. The trunk is not visable at all. I haven't tried to figure out how to use the backup sensor yet, and the rearview mirror is supposed to do something too, when in reverse, according to the dealer. We neeed time to learn all this stuff I guess.
One more thing, speed creep, if I can use that phrase. On our Lebaron, we had the digital dash, which showed the speed in BIG numerals, on the 300 we went to a timepiece. more or less. Trying to hold the speed at 30, we'd look at the speedometer and see we were actually doing 40. Again, we'll need time to get used to this. Overall, I'm satisified with it, the power isn't explosive unless you ask for it. I took it for a 3 mile run on I-29, and floored it from 30 mph, and was cruising at 85 in one breath, with plenty of top end to go yet. The engine / power is very mild for in-town driving, very managable for the wife.
One more thing, the dealer has a software update for the engine that will add a few more hp, so he says. I'll be notified when to bring it in. Every car has quirks, I'll find them in time, but so far have to say I'm impressed.....
The Foothill Ranch, CA dealer had one white, one silver, two black, one dark blue, and one magnesium(sold) car today.
Plus, top DCX management presented a check to the local science education center.
The magnesium is a very nice green gray, but it looks blue under certain artificial lights.
I drove the dark blue 300C, and it was very quiet and smooth. The HEMI will fool you - it is faster than you might think because the car is so quiet and smooth. I would not ruin the car by making it louder, as the quiet will be something to enjoy as the miles roll on. For comparison, I drove our Mercedes C230 on the same route and it was nosier and rougher.
The 300C has many very nice features, such as the automatic exterior mirors, and the low automatic climate control to keep the fan noice down.
I had no problems seeing out of the car (I am 6' 1"), and even fit under the sunroof. I wanted to back the car into the place where it had been, and could easily see out to do so, although the view would be even better with a rear spoiler. The salesman apparently could not allow customers to do so, as there were light poles on the walkway. The deep dashboard and hood do remind me of big cars from the past.
They did not have any cars with the two tone interior, so I will want to see it.
The grille covers part of the bumper bar, and my wife and I agreed that the car would look better if the grille stopped just above the metal bar in the bumper, making it more of a rectangel than a square.
The 300C compares very favorably with other cars in the middle to high $30,000 range, but more impressive is how well it compares to cars costing several multiples of its price.
in the medium gray color. I thought I would like it more than the light gray (white) interior but I was wrong. Car looks nicer in the light gray to me. I was surprised.
Went to the Chrysler dealer where I ordered my 300C tonight (San Jose, CA). Was already 8:30pm. Quite a few people there, but not as busy as I would have thought. Finally test drove a 300C. Hmm, very nice! I love the ride. But quite different from driving a 300M. Different feeling being able to see the hood. Also, need to get used to the much smaller side windows. I have to say, the 300M does feel sportier. Nevertheless I really like the new 300C and can't wait to get. Liked the quality of the interior. The HEMI for sure feels great.
Agreed. I was interested to see, with the reported acceleration times, that 2nd gear goes to 75 mph-ish. And 2000 rpm = approx 70 mph. (Torque is a wonderful thing.) - Ray Impressed . . .
Sounds like you have a winner; hope my shows up soon (actually built 28 Feb but has been on a mysterious hold since then).
Can you get some specifics on the software upgrade you mentioned? This is the kind of maintenance thing that some dealers ignore/don't know about/keep secret from customers.
I drove a 300C with a Hemi on Wednesday. My salesperson, from whom I always buy, invited me in the day prior to the premier. Real nice car. But, 350HP is a little overkill for me.
Anyway, I got pricing on a touring model with a sunroof. MSRP is 28290. Price quoted was 27300 - $1000.00 loyalty rebate. Net price $26300. Dealership is in MA.
Doesn't sound as if they are gouging like some other dealers.
I didn't ask for a price since I already placed an order on Monday for $2000 below sticker ($1000 Fleet/Costco discount & $1000 Chrysler Loyalty Rebate). Sticker for a pretty much loaded 300C last night was $38685. The sticker did not have any markup on it. However I didn't ask if they were asking for more than sticker. So I am paying $36685 for mine. Beats the $56k my co-worker just paid for his X5. And that is just the one with the V6. Ok, I know it is a different class of car (SUV). Still...
In response to an earlier post, Chrysler Financial lists the residual value of the 300C as $18,807 after 36 months. That's 57% residual. Never leased b4 but I'm thinking of leasing the C for various reasons.
Yes seminole_kev I have had the same experience as yourself lastweek. Don't count on salespeople to be knowledgeable or helpful do online research for the information you want re:pricing, options, warranty. When you've found everything you need to know you will be in a better position to deal with these salespeople. However buy what is good for you and not be dissuaded by some suited monkey.
I do not think the 300C will hold value past the next few years. No matter what it's still a Chrysler in most of the public eyes. Now days resale is way down for any car. If that 57% residual is real, I'd jump on it before it goes any lower. I'm sure it will.
