Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Wrong you own the house and can do with it as you please. All the bank does is have a secured interest in the home. Basically the home is used as collateral in the loan. The bank has no legal ownership in the home.
Ford Credit can call the note anytime they want and we are out of business.
Nope, Ford credit has a contract with your dealership and must honor that contract. So unless the contract states that the loan is callable at any time they cannot do so. Most likely the dealership would have to be in default for at least a month (maybe more) before Ford Credit can take any action.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's how it's supposed to work at least iirc.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Hey its all good Brother. I am still new here and sometimes have a hard time keeping up with the folks here that just like to have a conversation and those who disagree with everything I say because of my chosen proffesion.
Wrong you own the house and can do with it as you please. All the bank does is have a secured interest in the home. Basically the home is used as collateral in the loan. The bank has no legal ownership in the home.
Ford Credit can call the note anytime they want and we are out of business.
Nope, Ford credit has a contract with your dealership and must honor that contract. So unless the contract states that the loan is callable at any time they cannot do so. Most likely the dealership would have to be in default for at least a month (maybe more) before Ford Credit can take any action.
Ok, thanks for pointing all that out.
Wow, that's a new one. Any more details? Product name or company name?
Fla. coast. Forgot the name....
Heres one system:
http://www.counteractrust.com/
and warnings:
http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Car/car-electronic-rust.htm
the funny part about my whole deal was that this F&I guy (i wish i could tell you his name, because it is so appropriate for him!) kept telling me i was wrong. I even called one of my old managers and he ran the numbers through his system and he told me that its probably different in MA (i was in NY buying this car). im like "if i give him the tax rate, your doc fee, and the price of the car and the finance rate - there is no variable there that would make his numbers different than yours just because it was run on a computer in a different STATE! the guy was just an idiot - and had he kept it going, i was ready to stand up and tell everyone out on the floor to walk - because the f&i guy was gonna mess with your numbers.
either way, we had driven 4 hours out to get this car, and i was gonna fight him tooth and nail to get the car. i didn't even negotiate on the price, because it was so good. but maybe that was their MO. they give a great price, then throw in a bunch of stuff in F&I to run up your numbers and make their money.
either way, the f&i guy then started to drag his feet, and a deal that should have taken an hour took us 3.
oh well, water under the bridge!
TGIF!
-thene
it bothers me that all the good f&i guys and salespeople get thrown in the same group as people who choose to work this way...it makes it really hard for the honest people. i was very polite about the whole thing, but still...
Just as I thought, an after market gimmick.
The manufacture couldn’t stand behind this type of an option; therefore, they don’t provide it. I’m sure there are far less of these devices sold than the gas mileage boosters that become even more popular as gas prices rise and not even close to the ever popular snake oils that continue to be sold with the claim they will “eliminate engine wear”.
It’s amazing how stuff like this can continue to be sold to some people. And to think, a lot of these people vote! :sick:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Could have been an honest mistake. That's what I'm always told by you folks in the biz.
mistake i can accept and it happens, and i can forgive. but to me, this was obviously an attempt to bump my price. if, when i had told him i had the numbers calculated by my old manager he said "yeah, that sounds weird, let me go check the back screen to see if everything came out when you said you didn't want warranty, rust proofing, etc" and then found the mistake - well thats fine. but he didnt. he insisted i was wrong, that the payment is like this. until i mentioned that he needed to check his back screen, and he turned bright red before going to do that indicated to me he was trying to pull one on me.
we're all human, and yes, people in the biz make mistakes. don't we all? it just seems that everyone wants to take advantage of someone who makes a mistake, like its completely and totally unacceptable, and that you now owe me free stuff and all kinds of compensation...give me a break :P let he who never made a mistake ever throw the first stone
my two cents
-thene
joel...I don't think there are secret payments, per se. I do know a couple of dealer principals though. All of them admit that payments from the manufacturers are made to dealership franchise owners that aren't figured into the cost of any individual unit or model. Those incentives aren't part of any deal. They are made almost as a bonus to the franchise owner for hitting any number of objectives. And, they have nothing to do with car volume sales incentives.
