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You guys also mentioned that 3.0 has better lease deal. I know 3.0 has more standard options. are those lease rates different between 3.0 and 2.5?
Thanks.
You can still trade-in, and get the tax credit without putting the money down on the lease.. Just ask them to cut you a check for your car on trade-in, then write them a check for the upfront cost of the lease...
The lease rates are better on the 3.0 model.. It isn't just the higher level of equipment..
regards,
kyfdx
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Thanks.
Is there truly a tax credit on trade-ins? Or are they just saying the tax on the payment will be less, if you use your trade-in for a big downpayment?
Because, if it is the latter, most states that tax the lease payment, also tax any downpayment you make on the lease.. So, it would be a wash..
Making large downpayments on leases is never a good idea... Too many things can happen.. and almost all of them are negative.. If the only way to get the tax credit is to put all of the trade-in allowance on the lease, I'd just forego that credit..
regards,
kyfdx
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sunroof
heated front seats
foglights
MSRP: 33,100
Negotiated: 30,592
Money fact: .00215
Residual: 59%
Term: 36 mos.
12K miles
$415/mo
$1800 due at signing
What I would really like is to be at 1400 due at signing and 400/mo. Am I crazy? Will BMW finance lower the money factor to at least hit the 400/mo?
Thanks!
2) They are marking up the money factor the maximum .0004 and also bumping it .00015 to account for no security deposit..
3) Not sure how your $1800 upfront breaks down.. I'm guessing $415 1st pymt, $825 acquisition fee (marked up $200).. That leaves $560.. No security deposit, so is that tax? Bogus dealer fees? The $415/mo. can't include taxes, so that has to be somewhere... unless they are adding into your payment? Did they say $415/mo.+tax..
Should look like this..
$33,100 MSRP
$30,592 Selling price
$31,217 Cap cost (selling price + $625 acq.fee)
3yr/36K lease
Residual 59%
Money factor .0016 (base rate)
Payment $406/mo.+ tax
Due at signing: 1st payment, security deposit.. title, license, etc.. (approx. $1000-$1200)
regards,
kyfdx
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-Negotiated price $36,300 (I think this is too high)
-Term 12K/36months
-MF .00155 (Is this the current May rate from BMWFS or is it marked up by dealer?)
-Residual 60%
-Acq fee $750 (should be $625)
-Lic fee/title fee/state insp fee/vehicle inv. fee/doc fee $272.30
-State sales tax $2268.75
-Total due at signing including 1st month payment, all fees, sales tax around $3300
-Total monthly payment $494
**Please critique this deal!! I will probably try to get dealer down to $35,000 on price, and ask for whatever BMFS rate is for MF, if the one they offered is not the same.
2) Selling price stinks.. even at this low an MSRP, about $1000 too high..
3) Base MF is .0010.. they are marking it up the maximum, plus adding on for security deposit waiver..
4) You are right about the acq.fee..
5) The residual is 61%
If you assume a selling price of $35K, use the base money factor and residual of .0010 and 61%.. Roll the taxes and the $625 acq.fee into the payment, you get a payment of $485/mo... With just 1st payment and fee of $272.30 and security deposit due at signing.. (Approx. $1260 total)
Hope this helps..
kyfdx
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This is the first time I'm leasing a car. So I'm not very clear of the tax caculation here either. The dealer told me the tax is caculated on the monthly payment. So if I trade in my old car, my monthly payment would be smaller so I pay less tax. This how I understand. As you pointed out, putting down a huge down payment is not a good idea in leasing. I was just a little bit confused of your last post of "tade in but get credit withough putting the money down."
Thanks again for your help.
Did the deal tonight and actually got what I wanted.
We ordered the car and the deal was as follows:
$1480 due at signing (1st months, tax & tags)
400.00/month
36 months
12K miles/yr
Thanks again for the input...
In other words, the state isn't going to be screwed out of $800, because you decide to make a $10K downpayment on a lease... They will also tax that $10K downpayment..
This is kind of a separate issue from getting a tax credit for trading a car in..
And, not being from Washington, I can't say exactly how it works there... But, whether you use all of the proceeds from your trade-in as a downpayment, or whether they cut you a check for the amount, and you put nothing down... shouldn't affect the total sales tax that you pay.
regards,
kyfdx
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Now, you just have to wait...
