Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

17677798182214

Comments

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Thanks for the compliments.

    Peeling and bubbling tint jobs are almost always due to DIY installations. Professionally installed tint jobs are guaranteed for the lifetime of the vehicle. If you check your local yellow pages, you should find many shops that specialize in tinting.

    While I'm not 100% familiar with the application technique, it does take about 1/2 day to complete a vehicle. Tint films from major brands like 3M, Madico, Lumlar (sp?) all perform very well and have warranties against defects including bubbling and peeling.

    The only drawback of aftermarket tint is that it's a film applied to the inside of your windows. Unlike tinted glass, the film can be scratched and damaged. Also once applied, tint film is very difficult to remove from glass -- it needs to be steamed off. It costs almost as much to remove it as it does to apply it.

    Prices will vary based on the grade of the film and your local market. I used a relatively high-quality metallized film from Madico. The five windows in my wagon cost me $225.

    IMO, tinting a wagon is well worth it since there is so much glass. Not only do you make it more comfortable for your passengers, but you gain privacy, protect your upholstery and improve your driving vision day and night. Also when it comes time to sell your vehicle, tinting increases the value of your car.

    Ken
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    When I had my FXT in for service, the shop foreman was walking around the back of my car checking out something.

    I asked what he was looking at he said, "Your tint". He asked if one of their guys did it and I said no, it was a buddy of mine at azpinstalls.com. He was really impressed with the quality. They use Madico as well.

    -Dennis
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    This past week, my folks were out in CA on vacation. My dad, who owns a TSX back at home, had numerous chances to ride in my GT wagon as well as drive it.

    His impressions:
    - Liked the interior especially the center console and dash. He thought it was better designed than that in his TSX. (BTW, he's an interior designer)
    - Very impressed at how much more low-mid end torque was available. Made it a much more drivable car.
    - From a handling standpoint, he noted the TSX feels snappier. But he also noted that the GT despite feeling heavier still manages to respond quite well. He liked the weighting of the GT steering better.
    - He thought the overall looks of the GT wagon were great except the longish front end.
    - Couldn't believe how big that moonroof was!

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ken, good comments. Sounds like your dad is a "car guy." :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The problem with film tint is getting those dog nose prints off the inside. You can't use anything with ammonia.

    Ken: please share over in the TSX vs. L-GT vs. TL thread, sounds informative.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Bob:

    Yeah, my mom was complaining how when they drive around NY, all he does is point out cars and explains the significance of each one.

    juice:

    I was considering it, but it was kind of light on the comparo.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Finally read that article.

    It's hilarious, these two magazines are owned by the same company, yet they come to the opposite conclusion based largely upon - the tires!

    So I have a theory. C&D put the RE92s on the Legacy, but R&T secretly switched them to the TSX! LOL

    Seriously, though, the Legacy is ahead in lateral grip and slalom despite the tire handicap (as I perceive it), so to me that shows the benefit of AWD neutralizing the handling a bit.

    TSX' 0-60 time is competitive with the Legacy 2.5i. In fact torque is identical at 166 lb-ft yet the Subie actually peaks sooner.

    -juice
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,279
    The only bad thing about adding AWD to a front-driver is the weight... It can really clean up the handling.. Great handling CAN be engineered into a front-driver (MINI), but it isn't easy..

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think that largely relies on lightness. As curb weight creeps up that gets harder and harder.

    The Mini manages but look at the size and practicality - move the seats back for comfort and there are no rear seats!

    Also, torque + FWD = torque steer. 166 lb-ft may explain why the TSX doesn't have that issue, but then again which engine would you rather have pulling a full 850 lb payload up a mountain?

    -juice
  • jsedlockjsedlock Member Posts: 5
    I've got an 05 GT Wagon. I've been perplexed about the warm air temp when the a/c is off and just "vent" is selected. I even read the climate control manual last night. No help. Warm air seems to be the norm. I usually run with the climate control off now unless it's A/C weather. I'd like some help too as I've always had fresh air through the vents.
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Open the rear windows some and set the vent to recirculate. Of course, that won't help if it is raining... it gets very steamy on rainy days with the vent open and windows up.