I qualify for GMS (through my brother-in-law) and used to qualify for A plan with Ford (through my sister). I've bought vehicles well under even the employee pricing plans, even when they subtract incentives. Under those pricing plans, Doc fees are minimal. If I finance, I do so only through a prearranged agreement with my financial institution (so no profit there). Only way thing I can see is the dealership's willingness to take a loss on me. I doubt, very seriously, they like me that much to do that. And, I doubt very seriously, they would want to deal with me if they can't make any money....from somewhere. Yet, they always welcome me into their showrrom to cut "losing" deals.
I just did and if I hit someone I’m sorry because that would have been a mistake.
I was just warming up my arm for softball season.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
As far as the A-plan deal goes, we love it. It is the easiest sale in history and Ford re-imburses us for selling them It is a win win situation. Unless you get some hero who wants to negotiate from A-plan. We run them off.
The only bad thing about A-plan deals is that they don't count in the contest you all are always talking about
It's a sweet deal for the customer because he/she's buying at a price lower than anyone else can buy for.
A few years back, I bought a Mustang on A plan from a Ford dealer friend of mine. This is back when Mustangs were hotter than July 4th firecrackers...no one was discounting them from MSRP (and in some cases, getting ADM). Dealer friend/principal was close to winning one of those manufacturer trips you alluded to. He went under A plan pricing on my deal to get that trip. The trip was worth way more than the few bucks he gave up to win the trip. He didn't have to do that. He told me up front what was going on and wanted to close the deal RIGHT NOW. I obliged.
I've told this story before, but a few months months later, Mustangs were still hot and no one was discounting them. They were tough to come by since Ford was building them as fast as they could, and still couldn't keep up with demand. I ended up selling mine to a private owner, who wanted one badly, but couldn't get his order prioritized...even at MSRP (IIRC, the back log was 6 months on a new one at the time). I made money on the deal. The guy who bought it, ended up trading it in about a year later at the same Ford dealer I bought it from. They ended up selling it, yet again. They made way more on it as a used car than they did selling it to me on A plan.
Ah yes the 1994 Mustang, those were great times. The price? It is right there on the window Mr Customer. What you don't want to pay it? Thanks for stopping buy, check back in 1996, they should be cooled off by then.
In July of 95’ I bought a 95’ Bonneville with 7200 miles. It was previously owned by a retired Pontiac executive. While negotiating on the car the salesman told me this executive tale and I’m thinking, yeah, yeah, uh huh, sure he was. As part of the deal, I wanted one extra key (are you listening Bobst) but when they went to get me the extra key they found that they didn’t have any blanks so they couldn’t make me one. They gave me a ‘we owe you’ slip saying that I should call in about a week because by then they would surely have one. So I called the service dept. in about a week and they said they had it and to come in whenever it was convenient for me.
I go to the service dept. the next day and the service advisor says no problem Mr. jmonroe, I have a note saying we owe you a key and I have the blank right here. So I give him my key and he says we punch these now so just give me the Vin No. and I’ll have it punched right away for you. I go to the car to get the Vin No. and he puts it into the computer and he smiles and says, “Oh, you’re the one that bought Mr. Smiths car” and he proceeds to tell me the guy was a Pontiac exec. and he was entitled to buy two vehicles a year at a price set by Pontiac, that was much better than the normal working stiffs price. They then receive payment from Pontiac for handling the sale. He said they see him twice a year like clock work and while he usually didn’t trade in his cars (which he said was at a price also determined by Pontiac) he had done it a few times in the past. He also said he usually sold them to someone in the family, friend, neighbor etc.
So, what kind of a Plan do you call this? It sounds to me like executives get specials deals. :surprise:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Up until a few years ago when the walls started crashing down for Ford the big wigs got ridiculously great deals on 1 year leases. I mean dirt cheap stuff. They way I know this is that here in my area Ford Credit has a Regional Office and once a year Ford would ask us to take what ever the 3 vehichles they had to choose from and take them to the HQ for the Big Wigs to see. They were driving 4X4 EB Explorers for like $185 a month.