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In Ohio we have to pay the TAX UP FRONT -- some states allow the addition of tax on a monthly basis, here we just pony up the full amount at the time of the inception of the lease. I guess you could rationalize this and pay the sales tax as a "down payment," rather than rolling it into the lease.
Pay now or pay later. Sometimes paying later means paying more dearly. Don't know the rules in Wa., though.
Ultimately leasing is nothing more than a way to borrow money (often subvented) and pay for the depreciation of a vehicle. Theoretically a subvented lease (low money factors and high residuals courtesy of the finance arm of the mfg.) is a pretty good way to use a car for up to 39 months (or less) and not have to put up with the plummeting "equity" situation when you are ready for the next vehicle.
Of course if you can buy a car at 0% interest and keep it until it is "dead," that would be (in theory) the best of all possible worlds. What does dead mean, then becomes the question.
My neighbor routinely puts $5,000 in "maintenance" into his 1997 Chevy Suburban every year. I often wondered what it would cost to have a "permanent" lease payment of about $400 per month instead (or what would he get, instead, perhaps better said). It would seem that a newer tech vehicle might also carry with it some economy, safety and comfort features that this 8 year old baby cannot compete with.
"Yeah, but I don't have a car payment," says he. Then the entire ABS system goes south, new brakes, tires and an alignment come due and then 6 months later the A/C goes south and several power window motors go on the fritz -- explain again how you have no car payment?
Me, I like the current "gizmos" that cars come with -- so keeping a car more than 3 model years is "not very interesting."
The Dealer quoted me $37,830 on a X3 3.0I
Edmunds shows TMV = $40,819 and MSRP = $41,720
MSRP = $40,445
Silver Gray Metallic
Black Leather
Cold Weather package
Premium Package
Automatic Transmission
Satellite Radio Prep and Privacy glass
What do you think?
Is it $41,720 or $40,445?
If the MSRP is $40,445 and they are offering $37830, that is a good deal..
If the MSRP is $41,720 and they are offering $37,830, what are you doing here? Get down there and buy it!!
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Jet Black/Terracotta Leather
Premium Pkg
Auto Trans
Xenon Headlights
Privacy Glass
Satellite Radio Prep
MSRP$40,020
Sale Price $37,650
Invoice $36,670
Drives like a sports car. xDrive is incredible. Xenon headlights swivel to light your path. Plenty of power...can't imagine how it will drive when they start putting the 255hp 3 liter engine in it.
Got this quote from a dealer for one X3 in his lot. Valid till 31st May.Any suggestions on wether this is a good deal and what I should try to negotiate with the dealer. Seems like a good deal to me.Was giving this as his final offer when I was walking out.Downpayment can be adjusted and am planning a 2500 down.Thanks in advance.
MSRP:43545
--------------------------------
GRS CAP Cost:42500(including lease aqn fee of 825)
Sales Tax:0
LAH Premium 0.00
Cap Reduction:3982.08
----------------------------------
Net Cap Cost:38562.92
Adj Residual:26997.90
Total term dep:11565.02
Monthly Dep:321.25
MO Lease CHG:78.67
---------------------------------
Base Payment:399.92
MO Tax:0
MO prop tax: 0
-----------------------------
Total MO PYMT:399.92
Tot of payments:14397.12
Est fees/TERM:394
Tot taxes: 0
Life Prem:0
Lev Prem:0
A&H Prem:0
IUI Prem:0
1st Pymt:399.92
Cap Red: 3982.08
Sls tax upfnt:0
1st Year fees:168
Sec Dep:400
Other upfnt:50
-----------------------
Tot Init Pymt:5000
Due on Del: 5000
Term 36 Mo at 10K miles annually
Can anyone tell me if they opted for the aero kit or even seen one. I want to know if it looks to pimped out or does it add a masculine look to the car? It drove awesome, but then again it is a BMW.
djocks
2) I always recommend never making a cap cost reduction.. you can read back through the thread to see why..
3) Your purchase price of $41,675 is decent..about $1900 off MSRP... not the lowest I've seen, but fair..
4) The dealer is marking up the acq.fee ($625 base) and the money factor (using .0012, base is .0010). If he dropped those two figures back to the base numbers, the payment would drop to $381.06/mo., with about $4982 due at signing.
If it were me....
NO cap cost reduction
Base MF .0010
Base acq.fee $625
Net cap cost $42,300 (selling price + acq.fee)
Payment $495/mo.+ tax.
