Volvo XC90 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

lev_berkovich · August 2004

I will highly recommend a Calabasas Volvo.

I was really impressed with the guy who has handled the OSD program, as well as with other sales people there.

I was there at least four times, with my wife, my younger daughter, my older daughter, choosing the colors and options, and even if I would indicate that I am going to take an OSD, I would be treated with a full attention and a lot of respect.

When it was a time for us to choose an engine, I have requested two extensive (about an hour each) test drives on both 2.5T and T6, and did not notice even a smallest hesitation. The sales person made an appointment with me for Saturday, and was waiting for me promptly.

Also,
The VCNA made an error on the order confirmation and did not indicate an extended insurance, that I have ordered. I have stopped by the dealer, to fix it, but as soon as I walked to the showroom, was greeted by the person, who handles the OSD orders. He said, that he has reviewed my order, as soon as confirmation has arrived to the dealer, noticed a discrepancy and corrected it right away, contacting the Overseas delivery department. It was a very professional touch. You do not see it much these days.

The service department is great too.
While I was under the warranty, and now when I have an VIP coverage, I am always offered a comprehensive check-up, any time when I am there for the maintenance. And I did not have to even ask, but a few components were replaced by the dealer, because they have determined that they were faulty - the radiator fan assembly, that was allegedly draining the battery (though, I am still convinced, that the battery was plainly old), the front struts, though I never complained about any noise from the front suspension, just to name a few.

lawrencexc90 · August 2004

My option sheet shows heated seats as an option for $425 for 2005 models... it could be wrong, but the sheet has been pretty accurate so far.

To answer the previous question about pricing - My total price has ended up the same (about $100 cheaper actually). The base price for the vehicle has gone down, but the accessory packages have gone up.
-LR

lev_berkovich · August 2004

The new Tourist price list on web does not show the heated seats as an option - just as a part of the $625 Climate package. It could be different for the Military price list.

I personnaly would end up paying almost $800 more for the less of the car (minus the speed sensitive steering). I have configured my "would be 2005" car at $41,600 without that option, while I have paid $40,800 with it.

Oh, yeah, I would get a luggage cover as a cancellation prize in 2005.

habitat1 · August 2004

$800 difference between a 2005 and 2004 is less than 2%. I suspect that, even with exactly the same mileage and same condition, a 2005 would be wrth $2,000 - $3,000 more in resale value in 3-4 years. At least that's the way it looks on comparably priced cars if you look backwards from today using Edmunds used car values.

So it appears to me that the 2005 is at least as relatively good of a deal as the 2004, perhaps a bit better.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

Edward,
Sometimes I am really amazed with you logic.

I will save the whole $40,000 in the resale value, if I will not buy my car for another 3-4 years.

Why wouldn't I do just that?

The 2005 model will be just as old in July of 2005, as a 2004 model in July of 2004. You need a car when you need it, not when it have a "highest" resale value.

I wish I could be so flexible, and be able to take my European vacations on a wimp when Volvo changes their model year.

Plus, I plan to keep my car till it dies, that's why I buy Volvo (remember our reliability/durability discussions)and then, when the total value of a car is a few hundred bucks - who cares about the MY?

I was talking about my specific car and my specific situation, where if I would wait for another year, I will end up paying $800 more for the lesser car. And it's not going to change, no matter what.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

I went and priced two used cars using the Kelly Blue Book - an official "quasi-Bible" that is widely used in the industry.

The cars are 2001 S80 2.9 and 2000 S80 2.9 with 60,000 miles in good condition.

The trade-in values are, respectively - 13, 465 and 12, 640.

The suggested retail values are - 20,100 and 18,815.

Given, that the "real life" sale price is always somewhere in the middle, the newer MY could be about $1000 better in it's resale value after 3-4 years.

It is nothing, compare to the discounts you normally get for the "past MY" cars, when the new one have arrived.

Which supports a conventional wisdom of many generations of Russian immigrants - make a deal on a "past MY", when the "new MY" just arrived, especially, if there are significant changes in the style. You will be way ahead of the game several years down the road.

