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The good news is: this service advisor rode with me and felt the shuddering at highway speeds, then he asked if he could drive the vehicle back to the dealership. He was able to re-create the issue when he was driving, also.
The bad news is: he called later in the day to advise that they really do not know what is causing the issue. They have another advisor coming in to check out the suspension on Friday.
Although it is a good thing that I now have documentation from a Cadillac dealership that something is wrong, it's still frustrating to have the vehicle "out of commission" for so much time.
The rental vehicle this time is an '08 CTS, base edition, black with grey interior. It's an extremely nice car, with much more room inside than I expected (I'm 6'5", and without a sunroof I have plenty of room). The handling and suspension, of course, are quite different from the ride of a DTS, but it's really a nice looking/driving car.
Cadillac corporate called later to advise me they had spoken with the dealership and are closing the case. Because I changed the tires, I have caused the problem with the vehicle. I pointed out to the (very polite & courteous) Cadillac rep that there are so many inconsistencies in the diagnoses that this simply makes no sense. Their final resolution is to close the case with "Customer Dissatisfied" as the bottom line.
I'm stumped. I'm trying to not become too emotional, but I think I've hit a brick wall and have no option but to get rid of this car.
Attorney Generals office of most states have a consumer division that deals with Lemon law issues. Best wishes and keep us posted so we can give moral support and additional suggestions.
The tire store inspected, re-mounted, rotated, and balanced the tires. They found nothing wrong with the tires at all. I drove right from the tire store to the highway....the vibration is exactly at the same point on the speedometer. No change whatsoever. If this was a tire issue, wouldn't a rotate & balance change the nature of the vibration at least a little?
If the vibration is noticable at a certain speed, then the problem is not likely in the transmission (like the torque convertor), as the vibration would show up at different speeds in lower gears.
goggle "Road Force Balance" to learn more
Assuming that the tire dealer who has balanced the Pirelli's did dynamic balancing on the tires/wheels, then the problem is most likely the brake rotors being out of balance.
I think that I would proceed by talking with the salesperson who sold me the car, explaining what has taken place, and then making it clear that the car is not acceptable, possibly dangerous (since no one knows why there is a vibration), that I want a full refund of my money. Then let the dealer propose a solution.
I agree the Pirelli tires don't seem to be the problem, but appearantly Cadillac is using this as an excuse not to do anything.
I think the lemon law is the way to go.
Might give that a try simply to rule out a "simple" balance problem that will not show up with conventional methods...
Looking back throught robw64's posts, the vibration seems to have developed over a period of time, and has become objectionable more recently. Perhaps the shocks are wearing to a point where they are not working quite right? If you look through the CTS forum, the owners there complain about vibration too, so this problem is not just DTS.
The magnetic suspension gives a noticeably pleasant ride, and my passengers typically comment on what a great riding car it is.
I have not sensed any kind of vibration at any speed. If I'm not using the cruise control on the interstate, it's very easy to suddenly find myself moving along at 85 to 95 miles per hour, or higher.
Would I go for another performance model? Without a second thought...
One question that robw64 can think about is: is the vibration noticable in the steering wheel or not (the answer to this means the vibration is in the front suspension or the rear suspension).
The lemon law will not automatically result in getting your money back. First you have to "prove" the car is defective, which means that some disinterested person (probably more than one) will have to back you up that the car is defective and not repairable.
They were right.
We found a reasonable deal on a Lincoln MKX, but the dealer would only offer $24.1k for a trade on the Cadillac. They suggested we try appraising it at Car Max to see if a better offer could be made there. They came back with $23.5k, because 2006's are known to be troublesome (1st year of the re-design).
So, now we're debating whether to take a huge hit on trading the vehicle or try spending another $800 or so for another set of tires. I suppose I could buy them at the Cadillac dealer and if the problem doesn't go away they would have some solid proof it's the vehicle and not the rubber.
Since you are trading it in because of a problems that seems unfixable, and assuming the problem is obvious to anyone who drives the car ( :confuse: ), you really will have to take a hit on the trade-in value. I mean who would buy this piece of junk :sick:
My point here is that getting some other car may solve the problem, but may not. If one test drives the next vehicle, and there is no problem, then probably you will be OK, but who knows.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2005089
However, the difference is not great compared to how well both are compared to the industry average. The Town Car was rated top for mid level luxury, while the Cadillac Eldorado was rated high in the premium luxury car segment.