They had one 300C, constantly being test driven. I didn't even see it. Otherwise, they had three of which to kick the tires, one base available to drive and two Limiteds on the floor. All in all I was suitably impressed. The fit and finish were good and I agree with other posters that it looks even better in person than the pictures. There are a few negatives. The c pillars block rear/side visibility, as with the Pacifica, and the sheer size of the car. For me, it is just too large. I'm not knocking the car, however, just saying it's too big for me. If the rental fleet volume and potential police cruiser use, do not negate its resale and it proves reliable, I feel they have a real winner here. It IS a lot of car for the money and well done.
BTW, the salesman told me that someone who bought a 300C who owned an S600 Merc., said it drives better than the Merc. Hmmmmh.
I notice on some pictures, the 300C has something black in the middle of the roof just above the rear window and on some pictures of the car its not there. What is it ? Does it have something to do with the navigation system or Sirius radio system? Thanks!
Anyone get the upgraded sound system, which includes a higher-powered amp and subwoofer? My question is, where exactly is the subwoofer? I assume in the trunk, but have you seen it?
Fuzzy, the residual will definitely only go down from here. I think the 300 benefits some from being an '05 model. In 36 months the car will "only" be 2 years old. For instance the residual on an '05 Pacifica is 58% while the '04 is 55%. The C came out to 57% while the base 300 was 52%. I calculated the '04 300M at 43% and the Sebring at 36%. These numbers are based on info from Chrysler Financial so take it for what its worth. MSRP was used as the cap. cost although you can get most of these cars for far below that.
MikeMullin6 asked: Can you get some specifics on the software upgrade you mentioned?
It has something to do with emissions control, and with this software adjustment, there's a few more hp. The dealer said I'll be called when they receive it. If and when they do, I'll post the bullitin number.
jcz1 asked: where exactly is the subwoofer?
Not sure as all we did was set a few radio stations so far. I'll be going over the bells and whistles this weeekend, and I'll try to find the sub-woofer.
3 year residuals seldom vary between cars by more than a few percentage points. And the car that does yield 55% rather than 52% usually costs $20,000 more (e.g. Lexus). This means you have lost 45% of an additional $20,000 by buying to yield a "higher resale value"! You do the math!
When buying a car, you need to buy what excites and inspires you. They are all a losing proposition as soon as you drive them off the lot, so stop thinking about resale and enjoy your new car!
Has anybody seen this car in the lava red and how does it look. I order my 300c in black but only because I couldn't find the car in red. Does anybody know if you can by pass the computer to get more hp and over ride the governor which kicks in a 130.
Re-programming the computer is complex, and I do not think there is any company which offers the re-programming service for the HEMI engine control computers. One may come along, but here in CA the state regulators went after a number of car computer programming services for violations of the emissions regulations. Changing the top speed limit does not affect emissions, so that should be less of an issue, if someone offers it (or it may be possible to buy the computer or just the software for the European models).
if you override the computer you'd better put some higher speed rated tires on that C...
btw, to anyone wanting more info about the suspension changes. apparently chrysler is changing to different camber bolts on the LX. i don't fully understand how these things work but apparently it fixes drift or pull in the front suspension... so, it appears there was a problem afterall...that ought to give fastdriver some warm and fuzzy feelings!
So have any new 300C owners tried a swap out to high perf. speed rated tires yet?
The 245/55WR18 BFGoodrich g-force KDWS seem like the only game in town (if you want to keep overall diameter close for speedometer and other purposes). It'd be very interesting to see if anyone tried these or another tire swap out yet. If so, did they fit okay on the stock rims and wheel well clearance, or find any other 18" rims that fit (tire rack doesn't list any yet)?
I'm planning to hold out for rumour'd SRT version but if a reasonably good performance tire upgrade swap can be made, that would be one less argument for waiting.
since they don't have any 3-year old 300Cs running around, all they can do is estimate the residual. 57% is a great number and will sure encourage more people to lease the car. Good residual could be a great lease motivator.
I am a little confused about the comments regarding the size of the vehicle. The 300's size is right in line with the Chevy Impala and the Nissan Maxima. I think it is the styling of the vehicle that gives it such a large and robust look.
At first I did not care for the car, but in person the car is absolutely stunning. I would rate it as one of the most distinctive designs in years. The Dodge Magnum is also very good looking. It will be interesting to see how Dodge's sedan version (Charger) looks when it comes out soon. I have seen pictures of it, but only the front which has the Magnum front clip. I would like to see Dodge's treatment of the rear clip/taillights.
for those who asked... if you are referring to the black plastic piece on the inside of the vehicle near the back roof, it's the rear park assist LED indicator.. also, I have the premium sound system and it is absolutely awesome.. my radio installer friends can't figure out where the sub is installed but they also agree that it is an awesome system, especially for $535 upgrade price.
sandbagger- the black thing on the roof is the Satellite radio antenna. the navigation radio antenna is mounted under the front dash on the drivers side .
jameskk1 - the sub is mounted just beside the right rear speaker on the back shelf .its covered by the carpet in the trunk .
