By the looks of what has come up on various sites and in other markets, my guess is that the base models will have a 4 speaker system/single cd player, and the upper levels will offer a 6 speaker with a 6 disc in-dash changer.
This is a step down from what is offered in the current limited and H6 Bean/VDC models. (The Bean offers a 9 speaker (including subwoofer) and a 6 disc changer (in dash) with a 120 watt amplifier.
With a good sound system being high up on the list for prefered creature comforts, it makes no sense for Subaru to install lower end audio systems and drop the McIntosh completely. (It is still available in Japan, even in the Legacy)
A lot of manufacturers (including the direct competition) are offering Bose, Infinity, Monsoon... sound systems in their cars, so I think Subaru needs to expand their offering of the McIntosh setup.
Maybe Subaru's justification was that not enough McIntosh systems were being purchased to warrant the need for it in the new lineup. If it was offered as an option in vehicles other than the VDC, I can see a higher interest in it.
Either way, the competition is tough, and if they are attempting to attract first time Subaru buyers, there better be more than 6 speakers and no subwoofer offered.
Oh yeh, what's the word on the Navi system, Subaru?
No word yet on satelite radio. I sincerely doubt that this would be offered, especially since they aren't offering a McIntosh system or Navi.
From the pics that I have seen of the center stack, there does not appear to be an Aux in connector either. You might be stuck with a wonderful FM transmitter to get the sound from the satellite unit to the radio.
I sure hope not. Since GM owns 20 percent of FHI, I figured that XM was a serious possibility--then I would just get the GM Direct unit to convert that to Sirius.
I LOVE my satellite radio, and I am virtually certain I am going to get either an OB XT or a Legacy GT, with the latter the more likely.
I've become addicted to XM in our 04 Accord -- it's definitely something that I'll want in any new car I purchase. In fact, I'll probably end up adding it to my WRX before long, although I'd really prefer to have it all integrated in the dash like on the Accord.
With the way the 05 Legacy's dash is designed (lacking a regular DIN sized opening for the stereo), it's not going to be easy to add XM to it after the fact without a bunch of wires poking out from add on unit. Too bad...
There's a optional radio plate that can be had, well at least in Japan they have it, for aftermarket stereo's. Worse comes to worse, we can just order one...
I went to see my sales manager dealership friend yesterday and as she has always been right in the past I'm sure she is now.
I was told that the some of the Turbo models. The Outback XT Limited and the Legacy GTs Limiteds with have a choice of either black or taupe (tan) leather. They will actually have different model codes and everything. For example you could get a Black Legacy GT lim with Black or taupe leather. Not every color is available with the two choices, but most are. It's nice to have some choices.
I know the new Outback XT (turbo H4) and 3.0R (N/A H6) both reccommend premium gas. But does the turbo need premium more than the six, i.e would the occassional tank of regular be less harmful to performance or reliability of the N/A six engine compared to the turbo?? Is the engine management on the H6 more able to deal with detonation issues.
The H6 with more relaxed gearing should be able to make higher mpg than the turbo.
I really wish Subaru had made the H6 run on regular gas (even at the cost of a few bhp) or put AVCS on the N/A H4.
In talking over car choices with friends and family, it's funny how for some people a few $$$$ on the purchase price is OK as a one off, but a continued premium of 0.0$/gallon on fuel is not. Plus the newspapers these days are full of fuel price scare stories....
Also interesting is how some people can feak about a few cents in the price of feul, but pay little to attention the mileage a car gets when they purchase it.
I am just trying to spead the gospel a little. Several of my immediate circle are in the market for new vehicles, and they have this little problem with premium.....though will gladly buy a V6 that runs on regular but with inferior mpg .
For those of you that have an interest, all is not lost with the absence of McIntosh in the Outback.
The "high end" system will be made by Clarion; it should have a sub woofer; however, the latter is not yet confirmed. As some may know, Clarion owns McIntosh.
Clarion owns McIntosh, but the McIntosh R&D is seperate from Clarion. McIntosh products are not simply re-branded Clarion units.
