Toyota TACOMA vs Ford RANGER - VI

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  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    TA Tachometer (All Except Limited)
    NOT AVAILABLE with CQ, OF.
    $76 $95
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    Lookie here gang! Look what this has come down to....arguing about TACHOMETERS'!!!! lol!!!!!

    Boy , you REALLY know you have lost the argument when you have to start debating Tachometers. lol.

    This is over. Has been since the day I arrived on this forum.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    "good point, and a very nice skid plate it is on
    the Tacoma.

    A complaint of mine against Ford. Build a 4X4 you
    should have skid plates. "



    See, this is the problem. They didn't build a 4x4. They built a comfortbale pickup for hauling dirt and supplies from Home Depot. The suspension is purely a highway one, and the standrad payload is very weak.

    NOT ONE ASPECT of Ford's design philosophy is for offroading. Even that cheesy "Ford lets customers visit design center" post never mentions a dirt road anyhwere near the testing facility.


    Until FORD starts designing trucks with offroading in mind, they will never be good 4x4's. The older f150's and Rangers used to be halfway decent, but not anymore.

    Sorry gang, it's just a difference in design philosophy between Toyota and Ford.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I've financed several vehicles, been to banks when others have financed vehicles, seen dealers posts all over this forum. I've only seen NADA used by the bank in determining max loan amount.

    My point is that these pricing guides are only useful in determining a ballpark amount. There are numerous factors, both objective and subjective, that must be taken into account when determining residual value.

    If you want to believe these pricing guides as gospel, then go ahead. They generally rate a Ranger's resale value higher than a Tacoma when you look at it as a % of original cost.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I've financed several vehicles, been to banks when others have financed vehicles, seen dealers posts all over this forum. I've only seen NADA used by the bank in determining max loan amount.

    My point is that these pricing guides are only useful in determining a ballpark amount. There are numerous factors, both objective and subjective, that must be taken into account when determining residual value.

    If you want to believe these pricing guides as gospel, then go ahead. They generally rate a Ranger's resale value higher than a Tacoma when you look at it as a % of original co
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    Hey spoog, who's stuart Ivan?? -you must mean Ivan Stewart. BTW, doesn't he race for ford?....
  • flynnbflynnb Member Posts: 14
    IF YOU GO BACK AND READ MY POST I NEVER SAID KELLY OR NADA WAS GOSPEL.I PROMISE THAT I HAVE FINANCED MORE VEHICLES THEN YOU.AUCTIONS AND ACTUAL CASH VALUE ARE WHAT SEPERATE THE TOYOTA FROM THE FORD.DONT ARGUE WITH FACTS!!!!!!!
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Why would someone want to pay extra for an option they don't need?

    If the Toyota actually cost the same or even remotely near the Ranger and offered more standard equipment, you might actually have a point.

    Alas, it doesn't.





    Also, you're preaching about resale values and Kelley being the absolute final word. In reality, you're nowhere close. BTW, I've been working in public accounting as an auditor for the past few years and majored in finance and accounting in college. If you think you know more about finance and financial institutions, I'd love to hear why.



    I don't argue with facts. If you happen to post any, I'd be glad to discuss them with you.