To compare size, consult the interior dimensions given in the specifications section on each car on this (Edmunds) site. The 300 is comparable in size to the Lincoln Town Car, BMW 745, Mercedes-Benz S-Class, and other such full-sized cars, but comparable in price to smaller cars.
Hello. New to this board. Looking at the possibility of leasing a new 300C. Quite a car! Saw it a tht e Chicago auto show in early Feb. and got to drive it at the premier night on Thursday. The residual numbers I got from my dealer today are as follows: 27 months-58%, 30 months-55%, 36 months-51%. Those who were given the 36 month figure of 57%, where did you get those numbers?
took out a 'kewl vanilla' 300C for a test drive... wife is looking for a new vehicle as her '01 Subn 4x4 lease has 6 days to go... nice looking outside lines..
the salesman tagged along.. so right away.. no fun...even though he did say to 'goose it' and do what I wanted with it.. I did...
first off .. they wanted sticker plus their baloney-$695 ADP.. Additional Dealer Profit- sticker for useless Sealant...
my wife then drove it.. she liked it.. except for the rear deck and the very limited rear view out the back... since it's her car that means a lot to her...
as for my impressions...and since it wouldn't be 'my car'.. the interior was too plastic-looking .. no pizzazz... the car had some guts.. but there is no way that the car will do 0-60 in 5.3 seconds like they claim.. no way.. no how... my wife has had two new Infiniti Q45's in '92 and '95 that were faster and a lot more car albeit more expensive.. with it's 0-60 in about 6.8 seconds..
so I'll say again.. as I've said on this board as well as the Durango board after test driving one with a Hem-mee..the Hem-mee is a gimmick... although this one is faster than the 4wd Durango obviously...
no way this car is worth paying sticker.. to me anyway.. in 6 months they'll have big rebates on them as Chrysler stops playing games like they have been by holding back the units in distribution centers to popup the price and profits over the past three months.... nasty stuff.. invoice price less rebates would be the price to shoot for...
the salesman did compare it at least 4 times to a Cadillac and emphasized that the Caddy would be $15K more..
having driven older Hem-mees way back in the 60's and now having driven the 300C.. this is definitely NOT the Hem-mee of old.. much more ooomph in the 300C version than the Durango's but that is obviously apples and oranges comparing those two vehicles.. .. had a couple of friends with older Hem-mees back then when I had my '65 Goat..both the street 426- 365hp version as well as one with the dual quad race setup.. not even close..
.. they quoted me a 50% residual on a 39 month lease 15K miles year.... I usually do a 36 month lease maximum.. so that stunk... then they wouldn't give me a Lease Factor # until I bothered them enuff that they finally said it was equivilent to 3 1/2%... right away I know they are trying to 'play me'.. I usually can figure a lease faster than the Lease mgr can..
the Chrysler site.. if you w*rk the numbers on the 300C.. 39 months.. residual comes out to 50%.. just what they gave me.. the 36 month lease which they said they don't do.. they lie.. has a 56% residual on that site both are at 12K miles a year.. the 36 month lease is actuall cheaper than the 39 month lease.. http://www.chryslerfinancial.com/payments/estimator.jsp
a more sophisticated car.. yes... looks like the search for a vehicle for my wife continues..unless somehow in the next week they lower their prices to invioice.. which ain't gonna happen..
you seem to forget that 300c is a luxury car first and foremost...and not a hotrod rubber burner of the old hemi sort. think about these things...the new hemi is considerably smaller than the 426. it is setup to deliver a luxury feel and not the boy racer feel of the old hemi. it has a very tall rear axle ratio (2.82:1). new cars demand excellent NVH control...this in combination with electronic nannies will give a seat-of-the-pants feel that doesn't support reality. the hemi in the LX does 0-60mph sub 6 seconds...it's been proven time and again. i know your aim is to belittle the hemi...but test after test prove it's a damn good engine...if you don't like it, don't buy one!
not my aim to belittle the Hem-mee.. you missed my point.. they.. Chrysler.. are making the outrageous claims.. not I... if it's not a rubber burner.. then why are they touting it at 0-60 in 5.3 seconds.. their numbers not mine..
what I'm trying to say is that the car is a nice car.. but I can't consider it worth the MSRP and/or better..Hem-mee or no Hem-mee.. if you don't think Chrysler is playing games with their marketing and distribution, I saw at least seven 300's today in the salesman's book where they have ship dates of January and February.. that's in the past.. like two to three months ago.. he even pointed that fact out... he said they could be in tomorrow or in a month or so...he didn't know.. somebody is playing games..
if you feel like you'd want to pay or did pay the full price on one more power to you..
get your facts straight. chrysler estimates the hemi C to run to 60 in 6.3 seconds. the sub 6 second times have been achieved by auto mags...! chrysler is understating 0-60 times...
lastly, the LXs are most certainly a very good value...just compare them to anything around their price points...they simply smash the competition on size...performance and looks! but, yes i would never pay over MSRP for any car!!