McIntosh makes a system far superior to what Clarion will ever make. In the aftermarket scene, Clarion products tend to lean towards those who want louder and fancier looking units, whereas McIntosh products are for those who want high quality sound in their car.
Face it, Clarion would never build an amplifier as rich and warm sounding with as little distortion as a McIntosh unit.
Clarion may end up building a nice system for Subaru, but it won't be able to touch the Mcintosh in terms of quality of sound.
While I do not disagree with Sebastian's general comments about the distinction between McIntosh and Clarion, the comparison may be a bit more complex:
When Clarion purchased McIntosh in the 90's (for a bit under $30M), they quite sensibly maintained a level of independence for the brand. Accordingly, McIntosh continues to be a highly regarded, old school name in the high end field. I have used their products for some time.
On the other hand, it would be incorrect to draw a direct connection between the Subaru system and the McIntosh home units. Clearly, Clarion wished to leverage the name to compete with other "premium" auto systems. Whether they have succeeded or not, I will leave to the opinion of the individual listener.
However, one should not be too dismissive of Clarion; it is a more respected brand in its home country than here. Further, as in many audio (especially auto) companies, Clarion has a large range of product, from price sensitive low end, to much higher quality units that would please all but the connoisseur. What will come in the 2005's will be up to the Bean counters (pun intended) at Subaru.
The current H6 makes 212hp on premium. Using regular makes it dial back the ignition timing a little and Subaru has published output at 208hp with regular fuel.
But, before we conclude that's OK, the new H6 makes 250hp, so it's tuned a lot more aggressively. If the compression ratio is higher (very likely) and the timing was further advanced (also very likely) then it's just not a good idea to use regular fuel.
Do the math and it's about $150 extra per year even if you drive a lot.
Now, what I'd suggest if that money has an impact on your budget is to buy a 2004 left over.
Why? Well, right off the bat there is a huge incentive right now, $1500 I think. I saw an LL Bean at Fitz for $25.3k.
I bet the new ones will go for $28k or so, especially for the first year. Optimistically you might get one for $27k is the dealer is your brother or something.
OK, but still, that's $1700 more. That's more than 11 years' worth of savings by going with regular over premium.
So if it's a budget issue, go with the 2004 all the way. You could even do both, get a 2004 and use regular fuel, and save $3200 over the next decade.
Would like to throw my 2 cents in here regarding Audio systems Macintosh or otherwise.In the first place a car interior is a highly unsatisfactory sound stage to begin with.
(2)while I agree that Macintosh is probably superb equipment that is only part of the equasion, install it with less than good speakers and it will sound just as crappy as anything else.
Any high end audio equipment can be made to sound good in a car but none of them will ever come close to their potential because of all the competing noise .IMHO in a home environment with a dedicated sound room a true audiophile would be able to justify the cost of a high end system like Macintosh.
In reality few of us are true audiophiles and would be happy with a good system, I think the attraction of the Macintosh has as much to do with snob appeal as in I have a Macintosh what system have you got? In the end I think it was easier for Subaru to drop this system in order to keep the overall price of the car attractive.
I had a Plymouth Laser Turbo (Mitsubishi Eclipse)that was supposed to use premium fuel. I drove it for 40,000 miles using mostly mid grade and occasionally regular. There was never any knocking (detonation) and I could not detect any significant loss of performance in normal driving (to be fair, that car did not need 190 HP, so cutting down a couple notches didn't really hurt). The MPG was very good. too (avg 27 mpg).
But, if I could get a few more horses out of my 2003 Legacy SE wagon (4eat)I would gladly pay the extra 20cents for premium. Unfortunately, this car will never utilize the extra octane unless I shave the heads or bolt on a turbo.
FYI This was posted in a subaru forum on another site:
"I'm in New Mexico and I work at a Subaru store. The owner's just got back from a dealer meeting. The pricing on the Legacy GT 'from VP of SOA' will be $28K for base GT and about $29.5 for Limited GT."
When are the 05 Legacies due in? My car just got stolen, so I have to buy in the next few weeks. Looks like my time window will close before they come in. Too bad.
BUT...take advantage of the clearance prices on the 2004s. They are lower than ever. I saw an LL Bean Outback for $25.3k, remember that includes heated leather, 2 moonroofs, 6 cylinders, AWD, alloys, 6CD, climate control, etc.
