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Comments
Thank you for your insightful comments, you have raised some novel points worth pursuing, in particular on possible tax credits as "Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle” -- I'll check whether this may apply in Canada, as well.
I have given some thought to two of your observations and can provide the following answers.
On your small quibble #2, I'm happy to tell you that the mirror is attached via a short support arm that has two joints, one at each end, and the vertical position of the mirror is adjustable over a fair range. You just need to bend the arm down at the joint closest to the windshied, and then raise the mirror again at its closest joint. I just happened to discover this feature yesterday, after owning my car for almost two months! In my case I moved the mirror up; I thought it was too low and interfered with my forward visibility.
On your point #4, further to your observation, I've come to the conclusion that the famous door and dash trim panels will always appear perfectly aligned IFF you look at them from anywhere in a horizontal plane, about navel-height... Unfortunately, since there is a discontinuity in the rates at which the two pieces curve where they meet, and there is also a gap, they will seem misaligned when seen from any higher vantage, such as a normal sitting position. But we know that they are correctly aligned; it's just a problem of visual perspective... In older Toyotas these trim pieces were made to curve so that their vertical position and also their rate of bending were well matched, which is more acceptable to the eye from most angles.
Best regards from just over the border (and at the opposite side of the Continent),
havalongavalon
Waterduck...Excellent review. I hope there is a tax accountant out there that can answer your question if it qualifies for a federal tax credit. My brother lives in Middlebury. Do you plan on getting 4 snow tire next winter for all the snow you get?
For any of you that have had a problem with the center seam on the leather seats bothering you...did the dealer fix the problem??
I am still 2 - 3 weeks away from getting my Limited (ordered 2/25/05).
Just curious.
MikeS.
William: A V rating is a tire industry standard, not a Toyota standard. V rated tires are rated 149 mph. H rated tires are rated 130 mph.
"I suspect Toyota's response was just a carefully worded factual statement--and for any number of reasons the company would not confirm or deny any speed limit."
William: I agree. Toyota knows their bad boy will do a buck fifty, but doesn't want to put it in writing. They use V rated tires because H rated tires (130 mph) won't cut the mustard.
Mack, have you got any feedback from your mechanic about governed speed? Or can't you say anything either? If so, please call me and my friends at 1 (800) WEWANNAGOFAST.
Groza
HavalongAvalon, thanks for the pointer on the mirror. I should have figured that out!! LOL!
Sorry to hear the stories about how long it is taking some to get their cars - it took us 6 days from deciding and ordering and delivery/in our hands. Luck of the draw I guess. Nice think was that the sales person called me up yesterday to check and see if I'd sold my old car (the Volvo) and then told me how to get a partial refund on the state sales tax based on my private sale!
Would an aftermarket remote start void the warranty?
Thx
Dean
My question for those who have taken delivery in Texas, what is the best price available for a $0 deductible 7yr-100K warranty?
Greg :confuse:
Havent seen your posts for a while. Am wondering what finally happened and if you are able to get a car!
It is the same situation in Florida..........Southeast Toyota does not sell it buy I can still buy it from a dealer out of state that does
I was seriously considering doing so but one wise person on this forum pointed out to me that you can buy it anytime before your warranty is up..........
If I get one it will only be the warramty from Toyota directly but there is no advantage that i can tell to buy it at time of or soon after purchase from Greenfield as opposed to when the car is almost 3 years old
The prices go up only slightly if at all , the money can sit in my account and heaven forbid the car gets totalled or I have to sell it before the extended warranty takes place I protect myself from losing the money I paid for the extended warranty.........
My real concern is that Greenfield is selling the Toyota Financial Extended Warranty. Since Gulf States Toyota is a separate financial entity from Toyota Motor Corporation, USA, will Greenfield be able to sell me the Toyota Extended Warranty? Of course, I will contact them to get their answer. I fear that territorial exclusivity agreements between Toyota USA and Gulf States Toyota may apply. I plan to use Greenfield's price as a negotiation tool if I get it. I would prefer to do all of my business with the local Toyota dealer for relationship reasons, but only if the cost case works.
