Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

wrxrallyer · January 2006

Greetings, all!!

My apologies if this has already been covered, but can someone explain to me why the trip computers display rounded off numbers, rather than acual? More importantly, can this be reprogrammed and fixed?? Instant mileage in .5 mi increments just doesn't seem to instant, and the avg mpg in .3 increments is just plain silly!!

Thanks in advance to all!!

Oliver

zman3 · January 2006

I'm not sure why they do it this way. But given the fact that it seems like the average MPG is optimistic by about 1 MPG for many/most people, does it really matter?

I don't think 0.3 MPG really matters in the big picture. But that's just my not so humble opinion.

Karl

stever · January 2006

I guess this is another alternative for iPodding your '06:

iPod your Subaru Outback (Idealog)

My OB is a '97 and I don't iPod (just happened across the link), but it looked like it may be of interest.

Steve, Host

c_hunter · January 2006

And make sure you follow the feedback link below that where someone posts about the "real" aux-in solution!

kat95 · January 2006

In order to use the sport-shift do I have to be completly
stopped to switch into this mode?

thenorthface · January 2006

No, you can switch to SPORT mode anytime.
You can not switch to P or R while moving, but i guess you knew that allready

garandman · January 2006

If she is a "sedate " driver the 3.0s should be more than adequate performance wise. If you go for the VDC you also get that extra safety feature.

That's pretty funny!

poisson · January 2006

You have actually asked about two modes, both of which can be 'activated' anytime the vehicle is in Drive.
Sport is turned on when you slide the gear selector from D over to the manumatic side. At this point, you are still in full Auto, albeit with a more aggressive engine/transmission behavior.
From here, you can either shift up (+) or down (-) depending on your current gear (manumatic mode). The one thing I don't like about this is that when you go into the manumatic gate (just Sport mode without going up or down), there is no indication of the current gear. The only way to actually know this is to change gear. This is annoying.
Also, you can actually shift gears in full auto (non-sport) via the steering wheel controls. The engine will return to full auto and the appropriate gear after a few seconds. This is handy on the highway.

-mark

adam1999 · January 2006

I wanted to buy a Legacy Wagon GT Limited because of awd, sharp handling, power, leather, moonroof, but the problem is that I want a manual transmission which is no longer offered. I am going to test drive an Outback XT wagon manual tomorrow. I was wondering if the handling is not what I was looking for is it possible to lower the suspension on that car to achieve similar handling of the Legacy?

Also, to make this a two part question - I know gas mileage has a lot to do with the weight of you foot, but all things being equal for someone who drives mostly on country roads around 40 -50 mph what would be the gas mileage difference between the turbo and the non-turbo.

Thanks in advance for any input.

kens · January 2006

Since everyone has different expectations as to "sharp handling" I don't know if it's possible to answer your question in a meaningful way. It sounds like you are set up for a test drive so that'll speak volumes to your question.

In general, the OBXT will lean and push more through turns due to it's suspension setup and slightly taller tires. While it clearly outhandles SUVs and other vehicles with similar ground clearance, it's not going to provide the same handling as a GT. How much a trade off is acceptable really comes down to your personal preference.

When I drove an OBXT loaner while my LGT was in service, it felt like a bigger vehicle from a dynamic sense. Road bumps were more subdued but at the same time, the vehicle felt less willing to change direction.

As for gas milage, that's a hard one. I'd guesstimate that you'd see anywhere from a 3-5 mpg disadvantage with the turbo.

Ken

c_hunter · January 2006

Isn't that nuts that they dropped the 5MT wagon? I can't believe Subaru was so stupid, especially since they obviously can still build them.

If you're after the handling of the GT, then the XT will probably disappoint you, and it would be prohibitively expensive, and a kludge, to attempt to mod the suspension. There's a lot more difference than just the ride height.

You're looking at a 4-8 MPG penalty with the turbo, depending on the type/mix of driving you do. I regularly get 20-21mpg on my OB XT with a large bias of highway miles.