Fitzmall.com has the H6 cloth models for under $23k, that's tempting too.
I try again....has anyone seen an image of the 2005 Outback sedan?
Thanks,
Ralph
PS...I bought my LLBean in Feb. 2001 for $27,890. w/ a subwoofer option and a premium Pursuit long-range remote-start alarm... and the car has been flawless for 56K miles. Need to buy my new plugs soon to avoid the SOA markup...
While I do not wish to turn this into an audio board, I wish to respond to Hondafriek's post:
There are undeniable challenges in creating a quality listening environment in a vehicle; However, any competent audio engineer will tell you that the predictable, uniform characteristics of a car's interior provide an excellent acoustic platform for a system, specifically engineered for that setting. At the high end of the factory systems is the Lexus Mark Levinson option. This puts to shame many custom installations costing obscene amounts of money.
The point of all of this is that good quality, car stereo has become a staple of the "near luxury" market, a direction that Subaru is obviously headed in. If one is going to compete, you must have the goods. My assumption is that Subaru will not skimp on this important element.
You are comparing apples to oranges here, the Lexus costs twice what a Subaru does.I don,t think in your wildest dreams Subau is ever going to go there.The lexus amounts to a living room on wheels and is almost totally isolated from road noise.
Of course in this environment you could create audiophile sound, unfortunately run of the mill automobiles do not share this advantage.
Excuse me, but new Subie models will hardly be run of the mill. And before you so dismissively say they won't be able to hold a candle to Lexi (in effect), don't you think we should at least see and drive them?
I concur with John; the Subaru models should be judged upon their merit, not an arbitrary classification.
The point of utilizing a Lexus example was simply to demonstrate what is possible, not necessarily desirable or attainable. I suggest we reserve final judgment until the 2005's are available for test drives, with your favorite CD. I am optimistic that we will be pleasantly surprised.
The first place I did not say or imply that Subaru can't or won't hold a candle to Lexus and I don't know where you got that idea from. I own an 01 GT wagon and Love it. What I did say was that you cannot take an overstuffed luxury boat like a Lexus and compare to a Subaru.
Not to denigrate Subaru in anyway what I implied was that in terms of cost they won't go anywhere near Lexus that simply is not their market niche. Also if you take and stuff a Subaru as full of sound deadening materials as a Lexus you could probably create the same sound enviroment.
I also have to laugh here, shows how easily folks forget, for some the lack of a Macintosh sound system is a deal breaker, yet when it was first introduced in the high end 6 cylinder, Subaru was castigated because it was only a single CD player with no CD changer available.
Oh, and in conclusion here in the automotive world there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that Subaru if it wants can compete with any car maker for quality.
I think that having the McIntosh audio system is less about snob appeal and more about having a comfortable driving environment. Individual features such as dual zone climate control, 4 stage heated seats (as opposed to 2) don't mean a whole lot on their own, but they all add up to paint a bigger, better looking picture. I would rather have a single CD McIntosh system than a 6 disc Panasonic or Clarion.
"while I agree that Macintosh is probably superb equipment that is only part of the equasion, install it with less than good speakers and it will sound just as crappy as anything else."
The speakers are McIntosh speakers too, and none of the components are "off the shelf". The system was tuned for the car, much like the way the Levinson system was for the Lexus. Sound deadening materials were also used in the VDC exclusively for the McIntosh.
The reason that it did not sell well for Subaru was that it was in the most expensive car they had to offer, the VDC.
More and more cars are offering a 200+watt (the magic number for many people) Bose, Infinity, etc... sound systems with a dozen speakers scattered about the cabin. For someone who wants a good quality sound, putting up with the "good old factory stock" may lower the car one notch on the "enjoyable" scale.
I know that the speakers are Macintosh, the point I was making the head unit is only part of the system. It has been pointed out on another thread that he total cost of the Macintosh system was $2800.You also make an excellent point in that it was installed in the most expensive Sube.