Greg
Toyotas had leather, and the seats were beautiful, but this perforated leather is thin enough to read a newspaper through, and there are too many places with unnecessary folds which will eventually settle into a permanent crease or two, and become even more unsightly, perhaps even cracking over time. That may not seem to be a problem to those who get a new car every two or three years, but it is a potential
problem for guys like me. I thought that the non-perforated leather on the XLS (since I see absolutely no need for my tush to be either heated or air-conditioned) would do the job just fine, but after looking over about six models at Miller Toyota in Manassas yesterday, they ALL also have unnecessary, vertical folds at about belly-button height, which suggests either insufficient padding , poor design, or sloppy workmanship---take your choice. I am sold on leather for its ease of entry-exit, particularly for older or slightly infirm people, and also for its practicality in resisting spills, stains, etc... I hope Toyota get enough complaints about this to remedy the situation in future months. I would hate to think Toyota's joined the parade of bean-counters who look only at the bottom line and deliberately chose to short-change people who would spend in excess of $30,000 for a car with inferior materials. I'll bet Maxima, Acura other serious competitors have vastly superior leather in their seats! Shame on you, Toyota! You've enticed us, and then short-changed us! And, while I'm venting my spleen, please, please, please, have a serious meeting about the absolutely LAME, UNIMAGINATIVE COLORS offered for such a quality automobile!
I think the federal tax credit would be great!!!
Have a great weekend,
RONN
Have a great day!
RONN
For all you speed demons... I kept my 85 Cressida between 95 and 105 for one hour straight. I did 100 miles for that hour and felt completely safe.
I briefly drove a Phantom Grey Limited w/all options, and must say I was VERY impressed with smooth/quite ride & roominess in rear seat. Didn't like the fact that remote start didn't allow me to walk up to car and drive away (w/secure fob in pocket). Shuts off the second the door is opened. Don't want unnecessary wear & tear on my future baby by stopping & starting it back-to-back on a daily basis.
In any case, I have significant non-owner experience (if that makes any sense) driving a 2004 Lexus RX 330, and have been really impressed. Doing all research, I've found numerous positive reviews and a tremendous history of holding high percentage of value. Doing same value comparisons, I just don't see as much value holding (overall) on the Avalons. Now, granted, the past Avalons haven't been as technologically advanced - but we're talking both Lexus (name), SUV (type), & AWD (convenience) vs. Toyota, Sedan, & FWD. I just don't know how a $36,000 (or so before taxes & such) Avalon will fair 5 years down road... Maybe worth $12-15K??? All in all, my wife wants Avalon, I love Avalon's technology & quality (all the way down to my favorite MXV4 tires), and the price is $5K cheaper than similarly equipped AWD Lexus. But, I don't want to be kicking myself a year from now knowing that I was 5K away from an SUV w/Lexus badge.
By chance, are there any other forum members that are considering these two vehicles - or better yet, have made their decision &/or purchase? Are any of you waiting till the 06 Avalon comes out so teething pains (however minimal they are) can be worked out.
I think you are getting hung up on crunching numbers too much.
Do you need AWD? Do you and your wife just want to be seated higher up and have the Lexus badge?
I don't see much of a comparison on the two vehicles. If you need/want a full size car then the Avalon is a great choice. If you want a mid sized Luxury SUV then the 330 is a great choice.
You don't need to justify your purchases to anyone...except yourself. ;-)
There's no wrong choice as they are both good options.
My friend's 330 has just over 30k miles on it and not one single problem. The 05 Avalon is new this year as you pointed out.
The 330 retains it's value well and was in Consumer Reports as a Best Pick. If you have a good deal lined up and want it now...get it.
When the 06 Avalon comes out you can sell it if you want to get the Avalon.
Just a few random thoughts...
Dean
PS- Just read your post again. I thought you were going to get a used 330. You are stating you can get a loaded RX 330 for $40k out the door? Hmm. I guess so. Just did Edmunds TMV and with options I picked invoice came to $39,405.
You can take a look at residuals on the Avalon and have a fair idea of it's value.
Thanks again for the useful leads, johni. Your earlier posts convinced me to buy the same Awell system from this internet supplier. Total cost: US$ 99.95 plus Can $58.47 for shipping, taxes and broker fees, or about Can $185.00 The Toyota dealer would have charged me Can$ 699 + tax = Can$ 800 to install a (nearly identical) Sienna parking sensor system.
Havalongavalon
I hate to stand corrected, so I'll just lean back here and take it! I was expecting auto tires are rated the way aircraft tires are--but as I said, I knew up front I'd be better off not contradicting you, Groza. Thanks for the correction.
But the big news is that today I took delivery of my indigo ink pearl Limited. Wow! It is the first Limited I've seen, since my dealer can't meet the demand as it is (I ordered it on February 28th and it was expected the middle of May). I am up to 32 miles now (it had 6 when I got it). The navigation system is super accurate and even chose my favorite route of many options in one case. And that laser cruise control is SUPER. It's the main reason I leaned toward the Limited, but all the other features....Oh, the cool seats when on blower turned out to be much more essential than I realized. How did I live without it?