Try the LGT wagon with the 5EAT trans in sport mode and manumatic mode. You might decide you like it. After preferring manuals for years, the 5EAT is the first auto trans that doesn't feel like a penalty to me -- it's pretty darn good. I do think the manumatic mode is kind of a joke, but sport mode rocks.

CRaig

raybear · January 2006

There are still a few '05's left out there, maybe you can get one.

The regular 175-hp version does a lot better on gas mileage than the turbo, figure 5+ mpg on average.

bgsntth · January 2006

I was to the point where I was so displeased with the handling of my OBXT that I was looking at alternative vehicles. My main gripes with the handling were the large tendency toward understeer, high-speed mid-corner oscillation (pogoing, wallowing), and tendency for the rear-suspension to bottom-out on sharp impacts.

In one feld swoop, I replaced the OE 15mm RSB with a Legacy JDM OE 20mm RSB, re-aligned the front camber to -.4 degrees, and most importantly replaced the RE92's with Yokohama Advan ST's. The handling and ride have been transformed to a degree that I have never experienced with such relatively simple mods. I would easily wager that my OBXT has higher handling limits than a stock RE92 shod GT. I'm now driving it in the same manner as my old WRX with the SPD/STi suspension, and am completely content.

I wrote-up a long and detailed review at legacygt.com if you want the specific pro/cons.

fj60 · January 2006

I was in the San Francisco Bay Area over the weekend and was honked at and given a thumbs up or wave by three other Legacy('05/'06)drivers while on the road. Is this a common occurrence there?

thenorthface · January 2006

When I go into the manumatic gate (just Sport mode without going up or down), there IS an indication of the current gear. I have a -06 Outback and the display show the current gear and changes as it shifts. Just as when i shift gears myself in manual mode.

Today i left my car at Subaru for them to check why my rear hatch make noise in bumps.

garandman · January 2006

I don't know. If they did that in New England your arms would get tired.....

rob_m · January 2006

That's why I:

Wave only to fellow LGT owners (not too many around)
Give a thumbs up to STI (have to be crazy to own one in NE)
and Nod to WRX (got to show the kiddies some respect)

Rob M.

poisson · January 2006

That's a change then from '05. All I get is the green SPORT indicator and the green light next to "D". I am assuming you get the SPORT and also the gear with no green light next to "D", right?

I would love to have this. I wonder if the dealer can program this? I'll check next time I am in.
Thanks for the information.

thenorthface · January 2006

Yes I get the SPORT indicator lit and also the current gear displayed with red digits as in manual mode.
Should be a programming issue, but you never know. It could also be a difference from Japan produced vs. USA produced cars. Mine is from the Japanese factory as all european Subaru cars.

zman3 · January 2006

I don't think my 06 3.0R OB behaves this way. I'll check it out today. I only have 1500 mile son it so I have not used the Sport mode much. I am pretty sure once I put it in Sport mode, I need to actually hit the gear shift to put it in manual mode. Only after taking this action does the red gear indicator light up.

Karl

kens · January 2006

I'm going to guess it's a US vs. non-US difference. I believe some of the owners over at legacygtdotcom would have caught that by now.

Neat -- I wish my Sport mode did that too.

Ken

kens · January 2006

I do it all the time and have had a few waves/nods my way as well.

There's quite a big population of Subaru owners in Northern California as opposed to the LA area.

What were you driving? Maybe I was one of the people waving!

Ken

adam1999 · January 2006

Your post gives me hope that I can get a 5mt turbo wagon with good handling. It amazes me that you did not need to lower the height with new springs to get these results. Did you do any reasearch on changing the springs or shocks? I test drove the Outback yesterday and it has none of the quick and tight handling characteristics of the GT.

I went to that website but I could not locate your review could you help me find it.

Thanks,

fj60 · January 2006

Atlantic Blue wagon. I got honked in Tiburon, Stinson Beach and on the Richmond Bridge.

