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Comments
Hope this helps
Alan
Good test-drive advice. And unfortunately, I think you're right....no such "perfect" vehicle for me. That's the main reason I've been searching these forums.....to get/settle for the "best of" by word of mouth.
ferris47:
Yeah, I'm replacing my Jeep Wrangler.
Speaking of JGCs though, been doing more internet homework and found that the same NV242 transfer case (Selec-Trac) is available in the Dakota as it is in the Durango and JGC. Too bad the Tundra doesn't have something similar; the full-time 4WD is very appealing. Made me think about my second reason for liking the Tundra - the engine that's supposedly akin to the Land Cruiser. If money were no object the Land Cruiser would probably be in my driveway. Of course, if that were the case, I'd probably have an extra truck for all the dirty stuff too.
I ran from the dealer to get a topper installed and took off for Florida (from upstate New York) the next day for the holidays. I took it easy and didn't use the cruise on the way down, truck ran like a swiss watch. And continues to. Drives almost as good as my Lexus. No hint of any of the vibration problems mentioned in other threads. I have the TRD package with the wider 16" tires. The tires are Goodrich and have a fairly aggressive tread pattern but still ride smooth at speed. Great in the rain too.
The engine turns a little longer before starting than I've previously experienced, but that seemed to be explained a few messages back as a design objective related to oiling. No indication of slow cranking yet, and it has been cold since I got back home the other day.
Got 14.5 - 17.5 mpg depending on conditions. 16.8 at 80mph with the air on. Radar detector on also.
It took longer to get this truck because it was not a "standard build" configuration at the time of my order in late Oct. I got the bench seat, which I find much more comfortable than the chincy armrests on the captains chairs. I do miss a power seat, though. This was one thing that made the truck difficult to find.
I have the 3 in 1 CD stereo which works OK, but the sound is much basser than I care for. That should be easily rectified if I decide it really bothers me. I prefer the single changer because I change my mind on what to listen to as I go along and don't want to mess with loading magazines.
I got this truck in white with a matching Leer cap, smooth sided and level with the top of the cab. I prefers to keep my stuff dry in the back but like to look as good as I can.
My decision came down to this truck and the F150. Prices were almost dead even for comparably equipped trucks in my area. I liked the minor size advantages of the Ford and some of the interior features, but got scared off by lots of discussion in other threads on piston slap in the 5.4 V8 I was planning to get. I was favorably swayed by my experience with a used Lexus and other Toyos as compared to a number of Big 3 examples that have died early in our driveway.
The Tundra has just over 3K on it now and I made the right decision. Thanks to most everybody who participates in these discussions as they were a big help to me in this decision.
Just thought you would want to know.
Only the reciever and wiring will come automatically on all the manuf's tow pkg's.
As for the lock, you can buy aftermarket locks for spares that are less than $25. It was your choice to buy one from Toyota.
If you pay 27,000 to 30,000 for a truck, how much can a $45 lock or a $72 hitch ball really put you out. If it were me, I would have just got it all at once and financed it all in. It's much easier for me to make a monthly payment than to come up with lumps of cash for things later. That is why I drive a new truck every 2-3 years rather than an old one that possibly needs big repair bills.
The spare tire lock is a "key" type lock for the winch, instead of a simple cable lock which is easily snipped with a pair of bolt cutters. I know, I know, it was my choice to buy it - just feeling slightly gouged.
Different trailer tongues have different heights
and ball sizes so one hitch will not fit all. For instance my boat trailer takes a 1" drop hitch and my Jet ski trailer takes a 4" drop hitch to keep the trailers level. Can't give you any reason for the spare tire lock issue.
pcheng,
I'm with you on the tranny oil cooler.
BTW, I have some interesting info on caps for the Tundra. See topic 1372. I have now looked at every current canopy made for the Tundra. So if you got questions, I got answers!
A drop hitch may or may not come with the hitch depending on the brand but $72 is WAY too much. That part should not cost more than $30.
