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Comments
99.2 percent of the Lower 48 is roaded(5,000 acre definition). We have way too many roads as it is. Lets preserve some of the wildness, eh? After all, Colorado would not be Colorado without it's wilderness areas.
add after market shocks, beef the suspension a bit,
add a new V6 engine and toughen the stance of the
Ranger.
"
lol. Going all the way to 2003 Cspounser? lol. Man, you REALLY are grasping for straws now. This debate is about the current Tacoma and Ranger, not some "dream Ranger" you have in your head.
The Current Tacoma and ranger are the ones in the 98 4wheeler comparison test.
"What, other than new spiffy colors, does Toyota
have planned? Same tired 3.4 engine, same drive
train, same uncomfortable seats, same old style
dash. . .?"
The drivetrain and engine that work FLAWLESSLY together? The drivetrain and engine that Petersons called "a perfect fit, a prime example of solid engineering and design"?
As for the dash, Im sure it will be changed.
Who knows Cspounser, maybe one day Ford will take that highway suspension off the Ranger.....
You can dream, can't you?
I have posted articles from Consumer Reports, Four Wheeler, Edmunds, Carpoint, and too many others to count that rate the Ranger very favorable. Go to the Edmunds evaluations on each vehicle and see that Ranger in some cases, out points the Tacoma.
The BEST vehicle? Depends on you needs. If your on a budget, the Tacamo surely will not fit your needs.
Rangers are quite good vehicles, regardless of the sometimes retoric I see from Tacoma posters on this board.
Only one panel, the one under the rearcab window on drivers side, did not get hail damage.
Anyone have experience with paintless dent repair? That is what they are doing with it, kinda push/pop the dents out.
Still puzzles me how the Tacoma can be so "superior", yet still not sell as well as the Ranger, even after 5 years on the market...Ranger fills most of what folks want out of a truck and for a fair price...
Ranchers USED some of that BLM land and hunters hunted that BLM land, all generating revenue for the state and the nation. They were not abusing the land, but using it. It took a good portion of 3 counties in sw Colo and screwed with the tax base and the livelyhood of numerious long time resident land oweners/ranchers.
All gone now for a guy trying to spend our money for a legacy.
Most of us like country that is scenic and rigged, thats where we like to camp and offroad.
Ask yourself this question:
How many of your favorite places have a wilderness area at it's core?
How would you feel if none of the roads dead ended, and all could meet up with each other?
All that land being preserved will still allow hunting, horseback riding, ranching, fishing, camping, and biking.
What it will NOT allow is more roads to be built into what little roadless areas we have left.
Here is a link to a map of our remaining roadless areas. Pretty sad:
http://www.wilderness.net/nwps/map.cfm
So Cspounser, next time you use the word "land grab" think twice.
The biggest "land grabber" we ever had was Teddy Roosevelt ( a Republican). He land grabbed the national forests away from the private industries so the people of America could have beautiful backyards. THANKS TEDDY!!!!!!!!
As for the Ranchers, the Ranching setup on public lands is pure corporate welfare.
I think maybe it's time you listened to the facts. It seems to be an issue with you.
I am invloved HEAVILY in the NEW USFS Roadless Initiative, so don't get me started.
Outsell the Ranger? Check my posts a few months back. The statistics from both Toyota and Ford do not support that argument. Toyota produced about 160,000 Tacomas last year. Ford produce 350,000 Rangers. I also posted the figures from So Cal and as I recall the Ranger outsold Tacoma by about 6-7,000 units. I posted that data long before you started posting on this topic. Do not take it personal but your wrong.
The numbers do not support that Ranger is outsold in So. Cal.
What kind of Ranger do you own, an XL or lower? Or is it a pre-98? Mine does real fine in all conditions. As for botteming out, my Ranger only hits the skids in rocky terrain and does quite well on rough, rather steep forest service roads in the Wet mountains, while not having 4X4 engaged. Difference is, when I NEED my 4 wheel drive, it is there in a fraction of a second, at any speed.
Now I do not take anything away from a PreRunner or for that matter the Ranger Trailhead. And I am sure they do better than a basic non-4X4 in those conditions. But get serious. It is a nice 4X2 with lots of clearance and as the ads say, Gives that 4X4 look.
My Ranger only has bottoms out on very rough terrain, where a PreRunner would not be found
Agree with you about Roosevelt, however did not totally disagree with his tact at that time. At that time there was widespread abuse of the Wilderness areas. Not so much of that today.
As to your statistics, perhaps that is true in the east and say So. Cal. where I would agree with you that people have raped the land (particularly So. Cal.). But I can hit wilderness areas all over this state where you have to walk 20-30 miles to hit the next road.
You see, that is where groups that like to land grab and I depart company. I will bet you still believe that there are less trees in the USA vs say 100-150 years ago. That is wrong.
