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Long story short: dealer had two AWD 300C's in; only one was dealer prepped. While we were awaiting the passing of the keys to test the car, apparently a long time loyal customer phoned the dealer to buy the car sight unseen. Dealer said, "you may get in the car, but not drive it -- if the person buys the car as of 6PM, we'll prep the other car on Monday and you can drive that one." I understand.
My non-driving impressions:
Note -- prior to this, my wife and I had come to the conclusion that the most impressive American car we had ever tested was a 2005 Cadillac SRX V6 with the sport lux package (MSRP $54,000+)!
The interior of this 300C AWD (dark grey leather) was as nice as, or perhaps better, than the Cadillac. The power actuated steering column and sound system were excellent, the seats were firm -- the view over the hood is HUGE, bigger than the SRX's. The switchgear glided and snicked and thunked with the requisite verisimilitude of "premium quality."
The SRX was a V6, the 300C a V8; the SRX was $14,000 MORE than the 300C. The warranty on both was close enough for Jazz. The Chrysler's wheels, despite other's protestations are the nicest wheels on any 300 at any price (which may be not much of a compliment, I'll agree, but I was more impressed with them than with the chrome wheels I have seen previously on 300C's.)
One difference: the wheel fender gap on the AWD 300C is noticable when compared side-by-side with the RWD version.
Price MSRP: over $40,000 -- but not by much (car had nav+sound+sirius+protection group; crystal black pearl (or something like that).
One dealer in Cincinnati is selling the car for sticker plus $4995. This dealership, since I was NOT at that moment buying only said "we do NOT mark the cars up over MSRP." Perhaps that just means "the sticker is the sticker."
This salesperson, not at all slimy, suggested that there were some major changes coming in 2006, "more colors and interior choices, more options like rear seat entertainment, more wheel choices, etc." Salesman also said another manufacturing facility was coming on line and that supply during the second half of the year wouldn't be so tight. Quoted 14 weeks for an order (although he said all dealers are on allocation -- he said they have been selling 100% of their monthly allocation which means every month their allocation grows in quantity by model. He said they were allocated 6 300C's per month last month and that is has grown this month.)
Can I see myself, after over 27 Audis, driving this car? I think so.
Can I see myself starting all over at the bottom of the customer pecking order, knowing that my wife and I are in the top quartile at the Audi dealer (in terms of "treatment and customer service?") This is a much tougher question; MAYBE a test drive and $11,000 (lower than an A6 3.2) will "weigh more" than I can currently imagine.
Never in my life would I have dreamed it would be THIS difficult to arrange a simple test drive; perhaps next week.
Let me know, thanks!
Took a long drive of an Infiniti G35x (2005).
This car would probably end up being for my wife -- if we were to go with a Japanese car (my wife has some difficulty abandoning "European" cars (notably German brands). But this car was impressive -- I can see why it made C&D's top ten list for two years.
Thanks for the review of the 300C AWD from the persepctive of a former Audi driver.
Maybe next week.
At least, that has been my experience with 2 300M's. However, they didn't have the hemi engine....
The service light was on for 7 different codes, including one for the CD player. They asked me if the car was involved in a flood because they have never seen so many codes. They reset it and told me to just wait to see if it came back on. I think a new computer may be in my future.
Let me first say that I'm not a tire expert, but I've been around enough to know the folklore about tires. In my experience, cupping is not going to be corrected by rotating. You'll just get more cupped tires. I believe cupping is caused by worn/broken shock absorbers. It certainly is not a normal ware pattern. The bald center on the rear tires is probably caused by over-inflation. Could be caused by an over-zealous J-Team when you get an oil change. I've had that happen to me: if 30 pounds is good; 40 pounds is better. Check your pressure and try to check your front shocks.
My .02
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Back when the car was first being prepped for IronWorks, a worker in the shop (and not the sharpest knife in this particular drawer I might add) responsible for the 300C in question, let the extra "Transit Air" out of the front tires, and then forgot which set he'd done. Thinking to himself, "Hmmm, did I do the front or the rear, well, I think I did the rear tires first and since I can't find my gauge, I'll just do the fronts this time." The result; 16 lbs. in the front tires and 45 lbs. in the rears.
Yup, that should just about explain cupped front tires and bald in the middle of the tread rear tires. I think that Mr. IronWorks should lean on the dealership for a little compensation regarding those tires.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
I hereby instruct the gods of reason to go easy on hardhawk for the rest of the week. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
"Cupping can be caused by an unbalanced tire condition, faulty wheel bearings, loose parts, fatigued springs or weak shock absorbers. Check the condition of the shock by forcefully bouncing the front end of the car several times and releasing it on the down stroke. Failure of the vehicle to settle after two strokes suggests worn shocks or struts."