Not a rubber burner?? I remember when sub-6 second 0-60mph times were the fastest thing on the road. I think the point is: this car isn't a sports car or even a sports sedan for that matter. It's simply a large sedan with adequate power (lots of power to some, not much for others). Remember, more power comes after the engine gains a few miles on it. Just test driving the 300C and stomping on the go-pedal is not an accurate way to measure how fast it is... compared to what?
Hemi motor a gimmick?? Maybe a marketing strategy perhaps. But with acceleration numbers that best a lot of sports cars/coupes I don't think the Hemi is a "gimmick" one bit. It performs rather nicely. Excuse me sir with your $50,000 Porsche Boxter, but my big-ol-hunk-o-metal American land barge is going to out-accelerate your luxo-yuppy sports car... Step aside please. Have a nice day.
Finally got to drive the 300C. I was very impressed with the acceleration, road handling, quietness. It's much quicker than the 3.5 - like night and day. Whomever doesn't think this car is fast enough is out of touch. Try comparing it to what's out there today and for the price too. How can you compare it to the hemi's of the sixties?-even if those may have been quicker or not could it handle like this new one? And what about the quietness? This new one is much faster than you might think because of the smooth transmission and slightly touching the accelerator to go from 60-80+ is effortless. I was driving about 98mph for a short time without a sweat. It's on top of my list. I'm waiting to see when the tire pressure monitors are available. Anyone know when? Still haven't seen the Lava or the Blue. Not crazy about color choices. Never wanted a white car but the Cool Vanilla is an off white and it's not bad. The Magnesium is not bad either. Don't love either of them so I'm waiting to see the other 2 colors I haven't seen yet. Also wondering what others that bought the car prefer for the interior colors.
I am with you both - if someone doesn't like the car, fine, but please don't just bash the car 'cause you can't afford it. The 300C performance is right there with the famous muscle cars of the past. Or better! And, as stated, it is a large comfy sedan. Not an Impala .... sorry to burst any bubbles. Try one on, you'll see that it is a big, nice sedan with enough guts to make you smile and enough MPG to make you "need" the HEMI. Yes, my boy, it is a HEMI!
Sounds like the 300c is a great car for another era....one with less crowded roads (just try driving this baby on the California freeways during any holiday - you'll be sucking taillights most of the trip).
Still, would the 300C be more appealing if Chrysler decides to stick one of the MB racing engines in it (600 - 800 horsepower)?
Caution, long post.... I spent an hour catching up on 400 messages, as surgery can keep you from a computer.
I'm very glad to see, via pictures on the E-Bay site, the rear turn signals are amber, not red, and not that stupid, lame combined turn/stop/tail combo, which I've hated for many a year. One bulb fails, you lose three different signals. Not that turn signals are used that often, anyway, but people who pump their brakes can send odd signals when one brake light bulb is out, and they're not turning.
Good to see there have been clarifications on the 0-60 and 5-60 C&D figures. Like has been stated before, both here and in the magazine, the 0-60 figure employs as much power-braking as the transmission will tolerate. Automatics are coupled to the engine via a torque conveter. The torque converter does just that, converts torque, and more 'power' is sent to the transmission/rear wheels if the engine is already spinning in the meat of its torque band, which is above idle.
This is similar to launching a manual- transmissioned car by revving it up to say, 3K RPM, or with a 'torque light' motor (like the RX-8 or Honda S2000) more like 7K RPM, and dumping the clutch. It doesn't smell as bad, though...clutch discs generate a putrid, and expensive, smell when burning, which clutch drops will do.
C&D has stated, more than once, the 5-60 time they post simulates how those making payments or liable for repairs would launch the vehicle. Yes, they're hard on vehicles. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way, and it's why I've subscribed to C&D for 24 years.
Ack, I just had a 'feeling old attack', at all of 35 years old.
Glad to see the $1K 'loyalty' bonus isn't dependent on a trade-in, or the like, as we have a '95 Intrepid ES which we're gonna have a hard time parting with, and I'm not about to get positively robbed on trade-in. The car takes abuse very well. No quality issues with it, either. There were transmission issues with it in the early years, but *I* think it was because people had become accustomed to long mileages between tranny fluid changes, if at all, *and* didn't heed the warnings about using the prescribed fluid (ATF 3, they're not kidding). I'm on the OEM tranny @ 117K, and like I said, I'm not easy on the machine.
Now to figure out why we'd need four cars, and where to put at least one of them. In three years, my prediction on when two year old C's with the SRT suspension package (please let that happen) will have depreciated to a good used price, the Intrepid should have about 150K on it, which will make it easier to part with.
Size. The C is under 200 inches. This makes it a '5 meter car'. 5 meters is a crucial figure in Europe and the 300M was designed with the same magic number in mind, so the car CAN'T be that small. Town Car-size, it ain't, thankfully. The TC is 215", FWIW. The Maxima 193.5". In-between is good. ;-)
The C is at least 5 inches shorter than the '95 Intrepid I now drive, and is likely within two inches of the M. Fine. I like big, comfy, seriously competent and quick sedans. Don't like sports cars, never have, never will.