FJ60

c_hunter · January 2006

The biggest difference between the LegGT and Outback is that the Outback has much more suspension travel and heavier/bigger suspension bits. Unless you plan to totally rework the suspension (impractical) you will always be limited by the basic geometry. The other thing to keep in mind is that the LegGT has much bigger brakes, to accompany the more spirited driving you can do with the suspension. There are many factors that separate the two vehicles. While I agree that better tires and stiffer anti-roll bars will improve the Outback, ultimately it's got limitations you won't be able to easily work around.

Craig

bgsntth · January 2006

Agree with Craig, you are limited to the higher ground clearance and smaller rotors of the OBXT. But, I am amazed at how much the OBXT's handling improved with these simple mods. I'm coming from a WRX with the SPT suspension, lots of White Line bits, and S03's/Conti Extremes/RA1s, and I would honestly say that I believe that my OBXT as prepared has higher limits than my old WRX with the Conti Extreme all seasons. Call me a kook.

I'm not going to take it to the track, but for street driving its limits and handling characteristics are in the felonious range. I would love to a comparison against a stock GT with RE92's.

tsy · January 2006

In the past Subarus were criticized for oversteering during emergency handling, which would explain the smaller sway bar in the rear to promote understeer. For you changing the handling characteristics makes sense. But for the millions of other drivers out there, understeer is probably safer. Looking at all the different people driving outbacks here in the NW, I doubt many of them care that their OB doesn't have sharp handling. They just like that it has AWD, get's better mileage than other SUVs, and that they are a popluar car with the Jones's.

I think it would take a bit of suspension/tire mods to make an OB feel as sharp as my GT with 45 profile tires (I switched out the RE92a's BTW).

But your post is interesting- I think the OB does have more rubber on the road than my GT so maybe it does handle as well? At least until I change my suspension.

tom

locke2c · January 2006

In the past Subarus were criticized for oversteering during emergency handling, which would explain the smaller sway bar in the rear to promote understeer. For you changing the handling characteristics makes sense. But for the millions of other drivers out there, understeer is probably safer.

I agree with the understeer being safer for the masses. No argument there. But regarding the Subaru criticism for oversteering... ?? What's your source on that? I have never heard such a thing, and even the most aggressively tuned Subaru ever released, the WRX STi, still is setup for understeer. It understeers a lot more than a stock Evo, for comparison.

Chiming in a bit on the Outback versus Legacy GT comparo.. the main difference is not suspension geometry at all, as I think you'll find they are the same for any given generation of Outback and Legacy other than ride height, which solely lies in strut length and springs. (They both went to rear multilink in 2000, right?) Ride height is something, but I think the key difference that won't ever be eliminated / mitigated is weight if you're comparing the Legacy sedan with an Outback. If you are looking at Legacy wagon vs. Outback... um, I think ride height is about it.

~Colin

ateixeira · January 2006

Yep, both Legacy and Outback went from rear struts to rear multilink designs.

-juice

saedave · January 2006

One source for the oversteering comment is Consumer Reports. In addition, several reviewers for buff books.

I would be delighted to have a lower version of my VDC wagon....which was made truck height to keep CAFE problems away. One partial solution, though it might put miles on the odometer faster and uncalibrate the speedometer, is to put on 215-45 tires like on the GT. There might be a software fix for that problem.

smiller · January 2006

Ken,
Do you still have the "click" noise when stopping? My 2005 Outback does the same thing.

Thanks

tsy · January 2006

Sorry Colin- I didn't mean to imply what I read was from enthusiasts. Just comments I read on Consumer reports and reviews I've read for 'regular' people (although perhaps they were biased by CR). Not people who go out and buy Evos and Corvettes and BMWs- I wouldn't expect you to read this stuff. It wouldn't apply to you.

Hence my comment regarding safety for the general public. Maybe I didn't tie that in too clearly.

But I can start referencing everything I say in the future if you really want Colin.