    Finally, that little "Caps Lock" light doesn't mean the keyboard is all fired up and ready to go! :oD
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    Who do you work for? I just left Arthur Andersen after four years as an auditor.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Wow, this room has heated up!!
    Don't beleive Kelly Blue Book? Go to any other car/truck resale site on the internet. The Tacoma doesn't hold its value any better than the Ranger. Certainly not 2-4K better.
    Fact is the TRD is limited in where you can use the locker, how fast you can go. I know because I have a friend who owns a TRD! He rarely uses his locker if ever... He has even admitted he could do without it and it was an expense he did not need, along with the whole TRD package.
    Fact is the Ranger is coming this fall with a 4.0 SOHC 205HP 240ft/lbs of torque monster that is going to make Toyota boys cry.. Toyota started it with its 3.4, along with Chevy with its 4.3, Ford answered this HP war...
    As far as ground clearance we have been through this over and over.. A stock Ranger comes with some pretty pathetic tires.. I always recommend to new Ranger owners "Drop the Firejunkers".. I also put some P265x75R16's all terrains on my Ranger and a TRD may have about a 1/2" advantage.
  • eagle63eagle63 Member Posts: 599
    Why is it that vehicles with higher resale values always cost more to begin with? Hmmmm. Is there a correlation there???
    Every time I hear that resale argument I almost die laughing.
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    NO MORE CAPS
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Ivan has driven for Toyota for years now. This is a true story, however, a few years back Ivan Stewart's pre-runner was a disguised Ford with Toyota sheet metal. It seems while he had to race the vehicles from the people who signed his check, his own personal choice was Ford.
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    and changes to the ranger...
    1. Compares an automatic to a manual. From the article itself. "On the trail, we found the automatic transmission to be a double-edged sword. The smoothness of the First-to-Second shift, combined with the inherent low-end grunt of the engine, was almost enough to overcome the taller gearing. And in the end, voting followed individual preferences for manuals versus automatics."
    2. Compare a 4.1 rearend to a 3.73 rearend. even tho Ford offers a 4.1 rearend.
    3. Ranger tested only had 235/75 tires on 15 inch rims instead of 245/75 on 16" rims.
    4. Ford has revised the Suspension every year since 98
    5. not an error but to note A $5000 price differnce.
    6. All of the FORD performance numbers go out the window when the sohc 4.0 makes it debut.

    Now all of those seem to make the 3 year old article obsolete to me.

    And to ayone who thinks a 2wd prerunner can outperform ANY 4wd Truck is just showing how little they actually go offroading. Just my oppinion.

    Now i wont say that the trd 4wd is a nice Sticker becuase i think its a nice package. But on a Prerunner it is a sticker. He!! the whole prerunner truck is about image. why do you need an offroad suspension on a 2wd Truck.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I work for Thomas Havey LLP in the Chicago office. I've been there the past couple of years since I graduated in May '98. It's pretty nice. The only real beef I've got is that we have no clients that I'd want to go work for after I've had my fill of the public accounting lifestyle (we do mostly labor unions, fund accounting, non-profits, governmental, and school districts).

    A friend of mine works in the Andersen tax department. He works some crazy hours during busy season. I don't think he really gets a day off for 4 months.

    Where'd you defect to?
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    A friend of mine who has a Toyota p/u wants to possibly trade it in for a Tacoma.

    I was wondering what would be the best choice to recommend as we've been discussing it.

    I suggested that a 4-cylinder manual tranny with a locker would be the best choice. He commutes a ton of miles (over a 100 a day) and wants something that's good on gas. How's its drivability. Is it gonna be a drastic performance drop from his 3.0L auto in his other truck?

    He's also a bit price conscious. I think he's overly optimistic about the trade value of his truck too and what kind of deal a Toyota dealer would give him.

    Any advice that I'd be able to pass along to him would be appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Colin
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Funny that you changed from the 1998 comparison to 1999. I'm pretty sure that was because the difference between the Ranger and the Tacoma in 1998 was a lot more in favor of the Tacoma than in 1999. Rather than searching for ideal conditions to prove your point, lets agree that the difference is much less than the initial price difference and that the Ford is gaining on the Toyota. I can't really argue with that.
    scottssss- In a wash or much of the desert, I am confident that the PreRunner will easily outperform the stock 4X4 Ranger. In those areas 4 wheel drive will rarely be required and the PreRunner's suspension and tires are far superior to the stock Ranger. If the PreRunner gets stuck, the locker will get it free. You may have trouble accepting that, but that doesn't change the truth.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Where did you get that Ivan Stewart yarn? Sounds like another alligator in the sewer story.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    As I re-read most of the Ford posts here, it's mostly made up of Ranger supporters trying to prove that their trucks are almost as good as the Toyota. I don't see any Toyota owners trying to meet Ford standards. I guess the Toyota is still the one to beat.
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    Even Edmunds praises the PreRunners off-road performance: "Powerful engine choices, attractive looks, competent off-road capabilities".
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I've been involved in off road racing for years with SCORE and SNORE. You can call Bunderson racing in Vegas, Foreign Auto Parts in Vegas(they prep countless team's buggies before big races)ask for David or Butch. Collins racing, Herbst racing. Heck the way some Toyota owners throw Ivan Stewart's name around, ask him.