My Tundra does extremely well with a 3300 pound boat. The "fly by wire" throttle comes in very handy in this application.
You pay over $2000 more for when you go from a 2 wheel drive with open differential to a 4x4 with an open differential. The way I figure it that gives you 100% more drive wheels (from 1 to 2)
Adding the locker gives you 50% more drive wheels (from 2 to 3)
I do however agree that for most drivers if you are stuck in a 4x4 (open diff) having the locker will not make that much difference. But in my experience the locker gives you better drivability on wet or snow/ice covered roads. For me the added traction is worth the small price.
I would think Toyota will add the locker to the Tundra in the next model year and maybe also update the part time 4x4 system to something closer to GM's autotrac.
An open differential means only one wheel has power at a time, and the sad part is the wheel with the least amount of traction gets the power. So if you have one wheel on ice or in the mud and even if the other rear wheel is on dry ground - the wheel in the mud gets all the power. Also means when the street is wet and you take off from a stop sign if you give it too much gas only one of your rear wheels will spin. With the locker both wheels spin. I my opinion the locker is worth the money (although many people disagree)Pickups are light in the back and even with the locker it is easy to spin the rear tires when the road is wet. I have owned trucks with & without locker and would never order one without it.
Just my $.02 worth.
Thanks again..
Thanks,
tylerz1
I have seen other people post this type of problem and also that you can not go over 15mph - but I do not understand if this was just a Toyota thing or if all trucks with locker had this problem.
The hitches I saw on SR5's on the lot looked to be CAT III (but what do I know - just comparing them to ones I saw on the rack at a local aftermarket hitch installer.
We want to tow a horse trailer that can go 7,000 lbs (though usually will be more like 5500).
Also, anyone one have experience towing heavy loads? Our current truck is an '85 F-250 heavy duty w/ 6.9 diesel. I'm concerned more about handling and stability rather than power.
Thanks.
I owned a '95 C-1500 and a '93 S-10. Never had a single problem. They were ok, but nothing too impressive. But I've heard a LOT about people who have had problems. The Silverado seems like a fine design, but they definitely do seem to have a lot of reliability problems, and the superior rear-seat room is fine, if you don't mind the extra size of the wheelbase(143" vs 128" I think) vs. the Tundra. (I can barely back my tundra and trailer in at my garage as it is, due to space constrictions)
I currently have 5,000 miles on a tundra with zero problems. I love it, it's much more refined and car-like than my '95chevy, '98 ford, or '97 dodge trucks, and I use it to tow a trailer daily for work. It's plenty "tough" for my use. I work out of it, and the added refinement means less fatigue during the 3 hours or so I'm in it every day. That means money in my pocket in the long run.
If you buy a Chevy out of brand pride/loyalty rather than reputation for reliablity and dealer integrity, then Chevy will just keep on ignoring the problems. I was dissuaded from the Silverado because of the numerous posts I've read here and elsewhere about their unresolved problems. When I hear they're "fixed", I will add them to the vehicles I consider as a replacement.
I currently own a Ford F150 4x2 and I am looking to replace it. I narrowed my search to another F150 and the Tundra. I just drove an F150 (XLT Supercab 4x4 with the 7700 payload package and 3.73 limited slip axle among other things) and a Tundra (SR5 Access cab 4x4 with the V8. IMHO it is hard to even make a comparison. The Tundra is not able to compete with the likes of Ford, or Chevy and Dodge for that matter. At least not yet and if they don't make this thing bigger, never. Sure it has a nice build quality and the engine is a gem, but I want a full size TRUCK not a 4x4 luxury sedan! The Tundra I drove had captains chairs and while in the cockpit I felt cramped. The truck is so narrow that the arms of the captains chairs were attempting to ride up under my arm pits so I had to fold them back, they are completely useless. The bench seat may have been more comfortable but it is still too small. By the way, I am six feet tall with my shoes on. I don't know why they call this thing a full size truck. Marketing probably. Another thing is that the bed is considerably shallower than competing models. I have a large dog and I would be afraid of him falling out of the back! The truck handled well and had a smooth ride but this is not something that is real important to me in a truck in fact I prefer the stiff bouncy ride of the F150. Another point that you are all aware of is that there is no limited slip at this time and the configuration list is very short.
