I wonder if the front upright styling is due to European pedestrian impact requirements? It certainly helped you out, I think, reducing the resulting damage. I just recently helped a woman in a mid nineties Accord who had struck a full size doe. The animal nicked the bumper, missed the lights and hood completely as it's legs were taken out from under her. The resulting impact on the drivers side windshield left a hole the size of a volleyball. It pays to have a bit taller front end I think. :surprise:
Your position and opinion are the reason for so many models in the market. However the market votes with it's wallet/pocketbook and while the SS is likely to appeal to a niche GM buyer it will never draw clientele from the majority of midsize buyers.
Until otherwise proven it's main problem is that it is a Chevy and this excess baggage is difficult to unload.
Just by posting that buyers should consider a 5.3L V8 engine shows that you might be out of touch with the market. Did you miss the memo 12 years ago that the US market is looking for ultra efficient 4c midsized vehicles?
You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by trying to induce the midsized buyer to get into a V8! It's a common failing of the detroiters over the last 15 years as evidenced by their plummeting market shares ( see Ford memo to employees yesterday ).
The Impalla SS V8 is likely a nice vehicle. But after they sell 1200 units to the die-hards how do you fill a factory with this vehicle?
I guess that you haven't read all of the 2007 Camry posts. I also had a 2004 Toyota Camry. My 2007 is not the same car. You can't make a statement like, I had the old one and the new one must also be good. It is as different as night and day driving each of these years. Like I said " I have purchased many Toyota autos and this is the last".
Here is a small piece of feedback on the 2007 Camry. I find the bisque interior extremely attractive, far superior to the grey interior that is so common in many previous Camrys and Accords. Please manufacture more Bisque interior cars - for wider availability.
I think the bisque interior definitely depends on the exterior color. With black, silver, or gray exterior, I would only want a gray or black interior. For red or blue, bisque may be acceptable, but I'd still prefer black or gray. Had only bisque been available, I wouldn't be driving a Camry (I only like silver and gray cars and thus black or gray interiors).
Just by posting that buyers should consider a 5.3L V8 engine shows that you might be out of touch with the market. Did you miss the memo 12 years ago that the US market is looking for ultra efficient 4c midsized vehicles?
The "market" is less a reflection of what people think they want than the degree of success of Madison Avenue advertising hype which Toyota has been enjoying in promoting its mediocre cars as "quality paradigms."
I could care less about a crappy 4 cylinder engine. I already have one of these in a Subaru Outback and it gives poorer highway fuel mileage than my Impala SS sans the breathtaking acceleraton and smooth automatic transmission perfectly mated to the car's power plant.
Your perception of GM is based not on their present level of quality but the "reputational baggage" of the '80's and '90's whereas today's GM car is a far cry from then in both quality and features. The most amusing thing, however, is that while GM's quality curve is rising, Toyota's is falling as evidenced by the many complaints on the automotive boards and their escalating number of vehicle recalls but this fact has not yet become widely known to the market as the company still enjoys the quality reputation of the 80's and 90's. That will change in due time as it eventually did for Mercedes.
Folks, this discussion is dedicated to the Camry. There are existing comparison topics that may be helpful and, of course, any new one may be created at any time. Just go to the top level Camry board and hit the Add a Discussion link.
Continuing debate about other vehicles doesn't belong here.
You may feel that the breathtaking V8 is what pushes your buttons which as I said is why there are so many models. But....
since well over 60% of all midsized vehicles are 4c models, and possibly as much as 75% taking the Prius, Corolla and Civic into account, your view of the wants of the American buying public are about 25 yrs out of date.
This is not a 'Toyota-sponsered' Madison Ave conspiracy to emasculate the detroiters it's simply a reflection of what the public wants across every product line; Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Subaru, VW and now even Ford and GM. Niche vehicles like the SS are nice have a limited shelf life.
your view of the wants of the American buying public are about 25 yrs out of date.
As I said, I could care less about what you perceive to be the general public's appetite for whiny little 4 cylinder engines. However, I am gratified by GM's consideration in catering to my particular driving tastes by making a scrumptious 8 cylinder masterpiece in the 5.3 liter variable displacement V-8: 4 cylinders if I want to creep along, 8 if I want a real engine.