    -Dave
  • samiam_68samiam_68 Member Posts: 775
    Sounds like HAL got to the Legacy/Outback after the Forester....
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    I am in the hunt for a new car, and was looking between the Outback, Pilot, and Highlander. Ruled out the Highlander due to numerous reported hesitation problems (had a co-worker nearly get killed when his wife's 2003 V6 AWD hesitated when she was trying to merge into traffic... Check the message boards, this issue is happening to many HL owners!)

      So.. Me and the wife finally drove both the Outback XT and the Outback LL Bean wagons.. WOW!! We were both blown away with the engineering of these cars, and how well crafted the interior is.. Reminded me of Volkswagen or Audi.. Here is my dilemma.. LL Bean, or XT wagon??? Looking at www.fitzmall.com in my area shows only a few hundred dollar difference between the XT Limited and the LL Bean.. Here are my impressions:
    XT Limited: Fast, but did not feel as fast as my Altima SE (240HP). This is probably just the feel of the turbo and the fact that I was not pushing the car since it was not broken in yet. I could definitely feel the difference in torque between the XT and LL Bean, however. I like the look of the hood scoop, and the interior is gorgeous..

    LL Bean: Wow, the interior is a little more refined, and I liked the audio controls on the steering wheel. I also felt the V6 was very responsive and it did not seem to hesitate as the XT did..

      So, I am a little torn.. All of the reviews that I have read swear that the XT is much more fun to drive that the H6, but this was not quite my experience... I think that once the XT was broken in, I would be happier with it but the LL Bean's interior is a little nicer..

    Thoughts?? Impressions?? I would love to hear from both XT and LL Bean owners...
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I bought my XT Ltd at FitzMall in mid july, and it's been great. I previously had an 02 LL Bean.

    I was actually planning on getting a Legacy GT wagon, but went with the XT for the ground clearance (comes in handy when I ski or kayak). The XT is definitely more sporty than the Bean; in my opinion it's a great alternative to the GT wagon.

    At one point I also owned an 03 WRX, but it was impractical to have 2 cars. I feel like the XT replaces both my LL Bean Outback and my WRX, so it was the perfect choice. I agree that the 05 Bean is a bit more refined, but not by much (in fact the 05 XT is more refined than my 02 Bean was). In constrast, the XT is loads of fun to drive and it is wicked fast. It makes my commute a lot of fun, and is a nice change from my previous LL Bean. It's also faster than my WRX was in a practical everyday way (WRX would be faster in a race, but when can you do that safely on public roads??).

    If you prefer the black interior like I do, there's one reason to get the XT, since the Bean only comes with the taupe interior. I thought taupe was too light; though it look great, several taupe cars I test drove were already scuffed up on the inside. Black shows dust but so far it's been real tolerant of wear and tear. My 02 had a light-dirt colored interior that was about the perfect color.

    Other benefits of the XT include the shifter buttons on the steering wheel (I initially thought these were a gimmick but love them now), the electroluminescent gauges shared with the GT, and the sport seat shape (also shared with the GT).

    Craig
  • moutbackmoutback Member Posts: 39
    I second Craig's post. I traded in my 2000 Outback for a black/black XT Ltd. (at Herb Gordon Subaru in Silver Spring, MD). I test drove a VDC before test driving the XT, and, while the VDC was nice and slightly more refined interior-wise, the XT's turbo was the decisive factor. Plus, the Bean is not available with a black interior as the XT is. I wish the XT had audio controls on the wheel too, but the SPORTSHIFT buttons are actually fun to use--I use it all the time. The Bean also has the cool gray wheels, but I'm ok with the silver wheels on the XT.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I noticed that the Magnum, currently my hot-to-own car comes with the rear 5 windows tinted from the factory :)

    -mike
  • solidsendersolidsender Member Posts: 4
    I also drove both but got the XTL. To me, it's a simple choice between how you want the car to respond in the kind of driving you do most often.

