Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nippononly · August 2007

How funny, my story is pretty much the same as michaell's, I took my car in, they lowballed me on trade-in (around $1000 below wholesale, for a car that is in good condition, if not the most desirable car in the world), I said forget it. That was the Subaru dealer, I didn't bother with the Honda dealer because I know they will be less generous on trade from past experience.

If I could have got a combo of $2000 more between what they offered me on trade and what they would reduce the price to, I would have gone ahead (and I told them so). I like the WRX. But OTOH, I think the new WRX will be a significant improvement in many areas, including finally having framed windows and a slightly nicer interior. So I can wait for the fire sales on '08s next summer...

michaellno · August 2007

Which car did you try to trade? The Echo or the Matrix?

I think the offer on our VUE was about market correct. Guess mrs. michaell will be driving it for a while.

woodyww · August 2007

I wonder how many Tribecas subaru sells? And what the resale value is?

I "appreciate" subarus, usually have 1 or 2 on my 10 or 20 car list of possible car purchases, probably because of living in New England. But I don't think I "get" the Tribeca--it doesn't seem to have much "subaru identity", maybe.....(?)

Plus in it's price range you can get a Highlander, or Pilot, or 4runner, etc. etc.

nippononly · August 2007

The Echo. 5 years old, 85,000 miles. I was hoping I could talk them up to high 5's, maybe $6000 for it (wholesale is like $5100, Kelly trade-in says $5400). After much hemming and hawing he said MAYBE he could squeeze out $4500 for it. Uh uh. It's in good shape, needs no reconditioning, just serviced, so that was half a deal breaker. I was also hoping they would come down a little more in price on the WRX. Actually, if my outlay could have come down $1500, I might have leapt.

oregonboy · August 2007

Wait for another spike in fuel prices and do a private party sale. But if fuel prices increase you might not be inclined to swap it for a WRX.

james

guss · August 2007

$1500 to $2000 is about where I figure my target number will be off when I go in to have my Escape appraised at the Mazda dealer this weekend.

I wanted to get a few things taken care on it first like the $100 bushing that was making a clunk. I figured the dealer would hit me for $1k on that. And I wanted to get the extra's that were on it that I did not like when I bought put back on. I never like the running boards and wind defectors. Too many extras slapped on ruin a car in my opinion.

But, like you guys I am willing to walk if they don't get to my number. The Escape has 70k miles but it is running good........ knock wood.

michaellno · August 2007

But, like you guys I am willing to walk if they don't get to my number. The Escape has 70k miles but it is running good........ knock wood.

That's how I feel about my L300 .. 63K so far. Yes, I've dropped a couple of grand into it in the past year and a half, and I fear that another set of tires may be necessary before too long (first set was replaced at 29K).

But, with only 4 payments left, I can see the day where the title goes into my safe!

Perhaps I'll celebrate with a full detail. Andre, did you do anything special when you paid off the 'Trep?

andre1969 · August 2007

Perhaps I'll celebrate with a full detail. Andre, did you do anything special when you paid off the 'Trep?

My whole family gathered round to a nice dinner and gave thanks when the Trep was paid off. Oh, wait, that was Thanksgiving, nevermind! :P

Under normal circumstances, I probably would have done something to celebrate, but I also sold my condo around the same time, and that had a much bigger financial impact.

I did take a picture of its odometer at 99,999 miles, which happened on Christmas Eve, 2004. I figured that's the closest that car would ever come to "rolling over", because it's sure not going to see 999,999 miles!

michaellno · August 2007

My whole family gathered round to a nice dinner and gave thanks when the Trep was paid off. Oh, wait, that was Thanksgiving, nevermind!

Great idea! The last payment on the L300 is due 11/25/07, which is right around the same time, so perhaps we'll do the same.

andre1969 · August 2007

is now two-for-two with sick cars. His '03 Corolla, which recently had its catalytic converter replaced, recently had the SES light come on again. We plugged a code reader up to it, and it's the same code as before...P0420. I forget the exact wording, but basically, catalytic converter. So, back to the muffler shop it goes. Oh, and he overheated it the other day, too. I just hope he didn't do any permanent damage to it!

Today, the alternator went out on his '97 Silverado, but he was somehow able to limp it home, and he fixed it himself. Oh well, I guess that's the price you pay when you hold onto a car for too long. Eventually, something's going to break! While an '03 might not sound old, he's had that Corolla for over 5 years now, and it has over 140,000 miles on it.

