Luxury Performance Sedans

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Comments

  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    I'm not sure I want all that power going through the front wheels in the SS. Matter of fact I'm sure I don't. Nothing like making a pig handle worse than can be imagined.
    I would stick with the Taurus like LG recommended. Gm products are worth about as much as a dirty diaper in your left hand.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    If you like the look the dodge charger could be a player. RWD or AWD. Big discounts on new ones. Nice size but visibility issues.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    I've done some quick research on the Impala, and probably the only one I would consider is the SS model.

    I am also considering the LS430 - looks like you can get a decent 2007 model for my price range.


    I wouldn't recommend the Impala SS. GM did some lazy engineering to try and deal with the torque steer and handling problems, but none of it really worked and its a generally lousy car. It has none of the tricks of say, a Focus RS to deal with big power to the front wheels. If for whatever reason you want something GM, a Pontiac G8 would be an infinitely better choice than the Impala.

    2007 is the first year of the current LS460. In my area they are available for $37K or so with 30-40K miles, which is actually a pretty good deal. It's a lot of car for the money, certainly much more so than any new Hyundai Genesis for similar cash, and it makes the Impala look like a Stanley Steamer by comparison.

    The tech in the LS460 is as up to date as just about anything you can buy right now, with the exception of uber-tech cars like the S-class, or the latest Audi A8. I prefer the touch screen system it uses to the silly mouse system in the latest RX350.

    If $37K isn't too much, (and there may be some deals to be had for less) the 460 is definitely a better choice than an old gen 2006 LS430.

    I owned a '96 LS400, and an '01 LS430. I put over 150K miles on both, and they were about as trouble free as you could ask for. The LS is not a car that makes you want to seek out that winding road. Its job is to make your journey as comfortable and relaxing as possible, and its very good at what it does. If you're stuck in traffic, there is no better place to be.

    The only reason I'm not still driving one is that I'm doing a lot less long highway trips now, and I wanted something capable of stirring the blood up a bit so I bought an Audi S6.

    I think the LS is the best car Lexus makes, and I would highly recommend a test drive.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    They are selling 2010 Azeras with nav---2k miles for 24k. Drove one and it was plenty quick and semi-luxurious inside.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaMember Posts: 8,212
    edited May 2010
    I would second the motion for the LS. By all means take a test drive. I actually still prefer the last model year of the LS 430 (06). It just seems to be the perfect size for me.

    You should be able to find a certified 06 LS 430 with relatively low miles for around $30,000. or maybe less. Being certified gives you 3 more years of warranty or up to 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. This warranty is from Lexus and is virtually the same as the new car warranty.

    Unbeatable highway cruiser and very comfortable around town. I would not call it a performance sedan, more toward the luxury side, but it is very capable.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • ghstudioghstudio Member Posts: 972
    Remember the OP was wary of getting a used Infinti M35 because his boss drives one. I wonder what his boss will think when the OP drives up in his LS 4xx?

    Now, about that raise you wanted.......

    :):)
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    edited May 2010
    Remember the OP was wary of getting a used Infinti M35 because his boss drives one. I wonder what his boss will think when the OP drives up in his LS 4xx?

    Now, about that raise you wanted.......


    Yeah, that's what led me to suggest the Taurus as a possible alternative. I don't think showing up with a Lexus LS would be nearly as bad as say, an S-class or 7 series, or arguably even an E or 5, but it still might be an issue.

    Another possibility that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Lincoln MKS. Like all Lincolns its a little bit nicer than the Ford (Taurus in this case), and its retail premium is in no way justified. Fortunately the market corrects Fords pricing optimism in a hurry. An '09 MKS can be had around here for $25K. The Lincoln badge carries about as much weight as a Volvo or Saab, and shouldn't offend anyone with an Infiniti.
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    Everyone - thanks so much for the responses. The discussion is really making me think about what I need and helping me refine things.

    As I think about this, my requirements are:
    1. Luxury/near luxury car
    2. Some sporting feel. Even though I will be driving to/from work 90% of the time, every now and then I would like to be able to have a little bit of fun.
    3. Ability to carry 3 kids - ages 5,5 and 8
    4. Ability to fit 3 kids worth of stuff in the trunk
    5. I will probably keep the car for 6 years, so it needs to be somewhat reliable. Extended warranty is a must.
    6. Since I am keeping for so long, needs to have decent technology.