We obviously purchase vehicles according to how they suite our needs and the Tundra does not suite my needs. As I said, this truck should not even be compared to full sized trucks. It is a nice alternative for someone who would like to move up from a Tacoma, Ranger or Nissan (whatever it's called now) or making a latteral move from a Dodge Dakota but I don't see a lot of full sized truck owners moving from there American models any time soon. Just my opinion.
My money is going down on that Black XLT with the step bars and 7 lug chrome rims (for about the same money as the Tundra "mid sized" truck). See ya...
Also, does anyone have have an opinion about ABS. My Tundra does not have them. Did I make a mistake not getting them? Let me know...
You would only use a locker driving very slowly in very slippery condition in a straight line (i.e. mud, rock climbing, in the ditch, or getting out of really heavy snow).
The way the Limited slip works is a series of clutch plates in the rear end pumpkin. There's a bunch of springs and plates in there, and as one wheel turns more than the other wheel it engages a gear that applies pressure to the clutch plates, as one wheel slips more, the pressure on the plates increases until both axles are locked.
I've considered the Limited Slip in my Tundra and decided against it (for me). At first I really wanted it, but now that I think about it, the added expense, and noise, weight, and extra maintenance (though slight) isn't worth the 3 or 4 times a year that I would use the LSD. If I need extra traction, I would engage 4Hi. LSD doesn't help you in the rain because the only time it would engage is when pulling away from a stop. If your tire starts spinning in mid corner, you don't want LSD to engage, your rear end will come around on you very quickly.
You can try this in a BIG parking lot in the rain. Drive in a big arc at about 25 in a low gear (i.e. 2nd). Then punch it at mid corner, as soon as your LSD engages, your back end will whip around. With open differentials, your inner wheel will spin, and the back end will slowly come around as the inner tire out drives the outer rear tire.
The other issue that comes up every once in a while is size. I've parked my 4x4 AccessCab next to many a Silverado and F150. Here are a few things I've noticed. A Tundra is shorter. The 4x4 Tundra is about 1" taller than a 2x4 Tundra, so they are essentially the same height. If you park a Tundra by say a 2x4 Silverado or F150 you can really see that they are almost the same size. Compare the hood, cab, and bed, side by side and you can see that the Tundra size specs don't lie. It really is that big. And don't confuse wheel base to truck length. The Tundra is practically the same length as the Silverado or F150, but its rear wheels are shifted forward compared to the Old3. This is what gives the Tundra it's great in city maneuverability. The rear wheels almost exactly follow behind the front. This means you don't have to swing wide to keep from hitting curbs when making turns and parallel parking is much easier. Compare a Tundra with a 4x4 Silverado or 4x4 F-150 and the Tundra looks smaller. The body of the Silverado or F150 are the same as on the 2x4 version, but because their 4x4 versions are about 6"(?) higher they seem to loom over the Tundra. It's a perspective trick. I have noticed that over the years the Toyota 4x4's have gotten shorter, while the Old3 have gotten taller. While this is not my preference, if Toyota's goal is to expand the truck market to first time truck buyers, this would be a good selling point. One reason I propose for this is that Toyota's transfer case technology has radically advanced, allowing them to lower their trucks. My 92 Pickup's transmission and transfer case where big and bulky compared to my Tundra's pancake shaped one. I also I think the Old3 have been having a truck height cold war. After all, if you want to make your truck look bigger cheaply, just raise it a few inches higher than your competitors. I plan to raise my Tundra as soon as the after market offers lift kits.