Niche vehicles like the SS are nice have a limited shelf life.
Limited shelf life, huh? Are you aware just how many decades GM has been making available cars with the SS designation? As long as Toyota has been selling cars in the U.S., that's how long.
And, oh yes, more about that legendary Toyota quality:
"Andrew Phillips of Nikko Citigroup stated "Toyota's resources have been stretched quite a bit by the big increases in volume." Shinsei Securities analyst Yasuhiro Matsumoto lays the blame for Toyota’s declining quality squarely on Katsuaki Watanabe’s shoulders. He claims the CEO’s constant focus on cost cutting has created devastating production glitches. The resulting quality issues have become so alarming that Watanabe recently admitted, "I take this seriously and see it as a crisis."'
The resulting quality issues have become so alarming that Watanabe recently admitted, "I take this seriously and see it as a crisis."'
A perceived crisis for Toyota might be the norm for other manufacturers. There are some growing pains (much to the delight of some). The difference between Toyota and the others is money. Toyota has approx. 20 billion in cash, time deposits and marketable securities. They have the funds to fix the current glitch.
If you want the truth about cars, read this unbiased article.
C:\Documents and Settings\lascep\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\OLK38\article.htm
We can't get to that article. It's on your C drive. You would need to actually attach it or point to where you found it on the internet by copying the path from your browser. I would be interested in reading it. Thanks!
--"Limited shelf life, huh? Are you aware just how many decades GM has been making available cars with the SS designation? As long as Toyota has been selling cars in the U.S., that's how long."--
We appreciate your taking the time to participate in a Camry discussion. Your unwarranted passion for GM's antiquated OHV technology is at least an amusing diversion in this discussion. But the real proof of the pudding is that people are voting with their wallets at car purchase time - and have been for the past two and a half decades. No amount of jingoistic chromed or blackened geegaws plastered on exposed body panels harking back to better times for GM is apt to change that fact. You enjoy your 5.3L OHV V8 behemoth. I'll wave as my whiney 2.7L DOHC 6-cyl glides silently by while you're filling yours up at the gas station.
..when a 300HP+ V8 is stuck in a car with the front wheel drive (no, it's not NASCAR and those are sticker lights too). Take your Chevy out on the highway and enjoy it but a handling and cornering monster it ain't. See a nice Lexus GS430 for that. While Impala SS can't even touch it, the Australian-made GTO can and it's the last of the breed for GM - too bad. Holden Commodore on which it is based and its countless variations would actually give the new Camry a run for its money but that would just be too simple for GM.
This is a dedicated discussion about the Camry. There are a number of Toyota discussions alive and kicking on the Automotive News & Views board where your thoughts about what's up (or down) with Toyota the manufacturer may be pursued.
And as I've mentioned previously, comparos are welcome, but they should be set up in their own discussions at this link: Toyota Camry.
That's way too many threads to keep track of though... The bottom line is that any V8 proposition makes sense in a car that has a rear-wheel or 4WD drive. The powerful V6 in the new Camry is already pushing it and the torque steer is becoming noticeable.
Well after reading about Toyotas for the last year or so, I concluded it would be the right car for me. Picked it up at the dealers 36 miles from home, No Inspection sticker & no left signal light. Hope this is not a n indication as to what to expect in the future.
Well, I broke my deal with Toyota dealer today. I went there, saw the car that was waiting there for me. I felt sad that I need to break the deal and not taking the car home. It looked so nice. I waited for 15 minutes, then a manager came and asked why am I waiting I said that I am waiting for a manager to approve my credit for the deposit as I spoke to the sales person and he said I will get the deposit back. The manager said that it the NJ law not to give the deposit back. After some conversations, he said I need to wait for that particular sales guy. Again after few requests the sales guy came and gave me the refund. At the end, I get the money back, . But what amazed me is the behaviour change from the date of purchase and the date of refund. Also, they completely denied that there is any problem with Camry 2007.
Did you break the deal only because of the possible transmission problem? That's not happening but in a relatively small number of the Camrys I thought... If that was the reason did you test drive the one they had for you to see if it had the problem? That is a let down after you have been waiting and wanting it for a while. I would be down too.