    I was considering the Pontiac G8, but I think it fails on points 5 and 6.
    I think the 2006 Lexus LS fails on points 2 and somewhat 6.
    I think a 2007 Lexus LS fails on point 2 only but is probably out of my price range.
    I think a 2009 Genesis 3.6 hits on all points.
    I think a 2010 Ford Taurus hits on all points if in SHO trim.
    I think a 2008 Infiniti M35 hits on all points except points 3 and 4, especially as they get older.
    I think a 2009 Lincoln MKS hits on all points other than point 2.

    So, am I really settled in on the 2009 Genesis, 2010 Taurus SHO, or 2009 MKS?

    I've never had a car for more than 4 years (all from new), so this will be my first used purchase that I will keep for 6 years.

    Thanks Again - and please keep the feedback coming.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    So, am I really settled in on the 2009 Genesis, 2010 Taurus SHO, or 2009 MKS?

    It sounds like you're starting to get a handle on what you want, so now you should spend the time to really get a feel for each car. If it's possible, try to drive them all on the same roads.

    One very important note about the Genesis: its top safety pick award from the IIHS applies only to cars built January 2009 and after. You should avoid any '09 Genesis built in '08. They didn't do so well in their frontal crash test. Both the Taurus and the MKS aced their tests, so there's nothing to worry about there.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    Before purchasing any Hyundai product, take it for a long trip over various types of road surfaces. Biggest complaints about Genesis and Azera is the ride quality. Probably not a bad idea for any car, but especially Hyundai.
    Try to drive it without a sales rep in car.
    Voice of experience.
  • m4mm4m Member Posts: 76
    edited May 2010
    I think a 2008 Infiniti M35 hits on all points except points 3 and 4, especially as they get older.

    4. Ability to fit 3 kids worth of stuff in the trunk

    You'll have plenty of room to move in Infiniti M35. Rear headroom (inches): 37.8, rear hip room (inches): 53.9, rear leg room (inches): 37.3, rear shoulder room (inches): 56.9 and interior volume (cu ft): 105.2 It also features a very respectable 14.9 cubic feet of luggage capacity in its trunk space. Its 20-gallon fuel tank will allow you to travel an easy 350 miles before needing filled again. Make no mistake about it: price point considered, the M35 will stack up nicely against just about any vehicle

    5. I will probably keep the car for 6 years, so it needs to be somewhat reliable. Extended warranty is a must.

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2009/autos/0910/gallery.consumer_reports_most_rel- - - - iable_cars/4.html

    HTH
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,133
    edited May 2010
    "5. I will probably keep the car for 6 years, so it needs to be somewhat reliable. Extended warranty is a must.
    6. Since I am keeping for so long, needs to have decent technology.

    I was considering the Pontiac G8, but I think it fails on points 5 and 6."

    If you could find a used 2009 G8 GT, with less than 36,000 miles
    [ like mine ]
    you could substantially extend the wty with GMPP.
    Not sure what you mean here by 'decent technology',,,?
    - Ray
    Very pleased with my G8 GT - so far...
    2020 BMW M340i
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    I have been very interested in the G8. But to points:

    5. I am thinking that parts/expertise will be hard to come by in a few years with this car. So having an extended warranty might not be too helpful. This is probably overstated, but a concern I have nonetheless.

    6. What I mean by decent technology is up to date electronics like the Sync system and a modern Nav (should I decide to get it). I also mean nice creature comforts like backup camera/cooled seats/backup sensors/etc. I don't think the G8 has this.

    But what the G8 does have is a nice sized back seat and trunk, nice ergonomics, and by far the sportiest ride of any of the other cars I am considering (save perhaps the M35).

    Help me get over my perceived negatives on points 5 and 6!
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    edited June 2010
    ... Help me get over my perceived negatives on points 5 and 6!

    [grabs you by the shoulders and give you a good shake and a slap, 1940's style]
    Get over it!
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    That was easy - just put in a bid on ebay for a G8 :) !
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    Re: Genesis. Make sure you take it on long drives over various road surfaces. Lots of complaints about the ride/suspension.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    Same advice on Azera as on Genesis. You really need to test the ride/suspension. If you get a used one, make sure it was not a "buy back" and they are out there.
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    Thanks - will do so. I should get the opportunity this Thursday - will come back with a report then.
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    Thanks for the info - I was not aware of the same situation with the Azera.
  • m4mm4m Member Posts: 76
    edited June 2010
    Nissan North America Inc. has taken legal steps to create a performance segment for its Infiniti Division product line, similar to its larger luxury rivals Mercedes-Benz and BMW.