    I love the jack-rabbit response of the XT 5M but I only drive a few miles to work and enjoy it on the weekends when there's less city traffic and out in the coutryside. Having lived with it for a few weeks, I can definitely see how it could seem almost too jumpy if you had to drive it in congested conditions on a regular basis and might prefer the smoother V6.
  • avizivaviziv Member Posts: 29
    After reading the complaints about warm air coming in from the vents, I tested it myself. I can confirm that I too am getting warm "fresh" air from the vents. Unless there is a real bug (such as the heater running in that mode) I doubt Subaru could do anything to correct it on this model year. It's a shame.

    Avi
  • katwaykatway Member Posts: 19
    I put in an order for a 2005 Outback VDC nearly 3 months ago and I'm still waiting for the vehicle. Have others had a similar experience?
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I've found that dialing down the temperature all the way to 65 before shutting off the HVAC system keeps the fresh air cold. Alternatively, if you forget, you can simply activate the HVAC system, dial down and then shut off.

    What I think is happening is that at temperature settings above 65, the vents are mixing in some amount of heat to achieve the desired inlet temperature. When the A/C is shut off, the system simply keeps mixing in the heat and therefore the fresh air becomes warmed.

    My GT wagon is the first vehicle I've owned with automatic climate control. While it does to seem to have some quirks, I generally like it. I've come to the conclusion that it works best when you keep it in AUTO mode and let it do it's thing -- even when it's too cool outside to have AC on.

    The only time I take manual control is when I first start driving after having parked my vehicle for an entire day in the sun. With AUTO mode, the AC blasts too high for my tastes so I manually adjust the fan speed. Once it starts feeling comfortable, I switch back to AUTO and let it do it's thing. It's actually very good at maintaining steady state temperatures for long drives.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Six to eight weeks is normal assuming your dealer did put in the order and receive confirmation. Three months sounds like something isn't going right. Even though the VDC models sell only far and few in between, your dealer should be able to get one if they submit your order to SOA. I would check with the dealer and, if need be, find a different one.

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Although I own a Legacy GT wagon, I've test driven both the XT and LL Bean models when shopping.

    My impression was that the H6 (not V6 -- Subarus use a horizontal engine design) is smooth but beyond the initial tip-in, it didn't have the response the H4 turbo did. Once you past the 3K RPM mark, there's simply no contest. Also, the transmissions will break in after the first few thousand miles and greatly improve responsiveness for both engines.

    While the H6 is a great engine, I'm convinced Subaru brought it to the US simply to get over the more cylinders is better bias here. There's really not much the H6 has to offer over the H4 turbo other than helping justify a higher price tag for a vehicle with more creature comforts.

    Ken
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I've found that dialing down the temperature all the way to 65 before shutting off the HVAC system keeps the fresh air cold. Alternatively, if you forget, you can simply activate the HVAC system, dial down and then shut off.

    Ken has it exactly right. It was the same on my 02 Bean and my wife's Forester XS. If you want true unheated ambient air, you need to crank the temp knobs down to 65 first.

    My routine on the Bean to get the "vent" mode was turn temp knob to 65, push off, and then push mode to get panel or bi-level.

    This analagous to the manual climate control scenario of turning fan off, turn temp to minimum, and then choosing the mode. If you failed to turn the temp down to minimum on a manual system, you'd also get heated air.

    Craig
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    One other thing I've learned -- over at LegacyGT.com someone posted a schematic of the HVAC system. It appears as though the heater core is bypassed only when the fan routing is set to FACE. So, to maximize the cold air from the outside, the vent position also needs to be set appropriately.

    Ken
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    I am starting to regret buying the GT.

    I can't drive other cars anymore! What was adequate in the past has become just too slow! It feels like it takes forever to get on a freeway in other cars, and it is too easy to exceed the speed limit unless i'm careful. ;-)

    Maybe I should've bought the H6. Maybe I should've bought the 2.5i. Maybe I should've bought a camry. . .

    Power corrupts. I'm convinced. This is not a good daily driver- the power spoils you and makes it harder to drive slower cars. ;-)

    Maybe we could start a support group. Does anyone else have the same problems?

