is a nice truck, and sounds great with only 34,000 miles, but the market is flooded with them. The books we all use are simply guides, and don't adequately take this factor into account.
The dealer probably picked up that truck for $18,500-19,000, and after transport, service and detailing might have $19,500-20,000 in it. $20,500-21,000 selling price (plus tt&l) seems more than fair.
a deal is a deal. However, the dealer would probably lose the deal because these folks have mistakenly assumed the dealer is a lying thief because they mixed up the 3 and the 4.
Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't happen on an odometer statement. These folks are still paying too much for the truck, though.
If I was the sale manager at the dealership, I wouldn't have said anything, but I'm not...
too much, maybe for you or me...but they thought it was a fair and affordable price at the time. since then, the only thing that has changed is the apparent disability of the salesman to transpose numbers. not a reason to renegotiate, IMO.
if it were me, i would do the "oops, sorry...here is 10% off your next oil change" this is not a "oops, sorry...here is another $1500 for my boo-boo"
do the deal, get the truck you want, move on, and enjoy it.
Nothing has been finalized. It could have been an honest mistake. He will fix it or the truck will be sitting right there on the lot. (I have purchased a car from this guy before. Not to make excuses for him, but I can see how it could happen. He was talking to us while writing up the sale sheet.) I havent talked to him again b/c I prefer to do business in person, as opposed to on the phone. This has to be straightened out before we take the papers to our credit union.
As far as the price, that is the average price of 2001 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauers for my area. I have seen a few more trucks in my area for similar prices, with less features and a little more miles. Compared to the others, this was the better deal.
I am kind of new at this negotiating a car. That is the reason I turned to this board. So, all thoughts, comments and advice is truly welcomed. I posted a question in another forum. I was advised to appraise it first. I did and used that as my starting point.
Who knows, things might work out where we can get it for cheaper. (We are looking at other dealers, too, to do some comparison and to see how much they will budge.)
my point is that, to get a signed buyers order from a dealer, you have to settle on a final price. you did that. renegotiating or demanding more of a discount would be extremely inconsiderate, and could even jeopardize them honoring the first price.
once you open negotiations again, all previous agreements are null and void. if the SM is in a bad mood, he may just say "no deal at any price" and blow you out the door. ive seen it happen.
I looked at a '02 Subaru Forester being sold by a private owner and the car seems in very good shape. But I'm concerned because I'm dealing with the owner's brother. He said the dealer who sold his sister a new car did her a favor and made it look like she traded in the Forester. That way, her sales taxes were $600 lower. The dealer name is now on the title. And is it me (and my husband) or does this sound weird? He advertised it for $14,385, lowered it $500 after 1 week, and will take $13,300. The car is automatic, 43000 miles, and has alum. alloy wheels. Now that we're serious about buying it, we're a little nervous. And he wasn't too nice on the phone today when I questioned him some more about this. Has anyone heard of this before? Really appreciate your advice! Thanks.
I'm curious.. where did you see the car? Did you meet the seller at his home to look at the car, or did he meet you elsewhere? Do you contact him at his home phone or through a cell phone? Those are some of the things that tip me off to unlicensed dealers, etc...
Most legitimate dealers won't do what he is suggesting they did for his sister, unless his sister already had a buyer waiting for the car. And then they would do the sale paperwork at the dealer. Sounds fishy.
I have spoken to him on both a home number and a cell number. To see the car, we drove to an address in an apartment complex, but couldn't spot the number. I called him then and he said he was out doing errands and came to meet us at the entrance gate. He said he lives nearby with his wife and 2 kids, but has a place in the complex for an office. Later on, we thought you know, we don't know his sister's name, we don't know this guy's address, and then you start feeling suspicious. It just seemed a little odd, but I don't have much experience buying cars. I would usually take someone's word as true, but this whole car dealer thing has me worried!
...in these united states that will "buy" a car, put their name on the title, and hand the whole shebang to the owner's sister's husband's cousin for resale.
You could use this car to further your education... crawl over it, find the paint overspray and the signs of frame work... get a carfax and see what pops up... listen carefully to the engine... if you can find what's wrong with it, you get a gold star and a one-month prepaid ccba membership.
If you were to buy that car, you'd be buying it from that dealer. I mean, duh. He owns it, nobody else can sell it. The whole thing doesn't even make sense as a scam.
