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Are hybrids reliable? Costly to service?
Are hybrids reliable? Are they more costly to service than a regular car?
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There seem to be many more complaints for hybrids than the non-hybrids of Toyota and Honda. Maybe the techs. simply do not know how to work on them.
quote-Bruce of Baltimore (1/26/02):
Prius is one of the most troublesome cars I've ever owned. Over the year I own it I had to take it to the dealership over 10 times for major repairs. The service was dreadful. The same problem needed to be repaired over, and over and over...-end I discovered many complains similar to the one above when I did a simple search for problems. Not encouraging.
A better question is "If a new hybrid has a problem in an area w/o a dealer that sells hybrids, who can service them?".
I am glad you finally got your problem fixed and have not had any reoccurences,
YMMV,
MidCow
This is why GM is backing off of the hybrid program.
http://ev1-club.power.net/archive/031219/jpg/after2.htm
What happens when out of warranty? I would not want to find out.
I supppose the same thing can be said about diesels. Your corner mechanic really can't work on them.-end
Your statement could not be further from the truth. Diesel engines are easy to work on. Many diesel owners do their own maint. and repairs due to the simplicity of a diesel. If you have the skills to work on a gasoline engine, you can work on a diesel.
jason- In post #19 why was it necessary to veer off topic and make a false statement about diesels and make a negative comment about TDI? My previous post was not a personal attack and in no way directed toward you. By posting negative comments directed at the type of vehicle I own when TDI and diesel are not the subject of the topic I can only conclude you are attempting to inflame the discussion.
Hybrids are complex systems that are new. Until they are more common the skills to repair them will be rare.
How about the Turbo? How about 30,000 PSI computer controlled common rail direct injection system? How about complex aftertreatment and exhaust filters? Remember, when the modern diesel engines arrive in U.S with LSD, almost everything will be new, from fuel, engine, to exhaust. Modern diesels will be more alien than gas-electric hybrids.
What is different with HSD hybrid is the simplified hardware. A number of many different jobs such as starter, alternator, CVT, electric propulsion, regen braking, etc... are consolidated into one Hybrid Transaxle unit. HT is also extremely simple and is about the size of a traditional transmission.
Dennis
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For hybrids,probably the only alternative will be some type of modular swap-out at the hybrid dealer. I doubt the dealer will be disassembling and rebuilding major systems on hybrids.
Of course, the clever home mechanic can do certain things on a new car, depending on skill level, but I don't see any of them taking apart major componentry anymore like in the old days.
As for reliability, it's the same answer as always -- "it depends" in the case of a diesel (which make of diesel and how it is maintained), and it's "nobody knows yet" for the hybrids, as most haven't yet accumulated enough miles/time to test the systems thoroughly and plot replacement costs for batteries, etc.
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/specialreports/articles/103708/arti- cle.html
There are plenty of diesel mechanics. They work on the tractor-trailers and diesel-powered farm trucks.
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RELIABILITY:
The only difference between a Civic HX and a Civic Hybrid is the battery. In all other respects they are the same... even the transmission. So you can expect the Hybrid to last as long as any other Honda car (i.e. forever).
But what about the battery? That's the great mystery, so I advise using my approach:
- Use the battery minimally.
Troy
How about the electric motor, regen equipment, charging equipment, computerization to keep it all going correctly. IMA as simple as it is compared to HSD still adds over 300 lbs of complex equipment. That is about $10 a pound. The price of filet mignon at Costco.
computerization - same as any other Civic
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Nope. The REAL issue is the battery. How long will it last?
1. OEM Whole pack replacement. A costly repair for a car with...say 200K miles.
2. Check junk yards for used, guaranteed whole packs at a discount.
3. With the popularity of hybrids a testing system could come available for each individual battery cell. Failed cells could be replaced with new or guaranteed used ones.
4. Drive it with less performance. Personally, I'd likely still beat the EPA of the car.
troy
Comparing a modern automatic transmission to the THS/HSD system I know which one I expect will last the longest...the simplicity of design of the mechanical components in the hybrid drive make mechanical failure much less likely.