Ah the gravy days, how I miss them. Those were also the days when the manufacture would throw around big money for the sales people to. Not anymore though.
Ever wonder if that customer ever did come back? Or is he driving Hondas now? I suspect that customers who were treated like that at any dealer would never buy that brand again.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
No I never really wondered about it because it never happened. I am living vicariously through this message board saying things I wish I could really say to some of the people that come on the lot or in my office with a chip on there shoulder on the defense thinking that every car dealer in the world is out to screw them. I am glad I don't live with such a fear.
And anyhow if the guy went from wanting a GT Mustang to Honda then he never really new what he wanted in the first place.
Dang allot of you people here take things so seriously. You cut and paste one line out of a conversation that had been going on for 4 or 5 post between several memebers and pounce on it. Lighten up a little and just go with the flow. don't worry i can't acces your checking account from here. I think a bunch of you are my first wife using multiple screen names.
Oops busted, gotta think of more screen names
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sooo, if I see the handle "Fuzzy Wuzzy", you're the first one I'm going to think about.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
I've never done this before, answered my own post but having small talk when we were out to dinner tonight with some friends, I brought up softball season, just as a matter of fact thing. Get a load of this.
I know you’re going to find this hard to believe, maybe even impossible, but Mrs. jmonroe is actually glad to get me out of the house.
However, she did warn me that if I continue to play little boy games at my age and I break my leg, like a friend of mine did a couple of years ago, and had to have his meals brought to him in bed, for the first few days after he was released from the hospital, I am going to starve.
She also mentioned something about not coming to see me in the hospital on her way back from the mall but I know she was just kidding about that. As for that serving me meals thing, she was dead serious about that. :sick:
Being the athlete I am (was), I’m going to push my luck one more year.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Very good.
I really liked that.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Why would that be hard to believe, I would expect it.
Ducking and running
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The Acura salesman wants me to sign this 3 days money back guarantee return form so that I can reserve the car since that there is another buyer in line.
Are those legit? I read over this form and it does says full refund before 3 days or 250 miles.
Any catch to
I have never dealt with or seen anyone return one though. And when that does happen usually the used car manager deals with it.
But yes, do check the fine print for restocking fees, or exchange only clauses etc.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Are all dealers out to screw buyers? It is all-relative, isn’t it? Most are certainly not inherently evil.
The bottom line is that a salesman’s job is to
1. Get you to buy a car from them
2. Extract as much money from you as possible.
3. Try to make you as happy as they can while leaving your wallet as light as possible.
They are trained to extract information from their prey, process that information to determine the best way to accomplish their job. In many cases that does mean tricking the prospective buyer by using unethical means to get them to make decisions that are not in their best interest.
The salesmen only wants your money; all of it if he can. That is how they survive. And of course, he wants you to be happy giving him all your money so you may buy from him again, or refer others to him.
I was an Internet poker pro for almost 3 years and there are a lot of similarities in what I did and what a car salesmen does. One difference is my prey was trying to do the same to me where the car buyer usually is not. Many buyers are in desperation to get a car to live, and just want to get a fair deal.
I’m not evil, but I was after their money, and I wanted them to be happy slowly losing their money over long periods of time. I hated it when another player would insult a sucker at the table for making a stupid play. I wanted to keep them happy and sitting at the table playing.
I see a lot of posts talking about honest mistakes by the dealer. Can a dealer make an honest mistake? Of course. But lets face it folks, when there is this much money involved, honest mistakes are virtually eliminated by checking and rechecking numbers. Any so-called mistake is a tactic by the dealer.
Notice how any mistake caught by the buyer at the last moment is always in the dealers favor. Any mistake caught by the dealer at the last moment is always in the buyers favor, put there on purpose to get the buyer that close to owning the car. When was the last time a buyer could sign on the dotted line, and actually pay less for the car than he was suppose too (And get away with it). It does not happen often. How many of you out there payed less for the car than you were supposed to and the dealership didn’t find out until after you signed. A real honest mistake.
Selling cars is a very predatory business.