I have been following your story and I am sad for you. I also had a similar decision to make about a year and a half ago, when i was planning on buying a new 05 Highlander V6. The forums were full of posts about hesitations on this vehicle. I sweated and sweated, test drove and test drove, found no hesitations. Still I wondered: was it going to raise it's head several months later?
I made the plunge, and i now have 20thousand something miles on the vehicle, and NO hesitation. In fact, it has been an excellent vehicle.
I hope you haven't made a decision based on comments in this fourm. It is imperative that you drive the exact vehicle you plan to buy, and test it in your regular everyday driving patterns to correctly know if it is right for you.
Good luck
PS: I bought a 2007 Camry HYBRID to add to my Highlander. and love it, altho it is a bit more $.
First, thanks for following my posts. Sorry to say, but yes I made the decision after hearing about the hesitation here in the forum. I did not drive that particular vehicle that was waiting for me. I was little pissed with the dealership, otherwise I could have asked about the test drive.
As you guys are saying, I am more sad now about breaking the deal. I need a vehicle very soon. I waited for this camry for so long, went on 8/7 and made a deal. OTD was 21800 which was not great, but it was a ok deal.On 8/8, one of my friend told me about this forum, and I was scared after reading all these issues. I just graduated this May, I have a new job and I never bought a new car. I live in a city. I do not have anybody to come with me and test drive the vehicle. If this car has any problem, I will be screwed, mentally and financially, apart from the fact that I may be involved in an accident because of the car (if there is any problem.
Well, as I said, it was very painful. I saw the car and saw my name on it in paper and still could not decide what to do! Finally, went inside and cancelled.
Well, now you can start fresh. If you have the time, test drive a Camry and see how it behaves for YOU. Perhaps you can even get a better deal than the one you cancelled, and make the whole thing feel better. But, BE SURE to drive the actual car you are considering buying.
No agrument that it is a big decision, but I doubt that you will be "scr%#ed". If the car you end up buying REALY has a serious defect, and you interact with Toyota rationaly, they will be very accomodating.....
I don't think I will get a better deal overall as they price went up $275. But, I can definitely look around and drive a few.
One thing bothers me! Some people are saying that the problem developed after 800, 1700 or even 5000 miles. I got more scared about the problem beacuse that can come later.
One thing bothers me! Some people are saying that the problem developed after 800, 1700 or even 5000 miles. I got more scared about the problem beacuse that can come later.
I read the exact same words on these forums a year and a half ago about the Highlander...As I said, 20,xxx miles later absolutely NO hesitation. I even posted that in the forums, and the folks who were the loudest and most frequent posters would say that THEY would be able to detect that hesitation in my car!
I tried to make my Highlander hesitate, over and over again, even asked the posters who experienced it to give exact steps to get it to hesitate....I never did get that hesitation.
Please understand that there are folks who are very upset with their cars, and may or may not be rational about it posting on the internet. I once had a car that I was totaly happy with, until i read on the internet that the steering wheel was slightly off-center to the drivers seat. I hadn't noticed, but now, i noticed it every time I drove that car. LOL power of suggestion
Some years ago, I had a toyota with a problem. (not serious, just rattles, but it was a brand NEW car, and expensive for me), and the dealer kept saying "normal", or "can not duplicate"...i got very annoyed, and perhaps was not rational with my dealings with them. Long story short, I went to another dealer, with a much more tempered approach, and got the issues resolved.
Thanks for your suggestion. I am keeping my eyes open. I will probably wait again 1 month before I go and search for cars again. Actually I need a car very badly, so don't know what to do know. the accord and altima is on sale, but not sure whether I want them.
I know that the first purchase is very very emotional as is the first new vehicle one buys.
From a longer viewpoint the first thing I do to my new cars, although I usually buy used cars, is 'key' my own vehicle. I never have to worry about dings, dents, scratches or road debris ever again. It takes a lot of the emotion out of the process.
Suggestion: buy a good Certified Used vehicle that you can drive til it turns to dust. It will have its own character and flaws but you will likely save a good chunk of money.
Or...