I think eventually he's going to break down and buy something, because he's just not used to not having a car payment. He had offered to give me his truck so I could retire my '85 Silverado and have a newer truck, but his '97 scares me somehow. I guess I just trust the '85 more.

Oh, and I put about 400 miles on the Intrepid this past weekend. Nothing scary to report, the air conditioning even (mostly) worked, and it averaged around 28-29 mpg. So hopefully I can hold off on renewing my CCB membership for a bit longer.

fezo · August 2007

I don't like the sound of that combination - overheating and catalytic converter. My daughter's Camry finally got back from the shop and we have the horrid details - it overheated on the Garden State Parkway which caused an oil line to blow which seized the engine and blew out the cat. The whole chain of events started because of a clog in the radiator.

Swell.

colloquor · August 2007

Why does anyone trade in cars in the first place? If you want to get low-balled, and also not be able to get as much off the top end of the new car, I guess trading is OK - if you like to throw away money!

You're much, much better off spending a weekend detailing your car, and selling it privately. Yes, it will take a few hours of your life, but you will be thousands of dollars ahead.

nippononly · August 2007

All there are in the private market are low-ballers and more low-ballers. If I am going to get low-balled, I might as well go to the dealer and trade in - at least there the buyer expects it to be a negotiation! And at the dealer it's quick, and I don't have to stay in town on weekends for three months straight hoping that THIS is the weekend when the buyer finally comes around! Or cancelling plans only to have the prospective buyer not show at the appointed hour.

guss · August 2007

Also, in my state you get a sales tax credit for the amount of your trade. So if I have a $10k trade I get $600 to start. Best I could hope for if I sold it myself would be $1500 more the trade in.

Is the $900 significant money ? Yes, but as Nippon said you are opening yourself up to a bunch of problems. Like will people show up, will they have valid drivers licenses to drive my car, will their cashiers check be real, and will they come back after the sale and sue me because something broke on the car.

qbrozen · August 2007

I'm even more skeptical than guss. I say you can typically expect $1k more selling it yourself than trading. So on a $15k car, with my state's 7% tax rate, I actually get MORE by trading it in.

british_rover · August 2007

Yeah there are only a few cars that are worth selling private party.

Older low mileage Japanese sedans and coupes for the most part are better off going the private party route.

qbrozen · August 2007

yup. My rule of thumb is pretty much anything $8k or less AND less than 10 years old. OR more than 10 years old, regardless of miles or value.

If its a young car worth more than $8k, I would just trade it in. .... well, unless its something special and hard to come by.

stickguy · August 2007

I traded in my tC last year when I got the Accord. Got 14K for it (real value, I already had ground the Accord to the bone, I think!).

I am in NJ also, so with the tax credit, I would have had to net more than 15K private sale to even start being ahead. And ads in the paper run $50 a week, etc.

Then, I would have had young folks with no money showing up, have to deal with people getting financing, etc.

All this for a 1.5 YO car that you could buy brand new for less than 17K at the time. So, exactly how much more than 15K could I have epxpected?

If trade in value was say 12K, I would have kept it and sold privately (or just kept it).

Now, if I am selling a 1999 Sentra or Protege with 65K on it, that baby is going private sale, since trade in will be lousy (maybe a couple of K), and it will be easy to get 1-2K more doing it myself, and the sales tax credit is pretty small.

stickguy · August 2007

These teaser lease ads have got to stop. They are distracting me.

Now Volvo is offering a 2 year sign and drive (zippo up front $) on an S80. I haven't driven one, but man, is it nice to sit in!

This is right after BMW was taunting me with the lease deal on a 3 series. Almost went in for that one.

Of course, it would be hard to justify getting rid of a paid off Accord to start renting something else. Maybe I can play the safety card for my son who is just getting his permit? That, and let him learn on someone elses car (the leaser)!

Although that would mean learning on an AT instead of a manual, which might save me some gray hair!

And give me an excuse to put the Accord cash back into a toy, so I have a stick to drive!

metro123 · August 2007

I have been debating whether to sell or trade my car and I find this descussion very timely. I have an 01 Civic EX sedan, silver, 5 speed with 58K miles. Car is mint. Now knowing the stupid money people pay for used Hondas, do I sell privately? I might just put out an ad and see what happens. I'm not in a hurry to sell and the car is currently parked in my garage. I'm driving my Lex GS400 for now.