Bremertong's experience with one vehicle is all well and good, but a sample of one is not meaningful. Most of you with DTSs have not had a problem with vibrations, only robw64 is having this problem. Bremertong has had some problem with his electrical system, which he has had problems explaining in simple terms, I still don't know if the problem is the engine stalling or if the battery is weak :confuse: :confuse: :confuse:
I did own a Cadillac Seville, which was for all practical purposes the same thing as the DTS - the same basic platform, which is the G-body, and my Seville was the third G-body I owned, so I do have some experience with G-bodies. I now own a Cadillac SRX, which is a different platform, but has been very reliable. I did have a dead battery one morning, but that has not repeated itself, and I think I ran the battery down playing with the power third row seat.
If I should trade or sell my DTS in the future I will join the owners forum of the new vehicle, and not act as if to be an expert on a car that I no longer own unless I am bored and have nothing better to do with my time.
To be fair I have found some of the information posted by the very few posters that this applies to a little helpful but a substantial amount of it
is at the very least not helpful to me at all and in fact confuses issues and resolutions.
If you like the Lincoln MKX, it is somewhat cheaper than the DTS new, so the difference to trade may not be that bad.
The point I have been trying to get across is that your Cadillac dealer is working for themselves, not "Cadillac", and if their service department is not doing a good job, that is your dealer not "Cadillac". However, a dealer whose service department is deficient should lose their franchise.
I did make a couple of suggestions with your old deVille's cruise control problems, one was replacing the steering wheel buttons, which did not change anything. In fact your dealer replaced the entire cruise control system so whatever the problem was, it was not the cruise control, but something else.
The problems that you have had with your new DTS have been puzzling to me based on the description you gave for the problem. My suggestion is that when you have a problem that you describe it to your service department in simple language, and not try to seem more knowledgeable than you really are.
One of the problems: The On Star connectivity started going out. The car could no longer communicate with remote vehicle diagnostics.
The other problem: The remote door locks started locking & unlocking all by themselves. We could be driving or even sitting in the car waiting to pick someone up and the locks would activate.
We traded the vehicle for an MKX last night. The best trade in value we could get was $25.2k, which is slightly above a 50% loss in value from it's $49.9k MSRP when new in July, 2006. Car Max would only offer $23.5k (they stated that 2006 DTS' are known to be troublesome), and another Lincoln dealer would only offer $23.7k.
I thank you all for your insight, support, and assistance while we had the DTS......your feedback helped me get through the headache of owning a vehicle with problems.
I would think that in July of 2006 you would not have paid list price for the DTS. When I bought my Seville I got it for about $10,000 below list, but then I did not want to buy it, and they wanted to sell...
Looking at trade in values, $25000 is about right, depending on options, and, considering that your car has problems that seem to be unfixable, getting more than $20,000 is probably good. Of course the Lincoln dealer may think that they can fix it :P
The MKX has less engine power (V6 versus V8), but I notice it gets to highway cruising speed very quickly and easily. Exterior sound volumes penetrating the cabin are comparable to the Cadillac.
The volume of interior seating space seems to be quite similar, with the exception of rear seat toe room (the MKX wins on this one) and the rear seat recline feature in the MKX. It's also nice to have the sunroof, which was unavailable to me in the DTS due to lack of headroom. The driver seating position is different than in the Cadillac.....it only took a few days to get used to the elevated driving position and more reclined seat backs (the headrests are positioned in such a way that a very upright seat back would cause it to bump into the back of your head).
The THX-certified sound system is excellent, definitely comparable to the Bose premium sound we had in the Cadillac. The in-dash navigation is very simple to operate, and can be updated by loading a new CD.
Every auto maker has it's own "look & feel", and the Lincoln is significantly different than a Cadillac, but not in a bad way. The fit & finish is comparable, and I've only found one slightly misaligned trim piece on the steering wheel (our Cadillac had an errant strip of flashing in the chromed shifter bezel which always caught my eye).
While the Deville has been a long time big seller for Cadillac, the CTS now sells about as well. The DTS sales seem to be decreasing, while the new CTS is selling even better than the first generation model, which had a plasic interior. If you want really big vehicles the Buick Enclave is quite large. The Town Car will probably remain in production for a while too. Cadillac is said to be thinking about a true premium luxury model (something that might compare with the Mercedes S-class). I am not sure that Cadillac knows how to do premium luxury though, as the last true premium luxury Cadillac was the 90-series in the 1930's era. The Eldorado Brougham of the late 50's was not really a premium luxury model and failed in any case.