    Nissan has filed for trademark protection for the names "IPL" and "Infiniti Performance Line," according to documents on file with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office. According to the applications, the IPL trademark would cover the brand's use of "high-performance motor vehicle parts," including turbochargers and superchargers for engines, cat-back exhaust and muffler systems, shifter knobs, suspension parts, brakes, sports seats and off-road headlights. A spokesman at Infiniti's North American headquarters in Franklin, Tenn., declined to discuss the trademark filings or the brand's product plans. This month in Louisville, Ky., the vice president of the Infiniti Business Unit, Ben Poore, told reporters that he intends to reveal a new performance-oriented offering this summer. He did not elaborate.

    we will find out on 8/11 in Pebble beach:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/24/infiniti-performance-line-ipl-is-coming-this-- year/
  • m4mm4m Member Posts: 76
    First drive: Infiniti M30d saloon

    http://www.fleetnews.co.uk/cars/revi...-saloon/36621/

    I wonder if we'll ever see this engine in the U. S.?
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZMember Posts: 5,166
    edited July 2010
    I wonder if we'll ever see this engine in the U. S.?

    Seriously?

    Of course not.

    CARB has seen to it that none of the wonderful diesels that Europe and the rest of the world have been enjoying for well over ten years will never be sold here, besides which the EPA registration paperwork jungle for each and every engine/drivertrain configuration is onerous enough to discourage most primes from marketing anything but that which sells in large numbers. Diesels don't fit that model.

    VW has taken the plunge and they're selling TDIs hand over fist, but they're pretty much alone.

    Sad. :sick:
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    VW has taken the plunge and they're selling TDIs hand over fist, but they're pretty much alone.

    Not exactly. There is the 335d, and all of the Germans offer diesels in their SUVs. Audi has been surprised at the success of the A3 TDi, and hopefully that will push them to offer more of their diesels here. I'd much rather have an A4 3.0TDi than the 2.0T gas engine.
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    I was told at the NYC autoshow that the 530d GT will come to the US in 2011. Here's hoping...I'm hoping for the x-drive version and will order one when it becomes available.
  • famof3kidsfamof3kids Member Posts: 160
    Any updates on your search? I like your list as it is close to mine as well.
    I'm down to a 08/09 Infiniti M35X, or a new Taurus SHO.
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    Right now, I would say I am leaning towards a Taurus SHO or Genesis 3.6, both (slightly) used.

    I need more room in the backseat due to 3 kids than the M35 provides.

    I'll keep you posted as I get closer to decision time.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    When buying slightly used cars, be sure you don't pay more than a new one with rebates/finance deals. Very common issue currently.
  • jjacurajjacura Member Posts: 808
    In 2005 this forum was one of the best reads on Edmunds. I see Lexusguy and MarkCincinnati still contribute and that's a good thing. Just wanted to mention that my 2005 RL has been a great ride. Hopefully a year from now the 2012 RL Flagship gets Acura back into the frey with something special to talk about.
    Enjoy the summer.
    JJAcura
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Which Lexus is closest in size to the Avalon ?
  • vigorlovervigorlover Member Posts: 40
    Avalon is on a stretched Camry platform, so probably ES which is also on the Camry platform would be the closest. Avalon has more interior room than any but the LS.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    I come here from time to time, but the, er, attendance, is way down here. Perhaps it is because there aren't enough NEW models to merit discussion; or, perhaps, worse, "it's the economy stupid."

    You know, though, my $53,286 MSRP A6 (2005) went for the same monthly lease for the same term as my ~$49K MSRP A4 (2009) -- all this during a time when the Fed cut rates to nearly 0%!

    You know, I love my 2009 A4 and it is a better PERFORMING car than the outgoing 2005 A6. But, tho I live in a BIG TOWN (or small city, Cincinnati), I just can't really use the performance the Audi offers.

    Now, then, this revoltin' set of circumstances makes me wonder what in the wide wide world of sports to do next.