I have sold two other cars privately before and both transactions went smoothly but those cars were $2500 and $4500 each. I guess the sooner I sell it the sooner I can start shopping. We'll see...

woodyww · August 2007

When I finally sell my yr. 2000 bmw, I plan to (try to) sell it privately. Reason is, because it's a super-low mileage "cream puff", & a wagon, & I know no dealer will really pay up for the low miles, while OTOH, I'm hoping the low mileage wagon will have a lot of appeal when I advertise it. My Gut is telling me maybe I could get an extra 25-30% selling it privately, but only one way to find out of course. (Latest edmunds prices were $11,675 trade-in, $14,628 retail, inc. adding for the miles).

I agree with nippononly about what a huge PITA it can be, altho I've found it varies a lot according to vehicle, & probably luck. It can be worth a try running an ad, & the offers you get can help you to judge your trade-in offer(s).

When I sold my range rover, best private offer I got was $28K, as was the best dealer offer, where I traded it in & saved $1400 in sales tax. Fortunately the RR lookers didn't give me much grief, unlike some other cars I've sold.

There was a sobering post by Mathias on the RWTIV board about selling his new-ish P/U, & all the grief potential "buyers" gave him. Made me think, if it's a hassle even for him......

I guess I'm just saying, it totally depends on the car, mileage, condition, area, & maybe the position of the planets, but it can be at least worth running an ad or 2 to "test the market".....sometimes.....

british_rover · August 2007

Your BMW is a good candidate for a private sale even though it is a little above the normal price range for relatively easy private sales.

The people looking at your car will probably have 15,000 or so in cash that they can scrounge up. The people looking at a 15,000 dollar full size domestic pick up truck probably don't have that much cash around.

[Deleted User] · August 2007

Hey metro,
I just sold a car same year, make, model and color as yours but with 83K miles. The best trade number I got was $6500 and I think that was a stretch. I put it on craigslist and sold it for $8300 but had my share of no shows, will call backs who never did, etc. Welcome to the world of auto sales, huh? I eventually had a young couple who had been looking for a while come see it, drove it and we met at their bank the next day to close the deal. I knew I was going to lease so I wasn't concerned about the tax credit but would have if I was going to buy.

roadburner · August 2007

I've had good luck selling my Bimmers to private parties, mainly due to my BMW CCA connections. Placing an ad in the local chapter newsletter should net a few serious buyers.

fintail · August 2007

I too thought of selling my pristine old C43 privately when I bought the E55 (for something like 7K under retail book, a decent deal), but they gave me a pretty decent price on it (more or less private party book) and coupled with the tax savings, made it hard to pass up. I still would have sold it myself if I had a garage space for it, but I didn't want to keep it outside. The only thing I would worry about are test pilots. I do not regret the decision.

The place I traded it into had it less than a week, too.

woodyww · August 2007

br, thanks for the vote of confidence. For the moment, I can't even manufacture a semi-valid reason to sell it, but you never know. I do like that $15K # tho......

roadburner, I've placed ads before w/other cars in the Roundel with big responses. Haven't had much results from the local chapter mag. or on-line ads yet, but, hey, it's "free".

fezo · August 2007

When you selling that wagon?

Not actually buying right now (a dangerous thing to say in this place) but that sounds sweet.

Heck, even metro's Civic is appealing. It's old enough not to have the star fleet dashboard and young enough to still be around for a long time.

I used to sell on my own exclusively but it seemed to me that the paper ads have really dried up and lately have been trading in. I'm in NJ and get that sales tax break as well.

woodyww · August 2007

The only thing I would worry about are test pilots

It's hard with a really nice car, that you "care" about. When I sold my Saab 9000 turbo, 2 different idiots (both middle class, middle-aged guys who should know better), Slammed, & I mean Slammed, on the brakes during the test drives in order to "test" the brakes, I guess. (I'd had a $1000 brake job done a few months before, & was not eager to have the new rotors warped).

One of the Yuppie brake-Slamming idiots made an offer, then put me thru Hell, the day of the sale, all day long, in 90 degree heat, by conning me into taking it to his mechanic 30 miles away, & then trying to grind me down more after getting the voluminous report back. I knocked off another $100.