If you are not going to drive that many miles, abt 15K or so, consider leasing a new Camry. Then if it's not performing to your liking you are only 'on the hook' for 3 yrs. You just give it back. Buying new vehilecs is way overrated and way too emotional.
It's four circles of rubber carrying steel and plastic all of which will be worthless in 12-15 years at which time it will look a mess.
Thanks. I am considering the lease option too. But I really hope that they come up with a TSB and solve everybody's problem (or may be that's impossible).
I was thinking a late-model used car might be a good option also. I bought a 2-year-old 1980 Volvo 240 with 31K miles for $8000 back when a new one would have cost about $12,000.
Yes, it had a few dings and broken interior trim (much of which I eventually replaced with junkyard parts), but it served me reliably for 21 years.
The upshot is that in 2003 when I sold it, there wouldn't have been any difference if it had been a 1982 model instead of a 1980.
Another thought: would you consider a manual transmission Camry? I know they're as rare as the proverbial hen's teeth, but they wouldn't be subject to hesitation or cruise control kickdown problems, since you'd be in full control of the gear changes.
One big downside is that the car would be nearly impossible to sell, but if you keep it forever like I did with my Volvo, that won't matter.
The manual market is a lot smaller so it takes longer to sell yourself but as a trade in they don't discount the price of your trade in because it's a manual shift car. At least that's been my experience. Anyone else had the same experience???
priggly, your love for Chevys aside, it would be nice if you post the whole article, so the forum readers can be assured that one statement you quoted from the article in the WSJ isn't taken out of context. The article you linked to, it seems, is only available to subscribers.
Without the whole article as reference, your comment about snowballing quality issues... becomes YOUR opinion, and should be stated as such.
Without the whole article as reference, your comment about snowballing quality issues... becomes YOUR opinion, and should be stated as such.
I am not a subscriber either so I can't post the whole article but here is some more from the carconnection.com:
"Toyota Cutting New Products?
Toyota may be slowing down the number of new products it is developing in response to an increased number of recalls, the Wall Street Journal reported in its online edition Thursday. The report says the slowdown might only equal six months or so in the company's product cycle, but would be a major acknowledgement that even the world's richest car company may be expanding too fast. The paper cites several major, recent recalls including those on Tundra pickups and the Prius hybrid as influencing the discussion at Toyota. Vehicle lines that could be affected include the Sienna minivan, Avalon sedan, and Camry Solara coupe. Last year, Toyota recalled 2.38 million vehicles in the U.S., or about 120,000 more than it sold in the year."
No, it's not simply my opinion so don't try to twist the words around.
"Last year, Toyota recalled 2.38 million vehicles in the U.S., or about 120,000 more than it sold in the year."
If a car company has to recall more cars than they sell during the entire year, most objective observers would say they have a problem, denials of the aficionados notwithstanding.
Comments
CE manual and auto - no increase
SE 4 cyl, - +$150
LE, XLE 4 cyl. - +$275
LE, XLE, SE V6 - +$300
No price increases on options and packages.
This might be new?
IZ - Fleet Convenience Pkg - $0 - Front License Plate Bracket
Until otherwise proven it's main problem is that it is a Chevy and this excess baggage is difficult to unload.
Just by posting that buyers should consider a 5.3L V8 engine shows that you might be out of touch with the market. Did you miss the memo 12 years ago that the US market is looking for ultra efficient 4c midsized vehicles?
You are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole by trying to induce the midsized buyer to get into a V8! It's a common failing of the detroiters over the last 15 years as evidenced by their plummeting market shares ( see Ford memo to employees yesterday ).
The Impalla SS V8 is likely a nice vehicle. But after they sell 1200 units to the die-hards how do you fill a factory with this vehicle?
LOL!
Thanks -- Tidewater.
Hopefully the Toyota engineers are working on the hesitation problems some I4 owners are having.
The dealers are caught in the middle.
They get blasted from the owners but don't know what to do without a TSB or guidance from Toyota.
The "market" is less a reflection of what people think they want than the degree of success of Madison Avenue advertising hype which Toyota has been enjoying in promoting its mediocre cars as "quality paradigms."