From the discussions on this and other forums the demographic that buy suburus have a mental price ceiling and it seems to $30,000USD or lower.I think the MSRP of the VDC is around$34,000USD and they could not sell them, they were and are heavily dicounted to move them.
Lets be realistic if Subaru is to hold the line on pricing some things Like The Macintosh are not going to make it, also a large majority just want a decent sound system like an MP3 player with and auxilary input.
I also think that it is a misconception that Subaru are going upscale and Luxury, while it is generally acknowledged that the new car is a quantom leat forward in quality they are hardly positioning it as a luxury car and the eventual pricing will show that.
Honda, Toyota, and Nissan had to create new divisions to move into the luxury market, nobody was going to for instance accept an Accord heading over $30.000USD no matter how well contented. So they created Acura built a slightly bigger Accord and called a Legend and Viola the rest is history
With the big window on the roof of a new Forester PP or a new Legacy or Outback open, it would be hard to appreciate the value of the subtle improvements of top-end audio components. I suspect a 'good' quality 200W system would be more than suitable for the listening environment. My last "new" car was a 01 Mitsu Eclipse Spyder GT with the factory 200W Infinity 'premium' system. It was just perfect for listening to everything from Lynard Skynard to Sinatra while rolling under a starry canopy at 70 mph. The key, I think, was speaker location: tweeters on the outside edges of the upper dash, mid range in the center of the dash and full range speakers mounted fairly high in the panels behind the front seats....a solution to volume versus wind velocity. I am confident that Subaru has engineered the audio components and installation with a lot of careful consideration . In this modern age of automotive audio enginering, I am certain that the manufacturer and component supplier can develop a better-integrated system than the 20 year olds selling top end components from a small store in the local strip mall.
In response to various posts: I think what you are looking at here is a sound "quality" vs sound "quantity" thing. Subaru is not going to engineer two 12" woofers in the trunk and a 1000 watt MTX amp. Sure, SOA can come up with a great sounding installation, but that is not what the 22yr olds who drive these things want. There is no such thing as clarity at 120db.
Also, thanks for the suggestions on the new Legacy. My car got recovered, so maybe I can wait now!
I am very happy with the factory upgraded system in my GT LTD 30th. While not a killer system, with the 6 speakers and powered sub, I can still hear it with the windows and sunroof open while doing 80 down the highway.
I started to upgrade the system and replaced the front speakers with a pair of pioneer coax. I put the original speakers back the same day.
It is a common misconception that paper speakers equals cheap. NOT necessemarily. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Some of the world's very best speakers have paper cones.
johnclineii - very true about paper cones. Not so great with tweeters but in the 4" - 10" driver range paper does many things better than composites. I hope there are not too many people on this board like me who have more "invested" in their home stereos than their cars. Audio Nervosa is a worse disease than being a car nut.
Poor otis123; nobody responding to him! I just wanted to throw in there, I have seen 2 pictures of the new sedan. I don't know if they're public yet, but the pictures are in the dealer's ordering guide for 05 models. They arrived Tuesday. Go see if your local dealer will show you!
You might like to know that the new Outback / Legacy wagon with side + curtain airbags has just scored the highest ever safety rating (35.52 out of 37) & 5 stars in the new car assessment program. The cars without the head (curtain) airbags were also tested and became the first cars ever without side head airbags to score 5 stars (at a slightly lower outright score).
I have the full NCAP results in front of me that I printed off from their website yesterday. Do you think I can remember the URL today... or the way I got there?... nope!
gearhead: It was supposed to take premium? Hmmm I had my 91 Turbo for 8.5 years and did not have any probs with the engine using reg/mid grade.
Speakers: I installed a higher-end pioneer deck w CD in my 00 OB soon after delivery. The installer gave me a demo after install, and commented several times how pleasantly surprised he was with the stock speakers. Although he could have profited, he recomended against changing them unless I was willing to spend big $$$. The speakers sounded horrible with the the stock deck. I still have the stock speakers (added the 2 tweeters on the door) and am very happy with the sound.
Comments
This is a step down from what is offered in the current limited and H6 Bean/VDC models. (The Bean offers a 9 speaker (including subwoofer) and a 6 disc changer (in dash) with a 120 watt amplifier.