I just figured this stuff was common knowledge. :P

tom

c_hunter · January 2006

I don't know about earlier models, but I just looked in the parts book for the 05+ models. For the rear suspension, there are at least 10 different parts between Leg and OB, including: strut, spring, trailing arm & bracket, end links, stabilizer bar, support links, bushings, brackets, stoppers, and bolts! I am guessing most of it has to do with suspension travel. There are fewer differences in the front suspension -- about 5-6 different parts there.

We discussed this over on legacygt about 1.5 years ago -- I believe several parts that are stamped steel or cast iron on the Outback are lighter on the Legacy. I seem to recall that, in some parts of the world, the Legacy GT even had a couple aluminum pieces as an upgrade from the base Legacy.

era174 · January 2006

No offence to g.a.y folks (and I support same s.e.x marriage / btw, does this forum have language filters?), but one of my colleagues joked about my new Legacy, saying Subarus are g.a.y cars. And he told me he had seen much more Subies when he got around San Francisco (you know what I mean). I took it as a joke anyway. I thought (still think) Subarus are for those who love sporty and safe cars.

Another funny and REAL story is about the Beetle. One of my friends from mainland China told me it is THE car for concubines. Lots of rich Chinese men buy the Beetle for their mistresses, he said. So, he will NEVER let his wife drive the Beetle so that he won't give a wrong impression to his Chinese community's people.

raybear · January 2006

Subaru policy is very supportive of alternate lifestyles, so much in fact that their VIP program includes "domestic partners" for qualification.

That may also apply to concubines, I'm not sure...

garandman · January 2006

OK, so I figured out how to shut off the 30 second repetitive seat belt beep.

But how can you shut off the honk honk when you enter the forums?

goneskiian · January 2006

Colin, Craig, Tom,
Doesn't the GT also have tighter steering than the XT? Or would that be changed with the suspension changes? I was thinking you might also have to replace the steering rack or at least some bushings.

No, I don't know much about what I'm talking about. I do know that the steering of my GT is a lot tighter than that of the standard Legacy. Not sure about the Outback XT. :confuse:

:P

Cheers!
-Ian

tsy · January 2006

Oh, right Ian. The GT gets a quicker rack- same ratios as the STi, although I'm not sure it's the exact same rack. Good pickup Ian!

tom

bobny11580 · January 2006

Finally got a little snow here on Long Island so I dusted off the Subaru OBXT with its new Blizzaks and went to a State Park with a large, empty parking lot. Played around with the limits and capabilities of my wagon and was very satisfied with the results. Did some switchback turns, hard accelaration, hard braking. Found the car and tires to be easy to control in all cases.

I'd been advised in some of these forums to practice in an isolated spot and appreciate the advise. Hopefully I will be better off in real world situations now.

c_hunter · January 2006

Cool! It was like a blizzard here in VA last night, but nothing stuck. The wind continues to be insane.

CRaig

thenorthface · January 2006

sweet Subaru weather

The forecast yesterday said we could expect 50cm of snow and some winds the upcoming days in northern Sweden...

rhodyjoe · January 2006

Hi Jay,
Have you had a chance to post any pics of the Hidden Hitch you installed on your OB XT?

Thanks,
- Joe

era174 · January 2006

A car guru told me he prefers German and Swedish brands because they usually have SOLID suspensions. He argued Toyota, Lexus, and some Japanese brands have a little soft suspensions and might have problems in emergent situations.

For example, when driving and making an emergent stop at 100km/h, the front of those cars with soft suspensions might go more downward toward the ground while their rear might go more upward, resulting in longer stopping lengths or even improper stopping (their front touching the ground and spinning...).

I'm wondering how valid his arguments are and how the Legacy and the other Subies stack up to those European cars with hard suspensions.

mvc_jones · January 2006

That is hogwash. To say a Saab 9-3 or a Mercedes C230 has a 'harder' suspension than a WRX STi makes no sense, even though all have 4 wheels and 4 doors, one is Swedish, one is German, one is Japanese, they are different animals altogether.