My argument is with the restriction of access and the end goal reasons of why it is being done, emphisis on the phrase "end goal reasons". Protection and enforcement of rules is a different story.
You do not know how may times I have chewed out people I see in Rocky Mt. Nat. Park, letting the dogs run wild or walking off on mtn. tundra in areas clearly marked "stay on the paths". And for the most part, they all go back to their out of state licensed vehicles.
In the western states, large percentages are ranched with limited access.
The wilderness is not as endangered as you lead us to believe.
In regard to forests, there is a book that documents the John Fielder recreating pictures taken by W. H. Jackson in the 1870's.
The increased number of trees is quite graphic. Denuded mountains of the late 1800's are now lush with trees.
Same goes for the volcano in the Phillipines which spewed out more pollution than mankind has made since the dawn of history. The PI has recovered.
Sorry spoog, just a bunch of incorrect information from the tree huggers that gets federal funds to pay people and restrict my access to areas of beauty.
By your logic it would seem that AWD offerings like some of the hot, little pocket-rockets from Subaru would be the best off-road vehicle. They'd be able to run your wash the quickest.
The simple FACT (no stories here) is: A 4wd truck has off-road capabilities far exceeding its 2wd compatriot.
If you want to run them down a dirt road 1/4 mile to see who you think is best, then feel free.
Doubt the east coast papers got into this detail. Also the results of the 1996 land grab is more people coming to the areas and more damage to the areas natural beauty.
There were proposals by the locals for a solution to the issue. They were ignored. So by executive decision, a small group of people who did not live in the area decided for the residents of the area.
Too bad.
If you drove a Ranger, it is more friendly to the environment:http://www.askjeeves.com/main/metaAnswer.asp?MetaEngine=AltaVista&logQID=859008BAC53FD4118A3300D0B765CDE0&qCategory=auto&qSource=0&frames=yes&site_name=Jeeves&scope=web&r=x&MetaTopic=Best+of+1998&MetaURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aceee.org%2Fgreenguide%2Ftab-temp.htm&EngineOrdinal=3&ItemOrdinal=5&ask=What+was+the+number+of+Toyota+Tacoma+sales+in+California%3F+metasearch&origin=0&MetaList=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aceee.org%2Fgreenguide%2Ftab-temp.htm&x=12&y=10
Now I can agree that the difference in Tacoma vs Ranger sales is closer in So. Ca. but I do recall seeing that Ranger sold more units.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19970210/press000898.html
Also, look at Tacoma vs Ranger III posts 185 and 317.
Ranger outsells Tacoma by a wide margin.
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20000601/press017064.html
More Ranger sales, again 30,000+ Rangers sold:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20000502/press014506.html
More Ranger sales, 43,000 units:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20000403/press012082.html
Ford and the environment(if you want to save the environment, you should be driving Ford:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20000422/press013709.html
Toyota Sales, 22,000 total ALL pickups:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20000601/press017107.html
Toyota sales, 20,000 units, ALL pickups:
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/20000502/press014524.html
Thats enough for now.
With sales double that of Tacoma, it is highly unlikely that Tacoma outsells Ranger in So. Cal.
All(knowing), perhaps you should change your name?
Do not take it personal, just my wit is sometimes sharp.
this state where you have to walk 20-30 miles to
hit the next road. \\
No. There is not one place in Colorado that is 20 miles from a road. You must be thinking of the GReater YEllowstone Ecosystem or the Bob Marshall in Montana. And by road, I am talking maintained dirt or gravel.
As for the "land grab" in Montezuma....let me ask you this question:
How were these people "denied" access?
Tozer sounds like yet another uneducated conspiracy goofball on corporate welfare for his ranching. HE has no respect for the ruin and burial grounds? The guy just walks up and disturbs a marking. How rude.
carlady/roving host
Your being too radical.
But what is your point on access roads? As long as visitors are responsible for thier actions and follow the rules, there are not problems. The vehicles to be licensed in the state for the most part have to pass emissions standards. My truck basically has water and a bit of CO2 in its exhaust. The 4X4 clubs in this area help to keep the trails open and I assure you police people who act without regard to the environment.
Now compare that to just running a PreRunner or 4X4 flat out in open fields or desert, with no regard to what you are destroying. Also, since you have bragged about it, how friendly to the environment is it to drag race Rangers and, as you stated, get 3 speeding tickets? That is a WASTE of natural resources, increased the need for foreign oil(which is NOT restricted in how it pollutes when getting oil), pollutes the atmosphere and could result in death or destruction of some of natures wonders.
If you read the article I posted, the intent of the action is very unclear. As it is thought, firewood cutting will be prohibited which will increase the chances of forest or brush fires, cattle grazing will be eliminated and more.