The ambitious person (who wants to drive the newest model) pays a premium.

lawrencexc90 · August 2004

I really am probably sticking my nose where it doesn't belong, but...

IMHO, We're all arguing semantics. We all like the XC-90 and appreciate that it is a vehicle that, whether a 2004 or a 2005, will give us pleasure for however long we own it. We get both safety and a smile on our faces at the same time... and isn't that the point of having a car that is more than just four wheels and an engine?
-LR

lev_berkovich · August 2004

We do,

habitat1 do not. It's a mental exercise for him. He does not own Volvo, unlike us, again, and I doubt that he ever will.

I like to argue safe topics too.

Though, I will stop, if this bothers you (or other readers).

I like to "split hairs" and habitat1 is an interesting opponent, because he has a good ability to substitute the subject of the discussion to make his point. And I have fun, trying to fence it...

habitat1 · August 2004

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I wasn't suggesting an indefinite postponement of a car purchase to save on depreciation. Although, if you have a good set of walking shoes, that does work.

I was merely suggesting that a new 2005 now at $800 more than a 2004 was a month or two ago isn't a bad deal, if you do plan on selling or trading in 4-5 years or less.

My personal example: I bought a new 2002 Honda S2000 in November of 2001. I could hav bought a brand new 2001 model for about $1,000 less. I went for the 2002. I traded it in after 2 1/2 years and 20k miles this May. The price I got in trade in was about $2,000 more than they would have given me for a 2001. Not to mention, that I got to enjoy severl improvements introduced in 2002, like a better stereo, glass rear window, etc.

I have found that buying at the end of a model year for a discount rarely equates to enough savings to make up for the diminished resale in 3-4-5 years. If you intend to keep the car 6+ years, then you may indeed be better off taking the older model at a discount, since all resale values are fairly diimished after 6-7 years. And this only pertains to those sitting on the fence in the late summer, with the flexibility to wait a couple of months. Or don't mind walking.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

Edward,
I have checked the trade-in values for the Honda S2000 MY2001 and MY2002 with 50000 miles in good condition.

Surprisingly, actually, the 2001 has the higher trade-in value than the 2002 one - 17,465 vs. 17,000.

So, I really, seriously doubt that you will be able to get $2000 extra for the car that has been sold at the same time 3-4 years down the road, just because it has a different MY indicated somewhere on a placard under the hood.

Dealers do not care - they go by the Blue Book or similar source, and private party asks - When did you buy it, not What model year is it, unless there were significant style differences between the two model years.

I understood your point, but found it both questionable and non-applicable to my posting.

Finally,
If you could only get a $1000 of a price for the "past MY", while the "new MY" was already on the dealer's lot, you did not do a good job negotiating.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

And just to get it out of my system, I did similar comparison, using Edmunds calculator for your S2000.

I've got 17,523 for the 2001 and 19,168 for the 2002 for the trade-in value.

Where did you find that $2-3000 difference that you are referring to?

habitat1 · August 2004

According to Edmunds, the trade in value on my 2002 S2000 with 18,000 miles in outstanding condition is $22,163 for my zip code. A similar mileage/condition 2001 has a trade in of $20,670 for an approximately $1,500 difference. However, Edmunds does not take into account some real market factors. For example, the "value" of the glass rear window and certain other improvements for the 2002 MY are not really reflected by Edmunds. In order to qualify as "outstanding" a 3 year old 2001 model S2000 would be required to have the rear plastic window replaced at a cost of $400-$500. I actually received $22,000 trade in on my S2000, essentially the full value for an "outstanding" car, no questions asked. In my experience, the older the model year of the trade in, the LESS likely you will get full trade in value for your vehicle regardless of what Edmunds, KBB, etc say. The likelihood of a dealer agreeing that your trade is "outstanding" geometrically declines the older the model year.

