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Only partially true. Unlike the the Honda Real-time 4WD, all Subies, regardless of the AWD system used are 100% AWD all the time. The Honda unit reverts to FWD when not needed.
The Subie may shift power fore and aft, as per the Honda, but never are the rear wheels not driven.
Bob
The VW Touareg has an excellent off-road full-time 4WD system with a high and low range, yet I bet many will call it AWD.
Bottom line: I know where you're coming from, and I don't disagree with you; but I still say it's more about marketing than anything else.
Bob
Subie AWD systems:
Manual trannys (except STi): Viscous coupling 50/50 front-to-rear default power split
STi: Driver-controlled power split ranging from 41/59 to 59/41 (2006 models) front-to-rear power split
Non-VDC/VDT automatics: Electronic clutch coupling 90/10 front-to-rear default power split
VDC/VDT automatics: Electronic clutch coupling 45/55 front-to-rear default power split
Bob
That is AWD, not 4WD. Also, is the RL FWD unless the rear wheels are needed (like on CR-V) or is it full time AWD?
Bob
The Dodge Durango/Dakota and the Jeep Grand Cherokee/Commander both offer a high-range-only full-time AWD/4WD. It's virtually the same unit on both the Dodge and Jeep.
Jeep calls it "4WD," and Dodge calls it "AWD."
I'm tellin' ya, it's marketing—and it confuses customers to no end, as this rather lengthy AWD/4WD discussion shows.
Bob
My source is a Honda press release posted on the official Honda media site.
If you're trying to explain how Flint's remarks do not match up with Honda's own figures... I cannot help you. My best guess is that he was using sales to date (including the first weeks of January).
No need be antagonistic about it.
If you wish to point out that these full-size vehicles can haul as much as the Ridgeline, but only if you remove all passengers, and all cargo, and all optional equipment, and the 4WD system, and then add a V8 engine, then, yes, I concede the point.
But I'm of the opinion that such a statement makes these full-sizers sound kinda pitiful.
Not certain if this was already addressed. Pardon me if this is redundant.
VTM-4 operates under reactive mode at ALL TIMES. In this mode, the system responds to throttle input as well as slippage. The best description for this would be "electronically engaged 4 wheel drive". Doesn't matter if you're doing 5 mph or 100 mph.
At low speeds, the driver may put the vehicle in either L1 or L2 and press the VTM-4 Lock button. This locks the front and rear axles together sending power in a 50/50 split. This is more or less just like the old 4x4 systems some folks are so enamored with. Except the VTM-4 system also locks the two half-shafts on the rear axle. That means it functions like a locking rear differential. This mode will automatically release when you drive above 18 mph. If you return below 18 mph, it will engage once more (assuming you haven't moved the gear selector).
That LOCK MODE is the one people most often get confused about. Hope that helps.
There are advantages to traditional 4WD systems as well as AWD. I don't think anyone would deny that. When driving across the desert a traditional 4X4 system would be preferred. You'd only encounter one sort of terrain.
One of the advantages to an AWD system is that you can use it on dry or wet roads. You cannot use a traditional selector-style 4X4 on anything other than slick surfaces. You risk binding in the driveshaft, which results in scrubbing your tires (if you're lucky), or a driveshaft shaped like a pretzel (if you're not).
This means you can drive over any sort of terrain. Drive down a bare road with VTM-4 and encounter some ice, or standing water, or sand and the VTM-4 will kick in far faster than you can grab that gear selector and get it into 4hi.
That assumes, of course, your particular system allows you to shift on the fly. I'm told the last generation Xterra actually forced you to move the 4WD selector, back up 10 feet, and then try to make forward progress.
While out there we had a big temp drop with snow and lots of wind creating snow drifts on the road and the Ridge handled all of it without a problem. I was also able to fit 3 adults in the back seat comfortably and I actually had 4 in the back seat (3 women, 1 guy) for a 20 minute drive and they all had room for their butts to fit on the seat without a complaint.
The trip for me just reconfirmed how well the Ridgeline fits what I need from a truck.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/index.jsp?epi-content=GENERIC&news- Id=20060116005175&ndmHsc=v2*A1134824400000*B1137494042000*DgroupByDate*J2*L1*N10- 00837*Zhonda%20ridgeline&newsLang=en&beanID=202776713&viewID=news_view
Strategic Vision measures the experience of approximately 90,000 new vehicle owners annually. The survey has been done since 1996. Because of the nature of the factors measured, the results give the industry actionable information about multiple issues, including (a) building better vehicles, (b) communicating more effectively, (c) increasing sales opportunity, (d) creating strong brand image, (e) creating loyalty, and (f) assessing success and failure of strategy. GM product, not problems, and multiple levels of success are foremost.