Ironic the Q45 has been thrown around in recent messages, as I really like the newest design but refuse to part with the $60K it's gonna take to play that game. I was then holding out for the M45, same engine/drivetrain for $15K less, but orange gauge lights are intolerable to me.
The "Hemi" is not a gimmick, it is a bona-fide engineering design pertaining to the shape of a cylinder head's combustion chamber. No, the shape of the chamber does not account for X amount more horsepower than any other modern design, defacto. There are many other factors at work, the chamber's shape is just one of these factors. It's a marketing slogan, yes...but back in 1955, the hemispherical combustion chamber was a leap forward in cylinder head design, but now it's not a big thing, really. It helped in the late-60's, too, but the wedge-head engines were more streetable and produced similar power.
'Speed creep'. Dude, try driving a Suzuki Grand Vitara (my old "Colorado car") then go to a Lexus RX300 (wife's new car). You wanna talk creep?! 45 in the Zuk feels like, well, the Lexus never feels like that! I routinely find myself at 85+ in the Lexus when the sound/feel tells my brain I'm at 60...maybe. I'm trying to recondition my senses, but it's difficult. Even with the Intrepid being a 'harsh' as it is, it's still much quieter and a better driver than the Zuk...even with the Suzuki having 65K fewer miles and a 4 year advantage over the Dodge.
Caution, leasing is almost always a bad idea, fiscally. You might get lucky early in the game on this one, as it's a totally new vehicle. Personally, I keep 'em 'till I kill 'em, so there's no point.
Query, do any of the owners have adjustable pedals? If so, are they tied to the seat memory? Also, are the outside mirrors connected to the memory as well? Is the steering wheel's position tied to it? I'm just gonna have to go look at one.
The fuel door might have a locking system similar to those used on Mercedes of old. Look inside the fuel door's 'frame' and see if there is a pin which can engage an area on the inside of the door itself. Might be the door locks only when the power locks are used to lock the doors. Was a neat design, IMHO.
Now, bring on the stiffer suspension and wider tires. Personally, taller wheels/tires don't do anything for me...as long as they're wide, with 50-series sidewalls or shorter, I don't care if they're 17", or whatever. I was quite surprised to see tires of only 225/60/18 on the C, figuring they'd be at least 255/50/18's, but so it goes. It is a 'family sedan'. Heh, heh.
I'd like to ask what some of these people driving Suburbans with 20"+ wheels and tires are thinking...if you want a good-handling car, don't start with a truck.
Comments
Ultimately, I will buy the car that suits me and that I feel good about. If resale value was my only consideration, I'd buy a Camry. I like cars with personality and flair, however, and it looks like the 300C has it all.
Bigdaddycoats: I went to the premiere night event, and I was probably the only person in my 30's, but remember, we're talking an up market car, not a Scion or a Saturn. I drove a 3.5 300 and it was surprisingly responsive. For me, though, I have to get the Hemi.
I expect it resale to be similar to a Concorde or 300M if the reliability is no worse than those.
What Chrysler SHOULD do is to put a vastly different grille on base cars and fleet vehicles. This would protect those that are shelling out good money on top-level 300's, and ensure that the rental agencies don't ruin the resale value, like they have with the Taurus, Grand Am, etc. American car makers have to realize that poor resale value will impact future sales.
First impressions: The seat belt chime HAS GOT TO GO.......I imagine that it's tied into other alerts, so can't just disconnect the chime. Going to order my conventional spare tomorrow, and will order the 300's tech manual also. That will have the schematic.
Nice ride, not a hint of pulling either right or left that some have reported. Judging by the looks of the thread design on the 18" Continentals, it looks like the outer thread will wear really early. Not sure what the mileage expectency is yet for these.
The dealer spent 40 minutes with us setting the memory stuff, and when I got home to have the wife try it out, it went into driver 2 mode (the wife's) nicely, but then when I pressed the 1 mode (me), it reverted to mine, but quickly back to 2 mode, WITH ME IN THE SEAT !! SQUISH !!!
So, I need to dig my nose in the manual this weekend, for sure.
The visability to backup is poor in that the only thing I see is the window's backup light. The trunk is not visable at all. I haven't tried to figure out how to use the backup sensor yet, and
the rearview mirror is supposed to do something too, when in reverse, according to the dealer. We neeed time to learn all this stuff I guess.
One more thing, speed creep, if I can use that phrase. On our Lebaron, we had the digital dash, which showed the speed in BIG numerals, on the 300 we went to a timepiece. more or less. Trying to hold the speed at 30, we'd look at the speedometer and see we were actually doing 40. Again, we'll need time to get used to this.
Overall, I'm satisified with it, the power isn't explosive unless you ask for it. I took it for a 3 mile
run on I-29, and floored it from 30 mph, and was cruising at 85 in one breath, with plenty of top end to go yet. The engine / power is very mild for in-town driving, very managable for the wife.
One more thing, the dealer has a software update for the engine that will add a few more hp, so he says. I'll be notified when to bring it in. Every car has quirks, I'll find them in time, but so far
have to say I'm impressed.....