I went out in the garage tonight to see the puddle lights. They're neat alright, but I didn't realize I have an alarm system. When I reached in through the open driver's window to unlock the door manually all hell broke loose. I probably woke up the neighbors==it was flashing and beeping while I dashed for the kitchen to get my little key fob, then ran back and punched buttons until it stopped. Yikes!
I also didn't think I needed that adjustable under-knee support, but now I do! I find it definitely helps me make the seat extra comfortable. I also love the dimming mirrors and the turning signals in the side mirrors--very neat. The automatic headlights work fine, but I haven't tried the automatic windshield wipers yet. (I nearly chased a thunderstorm for that purpose today, but I was too busy reading the manuals.)
XM radio is activated now, but I've not tried it yet. I'm not fond of the chintzy dealer antenna installation, since the wire will depress the trunk sealing, but lack of symmetry doesn't bother me at all. On their website XM says if the installer put it inside the car you should make them move it outside at no charge--they say it -will- experience reception drop-outs. I know some on this formum claim perfect reception even with it inside.
BTW, that graphite and dark wood interior is perfect with the indigo ink.
And speaking of tires, I was delighted to find the Limited came with Michelin XM4s, my favorite tires. I had just put a set on my '02 Avalon, which I am giving to my very deserving son. Apparently they put Firestones on all other Avalons...but don't quote me on that.
Bill
You're absolutely correct - we (especially me) love being higher off the road - just like the feel of it - and would have use for the rear fold-down cargo area... While I have an 02 Maxima, my wife has an 04 Sienna - we're both in love with the Sienna! So while that car stays, the Maxima goes (soon). Since we have a new addition (10 1/2 months now) to the family, van is a must - but we'd prefer not to drive it 100% of the time. We'd split it more evenly with the Lexus, but probably more of a 25-75 split for the Avalon.
The 04 Lexus RX330 I've drove extensively is my parents... We live nearly two thousand miles away from them, so every time we visit (normally every major holiday and sometimes for 2-3 weeks at a time), we're allocated the Lexus to drive :-)
We're only considering brand new (preferably ordered w/out even test drive miles)... That's how we received both current vehicles - and we'd strongly prefer continuing this way. I've verbally negotiated about $500 over invoice on the Lexus... At present, invoice is looking like nearly $39,700 (Performance Plus Pkg, Navigation, 18", 6-disc, Rain Sensing Wipers + Heated Seats, ...). So $500 over is just over $40k... The Blizzard Pearl Avalon Limited w/all options + spoiler, but excluding remote start & XM, is @ $33,700. Problem is I'm having a rather difficult time getting a better price than $1,500 over invoice - as apose to the easy $500 over invoice for the Lexus. After math, this comes to a $5K difference on the nose! BUT, if we could somehow negotiate an Avalon price @ $1,000 over invoice, and combine this with tax/title/license differences, we're actually talking about a $6,000 difference between the two! Ouch, now, you're cutt'n a little deep into pockets.
We'd only consider the AWD Lexus - value in, value out... The future used value retains most of the AWD vs. FWD cost difference - so pretty much a no brainer for us in this regard.
Ride quality & up-front $$$ savings differences may pay off though... The 04 Lexus I've drove has 17" rims (apparently popular in mid-west, but very rare out here - most are 18"). I know we'd get the 18" - so a bit worse ride Quality I'm sure. Hmm... Decisions, decisions...
Regarding your buy & sell 1 year later option - ouch... California (to my knowledge) doesn't take advantage of trade-in tax savings like other states... Hence, the $3,500 tax cost on the 1st vehicle would be a complete waste - with another $3,500 to pay for the 2nd vehicle - no special tax-on-difference breaks out here! This would be a killer in taxes alone - let alone the amount of $$$ car drops the second it's drove off lot! Nope - once we get this new baby, we're keeping it for a minimum of 3 yrs - with 5 years being target.
To be honest, Lexus badge appears to be a little worth it - regarding future value... I'm not hung up on Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus brands too much, but love seeing their apparent used-car worth & respect years after birth
I appreciate the comments.
I don't understand why the car shuts off when you unlock the doors but it doesn't bother me too much.
2005 Toyota Avalon Touring Edition
Bob: To foil thieves, children and thieving children.
Groza
Bob
Don't get me wrong I AM going to make my OWN decision - and will conduct my dd accordingly. But in this course of action, I at least attempt to gather some thoughts from others - and know that in this price category, there has to be some folks who considered midsized SUV vs. large sedan - especially in this high gas-price age.
By the time I purchase my vehicle, I'll feel extremely comfortable with my choice - knowing that I went through hoops & bounds to research & ping similar thoughts of others.
Thanks for comments.