Strategic Vision Announces Most Delightful Vehicles of 2005
Strategic Vision directly measures Customer Delight, which assesses the customers' responses to specific aspects of their vehicles, capturing the strength of the emotional response to what the vehicle delivers. The Edwards Customer Delight Scale(R) measures those responses. Scores range from 0-1000 depending on how comprehensively a vehicle delivers against the customers' specific needs. The top of the scale explicitly measures "Delight." A Customer Delight Index(TM) for 2005 was calculated from the responses of over 90,000 new vehicle owners who made their purchases between September 2004 and April 2005. They have owned their vehicles for at least 90 days, and the primary driver of the vehicle was surveyed.
Some of the winners in their class:
Compact Pickup Honda Ridgeline 612
Full-Size Pickup Nissan Titan 605
Heavy-Duty Pickup GMC Sierra 2500/3500 529
There are over a dozen DIFFERENT systems to tranfer power from the engine to all four wheels. Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses.
You CAN NOT lump over a dozen very different systems into two labels of AWD and 4WD.
How about if we stick to discussing The RL's implimentation of 4wd/awd and it's strengths and weaknesses?
Just a thought...
thegrad
I would like to find some that are rectangle-shaped that fit in the space below the headlights.
Now you can call this an all wheel drive, and you can call this a 6X6 drive or you can call this a 4X6/all wheel drive hybred, but I can promise you I'll never be late for dinner -- even if I had to drive it across the Sahara to deliver medical supplies first!
The point is a simple one. All wheel drive or 4X4. Automatic or manual. Either configuration can be built as tough as you want.
You're absolutely right. And you, being an old military guy, probably know that Oskosh, the maker of a lot of severe-duty military vehicles also use the term "AWD" when describing their drive systems.
Bob
Is it really that hard for you to accept that the Ridgeline has ONE truckish virtue where it surpasses the rest? It has a high payload rating. That's all.
Anyhoo, as much as I enjoyed my time bouncing around the boon docks in a big fat M-64, my beat up suburban middle aged [non-permissible content removed] now greatly appreaciates the comfort, quality and refinement of my Ridgeline.
Here's the Oshkosh "defense products" site. The vehicle shown here not only has AWD but also a fully independent suspension—two items old-fashioned off-roaders hate; and as we all know, items also found on the Ridgeline.
http://www.oshkoshtruck.com/defense/products~wtanker~home.cfm
This Oshkosh site is interesting to check out. They (Oshkosh) are on the leading edge of severe-duty truck technology. They are also working with hybrids, pilotless vehicles, and much, much more.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Bob
No, of course not.
Apologies to Seinfeld.
http://www.unimogtrucks.com/
Never met a Unimog I didn't like.
John
I wish I could have conversation about my truck, but there is no Ford activity in Town Hall. I would love to have conversation about my other vehicle, but there is no Saturn conversation in Town Hall, either. Besides, where is it written that only owners of a particular vehicle can comment about it? If that were the case, there would only be 2 or 3 folks here talking.
It's not crazy. It's true. The Ridgeline has a higher payload than any of the other trucks we've compared it to when similarly equipped.
I'm sure that you understand when you eliminate things like A/C or 4WD or a row of seats, you are changing the nature of the vehicle or reducing its appeal. To meet the Ridgeline's payload, your examples must sacrifice content or functionality. Or the buyer would have to sacrifice savings by opting for extra hardware or an HD package.
That's why we stick with similarly equipped vehicles.
I've had over 2500 pounds of pool sand in the bed of my F-150 (4wd Supercrew payload 1670 pounds) plus two 200 pound people for a short distance. The rear springs were not even fully compressed. Regardless of Full-sized truck payload ratings, they will handle heavy loads (even over ratings) much better.
The Ridgeline is a great truck that fits more people's lifestyles better than than most full sized buyers', but its capabilities are much lower regardless of ratings.
uga91, there are a few great F-150 forums outside of Edmunds if you are looking for more activity. Google will find them.
http://hondanews.com/CatID2140?mid=2005011039339&mime=asc
As to overloading your F-150: All truckmakers build in a safety cushion. How much of a cushion? Depends on the truckmaker. That being the case, and in order to compare apples-to-apples, all we have to go by is what the truckmakers actually publish.
Bob
VTM on: On ice packed highways the Ridge sticks like glue! Much better than my Cherokees or the Ford Aerostar LTD ever could. No matter what kind of drive system you got, an empty pickup can be a bear to keep in a straight line under those conditions. However it seems to me that keeping the power to the front axle helps to keep the tail end in line. In deep snow standing start, it performed well, climbing over the snow without wheel spin. Under those conditions, the Ridge dictates power available. Starting out on ice, the traction control kicked in with a vengeance. I thought I'd stalled it. I now go easy on the throttle until the wheels are turning and after that, business as usual, good-by traffic.