As far as interior room, I guess it's what you are used too. I think all the truck makers are a little behind in realizing we all want full-blown crew cabs now. I do know that the Tundra has about as much rear seat room as most of the 4-door cars I see on the road today. Many of the other complaints about the Tundra's interior are just caused by it being different from what you used to. I felt this myself. I had gotten used to driving my 4-Runner a certain way, I would drive with my left elbow on the window ledge holding the steering wheel and rested my right hand on the shifter. When I got my Tundra, I couldn't do this anymore. I had to find a new position, left arm resting on the armrest and right elbow on the capt. chair armrest holding the wheel. After a day or two it felt natural and comfortable. I think a lot of what we're seeing is that a lot of people are looking at a truck or a Toyota for the first time. They've driven the same basic interior configuration for a long time, the Tundra's is different. I think the Tundra has had remarkably few complaints considering the number of people who are trying it out that have never looked inside a truck before. Remember the guy a few weeks ago who thought the Tach/Odo didn't looks as good as a Maxima's or Lexus!
Sorry for the long post, but every once in a while I have to get this out. This conference is important to me and I appreciate everyone's contributions. I think this does a lot of good for prospective, new, and current Tundra owners.
First, I agree, the Tundra is a very nice truck. However, I only shop at "big 'n tall" stores so space IS a daily need (as mentioned above) for me. Sorry, No matter what the numbers say, the Tundra is still cramped. My Ford is not.
Second, yes, the Tundra drives very well for a truck. However, ALL CURRENT FULL SIZE TRUCKS DRIVE WELL FOR TRUCKS. Technology has improved, and not just at Toyota. Auto makers have found out how to carry a large amount of payload and still be forgiving to the driver. I have driven a Tundra, and I don't think it is remarkably better driving than my F-150. It may be a bit better, but I don't feel that the difference is great enough to say the Tundra is hands-down the better driver. Again, my opinion.
Third. I don't care if the Tundra offers LSD or not. I haven't ever had it in a truck, and I can't think of when I needed it. If you get stuck in 4wd, LSD ain't gonna help (at least not the differential kind). If you are at a stoplight and you loose traction on wet pavement, take your foot off the gas. I can't think of a time where LSD would actually be a necessity. A locker could be of advantage, but how large a percentage will that be used vs. the number of Tacomas that have them. Sorry, I have offroaded quite a bit in my life and never needed it. I can't imagine the daily driver / weekend warrior needs it too often. People who have them will probably will use them incorrectly and shatter their driveline. I know when I lived in LA, at the slightest hint of moisture falling from the sky (I hesitate to use the term rain. I always said LA downpour = Midwest mist) people would just be itchin' to throw their trucks in 4wd. The thought was that if it wasn't used it'll go to waste. Never mind how bad it was for the truck.
Fourth. I think the Tundra will appeal to the average car driver looking to upgrade to something with bigger trunk. Trucks getting better gas mileage and cheaper gas and less concern for the environment set the stage for this. Speaking only about ex-car drivers, I think a high customer satisfaction may be caused in part by these car drivers who are pleasantly surprised about how well the Tundra drives compared with HOW THESE FIRST TIME TRUCK BUYERS WERE EXPECTING IT TO DRIVE, NOT COMPARED TO OTHER CURRENT MODEL TRUCKS. Combine this with Tundras shorter wheel base, and these drivers may be wondering why they didn't do this a long time ago. Well, its a good thing they didn't do this a long time ago. Not that long ago trucks were awful "truck-like." I do wonder how many of those first time truck buyers will stand by their trucks after the new car scent wears off and they realize how much they miss their Camrys. I also think the same thing about ALL new truck drivers, but the Tundra seems to have more first-timers than long-timers (forgive me, those of you who are out there) compared to the people that buy new Big 3 Trucks. I think that Toyota is one of a few companies that should be thanked for this change. I don't think the Big 3 knew there was a problem until they looked at Toyota's sales figures. But, on the other hand, I do hope that Trucks do not become any more civilized... A lot of people will be running to the super-duty models if the light duty trucks become too urban. I don't drive a truck for the trunk.