Edmunds is good, but not perfect. The 2004 TL 6-speed with HPT package that I traded for is listed as having a MSRP of $35,395 and a "TMV" of $35,067. My actual price was $33,308 at the dealer that took my S2000; over $1,750 less than the "TMV".

As far as my negotiating skills, I bought a brand new 2002 S2000 in November of 2001 for $32,000 even. The MSRP was $32,880 and, at that time, the Edmunds TMV for my zip code was $36,880 ($4,000 premium). For California, the "TMV" was $40,000+. The 2001 that I didn't buy was sold 2 weeks later to an Arizona doctor for $35,000. I met him when I went in for my tags. He claimed there was a 6 month wait list in the Phoenix area. The only reason I got a below MSRP price was that I had done my research and walked into the dealership with my checkbook, no trade, on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving as snow started falling. The entire transaction took 30 minutes, including 15 minutes for them to wiggle the 2002 out of their interior showroom floor. Three days later, it was 60 degrees and sunny.

Look at the Edmunds "TMV" for the XC90 and tell me if you think that it's accurate. For a fully loaded T6, the TMV is about $1,100 under MSRP $2,500 over invoice. In fact, I could pick one up immediately for $1,500 to 2,000 UNDER invoice, a price which appears consistent with deals others are getting in this forum.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

OK, Edward,
So your position is to buy the latest model year at premium, trade car in after just a few (2-3) years.
Mine is - to buy at the discount price (previous MY, if possible) and keep a car till it is fully amortized.

Both position are valid, I think, and just a reflection of our different life style.

I just think that the car dealers love people like you and hate people like me.

And we can let our readers to decide what is more suitable for them.

First of all - some of my principals:
- there is no car in the world that is worth paying more than 2% over the invoice.
- you should not sell your old car, unless you can get a retail price for it. Why let a used car dealer make a profit on your trade?

I live by those principals pretty much. I do not remember paying more than $500 over invoice for many years. And I am reluctant to sell my Mazda MPV 1998, unless I will get $500 over KBB suggested retail price (not a trade-in). If I can not - I will de-comission a car for a year, till my daughter comes back from Spain, and will pass it on her. It costs just $10 in CA.

Now,

Are you aware that every mile you drove S2000 costed you $0.6 ($10000 over 18000 miles).

On other side, every mile I drove my S80 costed me so far 0.43 ($35000 over 81000 miles) and it still have at least $10,615 in residual value (KBB trade-in for my ZIP code and good conditions), and I consider that residual value, my cost per mile is $0.30. That is why I have no problems to use my personal car for the business purposes and get reimbursed at IRS rate of $0.375.

Also, I consider to keep my car for another 4 years, at least 150000 miles. You can do the math on what my cost per mile would be. And I do remember about maintenance - so far I am covered by the extended warranty and did not pay anything on a top of the regular maintenance.

The warranty is $2265, so additional - $0.027 less than 3 cents).

So, I am pitching for the conventional wisdom of my heritage -
By late in the model year life cycle, especially, just before the style is replaced at the biggest discount you can get, and keep a car for as long as it can be maintained at the reasonable cost.

You will save a megabuck by doing that.

And forget about all those nifty calculation in Edmunds. Edmunds lives on automotive industry, not on a consumer's support.

The only useful figures there are - invoice and incentives. But these are public figures anyway. Dealer can not lie to you about them. They might not volunteer, but if asked, have to disclose them.

I have been using these figures well before the Internet. Had to pay to the Consumer Report, so I could do my homework, but never had a situation when I could not get these numbers from the dealer at the point of negotiation.

habitat1 · August 2004

I think we agree more than you think.

I bought a 1995 Nissan Maxima in September 1994 for $20,700. It's still running perfectly and looking darn good with 153,000 miles. I've been offered $4,500 to sell it, but prefer to move it to our second house as a back up car. The total cost of depreciation is 13.5 cents, the net cost, less the current $4,500 value, is 10.6 cents.

As for the S2000, it was a "fun" car, so, yes the cost per mile was high. Only about 1/2 of the cost of the Boxster S I considered, but definitely higher than I expect out of a daily driver.