    I still love this car!
    I think I need another car to drive on a daily basis though. ;-)

    tom
  • snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    I have the same problem. Also a VDC. My dealer keeps making excuses. What can I do? Too late to switch to another dealer. Very anxious. Snowbird
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    Why too late ?

    Krzys
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    tom: the cure is simply to give me your car. It's a 12 step program and that is the first step...

    ;-)

    -juice
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    Hmmm.. All of you seem to be making the case for the XT-L just as was the case with most of the reviews that I read. I did not realize that the Bean only came with the taupe interior versus the black for the XT-L.. That might help my decision. I also do prefer the exterior look to the XT to that of the Bean (hood scoop). I think that I will need to test drive both again, and also a 2.5i limited (althogh I am so spoiled with the H4 turbo and H6 engines that it may be useless to even try to compare the base 4 engine!) I think my test drive just did not capture as too how much faster the XT was than the Bean. From what I have learned that has quite a bit to do with the break-in period for the turbo and also the automatic transmission getting to understand the drivers tendencies (both me and my wife and lead foot drivers!) Good point about the manual shift controls on the steering wheel, that is a very cool feature. Especially for me since I prefer a manual tranny and my wife insists on the automatic. Thanks for the feedback, so far it seems that the Subaru dirvers in this thread favored the XTL over the Bean...
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    BTW, coming from a Nissan family I can really appreciate the attention that Subaru paid to the interior of the current Legacy/Outback line.. It is up to par (in my book) with many of the upscale European manufacturers. I love my 2002 Nissan Altima SE, but after sitting in the Outbacks this weekend, there is no comparison. Same with Highlander and Pilot... I rode into work today with a co-worker who has a brand new Acura TSX. Minus the nav system, I think that I prefer the new Subaru interior.. Good job Subaru..
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I also prefer the turbo engine, though I sampled the L-GT not the OB-XT.

    -juice
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    Excuse my ignorance (having never owned a turbo) but from a cost of ownership and maintenance perspective is there an advantage to choosing the H6 versus the XT?
  • fastcar5fastcar5 Member Posts: 2
    Hi all:
    Own an 05XT5A - white exterior, grey trim,
    Have ~1k on it so far. It is beginning to loosen up, which is good, I want to start driving it!

    Anyway, did my first oil change and was lazying around at work, googled up this test and I thought it might be of interest to fellow Suby owners. Although, it is applicable to all "other" makes.
    neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/interval.html
  • fastcar5fastcar5 Member Posts: 2
    Kick in the pants power. What else is there?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, the H6 costs more to acquire in the first place.

    Gas mileage is about the same. My guess is a turbo owner that stays off boost (low revs) will fare better than with an H6, but one that drives hard will fare worse. Call that a draw.

    Not sure about insurance but you should call your agent and ask.

    The turbo may need a rebuild in, what, 120-160k miles? Even the old Legacy turbos would last at 120k miles or more, and technology has only made turbos better.

    Both prefer premium fuel, but especially the turbo.

    The H6 has been extremely reliable, while the turbo is unproven but looks good so far.

    So I don't see any significant differences besides the original price paid, to be honest.

    -juice
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Juice- I'm in denial. I haven't admitted that I'm a 2.5 turboholic. Maybe I need to slowly withdraw from the car. How much to ship it out to you for a month at a time? ;-) What if I go into withdrawal? Is it life threatening?

    It' a big decision between the turbo and normally aspirated engines. One is adequate, one is fast, and one is addictingly very fast!

    Now to get something noticeably faster is going to cost a lot more than I can afford! ;-)

    Good luck, all, in making your decisions. But your decision has consequences. . . ;-)

    tom
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    Juice, thanks for the input..
    I just checked with my insurance agent and replacing a 2001 Nissan Sentra with a 2005 Subaru Outback Limtited or LL Bean actually reduces my monthly rate by $5!!!! I was expecting an increase.. Wow.. That is even more reason to ditch the Sentra...

    Thanks!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yes, it is a very serious disease, no known cure.

