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Figure with exhaust, chip, intake and maybe a blower.... 400+hp should be attainable.
-mike
I was thinking we could start by passing out signs that we could put on the dashboard when we drive other cars:
"This is not your (XT/GT)- Acceleration Limited-Use Extreme Caution While Driving"
The life you save may be your own. ;-)
Any takers? Who wants to be president?
Ok, a little silly, but it was a concern when driving my wife's minivan this past weekend- 2 lane passing manuevers needed to be planned a bit more than if I were driving my GT.
DM- I haven't noticed the stutter- maybe I'm driving a little too aggressively? Or not aggressively enough?
Mike- AWD Magnum Hemi? What are you going to do when gas prices hit $4/gallon? ;-) The popularity of these cars is interesting- see, power is addictive. ;-)
tom
I own an SUV right now so I'm not worried. Also the hemi has the variable displacement so cruising it's only firing 4 cylinders.
Love the power especially low-down grunt. THat's why i owned 2 H6 XT6s and the 3.3L H6 SVX
-mike
Craig
The H6 is also cheaper in Canada. Strange indeed.
mike: wait for a used one, Dodge residuals fall about as fast as a rock thrown off the top of a mountain. They already have $1000 in incentives.
Seriously, wait 2 years and you can get a cherry used one for $17-20k. They are $30k+ or so new.
-juice
I finally received my R&T issue yesterday and had a chance to read through the TSX vs. GT comparo. I was suprised to find that they didn't mention the difference in torque between the two cars. The TSX only makes 166 ft-lbs while the GT makes a whomping 250 ft-lbs. They do allude to the fact that the TSX has no torque steer (duh) and that they needed keep the revs above 5000RPM while the GT was shifted at 5000RPM. There was one interesting mention about how the TSX spun it's inside wheel when going around an uphill curve while the GT kept power on the ground.
mike: I liked the concept of the Magnum at first, but I was less enamoured after having driven one. But then again, it was a ST with the V6. Perhaps the Hemi and AWD could make one overlook the interior and handling characteristics.
Ken
Traction control only retards your momentum, it doesn't put the power down more effectively.
-juice
-mike
-mike
I think the 300C has higher demand than the Magnum Hemi.
-juice
You can add me to the support group! I swear my car gained about 20 hp since I got back from my 3600 mile road trip. Of course the fact that the temps are about 20 degrees cooler here in Seattle than when we left sure isn't hurting.
FWIW, I used to experience the hesitation and have been looking for it lately but haven't been able to find it. Perhaps it goes away as the engine gets fully broken in. BTW, I'm up at about 6800 miles now.
Cheers!
-Ian
Thanks for the tip, I definetly did not do this (sport mode) in my first test drive. This could also explain why the XT did not seem as fast as I was expecting versus the Bean. The sales person I worked with was busy with another customer so he let me and my wife take the XT out by ourselves and I was not sure how the manual mode worked, so I did not try it. It was very tempting to drive the car right back home and keep it
Juice, yeah I triple checked the fitzmall.com website and sure enough the 2005 Bean Wagon is nealry $200 less expensive than a 2005 XT-L...
I think for me it will come down to a final test drive and I will need to highlight the differences between the two cars. I will say that my Altima has a Bose stereo with audio controls on the steering wheel, and I simply love this feature. But then again I prefer black leather and the more sporty look and feel of the XT Limited.. This is going to be a tough call (which it should be when dropping 29K on an automobile)..
Wow, 6800 miles. I just passed 2K. I think my engine is just starting to loosen up.
How's the service there in Kirkland? I keep bringing my car into Bellevue but everytime they fix something something else gets worse!
BTW, I passed another 'SPC' '05 legacy. Maybe we all bought them at the same time?
tom
In that case, the H6 will be cheaper to own/operate when you consider the timing chains.
I wonder which will have higher resale values. If the turbos are in demand now, probably the XT. If the turbos have any reliability issues, though, the H6 will really begin to shine.
Forget all that, honestly, and buy the one you prefer. Do you want the cheaper one or your favorite? Being happy is more important that saving 1% of the purchase price.
-juice
The XT gets something even better on the steering wheel -- manual shift buttons. I'd rather have those than audio controls anyday.