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
try this one...scroll down and find the pic and description.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
They are designed for performance at the expense of wear. BMW, Audi, Porshce and some Mercedes use Max performance (which is the final step above Ultra High performance) "summer tires" -- my wife's second TT tires were basically "gone" at 13,000 miles and the car was maintained "by the book" at the dealer.
The Acura NSX and some of the Porsche's needed new rubber sometimes as soon as 6,000 miles. I had a set of Pirelli tires ONE TIME, that sacrificed themselves for my "driving pleasure" by about 8,000 miles. I have since switched to UHP tires and can now exceed 20,000 miles without concern about the tire's efficacy.
Now, I find it difficult to believe that the 300C would have such Max performance tires (the SRT-8 MAYBE) -- this cupping is caused as noted above. I would hope that the 300C's OEM tires would go over 25,000 miles with relative ease.
Very solid car. Fun to drive. Quiet if the Boston stereo isn't going full blast. Acceleration is outstanding. It even sounds as "bad" as it looks. It's too bad that some people get a lemon. Mine is no lemon. If mine were, I can understand how my thoughts and feelings would be jaded. I hope Chrysler "makes good" for people. They have called me three times to ask how things were, plus one mail in survey and two phone surveys. What can I say???
Oh yea, I drove on salt covered roads and didn't wash it for a week. Today after the car wash I looked / touched the rims and their edges etc and saw no pitting that someone else complained about. Maybe they drove through an acid spill. A damp then dry cloth got rid of water spots.
Does anyone have the 3.5 v6 ?? Is it adequate?
really dont need another hemi (Durango).
I know the hemi is nice, but this could be more of a commuter car - so i am going for gas mileage.
there seem to be plenty of V6's at the dealers, so I was hoping to get a little less than MRSP.
Thanks
Dan
I just got my 300C AWD via the Costco program and got it on that pricing basis, which was much better than any other dealer was willing to do for me.
I got the $1,000 rebate by borrowing the minimum required ($10K), but you can pay off the loan after 3 payments, so it's a pretty sweet deal.
I will likely get out of my TT 3.2 DSG Roadster early, as the fun is overshadowed by the inconvenience of lack of storage, comfort for my spouses's tush, etc. I am actually disappointed I turned in my A6 early. I've put the car up on lease trader, but no action for a month. Probably because the payments for the next 14 months are about $770. Anyway, if the A6 has gone up that much, I'll probably go with the 300C, as the CTS seems small, and dated, and the STS seems too large, and way too expensive. Unfortunately, both the STS and 300C AWD are quite scarce now.
It's good to see your name again, as I haven't browsed the forums for over a year. I lost your email address when I had a crash a month or so ago. HA! Hell of a note!!
jk
The 300C AWD is quite the value -- and from reading, it is also quite the performer.
jk
I have been reading through this complete forum after having purchased my 300 in Nov/2004. Excellent discussion about this terrific vehicle. Even though I purchased the 300 with most of the available options I wondered whether it might be possible to upgrade the headlight system from standard to the H.I.D system that is available on the 300C. Has anyone considered this option or know if this is something practical to consider.
Thanks to everyone for a terrific forum!
kroache
I do not know if this is LITERALLY true. However, I have been participating in these forms for years and years and whenever this question comes up, someone who knows the technical hurdles usually explains why this, although possible, is generally thought to be too expensive. Perhaps Chrysler has somehow managed to build this car in such a way that this is both possible and affordable.
Good luck.
I don't know if this feature was available or not, so this question is not meant to be impertinent: why would anyone get a brand new car without HID lights (if they were available)? If you have ever driven or ridden in a car with these lights, you certainly can attest to their efficacy -- heck, I'll go so far as to say, these lights could save your life.
But, while I'm on my soapbox, why would anyone get a car without ESP (or stability control) if such technology was available on the car one was considering buying? The cost of these two technological marvels is relatively low and the very fact that it is NOT an overstatement to claim these features could save your life would seem to compel new car buyers to demand these features.
Still couldn't drive a 300C AWD -- could've driven a non C AWD, decided to pass.
So... can owners reply w/reliability, concerns, issues, experience and recommendation? thanks!