Plus, top DCX management presented a check to the local science education center.
The magnesium is a very nice green gray, but it looks blue under certain artificial lights.
I drove the dark blue 300C, and it was very quiet and smooth. The HEMI will fool you - it is faster than you might think because the car is so quiet and smooth. I would not ruin the car by making it louder, as the quiet will be something to enjoy as the miles roll on. For comparison, I drove our Mercedes C230 on the same route and it was nosier and rougher.
The 300C has many very nice features, such as the automatic exterior mirors, and the low automatic climate control to keep the fan noice down.
I had no problems seeing out of the car (I am 6' 1"), and even fit under the sunroof. I wanted to back the car into the place where it had been, and could easily see out to do so, although the view would be even better with a rear spoiler. The salesman apparently could not allow customers to do so, as there were light poles on the walkway. The deep dashboard and hood do remind me of big cars from the past.
They did not have any cars with the two tone interior, so I will want to see it.
The grille covers part of the bumper bar, and my wife and I agreed that the car would look better if the grille stopped just above the metal bar in the bumper, making it more of a rectangel than a square.
The 300C compares very favorably with other cars in the middle to high $30,000 range, but more impressive is how well it compares to cars costing several multiples of its price.
http://www.dcxmediaservices.com/videoptrs/wms/dctv/Apr04/Magnum_M- usic_300k.wvx
Agreed. I was interested to see, with the reported acceleration times, that 2nd gear goes to 75 mph-ish.
And 2000 rpm = approx 70 mph.
(Torque is a wonderful thing.)
- Ray
Impressed . . .
Can you get some specifics on the software upgrade you mentioned? This is the kind of maintenance thing that some dealers ignore/don't know about/keep secret from customers.
I drove a 300C with a Hemi on Wednesday. My salesperson, from whom I always buy, invited me in the day prior to the premier. Real nice car. But, 350HP is a little overkill for me.
Anyway, I got pricing on a touring model with a sunroof. MSRP is 28290. Price quoted was 27300 - $1000.00 loyalty rebate. Net price $26300. Dealership is in MA.
Doesn't sound as if they are gouging like some other dealers.
Don't count on salespeople to be knowledgeable or helpful do online research for the information you want re:pricing, options, warranty.
When you've found everything you need to know you will be in a better position to deal with these salespeople. However buy what is good for you and not be dissuaded by some suited monkey.
BTW, the salesman told me that someone who bought a 300C who owned an S600 Merc., said it drives better than the Merc. Hmmmmh.
Excuse me for being cynical, but could this have been a little puffery on the part of the salesman?
There is a rumor that Chrysler would like to reduce sales-related lying by dealership employees 30% by the year 2015.
It has something to do with emissions control, and with this software adjustment, there's a few more hp. The dealer said I'll be called when they receive it. If and when they do, I'll post the bullitin number.
jcz1 asked: where exactly is the subwoofer?
Not sure as all we did was set a few radio stations so far. I'll be going over the bells and whistles this weeekend, and I'll try to find the sub-woofer.
3 year residuals seldom vary between cars by more than a few percentage points. And the car that does yield 55% rather than 52% usually costs $20,000 more (e.g. Lexus). This means you have lost 45% of an additional $20,000 by buying to yield a "higher resale value"! You do the math!
When buying a car, you need to buy what excites and inspires you. They are all a losing proposition as soon as you drive them off the lot, so stop thinking about resale and enjoy your new car!
Does anybody know if you can by pass the computer to get more hp and over ride the governor which kicks in a 130.
if you override the computer you'd better put some higher speed rated tires on that C...
btw, to anyone wanting more info about the suspension changes. apparently chrysler is changing to different camber bolts on the LX. i don't fully understand how these things work but apparently it fixes drift or pull in the front suspension... so, it appears there was a problem afterall...that ought to give fastdriver some warm and fuzzy feelings!
The 245/55WR18 BFGoodrich g-force KDWS seem like the only game in town (if you want to keep overall diameter close for speedometer and other purposes). It'd be very interesting to see if anyone tried these or another tire swap out yet. If so, did they fit okay on the stock rims and wheel well clearance, or find any other 18" rims that fit (tire rack doesn't list any yet)?
I'm planning to hold out for rumour'd SRT version but if a reasonably good performance tire upgrade swap can be made, that would be one less argument for waiting.
Car was great. I only wish the side mirrors were bigger.
Lumbar support is adjusted with a mechanical lever, but not that big of a deal. My Acura TL-S also has a lever like that.
I like the power-activated tilt/telescoping steering wheel and power adjustable pedals.
Materials felt quite good. I liked the loovers of the AC vents.