    Sorry but you have to ship it one way until we determine the cause, which we estimate will take about, oh, 7 years to find.

    But don't worry, you could always step down into something slower, like a Porsche Cayenne S or a V10 Touareg.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    From a Subaru recommended maintanence schedule perspective, the H6:

    Has the first oil change at 3K miles (vs. 7.5K for the turbo).

    Does not require a camshaft belt change (it uses chains).

    Other than that, they're identical.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Belt, true. What is the interval for that? Figure $300-400 each time.

    But that still won't offset the higher cost of the H6.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Belt, around here it's $500-600/100K miles.

    -mike
  • katwaykatway Member Posts: 19
    The dealer finally called today to let me know that my VDC will arrive at the end of this month. He placed the order with SOA 3 months ago, but SOA has been slow in allocating these vehicles to the East Coast.

    I'm really looking forward to finally getting this car in my garage. The H-6 really impressed me with it's combination of smooth acceleration and performance.

    I have a Volvo V70 R and while the turbo provides some nice power on demand, it also has resulted in more engine wear due to the heat generated by the turbo engine, etc. So, based on my turbo experience, I opted for the long-term reliability reliability and smooth performance of the H-6 over the XT.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    That's great news. I'm glad your VDC is on it's way. Part of the reason could be that if your dealer is not very big, they don't get their top choices allocated.

    If not already, the dealer should have the VIN identified. That's another way to check if they really do have one on it's way. Call and let them know you need it for an insurance quote.

    Ken
  • snowbirdsnowbird Member Posts: 120
    Firstly, I left a $4,000 deposit. Secondly, no guarantee that new dealer would deliver car faster if this is a factory/allocation problem. I just wish my dealer could tell me where my car is at the moment, if they can't tell me the exact arrival date. But they cannot/would not even do that. Rather frustrating. Snowbird
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    You know it is weird.. At www.fitzmall.com the LL Bean's are actually priced lower (delivered internet price)than the XT Limited (auto). It seems that they are offering the Bean around 1100 under invoice and the XT Limited (auto) around 700 under invoice.. Great price either way, but it seems a little strange to me that the Bean would be cheaper than the XT Limited...
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    That suggests to me that the Outback XT is in greater demand than the LL Bean.

    Bob
  • dmagoondmagoon Member Posts: 8
    Pete,

    I'm in the greater Milwaukee area.

    Bad news, though. The local dealer service manager was able to recreate the problem on his own with their cars. He spoke with the SOA engineers who basically told him that it's going to work that way. They're trying to get good gas mileage and running lean. When you advance the throttle it doesn't richen it up in time. Per other posts it sure sounds like confirmation that it's a chip programming issue. Unfortunately it sounded like they won't fix it unless there're enough dissatisfied owners. I'm going back to my service manager and ask that he make my dissatisfaction known.

    That said, I still do really like the car.

    DM
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    One more thing -- next time you test drive the XT-Ltd, slide the shift lever to the left to engage sport mode, but do not use the +/- buttons on the steering wheel or toggle the lever (which would then invoke manu-matic mode). Drive around in sport mode for a while and see what you think. It's even more fun on the XT, and the auto trans shifts more like what I was accustomed to when I drive manual trans.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I know exactly what you mean. I drove my wife's TSX to work today. At lunchtime, I had to merge onto a busy highway and stomped the gas. My OB XT would have rocketed, but the TSX just kind of wheezed ahead. I had to floor it even more and get another downshift to get up to speed. Nothing like that 2.5 turbo in the Subaru...

    Craig
  • subierulessubierules Member Posts: 7
    Tom's post with his comment that power corrupts and he can't drive other cars anymore since they are just too slow may sound silly but I concur w/ those satements. I also have become annoyed at other cars I have driven since purchasing my GT wagon and I often think what the heck am I going to do when it is time to buy another vehicle. As a person who has previously owned economical mid-size cars w/ adequate power (or slightly under-powered), it is impossible (at least for me unless I have no choice) to return to those non-turbo, non-AWD days after owning this GT wagon.

    Leo
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.