And I very much respect your strategy to buy the less expensive, earlier model year and drive it into the ground. That is a financially prudent approach. My point was for those that don't subscribe to this approach because they want a new car every 3-5 years, buying the later model year is generally made up for in the difference in resale value.

I guess we disagree slightly on the 2% over invoice target. There are numerous cars out there that I wouldn't pay invoice for, others that I would pay more for. It's supply and demand, and I'd be looking to get the best deal possible for market conditions. But $10,000 off adds for a Ford Explorer wouldn't get me to consider it in lieu of a XC90.

Finally, $2,265 for an extended warranty on the XC90?? An Acura 7 year 100k warranty on my 2004 TL is $1,080. The price for my Honda S2000, with boatloads of sophisticated engineering on the engine, chassis, transmission, brakes, etc. would have only been $1,040. I can guess why the Volvo is so expensive - a friend traded his S80 recently after paying $1,500 for a new alternator at 60,000 miles.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

I always believe that a good discussion brings people together rather than drives them apart...

A couple of comments -

2% over invoice is not a target, but a maximum allowance that I am willing to pay, so the dealer can have a fair profit for the fast moving car.

Last 6 years - since my 1998 Mazda MPV, I was buying cars under the invoice (two last ones - through Volvo OSD).

Getting back to my previous statement, that a car is an expensive toy - my strategy is to define my desired "bracket" - normally as expensive as I can afford at any given moment - large European sedan, upscale cross-over SUV, etc. - and then, look for the most reasonable deals in that bracket.

Consider that, Volvo makes a whole lot of "economical" sense. But it might not have any sense to others.

Volvo is very sophisticated in "under the skin" design. By the way - that $2265 is for the S80.

S80 has a totally unique drivetrain design with traversed mount in-line six. That, plus a limited volume makes this car more expensive to repair. Honda shares a lot of parts with all the other models, and these parts are produced in millions, which makes them much less expensive.

Volvo produces just about half a million cars of all the models, therefore, even with the sharing, all the components are more expensive by default.

But, I enjoy that unusual design very much, as it makes for a lot of extra interior space within the rather regular exterior dimensions. Just take a ride on a back seat of Volvo S80, BMW 5 and Mercedes E and you would know what I am talking about.

Also, if I would take the same 7 years 100K miles coverage with the new car, it would be around $1500 - $1700. I have paid a premium for a procrastination.

I will get an extended warranty for the XC90 right away, as soon as it hits the local dealer in a week or so.

lee_w · August 2004

Does anyone have any current buying experiences to add to this discussion?

adp3 · August 2004

and more data on extended warranties would be useful - my 90 is not in hand, yet, but I plan to buy an extended warranty.

then again, if I took the 2K and bought Google stock with it......

lev_berkovich · August 2004

Al,
Did you talk to the dealers in your area yet?

adp3 · August 2004

I have not researched it yet. My car should arrive in a week, so it's probably time to look into it.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

Mine is on the same boat. I am planning to talk to one friend of mine - the financial manager of the local Volvo dealership this weekend and will share my numbers.

Keep us posted.

adp3 · August 2004

Our boat should have landed today

bsk · August 2004

Lev & Al,

We picked up our XC90 about a week and a half ago. It came in about 5 days earlier than the FDC had estimated. All our accessories were installed or in the vehicle (except one that was out of stock - they assure me they will ship later). The dealership made a half-hearted attempt to clean it up, but it still had parts of Sweden on it.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

I surely hope so...

lev_berkovich · August 2004

Brian,
Congratulations, enjoy it.