I could care less about a crappy 4 cylinder engine. I already have one of these in a Subaru Outback and it gives poorer highway fuel mileage than my Impala SS sans the breathtaking acceleraton and smooth automatic transmission perfectly mated to the car's power plant.
Your perception of GM is based not on their present level of quality but the "reputational baggage" of the '80's and '90's whereas today's GM car is a far cry from then in both quality and features. The most amusing thing, however, is that while GM's quality curve is rising, Toyota's is falling as evidenced by the many complaints on the automotive boards and their escalating number of vehicle recalls but this fact has not yet become widely known to the market as the company still enjoys the quality reputation of the 80's and 90's. That will change in due time as it eventually did for Mercedes.
Continuing debate about other vehicles doesn't belong here.
Thanks.
since well over 60% of all midsized vehicles are 4c models, and possibly as much as 75% taking the Prius, Corolla and Civic into account, your view of the wants of the American buying public are about 25 yrs out of date.
This is not a 'Toyota-sponsered' Madison Ave conspiracy to emasculate the detroiters it's simply a reflection of what the public wants across every product line; Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Subaru, VW and now even Ford and GM. Niche vehicles like the SS are nice have a limited shelf life.
As I said, I could care less about what you perceive to be the general public's appetite for whiny little 4 cylinder engines. However, I am gratified by GM's consideration in catering to my particular driving tastes by making a scrumptious 8 cylinder masterpiece in the 5.3 liter variable displacement V-8: 4 cylinders if I want to creep along, 8 if I want a real engine.
Niche vehicles like the SS are nice have a limited shelf life.
Limited shelf life, huh? Are you aware just how many decades GM has been making available cars with the SS designation? As long as Toyota has been selling cars in the U.S., that's how long.
And, oh yes, more about that legendary Toyota quality:
"Andrew Phillips of Nikko Citigroup stated "Toyota's resources have been stretched quite a bit by the big increases in volume." Shinsei Securities analyst Yasuhiro Matsumoto lays the blame for Toyota’s declining quality squarely on Katsuaki Watanabe’s shoulders. He claims the CEO’s constant focus on cost cutting has created devastating production glitches. The resulting quality issues have become so alarming that Watanabe recently admitted, "I take this seriously and see it as a crisis."'
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2043
A perceived crisis for Toyota might be the norm for other manufacturers. There are some growing pains (much to the delight of some). The difference between Toyota and the others is money. Toyota has approx. 20 billion in cash, time deposits and marketable securities. They have the funds to fix the current glitch.
If you want the truth about cars, read this unbiased article.
C:\Documents and Settings\lascep\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\OLK38\article.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=aGEj8tQXXupw&refer=japan
We appreciate your taking the time to participate in a Camry discussion. Your unwarranted passion for GM's antiquated OHV technology is at least an amusing diversion in this discussion. But the real proof of the pudding is that people are voting with their wallets at car purchase time - and have been for the past two and a half decades. No amount of jingoistic chromed or blackened geegaws plastered on exposed body panels harking back to better times for GM is apt to change that fact. You enjoy your 5.3L OHV V8 behemoth. I'll wave as my whiney 2.7L DOHC 6-cyl glides silently by while you're filling yours up at the gas station.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060818/FREE/60816004/1024/L- atestNews
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/vehicleentry?vehicleid=4
And as I've mentioned previously, comparos are welcome, but they should be set up in their own discussions at this link: Toyota Camry.
Thanks!
Just wanted to share this with you all.
I made the plunge, and i now have 20thousand something miles on the vehicle, and NO hesitation. In fact, it has been an excellent vehicle.
I hope you haven't made a decision based on comments in this fourm. It is imperative that you drive the exact vehicle you plan to buy, and test it in your regular everyday driving patterns to correctly know if it is right for you.
Good luck
PS: I bought a 2007 Camry HYBRID to add to my Highlander. and love it, altho it is a bit more $.
As you guys are saying, I am more sad now about breaking the deal. I need a vehicle very soon. I waited for this camry for so long, went on 8/7 and made a deal. OTD was 21800 which was not great, but it was a ok deal.On 8/8, one of my friend told me about this forum, and I was scared after reading all these issues. I just graduated this May, I have a new job and I never bought a new car. I live in a city. I do not have anybody to come with me and test drive the vehicle. If this car has any problem, I will be screwed, mentally and financially, apart from the fact that I may be involved in an accident because of the car (if there is any problem.