On a side note, 3-year-old Subarus are so dear that you should carefully consider a new one... -Mathias
Thanks for the advice all of you have given! I called the dealer, who looked into their records and found the '02 Forester listed as a trade-in to them. He thought it was very odd. So I am definitely staying away from this "deal." Hoping to find another Forester because I really like it! This story probably proves again the truth of "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably isn't."
I will soon be in the market to purchase a used vehicle. Can I request to see the invoice for the price the dealer paid should I use a dealer vs private sale? I am considering a Cadillac CTS 2003 model. If I am able to view the invoice for what the dealer paid, what's a rule of thumb for a fair offer above invoice? I don't need to send the salesman on a cruise and buy him/her a new Rolex. Thank you!
I don't know of a dealer who would take the auction card out or show the actual cash value they paid for a trade. I know I wouldn't do it. Besides, it's irrelevant - what if they put too much into a trade to make a deal happen? You're not going to pay more than market value because they paid too much, are you?
I would think it rude to ask a merchant what they paid for a product they are selling.
It's always the current market that determines what a car is worth. It's not uncommon for even an experienced used car manager to pay too much for a car or get hit with unexpected reconditioning costs. Sometimes there is no profit or even a loss when selling used cars.
I tried to close a sale on a used car that we were buried in. The customer was one of those guys who was more focused on how much we might be making than on the car's value. He even admitted that he thought the car was fairly priced.
He was scared to death we just might be making more of a profit than he deemed to be "fair".
So, I asked him what he thought would be a fair profit on a 20,000 used car. 500.00 was his reply. Knowing the ad price was a dead even deal on a 60 day unit, I asked him if he would pay us 500.00 more than we had in the car. He said he would do just that.
So, I brought out the printout showing every penny we had in the car.
Didn't work. He was determined we were making some hidden profit somewhere.
The car sold the next day to someone who recognized a good value.
an unrelated quick quesion. I'm planning on buying a 2002 Honda CRV now but i can wait until beginning of January. Will the prices drop significantly or is the depreciation calculated each month in sources like Edmund's or Kelly Blue Book?
This is a question I am wondering also. I want to buy a 02 civic ex a/t sedan (will live with coupe). Is it better to buy now, at the end of this year or wait until Jan to purchase? I know some Honda dealers have financing incentives for 24/36, 48 or 60 mo financing that is up 1/5/05. But aside from that what is the best time IYHO? I am in Philly.
best time to buy is when you need the car. It is reasonable to assume that prices will go down slightly each month, but it isn't linear. Supply and demand drives the price, so it is possible that a CR-V could cost more in 2 months (with snow and all). I think the year end deals are more likely to be on new cars rather than used cars.
So, IMHO, a CR-V will not be significantly cheaper in January, but that is purely a guess. I'm not in the business, but even the pros would be guessing (although their guesses might be slightly more educated).
......... Depending on where you live, weather and what model CR-V, I wouldn't be looking for some amazing discount .. CR-V's depreciate about $50 a month .. like Stickguy mentioned, you "could" "might" even spend a little more depending on the weather come January ..........
I bought a multi-family home and my vehicle needs changed so I needed to purchase a pickup truck. In Oct.2003 I bought a 04 Saturn Ion2 almost loaded MSRP $17,100 (paid 14,300) and driven it 12,000 miles. needed no reconditioning.
The dealer pulled out his auction listings and showed me 2 that sold for $7,000 and thats what they offered me for trade.
Do your research, make your offer with auction prices in mind but add for profit and operating expenses.
If they dont like it walk away, leave them your #.
...... Hmmm, obviously your new to the neighborhood ....
Saturns have the resale of 3 day old piazza, most Honda's do pretty strong numbers -- stick around, read some posts and maybe you can get a "feel" of whats being said here .. Isell gives a very honest opinion, no salesman talk here, he's got nothing, as in -0- to gain on this board .............