Ken
Excellent point. As I mentioned, I would much prefer a manual to an automatic, but the wife will win this battle since she will be driving the car more than me. The fact that the XT has the slick manual shift buttons on the steering wheel might be a great compromise. Which by the way, is what marriage is all about
Juice I agree with you 100%, when it comes down to driving both cars again back-to-back I will buy the model that stands out the most. We still want to drive the Honda Pilot as well, but based on previous trips to the Honda dealer, I cannot imagine driving one home. I would be interested in hearing your impression of the Pilot if you drove one.
Thanks for the update. However I have a question on the explanation - If the fault was a characteristic of just the ECU program, it would occur on all cars. From what I can gather, it is probably on less than 5% of cars sold, I therefore believe that it is an interaction between the program and one or more sensors being at tolerance limits. As I do not expect a resolution from SOA soon, I expect I will look at getting an after-market tuner to re-program the ECU (do you know of anyone advertising this capability yet ?). I am not particularly impressed that after spending the best part of 27 K on a car I have to seek out a jobbing shop to get the engine to run properly - if anyone from SOA is listening this is probably NOT the way to move up-market !!
Pete
But if it is appearing in the UK as well as Australia, then chances are it will be in the USA for the next MY (is it MY 2006?). So you only have to wait about 9 months.
Here is a UK news article:
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/News_Article.asp?NA_ID=210866
- Aussie Outback
http://automobilemag.com/reviews/0411_legacy_comparo/
All 4-cylinder models—and the Legacy wins!
Bob
Craig
I am not a mom, and do not eat granola! LOL!
Just to clarify, there is an 05 H6 called the 3.0R in Canada that is cheaper than the XT. It is a base version of the VDC (with cloth interior, no VDC, no moon roof etc.). It is priced equivalent to a LGT 5EAT. The H6 VDC, called the 3.0R VDC, is priced cdn$600 higher than the OB XT LTD 5EAT. We have no base OB XT, LTD only. Dealer tells me that customers in Canada were demanding an H6 without all the bells and whistles. They got it.
Cheers.
Ken
I have read 4 other articles on the new Legacys, but this is the first that speaks to the 2.5i model with the manual transmission.
I appreciate the comparison with the Mazda and the Honda, and I don't need a spec sheet that duplicates the info in the sales brochure. But, I would appreciate some instrumented tests on how well the naturally aspirated boxer 4 performs with the manual transmission.
I don't eat much granola and am not a soccer mom, but this will be my fourth Legacy. Do any of these auto journalists really understand the Subaru Legacy market?
Jim
Ken
BUT, the only red XT already has 160 miles from test drives. The mileage is not so much the issue as is not knowing who drove those 160 miles, and how hard they were driven.
I suspect I will be able to negotiate a better deal for a car on the lot, rather than ordering one or even attempting to get one via dealer trade. So, do I stay away from this vehicle and find one with less than 5 miles on it, or should I take my chances and perhaps offer a bit less because of it? I am told that Red XTs in MT are hard to come by in my neck of the woods.
Any advice would be sincerely appreciated.
Cheers,
Jay.
I definitely have a buzzing noise coming out of the passenger door panel- which the dealer could not find. After the dealer adjusted my radio panel- now there is a buzzing coming out of there too! It seems the more they do with the car the worse it gets. They scratched my ashtray door when installing my short-shifter and now can't figure out if they ordered a replacement door.
Oh well, just some birthing pains. But if Subaru is going to move upmarket, they need upmarket service!
Nice article, Bob. Makes me wonder if I should have just bought a 2.5i. ;-) Although I think a GT is probably the best value if you can get one for about $25K. I'm not sure the LGT is worth the premium. But it is nice!
Jay- I think you could guess anyone test driving a turbo is going to drive it hard. Probably without warming the car up. I don't know what 160 miles will mean, but you're supposed to keep the car under 4K through the break in period of 1000 miles. I'm sure a test driven car will have broken 4K a few times. ;-)
You might want to think about how much saving a few hundred dollars means in the long run. ;-)
tom
I've been pretty gentle with the engine so far, but even moderate pressure on the accelerator does more than flooring my old car. The steering is great. I was unsure about the handling for a bit, as the ride height took some getting use to. It does pretty well on long sweeping turns, but changing direction rapidly seems to unsettle things a fair amount. But it's far better than any SUV, and likely better than many cars. The ride is certainly nice, comfortable yet with a bit of a taut feel. The Legacy GT would certainly be more fun to drive, but skiing, backpacking, appearance, and the ability to have a locking Yakima rack (how could they screw that up?) all pushed me toward the Outback. My girlfriend has an A4 3.0 Quattro that I can drive for my handling fix.