I can belive it. Heck we have been holding seceret covert meeting trying to figure out how to get you outa here
Good post badman2. I will agree with it to a degree. it is just human nature for a person to defend there actions. be it there profession, the way they raise there kids, or if the decide to paint there house pink with yellow polka dots and the neighbors complain.
But I don't leave the house every morning trying to figure out how I am going to screw someone in a the finance office, and it is not a shell game. You are presented with options. You choose which options you want and which you don't. There is nothing under handed or sly about it. Its a business transaction. The only difference between me and a big box retail store is that when you check out there they ask you if you want a service contract on your TV/Lawn Mower/Microwave. I do the same thing I just go into more detail. If a person does not like the rate I offer then they are welcome to bring me a check from there bank. I have a book with the interest rates for the majority of the banks in my area. We look through it and let them decide.
But just like you I am looking for the guy to go all in and hope I have the better hand
I love my job and am able to go home every night and put my head down on the pillow knowing that I have done nothing that I will have to answer for down the road. Can every person in this profession say the same thing? No there are those that feel they still need to lie to sell a car. I just don't like being lumped into that group and get passionate sometimes in my own defense. There are good and bad in all professions. Its the consumers responsibility to figure out which they are dealing with. You can only be sold what you will let yourself be sold, and you will only pay what you agree to pay.
I share Stories here on occasion because that is one of the basis of the community. I consider the folks here to be smarter then the average consumer and take the stories for what they are. Entertainment. Some feel they need to attack the transactions with a vengeance. When they do I offer a rebuttal. If the stories offend some then they need to stop reading the "Stories from the front line thread" that will keep there blood pressure down, and mine to.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I believe it was Heinlen who said "There is no such thing as a social gambler, you are either there to cut the other guys heart out and eat it or your a fool." I have done an awful lot of poker playing in my life and all of it face to face. I have also been in sales. You are right about similarities. In order to be sucessful in both you need to be able to read "tells" in the other while eliminating any "tells" you might have. you also need to know when to bluff and not be afraid to call anothers bluff.
Selling cars is a very predatory business.
Any commissioned sales job is a very predatory business.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Look for quality product, people, and service. You may find that they're all to be found in the same place. You may also find that they're actually worth a few hundred $$$ more than the low-baller who normally doesn't have the quality people, service, or product).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I knew it ...I knew it ...I just knew it.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Like you, there were lines I would not cross as a poker player because it was not in my nature.
like colluding with another player, tricking someone into playing a game with me they could not win (hustling), etc...
I always felt I was doing what I was suposed to do even though I was ridiculed by some family and friends saying I was taking advantage of people with legitimate gambling problems. I don’t know, maybe this was true at times. Was I evil. I didn’t think so. But true evil people never think their evil, do they their actions are always justified.
:surprise:
I guess when it comes to car buying, i feel as though I am in the same game, but this time I'm the sucker. :mad:
Tell you what ... lets chop the pot
I ate at a pizza hut about a month ago. To my surprise there were signs posted by the cash register, in plain view, that read something like
Boost the bill, boost your tips
And
Any employee caught giving a customer a coupon is subject to termination.
Wow, and I just wanted to pay a fair price for some good er... edible pizza.
If she'd been a guy, I hate to imagine how nasty JJ would have been toward him. But that's a whole other discussion group. Well, I guess this one actually is too. But it's related to getting the best deal. I said long ago that the used car side is where many people lose the most money in dealing with dealerships, although I worded it differently.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
They gotta save the pennies to pay those CEOs those 100s of millions. A poor worker is just the throwaway part.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
gotta watch out for all those predatory department store salespeople...
Sorry, but the way you said it sounded like it did. I guess I just believe anything a salesman says.
"...if the guy went from wanting a GT Mustang to Honda then he never really knew what he wanted..."
Doesn't Honda make some sporty cars? Civic Si or B2000?
"...I think you are my first wife..."
No, I'm not your ex but she did call and say to tell you that she is still waiting for you to take out the garbage like you promised. LOL.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Then why were you at Pizza Hut?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D