Comparing cars per class makes sense, or even across price range, but to generalize about the nationality of a make and its driving characteristics has little basis in reality.

It would be far more appropriate to compare a Nissan 350Z vs. a BMW Z4 vs. a Corvette and discuss traits than to generalize about a Japanese car vs. a German car vs. an American car and their very general qualities.

Anyway, car design, manufacture and marketing is so international now, it is hard to distinguish. The Acura TL I own is a Japanese car, designed in California, assembled in Ohio, with parts from America and Japan, and it has a stiffer suspension than my old German designed, German manufactured VW Passat with parts from all over Europe.

garandman · January 2006

A car guru told me he prefers German and Swedish brands because they usually have SOLID suspensions. He argued Toyota, Lexus, and some Japanese brands have a little soft suspensions and might have problems in emergent situations.

All cars sold have suspension systems designed to minimize dive under hard braking.

Sporty cars have bigger tires, brakes, and stiffer suspensions and do generally better in such tests. But there are just as many Japanese and American cars so configured as there are European. Most all of them stop from 60 in 115-130 feet or so.

c_hunter · January 2006

That's way too much of a generalization, as others have noted. I have no doubt that my Honda S2000 would easily outhandle/outbrake most German/Swedish cars. It's a super lightweight roadster with a flat indy-car style suspension geometry and huge brakes, which would give it an advantage in braking and handling. Obviously that's an unfair comparison, I'm just citing that as an example where you can't generalize by country of origin.

An interesting tidbit -- Subaru's active AWD system will shift power forward on braking to minimize dive.

Craig

tsy · January 2006

You mention Toyota and Lexus, which are the same, and then some other Japanese Brands. Definitely an overgeneralization. Lexus is a modern day Buick. Very comfortable, non-intrusive transportation. While it's not a BMW, it's still quite a decent handler and has very good brakes. But true, the suspension is soft.

I would guess your car guru friend is more of a car snob.

No offense, of course.

tom

lilengineerboy · January 2006

I looked back through the messages and did a search but just came up with OB stuff. I want to add fog lights to a '05 Legacy 2.5i wagon, and I was leaning towards the factory fog light kit.
Given that I am pretty mechanical, is this something I can install myself? Is the wiring already in place I just have to connect the switch and the lights to the harness? Also, does anyone know of a good source (online, perhaps) for these? Does anyone have them and love them or not care for them?
I miss not being able to see right in front of the car when driving slowly in bad weather. I really like the long range of the headlamps (even if the cut off pattern took a little getting used to), and I think the high beams are great, but having something that fills between the car and bottom of the headlights in bad weather would be great.
(If this is in the wrong Legacy discussion, sorry in advance)
--LEB

c_hunter · January 2006

There are numerous online subaru parts dealers such as subaruparts.com, subaru-parts.com, allsubaru.com, and newsubaru.com. My advice would be to pick the one closest to you with the best price. I really like Liberty Subaru in NJ (the last URL I gave) because their prices and service are good and they are 1-2 days away from me via UPS ground.

The kit should be super easy to install for someone like you.

The switch is something I don't know about. On my 05 Outback, the fog light switch is on the turn stalk, next to the other light switch ring. Previous Outbacks and Legacys have had the switch on the dash, near the driver's knee. I have no idea what they do for a switch on the accessory lights for an 05 Legacy.

Good luck!
Craig

scottmcphee · January 2006

In my 06 Legacy 2.5i wagon, I notice that only the driver's window switch is back-lit red showing the word "AUTO" but all other switches on the console in the door are not lit. Same goes for all other window switches on all other doors, dark at night. It appears there are lighting markers on these window switches but there's no LED behind them. Is this normal? Do they light up with higher trim levels (LTD?).. Can somebody please check on their car? (thanks)

If it's a case of missing LEDs to save a few manufacturing pennies.. then I was thinking of cracking open the switches and adding the necessary LEDs, or drilling an LED into the door panel from above to shine down on the window console switches.

Regards
Scott

Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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