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So with the Prius, accelerating hard and cruising at 65mph won't acheieve top mileage.
Also, I've always skimmed C&D's (car & driver) actual versus EPA ratings...those guys never get EPA mileage. They dog those cars out everytime.
But with all due respect, dudley, your instance doesn't apply to everyone. How many cars have you driven? How do you drive? What kind of fuel do you use? What PSI are your tires? What kind of climate do you live in? What type of oil do you use? how often do you maintain your car?
As you can see, there are many, many variables to account for in this whole EPA game.
FWIW, DC area uses oxygenated fuel during certain months. We also might run the A/C during those times too. Oxygenated fuel has always yielded much lower MPG in my cars. With the compressor running and oxygenated fuel, I'd be lucky to get 21mpg out of my Audi A4 1.8T. That's highway/city combined (EPA would suggest 25 mpg in this case)
Also keep in mind that the EPA test is not with cruise control. It involves slowing and speeding up and only averages 48 mph.
My Integra is only 28 EPA highway, but can get 40 mpg going 60, and even going 85 will still get 31 or 32. Also well over EPA for Taurus (by the smallest amount - auto trannies are favored by the test), Corolla, Passat, Oasis, Sentra (up to 48 mpg), Scirocco (up to 45 mpg), G-20, and more. All were manuals except the Taurus and Oasis.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
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kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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I remember reading somewhere that they had the tracks adjusted aft so that the seat would better suit taller drivers. Not sure if was an '04, but in theory it could work. It would probably be expensive and it may compromise some of the electrical connections. I suppose during your test drive you didn't notice that you were uncomfortable.
Anyone else have any solutions/ideas?
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
fastdriver
These may seem like small things to many of you. However, how many of you have made a couple of dozen coast-to-coast driving trips? Lost efficiency means lost sleep and a more dangerous next day on the road.
I am trying to get enough information to make my cross-country drives more efficient in my 2004 Prius, which I really like. Apparently, the 3-gallon reserve (when pump icon comes on) is reasonably reliable according to many posters.
If I rely on this and it is inaccurate at the wrong time, do I risk expensive service?
Several years ago I was driving from SF to Atlanta and was somewhere between Flagstaff and Albequerque. It was in the middle of July and I had my mother and my two dogs in the car. A tanker truck jackknifed a few miles ahead and we were forced to sit, parked on the freeway, with no way of getting off or turning around, for 4 hours. In the middle of the desert, in the middle of the summer, in the middle of the day with 100+ degree temps it was not an option NOT to run the car for at least 15 minutes every 1/2 hour. I would have been SOL if I had been intent on letting my fuel get as low as possible before refueling.
Food for thought.
It stated that Toyota and Honda are facing a number of angry buyers who have found the cars' fuel efficiency falls short of advertised claims.
The article also states that the disclaimer "actual mileage may vary" has never been truer than with these vehicles.
What many buyers do not understand is the method that EPA uses to determine city/highway fuel economy. That it is largely a function of how the driver operates the vehicle and the driving conditions that determine what the fuel consumption per mile (gas mileage) will be.
Those of us who own hybrid vehicles have come to realize that there can be quite a variation in fuel economy depending on how the car is driven and the driving conditions.
I hope the EPA changes their (outdated?) testing procedures and that the automobile manufacturers advertise more realistic fuel economy numbers.
My "indicated" fuel economy has been 44-46 mpg for a 44 mile round-trip from my home to where I work. Two-thirds on interstate and one-third on city streets. I recently drove from Tucson to El Paso on Interstate 10 and got 51 mpg for the highway part of the trip. I10 is relatively flat and there was no wind blowing.
I am satisfied with the fuel economy, but I also bought the car for other reasons. All of which have have been discussed here, so I will not go into them again.
Also...the size of the vehicle is perfect for my family's needs. My wife does not require a Ford Explorer or Hummer to go back and forth to the mall.
On a recent tank I've averaged a measly 38 mpg. I say measly tongue-in-cheek compared to my previous vehicle, a 1984 Corvette (15/20 mpg). My latest tankful was up around 48 mpg, which made me smile. As we've all witnessed, driving conditions DO influence mpg so we shouldn't get too alarmed if we don't meet EPA mpg figures. I got stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic doing 10-15 mpg for about 5 miles and according to the on-dash readout, I got over 70 mpg!! I usually use the incremental mpg reading (5 min intervals) screen when I drive because the other page of that screen (showing the wheels turning w/instant mpg varying every mile) is misleading.
Remember that ANY effort to keep the environment cleaner and save gas is good for the planet and therefore good for us all. We should consider ourselvelves pioneers. Average gas price at name brand stations here is $2.35/gal.
Thanks,
Rich
False results on the high side.
But I have very little doubt that slightly aggressive drivers will have relatively poor fuel economy for highway cruising where the major, or maybe only, source of battery recharge is via the ICE.
The two points are not equal.
Enjoyed my car (loved the navigation system) for two days, when on the third day while driving, I received a "VSC" problem message. I immediately took it to the dealer where I bought it, and thats where it has stayed for 2 weeks now. Today is May 25, and tomorrow they think they should have it back to me.