Due at signing: 1st pymt, security deposit, $218 misc.fees (from your numbers).. Total due: Approx. $1215.
One other note.. I don't see any provision for sales tax in these numbers.. Are you paying that upfront? If so, that would be even more due at signing.. Or, it would have to be rolled into the payment (my choice).
regards,
kyfdx
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Jet Black/Black leather
Automatic
Premium Package
Cold Weather
Heated Steering Wheel
Privacy Glass
Sat Radio Prep
MSRP: 40,120
Negotiated Price: 37,125 (before any cap cost reduction)
Cap cost reduction: $300
MF .00100 (they started at .00140 and I said no way)
Residual 61%
Acq fee: $900 (it's New York- non-negotiable)
3 years/12k
Up front: $3500 (tax, title, acq fees, other fees, and about $300 cap cost reduction, just to get to an even $3500 out of pocket)
Monthly Payment: $404
I was a little surprised to negotiate nearly $3000 off of MSRP, but this is a great time to deal on this vehicle. The dealer was very pleasant and professional. I am looking forward to picking it up tomorrow! Good luck if you are looking to get one.
One question. How did you calculate the money factor?
There is no sales tax in Oregon.
Thanks,
Muni
Fantastic selling price..
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You have to like the "no sales tax" thing...
regards,
kyfdx
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Hopefully the sales price will help others in the forum on their deals. I have found that sales folks, when faced with customers who understand leasing and what types of deals folks are getting across the country, tend to either be jerks or be much more cooperative- depends on how willing they are to deal. For what it is worth, here was my strategy: I ran numbers on a lease calculator so I knew what range payments should be based on my price targets and the residual, etc. (I have seen some dealers mysteriously end up 20-40 bucks higher per month with the same numbers). I waited until the end of the month to do it. Then I came in and asked for $37,000. I quoted the .00100 from this forum and the Leasing Questions forum, told them that I knew there was about a $700 holdback, and told them I saw deals better than $2000 off of MSRP on various forums- and even one who says he got below invoice (that person did not give any other specifics on that deal). I also reminded them that when the BMW lease support dries up this summer (it usually does for all manufacturers) and the more powerful engine comes in the fall, they may be stuck with what is on the lot now (they had 15-20 X3's- best to deal on an overstocked vehicle). 15 minutes later the deal was done at $37,125. That is about $365 over Edmunds invoice, $215 over the dealer's stated invoice. Makes me wonder if I could have squeezed a bit more, but it was a pleasant experience and I got my target price, so I decided why be greedy...
The above circumstances (end of month, lease support may go, overstocked, new engine in the fall) really make this a great time to deal on this car.... I hope this helps others.
By the way, kyfdx, thanks for your posts on this board. I don't know if you are a host or just helpful, but you've given a lot of good advice. These forums are really a powerful information tool for consumers. You can actually see a sales managers face drop as soon as you reference Edmunds' forums....
Thanks
So, let's say there is a $2000 dealer incentive on a car. If you bought at invoice, they make at least $2000. When there is such an incentive, you can often get such a car under invoice. Depending on the car, a dealer will often settle for making $300-$1500 bucks (for premium brands). A hot car will sell close to MSRP and they will make thousands, a slower seller will sell closer to or even under invoice.
On an X3, the MSRP is around $3200-$3400 over invoice. There is no dealer incentive, and about a $700 holdback, I think. You should negotiate from the invoice price, and based on this forum, it seems that anything from $200-$1200 over invoice (or $2000-$3000 under MSRP) is a pretty good deal. You should get one on the lower end of that scale as the 2006's get closer and, especially, if the dealer has a lot of them on the lot. My earlier entry describes the approach I took.
By the way, make sure you test drive the Sport package. This is a firm riding car, and a lot of folks find the Sport package uncomfortably firm. I find the handling without Sport to be stellar as it is...
Hope that helps, and good luck.
BMW No holdback
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The dealer made me an offer on a 05 X3 2.5 that is the base model, automatic, panoramic sunroof everything else is just base. I offer to put down 3,000 dls on this lease which I think it was a mistake to offer this much down, I was trying to solve the problem of not having high monthly payments... monthly lease is for $389.00 plus California Tax which comes out to $ 421.00 a month.
Is this any good?
2) Is the $3000 a downpayment (cap cost reduction)? Or does that include all of your upfront charges... meaning: Do you write a check for $3000, or is $3000 + acq.fee + 1st pymt + security deposit?