My beloved '92 SAAB has crossed the threshold where I cannot justify the estimated cost of repairs. I shouldn't be driving it, but have little choice. I've been looking for a few weeks - the SAAB has spoiled me in terms of comfort, so I've been looking at '99 and "00 cars that are well-appointed. Most are priced around $12K sticker, but my experience with the first one tells me that there's a lot of room for negotiation. I've always bought new, though, so am being overcautious, I think. Today I found an Infinity G20 at a well-respected Honda dealership. It's a very nice car and drove nicely. It had been advertised for $9998 and with TTL it's about $900 more. This was the first place that has given me the old-style lines: "we're losing money on this," "it's going to be snapped up," "if I tint the windows will you buy today?" and so on. But I have $10K for a car. Paying $11K is a stretch for me. So first of all, am I being unrealistic? Should I stop telling the sales guys that I want to spend $10K? More importantly, I shop like a girl. I know I do - I want a pretty car that has a nice interior, good stereo and smooth drive. I don't know anything about torque or differential or any other of the words I'm probably using incorrectly. How do I find a mechanic that will assess the car? How much should I pay for that? Can I be confident in the car if a mechanic says it looks okay? (Actually, I wish someone would just tell me exactly what to buy. This whole process is depressing.) Thanks for any advice.
..**I shop like a girl. I know I do - I want a pretty car that has a nice interior, good stereo and smooth drive. I don't know anything about torque or differential or any other ...**
At least your honest ..l.o.l...
Usually a good mechanic will run in and around $100 for a real good inspection .. your local Nissan or Infinity dealer can do it and it's a good idea .... the G20, whats it worth.? it all depends on the year, the miles, options, color and where you live ...
Friends or relatives can also be a good source for recommendations for a local independant mechanic, if that's easier than using the dealer (probably cheaper too). Also a good way to find someone you are comfortable with for future repairs, to avoid having to go to the dealer for everything.
G20s are nice cars, and should make you happy if you like a '92 SAAB. Also very reliable.
Post the details over on Real World Trade In Values, which is where Terry (RRoyce) does his best number crunching work.
I am a girl, and therefore shop like a girl I love Infiniti products, and have owned an I30. When I went to purchase a new vehicle, I drove the G20, and it really wasn't much to write home about. Not a big enough upgrade from the Sentra, IMO; but reliable, oh yes. Unless you're set on that particular car, you might want to look at some other upmarket-brand used vehicles, like the offerings from Acura, VW, and Volvo. That way, you'll at least have some comparison.
Just my opinion - you can always visit a discussion for the undecided: Help Me Choose!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
According to a Chicago radio auto show this Saturday:
Women buy 52% of all vehicles and have a say in 70% of the buying decisions ...
Reminds me of my wife: "Certainly, you can buy that car... and yes, you *should* get the leather ... it'll be more comfortable for you to sleep in it every night ..."
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I am considering buying a used vehicle that is not in the area I live. I am leery of buying a car without seeing it myself, but having a reliable mechanic's report would mostly put me at ease. What types of services are available to do this? Can you offer to pay someone to take the car to a recommended mechanic? What are my options here?
Maybe it falls under "Purchasing Used Vehicles", but perhaps there is enough interest to start a general thread on used vehicle inspections, covering what to look for and how much it costs.
the dealership where I work does a fair amount of business via internet/ebay - thus we draw from a good distance. I am always comfortable writing up a deal and putting some sort of mutually agreeable verbiage on the buyer's order like, "final purchase pending mechanic's approval. deposit refundable if vehicle not approved." We are in a metro area so there are no shortages of garages - and most charge between $50 and $100 for a look see. The biggest issue is for a non-local to find a local garage they can trust. Just remember, any agency that does not allow you to have someone else inspect the car prior to purchase may not be trustworthy.
there are some mobile services. I think AAA does this in some areas, and I think there is a commercial service (or there was at one point). I have never used one, some I'm just speaking from what I remember reading here and seeing in the press.
Just to clarify, by remote I am talking about far enough away you'd want to fly out to get the car. Far enough away that you'd want to see a mechanic's report *before* you ever saw the car in person.
For example, there is only one of the particular model I'm looking at here in town; cars.com shows two more an hour away, and the next closest vehicles are almost 600 miles away.
If I could determine the car was sound and got a good deal, it might be worth buying on the other side of the country and flying out/driving back or having it shipped.
That's kind of a tough question. I think I would (if you were my customer) advise you that I could fax you a Carfax and a complete reconditioning report from our mechanic. This would outline, on about 50-60 points everything that he measured, looked at, repaired, replaced, and sometimes recommended servicing (and we turned down). The key to remember (at a dealership, at least) is that the mechanics get paid for fixing the cars we trade and buy at the auctions, so it is not in their interest, or that of their license or wallet, to skimp on reconditioning. I can tell you that I have paid to align more cars and service more batteries than is reasonable - but I don't second guess my techs. A look at those two reports and some phone/email negotiations should help you get close... BUT remember, if YOU (as a consumer) know that this is one of 4 cars in almost 600 miles - so does the Internet Manager. That will likely have an effect on your price.