I made about $2K more than the best $4400 dlr offer, so that's......$2K, & I made them pay in green cash, folding US currency. Oh yeah, & I pre-negotiated the buyer giving me a ride back the 30 miles to my bmw mechanic, where I picked up my vintage BMW, so then I not only still had a vintage BMW, but also $6500 in cash. Spreading out the 65 $100 bills on the passenger seat of my E24 seemed to help relieve the trauma of the saab sale quite a bit.

Altho it would be nice to be able to hire a couple of the Sopranos to hang around when doing private car deals....

stickguy · August 2007

If I ran into that wagon near me, I would have some serious thoughts about grabbing it. Right up my alley!

metro123 · August 2007

Wow, you did great !! I was thinking of asking about $8900, I may have to rethink my pricing.

I expect the no shows, the tire kickers and the time wasters but I also know I have real gem of a car and so I know someone will pay $$$ for it. It should sell quick. Most of the Civics in my area are miled up commuters or get ragged out by the kids so finding a nice one is tough. The Honda dealers here (so. fla) have this "take it or leave it" attitude so buying from them or trading to them can be difficult. I'm actually looking forward to the process. I get to be a salesman for once !! LOL !!

guss · August 2007

I used to sell on my own exclusively but it seemed to me that the paper ads have really dried up and lately have been trading in. I'm in NJ and get that sales tax break as well.

Funny you should mention that. I am in the Philly area and noticed the local papers have very few private sales anymore. I guess it costs too much to run an ad anymore so most people go to Craigslist. I know that would be my first option.

qbrozen · August 2007

newspaper ads are just ridiculously overpriced. And, yeah, that's even more obvious compared to craigslist. But I discovered that I'd much rather use Ebay if I'm paying for an ad. Nationwide full-color 10-day advert for something like $25, compared to 1 weekend of a lousy 4-line ad with no pics at all to a limited audience for $50?? No contest!

fezo · August 2007

"The Honda dealers here (so. fla) have this "take it or leave it" attitude so buying from them or trading to them can be difficult."

Of course they do! They wouldn't be Honda dealers if they didn't.....

That would be a nice deal on your Civic. I'd consider it for sure.

fintail · August 2007

Around here some of the VW-style tuner kids have taken a liking to Mercedes W202, and I am sure some of them would love a fast test drive in a C43. I wouldn't risk it. Whenever I am tired of the E55, I will face the same risk.

Oh yeah, never buy a car in December in the rain. It's hard to tell how much the AC sucks (my E55 gets to go in for a warranty repair soon as the AC has did again), and you can't judge just how hard it will be to keep it looking pristine.

andre1969 · August 2007

Oh yeah, never buy a car in December in the rain.

LOL. Well it wasn't rainy, but it was December when I rescued a 1979 Newport from the junkyard back in late 1996. I remember testing out the a/c, in the junkyard, and it seemed to blow nice and cold. Well DUH!! It was proably all of 45-50 degress out!

Once springtime rolled around, I found out just how non-existent the a/c in that car really was.

fintail · August 2007

I'm in that same boat. It seemed OK at 45F and cold rain, but this summer, it isn't. Not cool for a car that just rolled over 30K. At least I've got it looking like new now.

siennami · August 2007

qualify me as a CCBA member? I leased a Toyota Sienna back in 2000; had it for 3 years. It was stolen. By the time it was found, I was in a VW Passat. I drove it for 3 years also till I hurt my back and bought a Kia Sedona last October. I really wanted a Toyota and regretted that purchase mightily. When I checked the Kia's resale value and found that it was less than the 3 year-old Passat I previously drove, I started looking at Toyotas again. After a truly draining experience at a dealership about 45 miles from home, I ended up leasing an 07 Sienna. I really like it; it fits in my garage, it's lighter to drive, yada, and more yada... However, I dread telling my family, 'cause I know what they'll say. The payments aren't the best because I was a good bit upside down, but I'm a firm believer in driving something you actually enjoy driving

It's gonna be tight, but I need to stop eating out anyway!
So.... do I qualify?

fezo · August 2007

Well, you are well ahead of me and michaell and they let us be in here. I;d say you qualify!

guss · August 2007

I would say if you think you are, well probably you are.

Welcome to the club.

stickguy · August 2007

Heard another teaser lease deal ad on the raio for a 325 BMW. I want one.