I was wasn't a happy camper as I thought the call was to tell me the car was in. I am told Toyota sent the three XLS cars instead, They had no control over these cars sent. I was told Toyota is building Limiteds now, loaded.
I am sure there a number of dealers reading these imputs. Can anyone give a better explaination for this long time car delivery? I am not sure what to think happened, this deal has a smell to it.
Typical car salesman story. I was told there is a Limited to be delivered in late May, but it is loaded. I did not want the nav or cruse control, but to get a car that I almost wanted I had no choice,I got deal on these extras. They added on the dealer invoice cost to the origional agreement of sale.
I have had about 20 company cars and I never heard of these reasons, excuses, or whatever. I sure hope the dealer did not sell my car to someone else because they would pay a better price or sticker price.
Any comments? Ange1
I have a three year old and a 1 1/2 month old new addition, and they are precisely why I chose the Avalon over a Highlander (Lexus minus badge and trim/options), or a Minivan (Oddesy or Sienna - spelling?). The Avalon handles, brakes and accelerates better than any RX, Highlander, Sienna etc., which makes it better at avoiding an accident than the others, and as such makes the Avalon a safer vehicle for parents choosing between a car and an SUV/Minivan - unless of course, you live in an area where you routinely drive in a lot of snow and need the AWD. Besides, the Avalon is a lot of fun when you lean on the gas pedal, and gets better mileage - make sure you drive 'em all before you decide. All IMHO of course, except for the part about the handling, braking, accelerating, accident avoidance, fuel economy.
The money is another thing to consider. Insurance for the Avalon is probably cheaper than for the RX330 (call your insurance broker/agent before deciding). You talk about a $5,000 price difference with the Avalon at $1,500 over invoice. Two weeks ago (in MD), I bought at $657 over for an XLS w/VSC, etc, so getting under is $1,000 is emminently doable. I'm nobody special and anyone can get such a discount, or less if you do your homework, approach a sales manager who just got a delivery of Avalons, and are prepared to buy "today" right now (not next week) out of dealer stock. And yes, my $657 over invoice deal was valid for Limiteds as well. If you're willing to wait another month or so, it seems supplies are improving and dealers are more willing to deal, so less work will be needed to get an Avalon for less than $1,000 over invoice.
But I digress. If you're willing to get the Avalon and put that $5000 (or $6000) into your 401K, IRA, or a CD, AND remember the many hundreds $$$ saved in gas and insurance over 3-5 yrs, your choice becomes a little more difficult .
I'm not an accountant, but you'd probably be way ahead of the game, financially, "safety-wise", and "fun-wise", if you go with the Avalon. Also, the money you save may also serve as a substantial down payment on the next SUV/minivan you buy when the Sienna is ready to be sold/traded in, or you could do that next vehicle purchase that much sooner. Hope I've helped.
Regards,
Deanie
Does your Parent's 330 have the sport suspension? I've never driven one without it, but I really noted how the ride was much more harsh than I felt a luxury SUV should be.
Be sure to test drive with the sport suspension before you get it.
If you can afford the payments and feel it's worth it, then go for it. There's no way it's a bad decision especially if this is a vehicle you'll keep for over 3 years.
Don't forget to factor in the extra taxes and whether there is a difference in insurance...if you are crunching the numbers.
Have you considered a 3yr lease on the 330? Not sure about CA, but you may be able to save a good bit on taxes and can use that down payment for other things if you just had a baby.
Did you consider the Highlander at all, as that is a much better comparison vehicle than the Avalon IMO. You can get a fully loaded Limited with nearly all options checked off for $34k invoice.
What would be some reasons you'd pick the Avalon over the 330 or Highlander? I mean, if you want to sit higher up and have the utility of the cargo space...that's the way you'd be going.
Rather than have someone report their findings from a remote stretch of Oklahoma interstate, perhaps we can do a little math and reasonably calculate this magic number. We might not get it exact, but the test results will not include "deer collision damage estimate" and "police radio somewhat faster than Touring edition."
Another advantage is that we can all participate together. Ready? The Edmunds.com virtual straightaway is ours. Buckle up, lock the doors and "Gentlemen (ladies), start your....... research."
We need the following:
1. Standard tire size
2. Final drive ratio
3. Transmission gear ratios, gear IV and V both
4. Max torque output @ rpm
5. Max hp output @ rpm
6. Vehicle weight, loaded
7. Value of a slice of common "Pi"
Eager drivers: Please do not get ahead.
Advanced drivers: Which one of the above is meaningless in the task?
To stay on topic and within the rules of Edmunds.com, use ONLY the available figures for the 2005 Avalon. This is an open forum and all relevant ideas, comments and corrections are always welcome. Let's ride......