I looked at a used (1999) BMW Z3 last year, in NJ. It was decent, but had some issues (most notably a leaky trunk, so the battery was swimming in 6 inches of water). Somehow I noticed this, not the dealership, so who knows what else they missed.
Anyway, at the time, they had a tentative deal with some guy in Alaska! He was going to buy it (assuming his money issues cleared up) and have it shipped, for god knows how much money.
not to defend them, but we have had similar things happen...usually in the summer. A week to 10 days of dry weather, the car goes through the shop, gets detailed, out to the lot it goes...thunderstorm...puddles. I'll confess that part of the reconditioning is not a water test, but if they leak you gotta fix em.
Let's say I found a car on the internet at a dealer and we agreed on a price, then found a reputable, recommended independent mechanic near them. Would it be possible to get the car to the mechanic or mechanic to the car for a check-up? What would it take to make that happen?
I bought a used car a few years back at a local Mazda dealer. I made it contingnet on my mechanic looking at it. They had no problem with this, but insisted that they bring it up (I was perfectly willing to do it myself). The salesguy took the couple hours to drive it up, wait (I think) and bring it back. In any case, the garage was 20+ minutes from the dealership, so it was some effort.
It would only take 1)your money (about $50-$100 most likely) and 2)the dealership's willingness to help you. I'm not sure you would get a mechanic to go to the lot, he'd probably rather use his own facility. The only problem I could foresee is that the only time we do this is when it is the last speed bump. That's to say, we have a deposit, an agreed upon price, and a signed buyer's order (with the verbiage I mentioned earlier about the mechanic's inspection). Honestly, if a potential customer called/emailed me from a few hundred miles away and started the negotiations with the desire for a mechanic's inspection, I'm not sure I'd be too interested (cost factor of running cars to other garages). It really needs to be the last step.
Comments
The dealer probably picked up that truck for $18,500-19,000, and after transport, service and detailing might have $19,500-20,000 in it. $20,500-21,000 selling price (plus tt&l) seems more than fair.
Mistakes happen, but they shouldn't happen on an odometer statement. These folks are still paying too much for the truck, though.
If I was the sale manager at the dealership, I wouldn't have said anything, but I'm not...
if it were me, i would do the "oops, sorry...here is 10% off your next oil change" this is not a "oops, sorry...here is another $1500 for my boo-boo"
do the deal, get the truck you want, move on, and enjoy it.
As far as the price, that is the average price of 2001 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauers for my area. I have seen a few more trucks in my area for similar prices, with less features and a little more miles. Compared to the others, this was the better deal.
Who knows, things might work out where we can get it for cheaper. (We are looking at other dealers, too, to do some comparison and to see how much they will budge.)
once you open negotiations again, all previous agreements are null and void. if the SM is in a bad mood, he may just say "no deal at any price" and blow you out the door. ive seen it happen.
;-)
kcram
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Most legitimate dealers won't do what he is suggesting they did for his sister, unless his sister already had a buyer waiting for the car. And then they would do the sale paperwork at the dealer. Sounds fishy.
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regards,
kyfdx
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You could use this car to further your education... crawl over it, find the paint overspray and the signs of frame work... get a carfax and see what pops up... listen carefully to the engine... if you can find what's wrong with it, you get a gold star and a one-month prepaid ccba membership.
If you were to buy that car, you'd be buying it from that dealer. I mean, duh. He owns it, nobody else can sell it. The whole thing doesn't even make sense as a scam.
On a side note, 3-year-old Subarus are so dear that you should carefully consider a new one...
-Mathias
You've all been a big help.
- Terry
Thank you!
Do your homework, make a fair offer.
It's always the current market that determines what a car is worth. It's not uncommon for even an experienced used car manager to pay too much for a car or get hit with unexpected reconditioning costs. Sometimes there is no profit or even a loss when selling used cars.
He was scared to death we just might be making more of a profit than he deemed to be "fair".
So, I asked him what he thought would be a fair profit on a 20,000 used car. 500.00 was his reply. Knowing the ad price was a dead even deal on a 60 day unit, I asked him if he would pay us 500.00 more than we had in the car. He said he would do just that.