    Funny you mention alligators!!! There were two caught at Lake Mead last year. From the sewers?????
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    As I read through these posts, I see people (from either side) throwing out erroneous garbage. Then, it erupts into yet another flame war when somebody calls them on it and they're too stubborn to admit defeat or back down.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Maybe when that guy in his 2wd truck gets stuck in a little dip or something, the other guy in his 4wd truck would be nice enough to tow him out.

    :)
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    I went to work for a capital management company. It's been great so far. Much less work, less stress, shorter commute and a lot more $. I didn't really have any clients I would have wanted to work for, either. I got my job through a headhunter.
  • flynnbflynnb Member Posts: 14
    Are you listening?I never said any words that kelly or nada was the gosspel.Yes I do know more about auto financing then you.I do it everyday.It seems that the ford lovers get the most upset.I guess I would to if I had one!!!!can't we all just get along.I don't think there is a toyota guy here that would'nt stop to pull out a ranger.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Yeah, I've been kind of thinking about doing the same thing for a little while now. Grad school, either law degree or MBA, is also a possibility. The hours and commutes are getting worse along with the headaches of running bigger and bigger jobs.

    Maybe I'll give a headhunter a chance. It seems like you had a pretty good experience with them.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Member Posts: 861
    Yeah, the headhunter did pretty good for me, but it took a while and I used several of them (sent my resume to them). The only advice I would give you is to make sure you leave for the right reasons, not just because it gets you out. I have some friends who took the first thing that came along and they were looking for a new job in 6 months.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I'd love to hear why/how you know so much about the world of finance.

    Refer to post #430.

    BTW, I wouldn't even consider a vehicle's nameplate before offering to help out a stranded motorist.


    -Colin A.K.A. "Smart Guy"

    p.s. Do you guys think I should make this my new handle?
  • superjim2000superjim2000 Member Posts: 314
    Lets call it posi, lsd sounds like......um I'll have a beer instead of that. But serioiusly yeah posi is awesome, wouldnt get a truck without it.
  • flynnbflynnb Member Posts: 14
    Enough,I think people are getting to serious.Smart guy, you need to quit reading something that has not been said.That would make a good cb handle.see you all monday,i've got fly fishing to do.:)
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I hear ya on both points.

    Isn't there some difference between posi-traction and a limited slip differential? I thought there is some minor mechanical functionality that's different.

    I'd never consider a 2wd truck without some form of anti-slipping rear differential.
  • superjim2000superjim2000 Member Posts: 314
    I have posi, always had it. Think its called different things by different manufacturers. My shop teacher said Chevy was first with it.

    I think every manufacturer has "something" that makes it different "we put this here not there" and thats why its different. Are'nt most engines very similiar? A 90 degree V8 from pluto should be naturally balanced, same as a 90 degree V8 from mars.
  • jaguar245jaguar245 Member Posts: 4
    This switch is offered on the Tacoma, and it is for those who can't drive a manual. If you know how to drive a manual you won't stall your engine going up a steep hill in mud, and the transfer case in 4low. Someone made the comment that a limited slip diff. was only for road use not off- road use. When a vehicle with LSD starts spinning on wet pavement they start moving side ways, because neither tire has any traction. With an open differential 1 tire will spin, and you will move in a strait line. Off-road a LSD is useful, because you need all the traction you can get.