BTW, in the last 2 years, I have planted 137 trees on my property, tended them, provided houses for 4 bluebird families and pulled trash out of the Pike Nat. Forest.
Other than burn rubber, waste gas, endanger yourself and others to bodily harm, what have you done for the environment?
You and CT are really having a problem with the facts that I'm giving you but the Ford is harder to control off road than the TRD, especially when you pick up some speed. You may not think that that's relevant CT but I see it as shortfall of the Ranger package because the suspension is not as adept to off roading as the TRD package. You guys can rationalize that to make yourselves feel better but that's just the way it is. Your 4x4 will take you places that a PreRunner can't go but the TRD PreRunner's suspension is still superior to the suspension offered by Ford.
If you guys think that I'm an evil Californian by hitting a pre-determined trail at more than a few miles an hour so be it. At least I stay in specified areas when I do that and it allows me to get to places in one day that you guys may take in two or three. Anyway cpousnr, until I hear that Toyota is being sued for false advertising, or Ford making the same claim tha they're the best selling truck in So. Ca., I'll continue to know you're incorrect again.
Well, Toyota also claims the Tacoma has 12" ground clearance. Guess they get away wiht it because somewhere on the vehicle there is 12" of clearance.
I measured and have a picture of about 10" clearance, slightly less actually, at the rear differential of a Tacoma (my trusty Stanley tape measure shows it rather well).
My pet peeve on 4 wheelers hurting the environment is the fools that do depart the existing roads, without regard to what they are running over.
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/Heraud/Ford/Ranger/1999O.asp
Maybe some of this lies in what each of us wants a truck to do off-road.
While you off-road primarily for recreation, I do it primarily to get to a certain destination. To me, speed is irrelevant. Not getting stuck or banging up my truck is my primary concern. When I go off-road for recreational purposes, it is with a vehicle made exclusively for that purpose, such as a 4-wheeler or snowmobile. Then, fun at speed is tops on the list.
For the environmentally conscious, Redline makes 4 cycle snowmobiles. If I can ever pony up the cash, I'd love to get one. Check out their website. They're really cool looking, like something out of a Bond film.
the action is very unclear. As it is thought,
firewood cutting will be prohibited which will
increase the chances of forest or brush fires,
cattle grazing will be eliminated and more."
Firewood cutting has NOTHING to do with forest fires. In fact, the opposite is quite true.
It may have been private property, but if it was, there was no mention of it on the show.
I took the little lady out this weekend and did Georgia Pass (by Breckenridge). It was a fun little trail. Not too difficult and it had a few fun water crossings.
Vinny-if it makes you happy, I finally got a few scratches on my truck.
As far as the TRD suspension... I have never said it wasn't a good suspension.. What I keep saying is my Ranger gets me where I want to go, yes I may get there 3 minutes behind you, or I may get bumped around a bit more, but hey, I got there and for about 3-5K less!! You must really ask yourself how often do you get the full use out of the TRD package? the locker? You can only engage it in low and at under 5mph, Suspension is for offroad not freeway or streets. And as I keep saying over 90% of 4x4's never even touch a dirt road. And don't pull my leg and say you have your truck offroad more than on street...
I just turned 32K on my 98 Ranger XLT 4x4 stepside SC and still runs great too! No problems, not one....
and to respond to roads for access. Where does it say the wilderness has to be easy. wilderness is not for PEOPLE its for ITSELF. Most of my enjoyment in the wilderness is in the quiet and the beauty that acompanies the acheivment of reaching your destiny.
for example: mt. Evans and Mt. Beirstadt are both 14,000+ ft. and seperated by less than a half mile (Line of sight) and one of the most jagged ridgelines. You can drive up mount Evans (thank you US corp of engineers). Where as Beirdstadt is a 4000 ft vertical hike/climb from guanella pass. Let me tell you which summit is more rewarding.
another example: Skiing : Skiing is fun. Skiing at resorts with lifts and other amenities is a good way to spend a day outdoors. Now a great way to spend it is Pick a peak , hike it , then ski it. that One run is more rewarding than 200 runs at any resort.
My point being that our mechanized vehicle are not required for our enjoyment of the outdoors. if you remove the roads the accomplishment of your goal will be just tyhat much more rewarding..
CP... havnt gotten my Hail damage looked at yet. Allstate has said they will fix it or cut me a check for the cost of the repairs. I havnt decided what im going to do yet... its ony a $100 deductable
Hmmm Smokey the Bear you aren't.
BTW if your concerned about the environment, why do you not just ride a mountain bike vs the Tacoma?
thats quite a fire down south CP..
It looks almost brand new the way they shined it up.
My boss just moved into a new place in Conifer this weekend. Gotta tweek him a bit tomorrow.