Maybe someone will plow into my car when it is parked and total it. Stuff like that happens all the time, just to other people, right?

fezo · August 2007

Hmmmm... Maybe I'll park next to you....

qbrozen · August 2007

didn't they stop making the 325?

guss · August 2007

Same thing happened to my MIL while parked on the street. Talk about being jealous.

woodyww · August 2007

I think you should go drive the bmw, & the volvo you mentioned. Might as well get the fun of driving them, if only for an hour, & even if leasing/buying one doesn't make huge sense.

Would the lease pymnts & down pymnt on the bmw eat up most or all of what you'd get from selling the accord?

stickguy · August 2007

well Woody, if you want to apply financial logic to the situation, I don't think I want to talk to you any more!

I would have money left over, depending on what I could actually sell the Accord for. What is a 2005 4 door EX-L 5 speed with 15K on it worth? TOo bad there isn't a carsmack nearby..

So, lets say 16K (gotta say something). The VOlvo is easy, about $500/month x 24 = $12K

BMW is ~350 (tax inc) for 36, so that is (tking socks off here, give me a minute..) $12,600 + ~3,000 up front, so say $15,600.

So, hypothetically, I could drive a new VOlvo for 2 years and have 4K left over for new wheels.

THe BMW is even easier. Basically, I trade the Accord for the privelege of driving a BMW for 3 years, and than having no car and no money.

I'm no savant, but I bet the Accord 3 years from now with less than 50K on the clock will be worth more than zero! And well more than 4K in 2 years.

But I still wouldn't mind having a 3 series. After all, I deserve it!

Oh, did I mention that college tuition starts in 2 years?

Actually, if I did make a move, I might rather trade in the Odyssey. Not quite as comfortable that it will be a long lasting trouble free experience. Plus vans get squeaky and rattle trappy as they get older.

guss · August 2007

Darn right you deserve it , lifes too short to be driving the same car day in and day out.

You might not ever get a chance to drive the ultimate driving machine while you are still young. In an other 10 years you will be too old to even push the clutch in , and if they are still around you will be looking at Town Cars because the have the cushiest ride.

I say for the BMW , you know you have always wanted one.
(It's much easier to spend your money, I don't have to deal with your "boss")

woodyww · August 2007

Would you consider a used 3 series? You could get a decent E36 for maybe a few $$thousand on up to the high teens for a nice M3. Or an E46 (great cars w/o iDrive or Runflats--I think) for.....upper $$ teens maybe for a 5 y.o. one with reasonable miles. (Just an idea).

I too have major lust for both the current gen 3's & 5's....so I understand it. I practically salivate every time I see one in a color I like.

If you get the new 3, I'd say, see if there are any options you really want, like the SPP, or Xenons. Altho that may be too costly or difficult if you're leasing.

Good luck! Woody

sandman46 · August 2007

Don't want to rain on your parade, but I'd keep the Accord and keep putting $ away for college and retirement. Trust me, with 3 kids in college now, the $ keeps going out for this and for that and whatever. And retirement could be here within four years so we decided to get cheaper economy cars. I've been lusting after an Acura TSX and could've spent the whole "gift" from my deceased grandmother last year and been lovin' my TSX. But common sense brought me back to reality and I got my Civic, which I'm still very happy with. I invested the rest in money market funds so the "gift" is still giving.
It's like those old shows where there was a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other each pushing at some poor soul. Do what you really want after weighing all the variables because once you choose...it's a done deal!
Good luck with whatever you decide and I'm honestly not trying to rain on your parade. Just showing you another alternative.

The Sandman

woodyww · August 2007

Honestly, I'd probably agree with The Sandman. Keep the Accord, & maybe buy an old E30 3-series as a toy for $5K or so.

But was stickguy talking about a Mini at one point? What about buying a Mini in the low 20's? He'd own the car instead of paying $15000 to rent a new 3 for 36 mo.

michaellno · August 2007

... the gods must be laughing.

After we decided to not trade in the VUE, we took it out on a bunch of errands yesterday.

T'was a hot day here in Denver (upper 90's), and there were lots of short trips.

About a mile from home, the car died! Lost power and just died. Wouldn't restart, either - it turned over, just wouldn't catch.

Called AAA and had them tow it to the Saturn dealer. I went to the dealer this morning to talk to them about it. Of course, it started right up! Decided to leave it with them anyway since it was there and have them evaluate it.

Talked with them just a while ago and they have found nothing wrong. No check engine codes, nothing.

Do modern cars still get vapor lock? I thought that was an issue with carburated cars only.

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