VTM off (fun mode): A bit of fishtail and some wheel spin from stop, and a lot of drifting around corners. Seems you're back to being a driver again. Turning off the VTM sometimes helps. In deep snow you occasionally have to chew your way through so you don't climb up and then have the snow compress underneath and possibly high center the truck.
Dave.
And this is a story you might want to read.
http://www.dundasstarnews.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=brabant/Layout/Ar- - ticle&c=Article&cid=1135291817653&call_pageid=1069851996007&col=1073476868082
You should know that Honda loaded a few trucks and set journalists lose on a driving course. I don't know which models they compared with the Ridgeline. (The only one mentioned by name was the SportTrac. It was mentioned because it was eliminated from the drive when it kept tipping up on two wheels.) Anyway... when loaded, all the other trucks felt less stable and more difficult to control than when they were unloaded. Not so with the Ridgeline. It was much more stable than the others both loaded and unloaded. If you'd like confirmation, the initial test drives published at various sites will mention these tests.
So "handling a load" is more to me than simply not collapsing under the weight.
He is definitely a harry homeowner type. He's got a small camper and sail boat, but nothing that weighs more than 3,000 lbs. He's also got 2 kids and paved roads between his home and his daily job.
The Ridgeline is the closest to what he needs in the truck segment.
Look at the payloads. They rival the full size half ton trucks.
Honda markets it as a mid size (I believe). The size of the Ridgeline is bigger than most midsize and just a tad smaller than the full size.
Yet the last posting on awards won is "Compact Trucks".
Its unique and appears to fill the needs of many people.
Well, first off, there is no rule that only owners of a vehicle can talk about it. If there were, I wouldn't be here, either.
BUT, good forum manners dictate that folks talk about what the topic is actually about. In this case, the topic title is the Ridge, and nothing else. Comparison topics list the vehicles being compared, and that is where most of your comments belong.
I don't have a problem with someone coming on and saying "hey, i compared vehicle X with the topic vehicle and here is what i found." But that's not the issue here, some folks are coming here and saying "ridge sux. ridge sux. ford/chevy rock. ford/chevy rock." OVER and OVER and OVER again. And when the obvious explanation comes out that they are competitors, the answer that comes across is "ridge sux. ridge sux." It really is quite sad.
Better yet, coming on and saying "i checked out the vehicle in this topic and i found it didn't fit my needs because of X, Y, and Z. The manufacturer would be better served if they changed P, Q, and R." etc. etc. That is simply the difference between being constructive or destructive.
You effectively did come out and say "ridge owners do nothing but plant flowers and lay mulch" in a Ridge discussion. That's like me going to the Ford or Chevy board and saying "i bought a ridge because i'm not a toothless nascar-lovin redneck." I mean, honestly, where is the difference?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
If you would like to help in getting this forum off the ground, please join in.
It can be found in the "pickups" forums, or when looking for Ridgeline, Tacoma, and Nissan Frontier. I hope to get links from the Dodge and GMC pages added soon.
Thanks,
thegrad
Quote: "I have some low traction action under my belt now. Here's my comments".
TB
Honda's literature states (follow the asterisks) 500lbs. of its "half-ton" MUST BE IN THE CAB!
That's a requirement no other "truck" requires.
:mad:
It's called "domestic disease," and it's usually terminal. Symptoms are delusions of supremacy, followed by endless ranting. This sickness is a close relative of "mine is bigger than yours disease," which is also usually terminal.
The only known cure is buying a "foreign" brand, but for best results, buy something Japanese.
Bob
ridgelines strut problems that occured in Edmunds
test vehicle (blew out ALL 4) or other strut
problems posted at the "other" ridgelineownersclub forum..........
Some of you folks just have to stop posting negative
untruths too................... :P
"Good luck on this one now"
kcram - Pickups Host
That basically means to me that a Ridgeline can still haul the weight stated, but not as much over the rear axle. I wonder if that's got anything to do with the IRS?
As to when you said: "You effectively did come out and say "ridge owners do nothing but plant flowers and lay mulch" in a Ridge discussion"--I did not say that. If you read back through this thread, you will see that it was RL advocates who said that Honda was not marketing the RL to users who have heavy duty uses or in the construction field. It is marketed for Joe Homeowner and they have lower hauling needs.
One last thing here, to the guy who actually owns a Ridgeline and thinks the looks of disgust from American truck owners is a look of defeat knowing that Honda has built a better truck and now American trucks are all dinosaurs: If you have to think that to feel okay about your truck, then go ahead. I can assure you that you are mistaken, however.