At first I did not care for the car, but in person the car is absolutely stunning. I would rate it as one of the most distinctive designs in years. The Dodge Magnum is also very good looking. It will be interesting to see how Dodge's sedan version (Charger) looks when it comes out soon. I have seen pictures of it, but only the front which has the Magnum front clip. I would like to see Dodge's treatment of the rear clip/taillights.
jameskk1 - the sub is mounted just beside the right rear speaker on the back shelf .its covered by the carpet in the trunk .
the salesman tagged along.. so right away.. no fun...even though he did say to 'goose it' and do what I wanted with it.. I did...
first off .. they wanted sticker plus their baloney-$695 ADP.. Additional Dealer Profit- sticker for useless Sealant...
my wife then drove it.. she liked it.. except for the rear deck and the very limited rear view out the back... since it's her car that means a lot to her...
as for my impressions...and since it wouldn't be 'my car'.. the interior was too plastic-looking .. no pizzazz... the car had some guts.. but there is no way that the car will do 0-60 in 5.3 seconds like they claim.. no way.. no how... my wife has had two new Infiniti Q45's in '92 and '95 that were faster and a lot more car albeit more expensive.. with it's 0-60 in about 6.8 seconds..
so I'll say again.. as I've said on this board as well as the Durango board after test driving one with a Hem-mee..the Hem-mee is a gimmick... although this one is faster than the 4wd Durango obviously...
no way this car is worth paying sticker.. to me anyway.. in 6 months they'll have big rebates on them as Chrysler stops playing games like they have been by holding back the units in distribution centers to popup the price and profits over the past three months.... nasty stuff.. invoice price less rebates would be the price to shoot for...
the salesman did compare it at least 4 times to a Cadillac and emphasized that the Caddy would be $15K more..
having driven older Hem-mees way back in the 60's and now having driven the 300C.. this is definitely NOT the Hem-mee of old.. much more ooomph in the 300C version than the Durango's but that is obviously apples and oranges comparing those two vehicles.. .. had a couple of friends with older Hem-mees back then when I had my '65 Goat..both the street 426- 365hp version as well as one with the dual quad race setup.. not even close..
.. they quoted me a 50% residual on a 39 month lease 15K miles year.... I usually do a 36 month lease maximum.. so that stunk... then they wouldn't give me a Lease Factor # until I bothered them enuff that they finally said it was equivilent to 3 1/2%... right away I know they are trying to 'play me'.. I usually can figure a lease faster than the Lease mgr can..
the Chrysler site.. if you w*rk the numbers on the 300C.. 39 months.. residual comes out to 50%.. just what they gave me.. the 36 month lease which they said they don't do.. they lie.. has a 56% residual on that site both are at 12K miles a year.. the 36 month lease is actuall cheaper than the 39 month lease..
http://www.chryslerfinancial.com/payments/estimator.jsp
a more sophisticated car.. yes... looks like the search for a vehicle for my wife continues..unless somehow in the next week they lower their prices to invioice.. which ain't gonna happen..
you seem to forget that 300c is a luxury car first and foremost...and not a hotrod rubber burner of the old hemi sort. think about these things...the new hemi is considerably smaller than the 426. it is setup to deliver a luxury feel and not the boy racer feel of the old hemi. it has a very tall rear axle ratio (2.82:1). new cars demand excellent NVH control...this in combination with electronic nannies will give a seat-of-the-pants feel that doesn't support reality. the hemi in the LX does 0-60mph sub 6 seconds...it's been proven time and again. i know your aim is to belittle the hemi...but test after test prove it's a damn good engine...if you don't like it, don't buy one!
what I'm trying to say is that the car is a nice car.. but I can't consider it worth the MSRP and/or better..Hem-mee or no Hem-mee.. if you don't think Chrysler is playing games with their marketing and distribution, I saw at least seven 300's today in the salesman's book where they have ship dates of January and February.. that's in the past.. like two to three months ago.. he even pointed that fact out... he said they could be in tomorrow or in a month or so...he didn't know.. somebody is playing games..
if you feel like you'd want to pay or did pay the full price on one more power to you..
get your facts straight. chrysler estimates the hemi C to run to 60 in 6.3 seconds. the sub 6 second times have been achieved by auto mags...! chrysler is understating 0-60 times...
lastly, the LXs are most certainly a very good value...just compare them to anything around their price points...they simply smash the competition on size...performance and looks! but, yes i would never pay over MSRP for any car!!
Remember, more power comes after the engine gains a few miles on it. Just test driving the 300C and stomping on the go-pedal is not an accurate way to measure how fast it is... compared to what?
Hemi motor a gimmick?? Maybe a marketing strategy perhaps. But with acceleration numbers that best a lot of sports cars/coupes I don't think the Hemi is a "gimmick" one bit. It performs rather nicely. Excuse me sir with your $50,000 Porsche Boxter, but my big-ol-hunk-o-metal American land barge is going to out-accelerate your luxo-yuppy sports car... Step aside please. Have a nice day.
Why don't you get your wife another [slow] Q45?
And by the way it is not Chrysler who is touting 5.3 seconds. Sub-6 tests were done by car magazines.
Still, would the 300C be more appealing if Chrysler decides to stick one of the MB racing engines in it (600 - 800 horsepower)?
Caution, long post.... I spent an hour catching up on 400 messages, as surgery can keep you from a computer.