After 55,000 on our 2002 Prius we've had no issues except for the utterly mediocre Bridgestone tires.
And any trend which forces me to go to the dealership for service is a BAD THING. For the 30K checkup on my car, my dealer wanted $550. My local, trusted mechanic did it for $250.
I totally agree. The sooner you can be weaned from the dealer the better. It took us too long to find someone competent to work on our Lexus. That would be the biggest drawback to a hybrid, finding anyone outside the dealership to work on them. And they will need work if you keep them past the warranty.
Next question?
If that is oil, filter and lube with a list of items to check. I get that on my Suburban at a Chevy dealer I have never bought a car from for $21.99
Maybe what's really going on is that the Prius doesn't require the large checklist until 35-40K.
Either way, I flat out don't believe that a real "30K" check could be $45. The mechanic hours alone would be 3 times that.
"checkouts" are how dealers do not needed work & pad their pockets with your money.
troy
Most Prius service calls will be oil change, rotate tires and fill the washer fluid. Probably the most complicated activity for routine maintenance is replacing the coolant, since there are two coolant systems to drain and fill.
The truth is most dealer service departments pay their way by selling "packages" of services that are not required, and sometimes are not recommended by the automaker (example: My former Volvo dealer liked to sell you a "fuel injector service" which consisted of dumping a bottle of Techron in the fuel tank for $15. This in spite of a TSB from Volvo advising against the use of any additive in engine oil or fuel).
I've found the car (Prius) and the dealer that have made life just a heck of a lot easier. Even their prices for maintenance parts have been more than reasonable. As to the Prius, I think the only downside to sevice is that you have no choice but to go to Toyota exclusively. There may be exceptions but the bottom line is ....It's
a special car for now and only time and technology will change this scenario.
Culliganman ( My Dealer's My Friend & My Car Is My Prize)
So now we see the root of the problem !! Here is a poster who is so incredibly stubborn to the point that he waits 30 YEARS before buying a Toyota because ONE new car left him stranded.....
Now we can see why the hesitance to buy Hybrids - he doesn't want to buy one, get stranded, and be forced to wait 30 MORE YEARS before he tries the technology again !!
And yet, he owns a 1990 Lexus, which was in only it's SECOND YEAR as a car line in 1990.....
(OK I'm confused again !!)
Gary, explain to us why you can risk a $35,000 Lexus (a Toyota product) and are unwilling to "risk" a $25,000 Hybrid 14 years later?
Very good question. We were not married when my wife bought that Lexus. If we had been together I would have talked her into staying with the Mercedes and Porsche that she sold when she bought the Lexus. In fact if they had not come out with a suspension upgrade for free the first year she would have taken it back. She has spent about $18k in routine maintenance and repairs on the LS400. That is too much in my opinion. They charge 100 bucks for an oil change. It is a good car, but expensive to maintain. Especially at the Lexus dealership. I won't know until my Suburban is 15 years old if it is as expensive to maintain. It was not for the first 7 years. I had a 6 year 75k mile B-B warranty that was a waste of $1100.
And about the $18K in maintenance, no hybrid could EVER be expected to be that expensive to maintain, could it?
I would hope not. One early poster claimed his Prius had $15k in repair covered by warranty. It would get to the point of getting rid of the car before you would spend that kind of money. The Lexus and other luxury cars are just expensive to get serviced. They depend on buyer loyalty & deep pockets to keep them coming to the dealership.
How would you know if you only had it 3 years? I had NO problems with the last 4 Chevy trucks I owned. I only kept them 3 years and sold them. This Suburban is the longest I have owned a vehicle. Lexus of El Cajon charged $109 for the last oil change before I found an independent repair shop. They give you a big printout and tell you that your car that is worth about $4000 needs $5900 worth of work. Our Independent fixed everything for $1100. Lexus is a rip-off for service any way you would like to spell it....
Culliganman(lovin it)