3) What is the MSRP? I show $33,620 for a car equipped like you say, but you might have metallic paint or other options..
Need this info to calculate a lease...
regards,
kyfdx
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1.This is a 36 month lease with 15,000 K a year
2. Yes the 3000 is for everything aquisition fee, first payment and security deposit.
3. I am actually getting the X3 3.0 the M.S.R.P is 37,345 I am getting the panoramic sunroof and automatic. Color will be white or black.
I have negotiated this deal to 410 a month (including Caliornia tax)
Is this a good deal?
THANK YOU!!!
Shopping around I got offered the BMW X3 3.0 for 410 a month. Here is the data you asked me to give you:
It is a 36 month lease and 15,000 miles per year
The M.S.R.P is 37,345.
The 3,000 payment will be for everything acquisition fee, first month payment and security deposit.
I am getting a black or white X3 3.0 Automatic, Panoramic sunroof and "floor mats included".
The monthly payments I have negotiated them down to 410 a month including California Tax.
What do you think?
Not knowing the exact breakdown of the $3000, it still looks good.. Maybe $2400 off MSRP and base rates on the lease..
The only thing that I would do differently? I would only pay $1000 at signing.. The other $2000 can be rolled into the cap cost..
That would raise the payment up to $470-$475/mo. tax included.. Better to have that money in the bank, than use it to lower the payment..
regards,
kyfdx
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I just got my BMW X3 3.0 yesterday. I think I am proud of the deal that I made, with a lot of negotiation I got my payment down to $371 a month ($407 with the tax which is 3 dlls off from the last quote I said to you, but hey, 3 dlls add up~!). I am getting 15,000 miles a year, and I couldn't be happier.
I do understand about the 3,000 and having that money make money in the bank, I ended up paying this with a credit card that gives a percentage of what I spend back and this calculating it all will be better that the interest rates I am getting at my bank!
Since I already had the money in my account, I will use the money that I have to pay the credit card fully and not pay any interest!
The car is a dream to drive, so smooth and powerful, you really do feel like you are in a little sports car. The Panoramic sunroof is awesome too...This is my first car!
If it wasn't for all the advice you give on this website and all the awesome input from all the wonderful and smart people that posted their experiences here, this would not have happened.
Base Vehicle
2005 BMW X3 2.5i AWD 4dr SUV (2.5L 6cyl 6M) $30,300
Optional Equipment
Packages and Powertrain Powertrain
[205] STEPTRONIC 5-Speed Automatic Transmission $1,275
Options
Exterior Features
[--] Metallic Paint $475
[402] Power Glass Panorama Roof $1,350
Interior Features
[438] Maple Sycamore Dark Wood Trim $500
[459] Power Front Seats w/ Driver Memory $995
Colors
Exterior Color: [A08] Silver Grey Metallic
Interior Color: Black
Optional Equipment Subtotal $4,595
Destination $695
MSRP Total Price $35,590
Offered Price $31,055
invoice $36650
dealer $38410
Edmunds TMV $38763 for my region
Can I get a better deal? or do I have to pay appx. 5% over invoice because of factory order.
Regards
Is this a specific car that they have on the lot? If so, it might be a service loaner or demo...
regards,
kyfdx
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Can you do better with this dealer? You won't know until you make a lower offer and they either accept or reject.
Can you do better with another dealer? Possibly.. maybe $500-$800 better at best, though..
90 days seems like a long time to get an X3.. I thought they switched over model years in August? Seems like your car should be here sooner than that.. Maybe they are trying not to over-promise on the delivery time.. Most people get their car within 60 days..
regards,
kyfdx
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But, that is a fairly low optioned/low priced X3.. With the better leasing deals on the 3.0 model, they may just be motivated to move a car, that they think they'll have trouble selling..
If you were leasing, you'd probably take an X3 3.0 that MSRPed for $4K more for the same monthly payment.. and, they probably lease more X3s than they sell..
But, since you are buying... maybe you've just stumbled onto a great deal..
Watch out for dealer prep, document fees, advertising fees, etc.. If they have offered you the car at that price, agree to it, then insist on it.. Nothing should be added but tax, registration, etc.. I'm not averse to an extra hundred somewhere along the line, but anything more than that is too much... Don't forget about floormats!!
regards,
kyfdx
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Thanks
thanks,
Residuals actually went up from last month..
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Thanks.