Well, as I said, it was very painful. I saw the car and saw my name on it in paper and still could not decide what to do! Finally, went inside and cancelled.
No agrument that it is a big decision, but I doubt that you will be "scr%#ed". If the car you end up buying REALY has a serious defect, and you interact with Toyota rationaly, they will be very accomodating.....
One thing bothers me! Some people are saying that the problem developed after 800, 1700 or even 5000 miles. I got more scared about the problem beacuse that can come later.
Please suggest.
I read the exact same words on these forums a year and a half ago about the Highlander...As I said, 20,xxx miles later absolutely NO hesitation. I even posted that in the forums, and the folks who were the loudest and most frequent posters would say that THEY would be able to detect that hesitation in my car!
I tried to make my Highlander hesitate, over and over again, even asked the posters who experienced it to give exact steps to get it to hesitate....I never did get that hesitation.
Please understand that there are folks who are very upset with their cars, and may or may not be rational about it posting on the internet. I once had a car that I was totaly happy with, until i read on the internet that the steering wheel was slightly off-center to the drivers seat. I hadn't noticed, but now, i noticed it every time I drove that car. LOL power of suggestion
Some years ago, I had a toyota with a problem. (not serious, just rattles, but it was a brand NEW car, and expensive for me), and the dealer kept saying "normal", or "can not duplicate"...i got very annoyed, and perhaps was not rational with my dealings with them. Long story short, I went to another dealer, with a much more tempered approach, and got the issues resolved.
From a longer viewpoint the first thing I do to my new cars, although I usually buy used cars, is 'key' my own vehicle. I never have to worry about dings, dents, scratches or road debris ever again. It takes a lot of the emotion out of the process.
Suggestion: buy a good Certified Used vehicle that you can drive til it turns to dust. It will have its own character and flaws but you will likely save a good chunk of money.
Or...
If you are not going to drive that many miles, abt 15K or so, consider leasing a new Camry. Then if it's not performing to your liking you are only 'on the hook' for 3 yrs. You just give it back. Buying new vehilecs is way overrated and way too emotional.
It's four circles of rubber carrying steel and plastic all of which will be worthless in 12-15 years at which time it will look a mess.
Yes, it had a few dings and broken interior trim (much of which I eventually replaced with junkyard parts), but it served me reliably for 21 years.
The upshot is that in 2003 when I sold it, there wouldn't have been any difference if it had been a 1982 model instead of a 1980.
One big downside is that the car would be nearly impossible to sell, but if you keep it forever like I did with my Volvo, that won't matter.
Go with your manual - 5000 (3 zeroes) miles or 6 months, which ever comes first.
http://online.wsj.com/public/us
It's obviously getting increasingly difficult to overlook or deny the company's snowballing quality issues.
Without the whole article as reference, your comment about snowballing quality issues... becomes YOUR opinion, and should be stated as such.
I am not a subscriber either so I can't post the whole article but here is some more from the carconnection.com:
"Toyota Cutting New Products?
Toyota may be slowing down the number of new products it is developing in response to an increased number of recalls, the Wall Street Journal reported in its online edition Thursday. The report says the slowdown might only equal six months or so in the company's product cycle, but would be a major acknowledgement that even the world's richest car company may be expanding too fast. The paper cites several major, recent recalls including those on Tundra pickups and the Prius hybrid as influencing the discussion at Toyota. Vehicle lines that could be affected include the Sienna minivan, Avalon sedan, and Camry Solara coupe. Last year, Toyota recalled 2.38 million vehicles in the U.S., or about 120,000 more than it sold in the year."
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News/Daily_Auto_News_Aug_25- _2006.S173.A10797.html
No, it's not simply my opinion so don't try to twist the words around.
"Last year, Toyota recalled 2.38 million vehicles in the U.S., or about 120,000 more than it sold in the year."
If a car company has to recall more cars than they sell during the entire year, most objective observers would say they have a problem, denials of the aficionados notwithstanding.