    This is a response to an earlier post on topic 1813, around post 607.
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    I agree with you on the clutch start cancel switch. If you know how to drive stick, I don't see a situation in which it's necessary.


    But...


    I don't agree about the Lim-Slip-Dif.

    If you have an open axle, lose traction, and start a tire spinning, all of the engine's power will be spent through the spinning tire. The other tire is getting no power. So, you don't move at all.

    Trust me. I've been stuck in my driveway in a few inches of snow because of an open axle.


    With a Lim-Slip-Dif, power is transferred to the non-spinning wheel. The wheel with traction gets the engine's power.


    In the situation where you're talking about the back end of the truck moving sideways, it can happen with an open or LSD axle. It's basically putting too much power to the rear wheels, breaking traction, and sliding the back end out.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    These Toyota boys just can't admit the open axle issue... Fact is a locker is better than LSD, LSD is better than an open axle... Lockers are limited in use and function, speed, straight ahead acceleration only.. These are offroad ONLY. LSD has more of a worldy use, both offroad and on street... Open axle, I won't go their, Ok, I will, useless....
    Fact is the Tacoma has lost its resale edge, go to vehix.com, carpoint.com, Edmunds, Kelly, they all say the same thing... Sorry to burst your resale bubble....
    flynnb, your new here, Last year I posted that on a trip up into the Cascades I ran across a stranded guy in a Tacoma. We were at least 15 miles off the nearest road that had any traffic on it. He was glad to see me, and my Ranger.. His truck just up and quit on him. I never mentioned a word, nor put down his truck... Just took him to the nearest phone.. :-))
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    With a limited slip diff, power is not "transfered" like the electronic 4wd systems found on many vehicles today. Actually, when a wheel slips a clutch type mechanism kicks in and starts the other tires spinning. Now, if the tires is airborne and can't "slip" causing the clutch to engage the tire will continue to spin.
    With a locker, both tires spin all the time, it doesn't matter if one gets airborne or not...
    With an open axle (What most Toyota's have) only one tire spins...
  • scottssssscottssss Member Posts: 147
    my 2wd ranger with lsd would perform adaquatly in a wash and most of the desert, but throw in some rocks and a steep incline both the prerunner and my 2wd ranger will be watching the 4wd ranger work its way up ... that is not speculation that is fact.. NO suspension upgrade is going to provide power to the front tires or move the majority of the vehicle weight over the back tires. the Tacoma is a great Offroad truck, no doubt about it, but the the prerunner is 2WD. 2Wd means nothing in the mountains and thats what we have here in Colorado.

    And 4wd Ranger owners here, how bout a lil help, Spoog and AK are trying to sayt a 2wd Truck will outperform your 4wd Rangers.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    I am not even going to play into this garbage that a 2WD Prerunner will outperform a 4WD Ranger with its offroad pkg, even with stock tires! Fact is the weight of the truck is over its frontend and the light weight of the rear end won't help any truck, locker or no locker... I agree the Toyota is a good offroad vehicle, but so is the Ranger...
    I take my Ranger 4x4 XLT supercab stepside into the Cascade mountains here in the NW and have never, ever had a problem getting where I need to go. Granted, I did dump the pathetic Firestones and opted for a P265x75R16 8ply all terrain tire, what a world of difference!
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    Aren't those 7" rims on the off-road pkg Ranger? I'm thinking about getting some BFG's before next winter and am opting for 265's. If I remember correctly, the stock size on a off-road pkg Ranger is P245/70-R16. What gives?
  • allknowingallknowing Member Posts: 866
    I guess it's your ego that is giving you problems with the PreRunner. Don't have a heart attack, just read what I said a little closer. Even the avid off-roaders with a Ranger admit that the stock Ranger could use a package with bigger tires and a stiffer suspension. If you need 4 wheel drive in a wash or a desert trail than your Ranger must really suck big time. I said that the PreRunner has an advantage over a stock Ranger in those conditions but certainly not on large rocky areas, extremely loose areas with soft mud etc., and steep inclines. Do I have to repeat myself like Vince to get a point across here. My point was that Ford doesn't offer a comparable off road package to Toyota's.
  • spoogspoog Member Posts: 1,224
    In Dry wash runs, the Prerunnner would own the 4x4 Ranger. The suspension, locker, and handling would put that to shame. In wet, muddy conditions and snow, the Ranger 4x4 may up the Pre-runner.