Spill some champaign on it (you do not have to actually smash a bottle, just shake the bottle well, and spray a car) for the long and trouble less service. I am pretty superstitious about it, and always throw a good party blessing every significant purchase (maybe just because we, people from Russia, like to party and finding all the possible excuses).

adp3 · August 2004

nice idea re the champagne, Lev

you're sure it won't damage the finish? I better stick with the California sparklers versus the Russian variety (just kidding)

4mykids3 · August 2004

I am so glad that I happened upon this forum. I especially liked the bantering about the 2004 vs 2005 models! I just got a 2004 (with a handsome discount off of the sticker I might add) and I am VERY satisfied with my decision. I also like to hold on to the cars "forever". I am an avid Volvo owner and now have a 1993, 960 wagon for sale. By the way, I did get the extended warranty. It proved to be a very wise investment 10 years ago and with all of the additional computerized equiptment, I assume that it will prive to be a wise investment again.

barryct · August 2004

What did the warranty cost you? What is the length and mileage of the warranty? What are the exclusions?
Thanks,
Chris

4mykids3 · August 2004

It was a bit pricey, and I didn't try to negotiate. It was $2,388. Quite a bit of an increase from the $900 I paid for the same extended warranty in 1993, but this car has so many component parts, we were advised by an auto mechanic friend that it was worth it. In addition, I had just paid $2,000 for a repair bill on our 93 wagon, so this price seemed reasonable as one large repair bill! It is a 7 yr or 100,000 mile warranty with a $100 deductible. It does not cover things from normal wear, ie belts, battery, filters, fluids, alignment, etc. My old one did pay to replace the intake manifold gasket, replace the cooling fan switch, replace the A/C evaporator, and repair the tailgate lift. (Possibly more, but these are the items I found just now running through the receipts.) I should have had them repair the seatbelt retractions in the back seat, but I forgot to pay attention to the expiration date. Hope this helps...

adp3 · August 2004

The Tancred just sailed from Port Hueneme, which means that my 90, and Lev's, are finally in California

Let's see who gets his first!!!

Good info re the warranty. A few questions:

if you don't use it, do you get your money back? (I had this feature in a Chrysler Warranty recently, despite Dodge's protestations that no such warranty existed. After they read it, they were very surrpised. I did use the warranty, however, so I didn't get my money back.)

is it transferable to a new owner of the car?

adp3 · August 2004

OK, I am about to do something that I know you should never do: if I were to buy a fully-loaded (except for 17 inch, not 18 inch wheels) 2.5 today, would I get a better deal than what I got through overseas delivery?

and I want RED

oh, and I didn't get the side decor or the running boards/flaps/skid plate, but I got pretty much every other dang thing

lev_berkovich · August 2004

I think you could, but if you consider the off-set for the European trip, the OSD will be a better deal anyway.

See my math somewhere in the previous postings.

My net pay-backs from the Volvo on a car+trip were well over $10,000. I do not think that you can get it here.

And I would go to Europe anyway...

barryct · August 2004

Thanks for the info. Do you know who underwrites the warranty? I am wondering if I can find a similar contract online.

Thanks,
Chris

lev_berkovich · August 2004

It depends on where you live. I had no luck in California, and I am not a novice to the internet searches.

There were many companies selling extended warranty on a web, but a few were admitted in California, and they were not any better then a quote from the dealer.

lamom · August 2004

I am wondering if anyone has an idea of when the 2005 models will arrive in TX. I figure this might give me an advantage on getting a good deal on a 2004 T6. I plan on sticking with the 2004 since I often keep my cars for the long haul. I'm a patient purchaser waiting for the right deal for what I want. Since I plan on negotiating via fax I am willing to consider any dealership in TX. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best time to buy?

Thanks

adp3 · August 2004

Hi Lev: I am nt second-guessing myself. I just want to have real data. The trip was great, and I'd do it again. Of course, if I discover that I could have saved 5 grand by buying it today, instead of going......

of course, it was a great experience for my kids, and for me and the wife, so I don't have any regrets, even if I did learn that I would have saved money buying here.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

I have a feeling that I am not quite clear in my postings.

My point is, that, at least in my situation, I did save a lot than I can save here by going OSD.

The MSRP (estimated) for my car was over 44.5K and I have paid $40,600 (not to mention that I could not get exact same car domestically).