Let me finish by saying thank you, both for reading this, and for the wealth of info you have provided me (and the entertainment). This is not intended to be a Tundra slam, just an extension to Mike's thoughts from an "Anti-Toyota Fanatic." I am looking to add a truck to my family, only time will tell what she likes.
By the way, I know what LOL means to me, but it doesn't seem to fit the comments you guys are always making... what are you using it to stand for?
As far as the Tundra handling, you're right they all handle better than they used to, but the Tundra had something different. Like the difference between a Cadillac and a BMW. It may be subtle, but there's a difference. It's all in what you want. I do plan on putting an anti-sway bar on my Tundra. Being so heavy I can't turn the curves like I used too.
I agree with you whole heartedly on the LSD. Much a do about nothing. The following is defiantly in my humble opinion, but I think GM in particular tries to sell their trucks by the options it has rather that the real meat of the thing, the truck. A GM product manger's motto might be "We don't want to spend more on a new truck design, just add options they never know!" Seems short sighted to me, we'll see. The new Silverado I test drove seemed like old tech with lots of gadgets. The rear seat backrest was a winner though, but not enough to make me get one. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying all that. I do wish Toyota would offer more options, but if I had to choose, and it appears we do, between a solid truck and options, I choose the truck.
I agree with you too on Truck not becoming too nice to get dirty. I defiantly see the truck status symbol thing starting to happen. You know, "SUV's are so passe everyone has one!" I know lots of Atlanta suburbanites with a full size truck, just because they have disposable income and they go to Home Depot every once in a while. I suppose this segment is starting to influence marketing research. I can't think of anything off the top of my head to make a truck more "civilized" than we have now, but I'm sure they will think of something. I do know that full size truck's up until now have been made for work. I have wanted, and it seems I'm not alone, a truck with a more comfortable ride and interior. But there does come a point where making it more comfortable takes away from the usability of the truck. I'm mean can you imagine taking a 2000 4-Runner out to haul hay or muck around on the farm? The interior would degrade so fast it would be worthless in no time. To me this is a major problem for truck manufactures to solve. Make it more comfortable, but keep it durable at the same time. Since they haven't solved the problem yet, they may take the easy way out and produce an upscale SUV with a bed truck line, and a no frills, less comfortable super duty truck line. I hope this doesn't happen, or if it does I hope Toyota comes out with a "Super Duty" truck line. They could bring back the "Titan" name for it. But I want both comfort and interior and exterior durability in one truck! It just takes more creativity on their part. I would pay even more for one of these perfect future trucks. Yeah, creativity that's what we need! The perfect truck has not been invented yet. Maybe we need to start a serious "future truck " conference to bounce around ideas. Then if we could only get any of the manufactures to listen...
I apologize for all the space I've taken up today. Every once in a while I go through these talkative phases and then I'll be quite for a while.
Mikemiller - agree with your poor mans 4x4 (almost) I want one on my 4x4. That at least makes it a 3x4.
Why would you not want any extra drive wheel for only $200. Can you live without it - yes, would I base my decision on what truck to buy based on the rear differential - no.
I have seen the comment posted before that Toyota did not put a locker on the Tundra because they can't build one that will last over 100K miles. I think the Landcruiser has one so that does not add up to me. Any Landcruiser owners want to comment?
After your Land Cruiser revelation I went to the Toyota website and see that the LD is available on the LC with an "Active TRAC electronic full-time 4WD system"! Wow, there's something to think about! All I can say is that I have no idea, except it must not be rated for the heavy towing the Tundra is required to do?
On my perfect truck ideas theme I want a fuel-cell powered electric vehicle with an electric motor on each wheel for true 4x4 traction and let a computer handle the turning slippage complexities instead of a differential. Of course I would also want adjustable vehicle height(AVH) (since there aren't drive shafts anymore, why not?) say from a computer maintained 1" ground clearance for efficient high speed highway travel up to 2 to 3 feet clearance for some serious Off Roading! The adjustable height could also be used to shift the weight forward when carrying a really heavy load. What do you think?
The ride height is already available on the range rover (I think)