    The CTS(4) with the HO V6 seems like a reasonable alternative (and with a better warranty and lower payments and just as much content and still more performance than can be used (legally or illegally on the hiways and byways around and in Cincinnapolis.) Heck, even the rumored Buick Regal GS looks like it is worth a test drive (assuming it is the one with the HO I4 and AWD.) Again at a better bang for the buck (considering the real pot-hole riddled world I live in here in perpetually in economic recession Ohio), too.

    So my buddy trades in a 5 series for a V8 Genesis and loves it (but for me, I say na baby na, no RWD need apply.) Wow lotsa car for little money and good warranty and great lease deals -- what could it hurt (if I am willling to forgo AWD, which I am NOT!)

    So my wife's buddy trades in the C class for an Infiniti G37XS -- after so wanting another Merc, or BMW or Audi A4 -- but she says, the Infiniti is zippier than all of them for a decent 3 figure per month $ amount less on the lease and with higher content to boot.

    Loyalty is a [non-permissible content removed], sometimes. :shades:
  • twinbtwinb Member Posts: 140
    That's right. Additionally, the view out the pass side rear window is better in the Avalon.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    You know, I love my 2009 A4 and it is a better PERFORMING car than the outgoing 2005 A6. But, tho I live in a BIG TOWN (or small city, Cincinnati), I just can't really use the performance the Audi offers.

    Imagine how I feel with 10 cylinders, and no autobahn to use them on.

    I think my pick for the entry-lux segment is still the S4, although Infiniti has done a nice job with the G's reskin and its I think better looking than the slightly weird M. The CTS just has never done it for me, I'm not sure why. I like it better than the hideous and cheap TL, but even the C-class I think is better looking.

    I can't get past what the Buick brand stands for. It's like Lincoln, you can make a cool, sexy state of the art Buick or Lincoln, but the brand really can't catch up to the product.

    As much as I like the S4 though, it's still just a bit small, and the interior cost cutting I think is just a bit too obvious compared to the B6-B7 A4.

    Infiniti has shown their cards and they've done a pretty incredible job with the new M. I like it, but I don't love it. The new 5 is nice, particularly on the inside, but the fact that it seems to be basically a shrunken 7 with a boring driving experience and numb electric steering is a big turn off. That basically leaves Audi and the A6 and A7, one of which is likely to be my next car. I'm very interested in the A7 reveal which is supposed to be soon, as well as what Audi comes up with for the 2012 A6. The fact that the current car took down the brand new 5 and M in Car and Driver is pretty incredible.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    Good to see you in here. I just gave back my 335 lease. It was simply the best car I've ever had. I'm a poor student so I'm driving an old beater now. Someday I'm hoping to be able to get in to a pre-owned Cayman S.
    Don't know if your a motorcycle guy but I'm seriously tempted by the new Ducati baby monster, Yummy!!!!
  • jtlajtla Member Posts: 386
    Agreed with Jayrider. Also note that the Hyundai’s 10-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty is non-transferable to used-car owners; it apply to the original owner only. The second and subsequent owners have a 5-year/60,000-mile warranty from the manufacturing date. So, if you consider slightly-used Genesis, you may as well get a new one.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    Based on some reviews, JD Powers IQS, True Delta, US News, etc., Genesis is not the stellar car some think it is. While it does offer a lot for the money, it does have some limitiations.
    BTW, the warranty really doesn't matter if when you take the car in, the dealer says unable to duplicate problem or that's the way the car is designed. Live with it.
    Before purchasing a Genesis, or any car, take it on a long test drive over various road surfaces - and tell the salesman to keep his mouth shut.
    US News Reviews and Reports Automotive site has some very good information on new cars. MB E Class ranks number one in its class.
    Incidentally, the Genesis is not and never will be a Luxury car, just as the Chevy Caprice, AMC Ambassador, etc. never were.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    edited July 2010
    Genesis is not the stellar car some think it is. While it does offer a lot for the money, it does have some limitiations.

    Most of what I've heard are complaints about less than stellar ride quality. The Genesis isn't bad looking, but the interior design reminds me of my old '01 LS430, only its not as good.

    As for the E, I don't think its that great. It's a bland drive, and it can't match the new 5 series at pretty much everything.
  • carolinabobcarolinabob Member Posts: 576
    It really is a matter of personal taste. I considered E, 5 Series and GS and LS before deciding on the E350.
    IMO, the E class is between the LS for luxury and amenities and the 5 series for performance. Best combination of both worlds.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    IMO, the E class is between the LS for luxury and amenities and the 5 series for performance. Best combination of both worlds.