With a good sound system being high up on the list for prefered creature comforts, it makes no sense for Subaru to install lower end audio systems and drop the McIntosh completely. (It is still available in Japan, even in the Legacy)
A lot of manufacturers (including the direct competition) are offering Bose, Infinity, Monsoon... sound systems in their cars, so I think Subaru needs to expand their offering of the McIntosh setup.
Maybe Subaru's justification was that not enough McIntosh systems were being purchased to warrant the need for it in the new lineup. If it was offered as an option in vehicles other than the VDC, I can see a higher interest in it.
Either way, the competition is tough, and if they are attempting to attract first time Subaru buyers, there better be more than 6 speakers and no subwoofer offered.
Oh yeh, what's the word on the Navi system, Subaru?
From the pics that I have seen of the center stack, there does not appear to be an Aux in connector either. You might be stuck with a wonderful FM transmitter to get the sound from the satellite unit to the radio.
I LOVE my satellite radio, and I am virtually certain I am going to get either an OB XT or a Legacy GT, with the latter the more likely.
With the way the 05 Legacy's dash is designed (lacking a regular DIN sized opening for the stereo), it's not going to be easy to add XM to it after the fact without a bunch of wires poking out from add on unit. Too bad...
Brian
I think they'll let the aftermarket serve that small niche within a niche.
I don't think it'll get satellite either, but an Aux input would be a smart addition.
They do sell a face plate in Japan that lets you install any standard sized double DIN stereo with a custom fit look.
-juice
Today my family and I got a deal on 2004 L.L. Bean that we could not pass up.
Thanks to everyone in here for their insight and wisdom.
Sincerely,
Jeff
I was told that the some of the Turbo models. The Outback XT Limited and the Legacy GTs Limiteds with have a choice of either black or taupe (tan) leather. They will actually have different model codes and everything. For example you could get a Black Legacy GT lim with Black or taupe leather. Not every color is available with the two choices, but most are. It's nice to have some choices.
Congrats on that Bean purchase, stick around, though, for tips and advice during your ownership.
-juice
I know the new Outback XT (turbo H4) and 3.0R (N/A H6) both reccommend premium gas. But does the turbo need premium more than the six, i.e would the occassional tank of regular be less harmful to performance or reliability of the N/A six engine compared to the turbo?? Is the engine management on the H6 more able to deal with detonation issues.
The H6 with more relaxed gearing should be able to make higher mpg than the turbo.
I really wish Subaru had made the H6 run on regular gas (even at the cost of a few bhp) or put AVCS on the N/A H4.
In talking over car choices with friends and family, it's funny how for some people a few $$$$ on the purchase price is OK as a one off, but a continued premium of 0.0$/gallon on fuel is not. Plus the newspapers these days are full of fuel price scare stories....
-Ian
I am just trying to spead the gospel a little. Several of my immediate circle are in the market for new vehicles, and they have this little problem with premium.....though will gladly buy a V6 that runs on regular but with inferior mpg .
The "high end" system will be made by Clarion; it should have a sub woofer; however, the latter is not yet confirmed. As some may know, Clarion owns McIntosh.
McIntosh makes a system far superior to what Clarion will ever make. In the aftermarket scene, Clarion products tend to lean towards those who want louder and fancier looking units, whereas McIntosh products are for those who want high quality sound in their car.
Face it, Clarion would never build an amplifier as rich and warm sounding with as little distortion as a McIntosh unit.
Clarion may end up building a nice system for Subaru, but it won't be able to touch the Mcintosh in terms of quality of sound.
Just my $.02
When Clarion purchased McIntosh in the 90's (for a bit under $30M), they quite sensibly maintained a level of independence for the brand. Accordingly, McIntosh continues to be a highly regarded, old school name in the high end field. I have used their products for some time.
On the other hand, it would be incorrect to draw a direct connection between the Subaru system and the McIntosh home units. Clearly, Clarion wished to leverage the name to compete with other "premium" auto systems. Whether they have succeeded or not, I will leave to the opinion of the individual listener.