Then, my estimated cost of trip (that I will was planning to take anyway) was over $15,000 and I have spent (not to count gifts and merchandises) under under $9,000, saving $6000 right here.

The combined savings are well beyond and above of what I can negotiate locally.

Look at that from other perspective.

The best deals we have heard here on this board were about $2000 - $2500 bellow invoice.

With the OSD you start $500 bellow invoice, and you get 2 round trip tickets to Europe - $2350 in my case. So you already close to $3000 below invoice. And this does not take the savings on a car rental in Europe - which in my case (renting a large SUV for 21 day would cost me a little fortune - you can check the rates...)

And this just a financial side of it - plus the great experience you have.

So, once again, I would not think even for one second to choose OSD over the best local deal, for as long as I have a physical ability to travel.

adp3 · August 2004

all good points, Lev

I had not paid attention to the posts about pricing, as they were not relevant to me. I thought that we might be seeing better deals than $500 off invoice.

my 90 is on the truck - it could arrive today, but definitely by tomorrow

never say "definitely"

:-)

I better make up my mind re the extended warranty, and running boards/flaps/skid plate

4mykids3 · August 2004

Sorry, I've been gone a while...the warranty IS transferrable, and I do not see where it is refundable. However, I anticipate that we will use it at least to some degree...

phaworth · August 2004

I cannot take advantage of this offer but maybe you can.

2005 Volvo XC90 2.5T AWD

Premium, Climate and Versatility packages
cargo net
18" Alloy wheels
0 due at lease inception- 0 drive off
$473 per mo + tax & license
48 month lease 12k miles per year
Bad News-Expires tomorrow 8-31-04
Royal Motor Sales -San Francisco

Sounds like a great deal.

lev_berkovich · August 2004

Al,
How did you find out that your car is on a truck?

I better call my dealer tomorrow.

flash9 · August 2004

XC90 2.5T FWD
Crystal Green Metallic Exterior
Taupe Leather Interior
Premium Package
Climate Package
Versatility Package
$36,800

Great / Good / OK / Poor ???

adp3 · August 2004

Lev: I called my dealer and he checked into it. I may have my 90 tomorrow!

adp3 · September 2004

Lev: My 90 arrived and I pick it up tonight

dk-wa · September 2004

I am picking up my new XC90 at the factory in about 3 weeks I have the VIN number and was wondering if there was any way to check where in the production process it currently is?????

I know Just about like waiting for a new born!

lev_berkovich · September 2004

Lucky you,
Mine has stuck in the port, and I cannot even find the heads from the tails of when it is going to be released. VCNA does not know. I will talk to the port broker today.

adp3 · September 2004

sorry to hear that

lev_berkovich · September 2004

Customs has seized about 90 cars, mine included, and even broker does not know the reason - drugs, bombs?

larsca · September 2004

If you want to read about the new V8 engine and 6 speed tranny for the XC90, here's the first article I've found about it. (I think it's funny/tragic that the Gothenburg-Post are so behind on reporting Volvo news by the way.)

http://www.swedespeed.com/news/publish/Volvo_News/article_329.htm- - l

I've heard Road and Track has tested the car and an article, either on their web page or in their magazine, is forthcoming. Let's all keep a look out for it...

larsca · September 2004

A couple of things regarding the V8:

With the engine being so compact, does that mean it will have to come out of the engine bay for the slightest maintenance, say spark plugs or changing timing chain? Anyone with mechanical knowledge care to give their best guess to this?

Also, I wonder what the fuel consumption will be (I know it was mentioned in the article but I'm wondering about the "real world" consumption since that seems to differ a bit)?

Third of course, what will the price be?

And lastly, does this mean the T6 is going to be phased out?

christian · September 2004

I will be purchasing a 2.5 AWD in the next two months and I have been monitoring the boards for any recommendations for northern California dealers. I live in the Sacramento Valley and I am looking for #1 great service and #2 great purchase experience. Thanks in advance

Volvo XC90 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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