    That makes sense. Actually the one area where the new 5 seems to be a disappointment compared to its predecessor is performance. It's heavier, and while the N55 is a more advanced engine than the N54 in the old 535i, it hasn't made the car any faster. The biggest complaints seem to be about the new electric steering system, which apparently suffers from the same numbness and lack of feel as most other electric systems. Not what you expect from the "ultimate driving machine" company.

    I'm most interested in the upcoming 2012 A6. Audi has gotten very good lately at offering performance on the same level as BMW or Infiniti, while still leading the luxury industry in design and technology.

    The area where the current A6 is weakest is probably the center stack layout. It was their first attempt to break from the "classic" Audi interior layout, and it seems a bit flat and dull compared to the more stylized followups in the A4, A5, and Q5. The 5 and M both bring huge interior improvements compared to their predecessors, and if Audi can do the same the A6 should really be something special.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    The A7 is everything the Panamera isn't. Sleek, gorgeous, amazing. It makes the new XJ look like a stick of butter. Awesome job by Audi.

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  • m4mm4m Member Posts: 76
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    Ok - I recently test drove a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the X option package. Am I crazy in considering this? It was pretty impressive. Fit/finish was excellent. Sound system was pretty good too. Had remote start, leather, back-up camera, etc for $35k. It drove nicely and kind of sporty (took an off ramp at about 2x the posted speed with no problems), and merged onto the highway to 80 MPH easily. Overall, a nice ride.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWMember Posts: 3,166
    Okay, well how's it going to hold up; i.e., will interior parts fall off? And is its poor mpg going to bleed you slowly?
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 355
    I don't know how well the interior parts will hold up. I will say that they appear to be of high quality and put together with precision. The interior upon inspection seems to me to be equal to the Genesis, better than the Taurus, equal to the older Infiniti.

    I have only seen a glimpse of the Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland, and that interior is stunning. It compares with Range Rover for about $20k less. It might not be 100% equal, but it is definitely not $20k less nice1

    I am not too concerned with MPG - I only drive about 12k miles/year. So a few MPG's aren't going to kill me one way or another.

    I did receive a lease quote on a $35k Laredo X - $35.5k MSRP. 12k/miles/yr, 36 month, no money out of pocket (meaning no cap cost, all fees including dealer and acquisition fee rolled into lease) for $510/mo including the 7% sales tax. I have not shopped lease payments with other cars and am unsure how that stacks up.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Ok - I recently test drove a 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the X option package. Am I crazy in considering this?

    From what I've seen, the materials quality is a huge improvement over the typical abysmal Chrysler standards. Reliability is a giant question market though. Chrysler isn't exactly setting the CR charts afire.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
    Actually, they probably are... in their offices and in their homes, out of frustration at so many poor ratings. :)

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  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,132
    A reporter is hoping to talk with a new Mercedes C-Class owner, as well as anyone who recently bought a new Mercedes after having owned Lexus models in the past. Thanks for sending your contact information to [email protected] no later than Tuesday, October 12, 2010.
    Thanks,
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    Corporate Communications
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  • billodbillod Member Posts: 31
    Looking for some suggestions here. I have driven several (5 or 6) used 2006 & 2007 A6 quattro sedans with low mileage and they all vibrate on the highway. The salespeople all agreed that there were vibrations. Rebalancing the tires did not solve any of the problems. One salesman said what I was feeling was the quattro sensation. To me, that was BS. Is there something going on with these late model A6 quattro's that I am unaware of? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Bill
  • james27james27 Member Posts: 433
    Balancing the tires is important (on any car), but on an all-wheel drive car, the tread pattern matching, and the tread depth is also quite important. Audi (and most all-wheel drive vehicles) have some tight tolerances on the differences in tread depth between ALL four tires. If, say, they replace one or several, or if the tread patterns don't match, all bets are off. This is especially important on a mechanical all-wheel drive system as it can always cause the differentials to rotate when they normally only would when changing direction.
  • smarty666smarty666 Member Posts: 1,503
    edited October 2010
    It is that kind of answer which illustrates perfectly why car salesman have the reputation they do!
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