However, one should not be too dismissive of Clarion; it is a more respected brand in its home country than here. Further, as in many audio (especially auto) companies, Clarion has a large range of product, from price sensitive low end, to much higher quality units that would please all but the connoisseur. What will come in the 2005's will be up to the Bean counters (pun intended) at Subaru.
But, before we conclude that's OK, the new H6 makes 250hp, so it's tuned a lot more aggressively. If the compression ratio is higher (very likely) and the timing was further advanced (also very likely) then it's just not a good idea to use regular fuel.
Do the math and it's about $150 extra per year even if you drive a lot.
Now, what I'd suggest if that money has an impact on your budget is to buy a 2004 left over.
Why? Well, right off the bat there is a huge incentive right now, $1500 I think. I saw an LL Bean at Fitz for $25.3k.
I bet the new ones will go for $28k or so, especially for the first year. Optimistically you might get one for $27k is the dealer is your brother or something.
OK, but still, that's $1700 more. That's more than 11 years' worth of savings by going with regular over premium.
So if it's a budget issue, go with the 2004 all the way. You could even do both, get a 2004 and use regular fuel, and save $3200 over the next decade.
-juice
(2)while I agree that Macintosh is probably superb equipment that is only part of the equasion, install it with less than good speakers and it will sound just as crappy as anything else.
Any high end audio equipment can be made to sound good in a car but none of them will ever come close to their potential because of all the competing noise .IMHO in a home environment with a dedicated sound room a true audiophile would be able to justify the cost of a high end system like Macintosh.
In reality few of us are true audiophiles and would be happy with a good system, I think the attraction of the Macintosh has as much to do with snob appeal as in I have a Macintosh what system have you got?
In the end I think it was easier for Subaru to drop this system in order to keep the overall price of the car attractive.
Cheers Pat.
The MPG was very good. too (avg 27 mpg).
But, if I could get a few more horses out of my 2003 Legacy SE wagon (4eat)I would gladly pay the extra 20cents for premium. Unfortunately, this car will never utilize the extra octane unless I shave the heads or bolt on a turbo.
Jim
"I'm in New Mexico and I work at a Subaru store. The owner's just got back from a dealer meeting. The pricing on the Legacy GT 'from VP of SOA' will be $28K for base GT and about $29.5 for Limited GT."
That would put street prices at about $26k-28k, certainly competitive.
-juice
BUT...take advantage of the clearance prices on the 2004s. They are lower than ever. I saw an LL Bean Outback for $25.3k, remember that includes heated leather, 2 moonroofs, 6 cylinders, AWD, alloys, 6CD, climate control, etc.
Fitzmall.com has the H6 cloth models for under $23k, that's tempting too.
-juice
Thanks,
Ralph
PS...I bought my LLBean in Feb. 2001 for $27,890. w/ a subwoofer option and a premium Pursuit long-range remote-start alarm... and the car has been flawless for 56K miles. Need to buy my new plugs soon to avoid the SOA markup...
There are undeniable challenges in creating a quality listening environment in a vehicle; However, any competent audio engineer will tell you that the predictable, uniform characteristics of a car's interior provide an excellent acoustic platform for a system, specifically engineered for that setting. At the high end of the factory systems is the Lexus Mark Levinson option. This puts to shame many custom installations costing obscene amounts of money.
The point of all of this is that good quality, car stereo has become a staple of the "near luxury" market, a direction that Subaru is obviously headed in. If one is going to compete, you must have the goods. My assumption is that Subaru will not skimp on this important element.
Of course in this environment you could create audiophile sound, unfortunately run of the mill automobiles do not share this advantage.
Cheers Pat.
The point of utilizing a Lexus example was simply to demonstrate what is possible, not necessarily desirable or attainable. I suggest we reserve final judgment until the 2005's are available for test drives, with your favorite CD. I am optimistic that we will be pleasantly surprised.
Not to denigrate Subaru in anyway what I implied was that in terms of cost they won't go anywhere near Lexus that simply is not their market niche. Also if you take and stuff a Subaru as full of sound deadening materials as a Lexus you could probably create the same sound enviroment.
I also have to laugh here, shows how easily folks forget, for some the lack of a Macintosh sound system is a deal breaker, yet when it was first introduced in the high end 6 cylinder, Subaru was castigated because it was only a single CD player with no CD changer available.