The VSC problem message seems to have been only the tip of iceberg. Diagnostics unvealed 6 more issues. All this had lead the dealer replacing the trans-axle and inverter, both high dollar items. I was told the inverter was shorted, and the transaxle caused it... I hope this is just a fluke and replacing the transaxle/inverter will fix it.
(#9 cause all they offered at the time was #1 or #9 and I wanted Smart Entry and CD changer). Well I was planning on getting it in the spring ESPECIALLY now with gas at 2.30/gal but I went from #7 on the list in March to #6 now?? Looks like this Newburgh NY dealer not even getting 1 car a month? Guess I'm not getting mine till Sept or prob a 2005 model. What a hit Toyota has with this Hybrid! I don't even see any on the road up by me .
Seeing your posting, just as I was about to give up hope, was quite a gift. I've been on the waiting list at Molle Toyota in Kansas City for one month, and today they told me that the salesman actually FORGOT to put my name on the list. Strange, charging my credit card for the $500 deposit didn't slip his mind. Grrrr. After some pointed questions, a saleswoman called me back and told me I was No. 41 on the list, and that they delivered two Priuses last month. They refuse to be pinned down on even a ballpark estimate of when I'll get a vehicle. I'm not impressed by this dealership's performance. So which dealership told you there was a 5-month wait? And, more broadly, can anyone offer advice and strategies for scoring a Prius more quickly? I'm willing to travel quite far around the Midwest. I prefer one with package No. 7, and I'm not too picky about the color. I'll not pay a penny over MSRP, however.
http://www.ai-online.com/issues/article_detail.asp?id=405
Lately, I've been averaging 54 MPG calculated (55-56 MPG displayed).
JOHN
Dennis
He says all the high tech features in the Prius are expensive. Yet the Acura TL has many of the same features and more like leather and 5.1 sound and sells for $30-35k. Again, far less than the $40k he estimates for the Prius.
A lot of R&D has gone into the Prius that normal cars aren't burdened with.
Then there is the R&D to develop a particular technology, manufacturing process, etc.
I don't know the Japanese tax laws but in the US, there are tax credits for R&D.
Plus, Toyota wouldn't amortize it's R&D costs just across this one model. They'd amortize those costs across all the hybrid models they plan to produce.
Again, while the Prius forms a small percentage of their total volumes, they plan to expand the percentage of hybrids sold.
Could they really afford a 50% loss on each unit if they're planning to expand the volumes of such units?
So to assume that the HSD technology in the 2004 Prius isn't on the fast-track to achieving profit also is absurd, especially now that we know the 2005 Prius production volume will be double what it was for the 2004.
In just a few months, HSD will be available in RX400h. About 4 months later, HSD will be available in the Highlander-Hybrid. Following that, a Lexus sedan and another Toyota vehicle will be equipped with HSD.
That's 5 vehicles all using HSD in just the short-term alone.
It is also a much published fact that Toyota wants to have a hybrid option available for every passenger vehicle they offer by 2010.
All the evidence points to this being nothing but a large development effort, just a well thought out new product. That's it. No conspiracy or another such nonsense... unlike the fuel-cell promotion that won't even deliver any feasible product until at least 2010. And even then, the fuel will only be available in very limited areas.
HSD would be a great subject of study in a Profit 101 class, a profound change in the automotive industry (ultimately driven by profit) unfolding as we speak.
JOHN
Look to the LearFan for an answer.
An absolutely beautiful, wonderful "vision" which never went into production.
Regardless of tax rules or laws companies must in some fashion be aware of the potential, rating, of the probability of ROI.
When my company sets out to develop a new product management is very well aware of the cost of the early models. No R&D payback, no next product!
And my guess at this time is that Toyota's current hybrid concept will never make it, successfully, beyond the economy class.
The production availibility of the RX400h has now been delayed 3 times, and my guess is taht it will turn out to be a real dud.
IMMHO the people of the "class" to buy hybrids are more interested in fuel economy rather than 0-60 times. No one of this classs sees the need for V8 performance in an RX400h SUV.
Just read the posts of folks in anticipation of the arrival of GSes and LSes with a SuperCharger hybrd battery pak.
Is that really where we want hybrid products to be??
Enjoyed reading the latest posts about R&D and future vehicle releases. A hearty welcome back to John1701a, I've missed hearing from you. You can bet that when a company does their R&D, product testing and product acceptance, they're looking 3-5 years down the road. Since the Prius debuted in 1997 in Japan, Toyota has been doing their homework. Otherwise they wouldn't have put it on the American market. It's obvious they used what they learned from the classic Prius in the design/tech of the NEW Prius. I've talked to several people who own classic Priuses and they are just amazed at what my '04 can do. Give credit where credit is due. I honestly do not believe that the HSD will give 4WD a run for their money, but as most people foresee the rising costs of fuel and a clean environment as serious concerns, economy/cleaner burning is the name of the game.
Thanks,
Rich
The SC430 had a huge waiting list at one time too. The question is, how long will the demand for SuperCharged RXes hold up absent the "green" market?
Dennis