    4 wheeler-


    "The TRD Tacoma handled the rough stuff better than any vehilce we have EVER driven..........."
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    THANK YOU for a very informative post.

    Our resident Tacoma weasel spoog barfed that comment on Limited Slip differentials. You, jaguar, are totally correct. A LS is an advantage off-roading. Not as good as a locker but not bad either.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    interesting you used the term

    "...little dip..."
    in refering to someone taking a prerunner where a 4X4 should go.

    Any Colorado prerunners that wish to "TRY" to 4 wheel please show up at the enterence to Medano pass road, Col hwy 69 and FR 559 on the 8th of July. You will make it maybe 7 miles in before a Ranger pulls you off the mountain.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    I can, and will in the near future, put Rancho RS500 or RS 9000 on my truck for maybe 200-300 bucks. Much better shocks than stock.

    I do not disagree with you regarding a Ranger could use better shocks, most any vehicle stock shocks are not the best. However I completely disagree regarding a Tacoma PreRunner being anywhere in the league of my Ranger.

    Show up at Medano and be prepared to be badly humiliated.

    I have been over it, and a while a preRunner may make it it will not be very easy.

    Do not discount my Ranger's ability until you have been where it has been.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Get much use of that locker 4 wheeling around cowpies in the farmers fields?

    "Vooom, voooom, dreamin about them Rocky Mtns."
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    allknowing:
    To answer a previous question and I, unlike others do answer questions, I chose the 99 and 98 KBB values just at random. If you go back to 95 or so the Tacoma holds maybe a 1-1.5k advantage in resale. But do not forget the Tacoma cost 3k or so more.

    There is a dealer in todays Rocky Mtn News selling loaded Ranger XLT Supercab 4X4 for 18.6K.
    It is where I got my Ranger year and a half ago for 17.4K, with 2.9% finance charge vs taking the $1,000 cash back.

    With interest rates up more than 2% from that time looks like an even better deal(thank the current admin. in DC for those increases BTW)
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Federal govt just grabbed 170,000 acres in s/w Colo as a national monument, taking it away forever from off-road peoples uses. Prime area for either a 4X4 Tacoma/Ranger or a PreRunner.

    Never consulted or asked the state reps or the wishes of the majority of the state of Colo. Same trick used in So. Utah(but there was something about oil reserves in that one)

    Guess it is the cost of legacy making. . .when there is nothing else to fall back on for an accomplishment. . .

    Did it in your area too vince8.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    The proposal for around the 2002-03 Ranger is to add after market shocks, beef the suspension a bit, add a new V6 engine and toughen the stance of the Ranger.

    What, other than new spiffy colors, does Toyota have planned? Same tired 3.4 engine, same drive train, same uncomfortable seats, same old style dash. . .?
  • cthompson21cthompson21 Member Posts: 1,102
    "little dip" is right. This "dry wash" with no bumps, dips, rocks, branches, mud, etc... sure sounds a helluva lot more like a road as the discussion goes on.
  • cpousnrcpousnr Member Posts: 1,611
    Here is the URL where the 7 common owners just like you and me where called to Ford to discuss the future of the Ranger. Interesting reading.

    Ia am a bit more impressed that Ford would contact and pay all the expenses to fly people to Dearborn to discuss the Ranger.

    http://www.fordranger.com/RangerProgram.html
This discussion has been closed.

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