Oh, and in conclusion here in the automotive world there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that Subaru if it wants can compete with any car maker for quality.
Cheers Pat.
"while I agree that Macintosh is probably superb equipment that is only part of the equasion, install it with less than good speakers and it will sound just as crappy as anything else."
The speakers are McIntosh speakers too, and none of the components are "off the shelf". The system was tuned for the car, much like the way the Levinson system was for the Lexus. Sound deadening materials were also used in the VDC exclusively for the McIntosh.
The reason that it did not sell well for Subaru was that it was in the most expensive car they had to offer, the VDC.
More and more cars are offering a 200+watt (the magic number for many people) Bose, Infinity, etc... sound systems with a dozen speakers scattered about the cabin. For someone who wants a good quality sound, putting up with the "good old factory stock" may lower the car one notch on the "enjoyable" scale.
It has been pointed out on another thread that he total cost of the Macintosh system was $2800.You also make an excellent point in that it was installed in the most expensive Sube.
From the discussions on this and other forums the demographic that buy suburus have a mental price ceiling and it seems to $30,000USD or lower.I think the MSRP of the VDC is around$34,000USD and they could not sell them, they were and are heavily dicounted to move them.
Lets be realistic if Subaru is to hold the line on pricing some things Like The Macintosh are not going to make it, also a large majority just want a decent sound system like an MP3 player with and auxilary input.
I also think that it is a misconception that Subaru are going upscale and Luxury, while it is generally acknowledged that the new car is a quantom leat forward in quality they are hardly positioning it as a luxury car and the eventual pricing will show that.
Honda, Toyota, and Nissan had to create new divisions to move into the luxury market, nobody was going to for instance accept an Accord heading over $30.000USD no matter how well contented.
So they created Acura built a slightly bigger Accord and called a Legend and Viola the rest is history
Cheers Pat.
I am confident that Subaru has engineered the audio components and installation with a lot of careful consideration . In this modern age of automotive audio enginering, I am certain that the manufacturer and component supplier can develop a better-integrated system than the 20 year olds selling top end components from a small store in the local strip mall.
Mark
I think what you are looking at here is a sound "quality" vs sound "quantity" thing. Subaru is not going to engineer two 12" woofers in the trunk and a 1000 watt MTX amp. Sure, SOA can come up with a great sounding installation, but that is not what the 22yr olds who drive these things want. There is no such thing as clarity at 120db.
Also, thanks for the suggestions on the new Legacy. My car got recovered, so maybe I can wait now!
Ken upgraded to aftermarket speakers and gave me his.
Well, guess what? The rears are still paper dual-cones! Just higher watts.
The fronts were finally two-ways, but again, still paper.
Keep in mind that's the OE Premium Sound. The MacIntosh might have slightly better speakers, I dunno, but anyone wanna bet they're still paper?
-juice
I started to upgrade the system and replaced the front speakers with a pair of pioneer coax. I put the original speakers back the same day.
I would be quite happy if this setup was available on the 05. Preferably standard on the GT LTD.
You might like to know that the new Outback / Legacy wagon with side + curtain airbags has just scored the highest ever safety rating (35.52 out of 37) & 5 stars in the new car assessment program. The cars without the head (curtain) airbags were also tested and became the first cars ever without side head airbags to score 5 stars (at a slightly lower outright score).
These links to articles might work...
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/03/24/1079939707569.html
http://www.subaru.com.au/news/?newsid=11969
There's lots more out there.
I have the full NCAP results in front of me that I printed off from their website yesterday. Do you think I can remember the URL today... or the way I got there?... nope!
I will repost if I find it.
John
Good news about the safety scores.
-juice
Speakers: I installed a higher-end pioneer deck w CD in my 00 OB soon after delivery. The installer gave me a demo after install, and commented several times how pleasantly surprised he was with the stock speakers. Although he could have profited, he recomended against changing them unless I was willing to spend big $$$. The speakers sounded horrible with the the stock deck. I still have the stock speakers (added the 2 tweeters on the door) and am very happy with the sound.