PS: lastly my 2nd choice right now is the Infiniti G35x
I was fascinated by the aesthetic of the new 300, and excited by the many glowing reviews of the driving experience. The pleasure an auto offers while driving it is probably paramount among my criteria. I prefer a roomy, fast, good-handling touring sedan to sports cars. If I like it’s looks, so much the better.
The new Durante grill on the A6 and other new Audi’s isn’t as great a turn off for me as it seems to be for many. Other aspects are more disappointing. The original new ’98 A6 was a WOW of design departure with creativity and brilliance evident in almost every detail. Its replacement is not. The exterior goes from “huh?” to yawn. While its interior is less attractive, and amazingly, perhaps a tad snugger even though the car is bigger. The quality of materials and fit and finish are still excellent, though not to quite as high a standard as my old ’01. I haven’t driven one yet.
I began to satisfy my curiosity by visiting the nearest Chrysler dealership where there were originally plenty of 300’s sitting around the lot. My reaction echoed what I’d read in automotive magazines; “This is a Chrysler?” They were well put together with an excellent (Though not quite Audi) level of fit and finish. The interior was very roomy and comfortable, and the materials were better than reviews had led me to believe. And the 300C’s stickered for about $10K-$12K less than my A6 had.
Over several months I watched 300’s arrive and depart the dealership. I saw a few that had botched paint jobs with plenty of orange peel and poorer fit. Though in fairness, I’ve seen new Mercedes with plenty of orange peel too, and have even seen it on some body panels on some new Audi’s. I noticed when looking at the construction and welds in the door jam, engine compartment, etc., that this is obviously a simpler and ruder technique of body construction than that used to produce an A6. That doesn’t bother me very much, as the overall result in appearance and solidity is impressive. However, I wouldn’t accept delivery of some the cars that had really screwed up paint.
The dealer salesman with whom I dealt was charming, but the process was a little comical. He likes trucks, the dealer likes trucks, and they like to sell trucks! He really didn’t seem to know what to make of the 300C, or $30K+ sedans in general. Chrysler seems to have lightning in a bottle. Let’s see what they do with it. The initial dealer response to low inventories has been predictable; I’ve seen dealers trying to add $3K to $5K to the sticker!
My first impression on the RWD 300C test drive was that this was the best American car I’d ever driven by a huge margin. It didn’t feel as big as I thought it would. It was both much quieter and smoother than my ’01 A6. The interior is delightful. It is attractive, roomy and very comfortable to drive. I would sum up the driving experience as stately. I treat new, unbroken-in cars pretty gently. Given that, I thought the engine powerful, though not in the ripping, kick-in-the-pants nature of the 2.7T.
I found myself exceeding the speed limit by 10 to 20mph in 40 and 50mph zones with no sensation of the extra speed. The handling is very good, though not quite as nimble as the A6’s, though the excessive body roll of the older non-sport A6’s is absent. The brakes were adequate, though much less powerful than those on my A6. Break-in may alter this comparison, as it will almost certainly affect engine performance as well.
Much of the brilliance of an A6 and other Audi’s is found at the extremes. As I’m not willing to bring any new, unpurchased car to that point, I found myself wondering how the 300 would compare in those situations to the A6. My initial test drive suggests the A6 would be substantially superior. But I don’t spend much time driving a car at its limits, so I don’t think these extra margins would necessarily affect a buying decision for me.
I too am most interested in the AWD version. Those of us familiar with Audi’s quattro know that there’s a trade-off. The extra weight and friction result in a slightly slower car, and reduced gas mileage. I doubt the effect will be too great on the 300. The few posts I’ve read here about the 300C with AWD are very promising since the drivers seemed to love the result of AWD on the driving experience.
I do wonder about the difference between the center differential system used on the AWD 300 compared to the Torsen center differential of Audi’s. That’s one thing that has worked very well, and has been bulletproof on Audi’s. I also wonder about the overall level of problems the 300 is likely to experience. Audi’s aren’t nearly as bad as many think, but they are sometimes not flawless. I would be surprised if the overall number of trouble a 300 driver will experience will be either much greater, or much less than has been the experience among A6’s.
The wheel fender gap bothered me when I first saw the car (ordered it sight unseen) but with the 18's it isn't that bad. Probably about 1/2 inch more fender gap than the RWD 300C though. The news I'm receiving on changing the wheels isn't good however. An addendum to the manual states that all wheels must have the same size and type tires. Unequal tire sizes must not be used because it may cause failure of the front differential and/or transfer case.
Looking into lowering springs. Will keep you posted.
http://www.us.leaseplan.com/fleet_resources/fr_pnews.htm
- Ray
Not leasing right now . .