Nitpicks.
As others have noticed, the armrest is too low. Might get the armrest extension, but at $144, it seems a little steep. I'm also not sure I like the look of it. I haven't seen or used it in person yet. Any opinions? I'm also getting a very annoying vibration/rattle on rough pavement from tip of the parking brake. The tip is vibrating against the metal surround. Bad design. The transmission is getting easier to shift (pretty decent to begin with), but reverse can be difficult at times. I often find it requires a pump of the clutch to get it in. I rarely had to do that on the Legacy. Hope that improves over time. The only other quality control issue I've noticed is that the right front passenger assist handle doesn't have a damped return, unlike all the others.
One other thing. The engine seems a little rough when compared to my 96 2.2L. I figure some of it might be that bigger displacement 4cyl. engines tend to be rougher. But it does seem a little unrefined with noticeable shaking (not major though) at stop lights. I couldn't even tell if my 96 was running at a stop light (unless I looked at the shaking shifter)! Anyone else notice this?
Thinking about getting 16" wheels for winter use, to avoid the expense of 17" snow tires (Blizzaks). Might go steel, or see if I can get the stock base Outback wheels for a decent price from a local dealer that removed them when pimping out a couple of its cars with chrome aftermarket wheels.
The red cars are definitely difficult to find. Searching all of the dealers in WA and OR yielded only 5 with sticks and tan leather.
Very much looking forward to a road trip in a couple of weeks!
Doug
If it were me and spending close to $30K on a vehicle, I would forgo the model with 160 miles and order one. If your dealer places an order for you before the end of the month, then it's about a 6-8 week delivery time for the exact vehicle you want with no test-drive miles.
Also, I'd argue that you should be able to get as good a deal on an ordered vehicle. From a dealer standpoint, your vehicle is not going to tie up any floor space and become immediate revenue. I spoke to my local dealer at length about this and he said he much more prefers customers that simply call/email, place and order and pick up 6-8 weeks vs. having to deal with inventory.
Ken
Nice choice for families of 5 or more but even then I prefer the way the Odyssey drives and it's cheaper and roomier. Pilot has AWD but even then it's part-time, acting like FWD most of the time.
I am hoping the Subaru Tribeca can match the interior space of the Pilot but in a sportier package with full-time AWD.
2.5i Legacy wins, cool. What's that phrase?
Trickle-down-goodness.
They should trademark the phrase.
-juice
I think all the turbo models make that noise. I get it sporadically and it's also been documented over at Legacygt.com.
When I heard it, I thought it was the fuel pump, but others think it might be something with the intake plenum.
Ken
The last time I heard an engine startup noise like that my starter died a week later.
BTW, how do you guys figure out how to remove interior panels? I'm about to give up on my dealer and tighten and grease everything myself. Do you use a manual or just guess?
tom
Thanks!
patc1: The OB wagon gives you the following over the base Legacy wagon:
- more ground clearance
- tinted rear windows
- extra 12V outlets
- cross bars
- tinted rear windows (it's a truck)
- exterior styling
Maybe a few others, but essentially they are very close. Again, the main difference is the ground clearance. Check Edmund's TMV tool to figure out what people are paying in your area and to see the full list of details.
Ken
Craig
Craig
-mike
I'll have to do this one of these weekends to try to quiet the squeaks
tom
Craig
Interesting...
Avi
-B
1) insert key and turn to on position (don't start).
2) As soon as key chimes start (immediate in most cases) click seat belt in and out 20 times within 30 seconds.
3) Turn off key and remove.
4) Repeat 1, 2, 3 again
5) Turn key off and re-start
For part 2, be sure to do 20 distinct clicks.
Craig
Their website has not been updated but the Yakima phone rep said that their Q-towers and Q53 clips will fit 05 Legacy sedans. I haven't tried this yet but I will soon.
I was hoping to stick with my Thule setup but they seem to be dragging their feet on it and I can't wait any longer.
You sound like you've taken out the HVAC/radio before. ;-)
Ken