So, I brought out the printout showing every penny we had in the car.
Didn't work. He was determined we were making some hidden profit somewhere.
The car sold the next day to someone who recognized a good value.
What would "you" feel is a fair offer.?
Terry.
an unrelated quick quesion. I'm planning on buying a 2002 Honda CRV now but i can wait until beginning of January. Will the prices drop significantly or is the depreciation calculated each month in sources like Edmund's or Kelly Blue Book?
Thanks.
So, IMHO, a CR-V will not be significantly cheaper in January, but that is purely a guess. I'm not in the business, but even the pros would be guessing (although their guesses might be slightly more educated).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Terry.
I bought a multi-family home and my vehicle needs changed so I needed to purchase a pickup truck. In Oct.2003 I bought a 04 Saturn Ion2 almost loaded MSRP $17,100 (paid 14,300) and driven it 12,000 miles. needed no reconditioning.
The dealer pulled out his auction listings and showed me 2 that sold for $7,000 and thats what they offered me for trade.
Do your research, make your offer with auction prices in mind but add for profit and operating expenses.
If they dont like it walk away, leave them your #.
Saturns have the resale of 3 day old piazza, most Honda's do pretty strong numbers -- stick around, read some posts and maybe you can get a "feel" of whats being said here .. Isell gives a very honest opinion, no salesman talk here, he's got nothing, as in -0- to gain on this board .............
Terry.
What a waste of money. So much money, so little car ...
Today I found an Infinity G20 at a well-respected Honda dealership. It's a very nice car and drove nicely. It had been advertised for $9998 and with TTL it's about $900 more. This was the first place that has given me the old-style lines: "we're losing money on this," "it's going to be snapped up," "if I tint the windows will you buy today?" and so on. But I have $10K for a car. Paying $11K is a stretch for me. So first of all, am I being unrealistic? Should I stop telling the sales guys that I want to spend $10K?
More importantly, I shop like a girl. I know I do - I want a pretty car that has a nice interior, good stereo and smooth drive. I don't know anything about torque or differential or any other of the words I'm probably using incorrectly. How do I find a mechanic that will assess the car? How much should I pay for that? Can I be confident in the car if a mechanic says it looks okay?
(Actually, I wish someone would just tell me exactly what to buy. This whole process is depressing.) Thanks for any advice.
At least your honest ..l.o.l...
Usually a good mechanic will run in and around $100 for a real good inspection .. your local Nissan or Infinity dealer can do it and it's a good idea .... the G20, whats it worth.? it all depends on the year, the miles, options, color and where you live ...
Terry.
That's funny. Could be worse...
My first car or two, I shopped like a Swiss (*) tax auditor.... I've loosened up a bit since.
(*) The Swiss are like the Germans, but without the sense of humor...
Mornin' Terry, you're up early.
-Mathias
G20s are nice cars, and should make you happy if you like a '92 SAAB. Also very reliable.
Post the details over on Real World Trade In Values, which is where Terry (RRoyce) does his best number crunching work.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Just my opinion - you can always visit a discussion for the undecided:
Help Me Choose!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Women buy 52% of all vehicles and have a say in 70% of the buying decisions ...
Reminds me of my wife: "Certainly, you can buy that car... and yes, you *should* get the leather ... it'll be more comfortable for you to sleep in it every night ..."
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Maybe it falls under "Purchasing Used Vehicles", but perhaps there is enough interest to start a general thread on used vehicle inspections, covering what to look for and how much it costs.
Thanks.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
For example, there is only one of the particular model I'm looking at here in town; cars.com shows two more an hour away, and the next closest vehicles are almost 600 miles away.
If I could determine the car was sound and got a good deal, it might be worth buying on the other side of the country and flying out/driving back or having it shipped.
A look at those two reports and some phone/email negotiations should help you get close...
BUT remember, if YOU (as a consumer) know that this is one of 4 cars in almost 600 miles - so does the Internet Manager. That will likely have an effect on your price.
Anyway, at the time, they had a tentative deal with some guy in Alaska! He was going to buy it (assuming his money issues cleared up) and have it shipped, for god knows how much money.
Must be a rare car up there, for good reason.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Terry.
Honestly, if a potential customer called/emailed me from a few hundred miles away and started the negotiations with the desire for a mechanic's inspection, I'm not sure I'd be too interested (cost factor of running cars to other garages). It really needs to be the last step.