I'm very glad to see, via pictures on the E-Bay site, the rear turn signals are amber, not red, and not that stupid, lame combined turn/stop/tail combo, which I've hated for many a year. One bulb fails, you lose three different signals. Not that turn signals are used that often, anyway, but people who pump their brakes can send odd signals when one brake light bulb is out, and they're not turning.
Good to see there have been clarifications on the 0-60 and 5-60 C&D figures. Like has been stated before, both here and in the magazine, the 0-60 figure employs as much power-braking as the transmission will tolerate. Automatics are coupled to the engine via a torque conveter. The torque converter does just that, converts torque, and more 'power' is sent to the transmission/rear wheels if the engine is already spinning in the meat of its torque band, which is above idle.
This is similar to launching a manual- transmissioned car by revving it up to say, 3K RPM, or with a 'torque light' motor (like the RX-8 or Honda S2000) more like 7K RPM, and dumping the clutch. It doesn't smell as bad, though...clutch discs generate a putrid, and expensive, smell when burning, which clutch drops will do.
C&D has stated, more than once, the 5-60 time they post simulates how those making payments or liable for repairs would launch the vehicle. Yes, they're hard on vehicles. Personally, I wouldn't have it any other way, and it's why I've subscribed to C&D for 24 years.
Ack, I just had a 'feeling old attack', at all of 35 years old.
Glad to see the $1K 'loyalty' bonus isn't dependent on a trade-in, or the like, as we have a '95 Intrepid ES which we're gonna have a hard time parting with, and I'm not about to get positively robbed on trade-in. The car takes abuse very well. No quality issues with it, either. There were transmission issues with it in the early years, but *I* think it was because people had become accustomed to long mileages between tranny fluid changes, if at all, *and* didn't heed the warnings about using the prescribed fluid (ATF 3, they're not kidding). I'm on the OEM tranny @ 117K, and like I said, I'm not easy on the machine.
Now to figure out why we'd need four cars, and where to put at least one of them. In three years, my prediction on when two year old C's with the SRT suspension package (please let that happen) will have depreciated to a good used price, the Intrepid should have about 150K on it, which will make it easier to part with.
Size. The C is under 200 inches. This makes it a '5 meter car'. 5 meters is a crucial figure in Europe and the 300M was designed with the same magic number in mind, so the car CAN'T be that small. Town Car-size, it ain't, thankfully. The TC is 215", FWIW. The Maxima 193.5". In-between is good. ;-)
The C is at least 5 inches shorter than the '95 Intrepid I now drive, and is likely within two inches of the M. Fine. I like big, comfy, seriously competent and quick sedans. Don't like sports cars, never have, never will.
Ironic the Q45 has been thrown around in recent messages, as I really like the newest design but refuse to part with the $60K it's gonna take to play that game. I was then holding out for the M45, same engine/drivetrain for $15K less, but orange gauge lights are intolerable to me.
The "Hemi" is not a gimmick, it is a bona-fide engineering design pertaining to the shape of a cylinder head's combustion chamber. No, the shape of the chamber does not account for X amount more horsepower than any other modern design, defacto. There are many other factors at work, the chamber's shape is just one of these factors. It's a marketing slogan, yes...but back in 1955, the hemispherical combustion chamber was a leap forward in cylinder head design, but now it's not a big thing, really. It helped in the late-60's, too, but the wedge-head engines were more streetable and produced similar power.
'Speed creep'. Dude, try driving a Suzuki Grand Vitara (my old "Colorado car") then go to a Lexus RX300 (wife's new car). You wanna talk creep?! 45 in the Zuk feels like, well, the Lexus never feels like that! I routinely find myself at 85+ in the Lexus when the sound/feel tells my brain I'm at 60...maybe. I'm trying to recondition my senses, but it's difficult. Even with the Intrepid being a 'harsh' as it is, it's still much quieter and a better driver than the Zuk...even with the Suzuki having 65K fewer miles and a 4 year advantage over the Dodge.
Caution, leasing is almost always a bad idea, fiscally. You might get lucky early in the game on this one, as it's a totally new vehicle. Personally, I keep 'em 'till I kill 'em, so there's no point.
Query, do any of the owners have adjustable pedals? If so, are they tied to the seat memory? Also, are the outside mirrors connected to the memory as well? Is the steering wheel's position tied to it? I'm just gonna have to go look at one.
The fuel door might have a locking system similar to those used on Mercedes of old. Look inside the fuel door's 'frame' and see if there is a pin which can engage an area on the inside of the door itself. Might be the door locks only when the power locks are used to lock the doors. Was a neat design, IMHO.
Now, bring on the stiffer suspension and wider tires. Personally, taller wheels/tires don't do anything for me...as long as they're wide, with 50-series sidewalls or shorter, I don't care if they're 17", or whatever. I was quite surprised to see tires of only 225/60/18 on the C, figuring they'd be at least 255/50/18's, but so it goes. It is a 'family sedan'. Heh, heh.
I'd like to ask what some of these people driving Suburbans with 20"+ wheels and tires are thinking...if you want a good-handling car, don't start with a truck.