Insurance and NJ No-Point Ticket option

nickarsenic · May 2005

I was ticketed at 78 in a 45. I never had a ticket before and don't plan on getting one again. (never got a moving violation, I once got a ticket for my mom not having a front liscence plate). I really don't want to have points on my insurance etc. How do I plea, what do I do?

qbrozen · May 2005

go back and read this forum. plenty of information you could benefit from.

qbrozen · May 2005

judge will read list of names, each person stands up and pleads guilty or not guilty. After all names are read and all pleas entered, he will tell everyone who pleaded not guilty to go see the prosecutor.

I'm pretty sure that officer not showing up thing is an urban legend. I heard at one time that they would simply put you on hold while they called the officer in ... or they would reschedule you. I can't say for sure, but, frankly, I'd be surprised if it was so easy to get off in such a way.

athensguy · May 2005

OK so here's the story, me(17) and my friends (17-19) were driving to a b-day/graduation party and i was doing 70 in a 55 (only slightly faster than traffic) and got pulled over. Well first of all i had 4 passengers w/ me who weren't family and under 21. I got a ticket for that and another 15 over the limit. I'm really scared because the speeding is a 2 point offense and i'm not sure what the other offense is worth but in GA people under 21 who get 4 or more points get the license suspended. I'm freaking out and I don't know how i'm going to resolve this! Oh yeah it was on Sat. of memorial day weekend and it was a state trooper. HELP ME PLEASE!!! Driving is my life! I have a clean driving record.

yaconjo · May 2005

I have 2 questions. If I plead "not guilty" to a traffic ticket I got this weekend (for going through a red light and I say it was yellow when I entered the intersection) and go to court, where will that be? Are traffic violations handled in the local Municipal court or County court? Also, should I expect to see the arrogant police officer who gave me the ticket? Will he be there in court?

Thank you!!

quagaholic · May 2005

Last night I was caught for doing a u-turn on private property (39:4-66.2), which I think is a 2-pointer. I don't think the place was clearly marked as private, so i was thinking about arguing it (probably without a lawyer). However, I'm 18, have a perfect driving record thus far, and not comfortable with/up for driving back to where I got the ticket (it was in Sayreville, a good hour away from me). Would it be worth arguing? Also, the car I was driving is itself insured, but I am not personally insured... so the insurance will not be affected, correct? And one more, and probably the most important, question: will my parents ever have to find out about this ticket, including if i end up going to court? do they send home letters about getting points or anything like that?

Thanks so much, i was losing sleep over this damn thing.

rangers_nut · May 2005

So cruising down the GSP down in Cape May for the first time ever, heading towards Wildwood on a beautiful Sunday afternoon, to get pulled over for doing ... 100 in a 65. Cop stated that because I hit triple digits he gave me a wreckless driving ticket. Anyone know if that's right? Can he do that? Isn't reckless driving a very hard thing to prove? I mean it was only 35 miles an hr over the speed limit. Now I can't use any of the "Unsafe Driving" deals, cause I've had 2 of them already. Your only allowed 2 in a 5 year period, trying to use a 3rd time is an automatic 4 points. Any suggestions? Please comment! Thanks webmaster@dtcdigital.com

rangers_nut · May 2005

Most likely you'll get letters in the mail from Lawyers saying that your best bet is to hire them for a lawyer. If you can intercept the mail ... do so cause you may get something in the mail from the court. Now if you get point on your DL ... when someone does go to put you on their insurance, either your parents or yourself, it'll reflect and your parents will find out if you go on theirs cause their insurance will be a lot higher cause you got points. If you want, your best bet is to call first ASAP, tell them you wish to plea not guilty, they'll tell you if the date will stay the same of if it changes (this is when you'll get a letter from the courts in the mail telling you of the date change), go to court, plea not guilty to the judge, talk to the prosecutor, ask them if they can drop the points if there is any, ... most likely they'll give you a deal of "Unsafe Driving". Your only granted 2 of these in a 5 yr period. Fines are a little more heavy but gets rid of your points. Something you could argue tho is that if you turned around in like someones driveway, is that why were you pulled over if the owner of the house didnt file the complaint. Good luck man.

vthuppil · May 2005

First of all, thanks for everything that's been posted so far. I learned a great deal. Now yesterday, I got a speeding ticket in Monmouth County, NJ for doing an 80 in a 55. I honestly don't know how fast I was going, the traffic was light and it was 10 p.m., and while I was going faster than other cars, it's not as if I was shooting past them.

Anyway, I live in Philadelphia, so I have the opposite case of all the NJ residents who have posted so far. This is what I found on the Penndot web site, something that I was relieved to see.

"Although reported to PennDOT, minor traffic offenses such as speeding, red light, stop sign, etc., will NOT appear on your driving record. Points will not be assessed to your PA driving record when convicted of a point related offense in a DLC member state."

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/fact_sheets/fs-dlc.pdf

So I am pretty sure that points will not be assessed and my insurance won't go up. Am I correct in my assumption? Secondly, the thing just mentions speeding. I was allegedly speeding 25 mph above the limit, so is it still considered a "minor traffic offense?"

Now since points won't be assessed, would I be able to plead not guilty and ask for a lower fine instead of less points. Should I let the prosecutor know that I don't care about the points since it won't affect me anyway? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

jb_turner · June 2005

Watch your rates skyrocket. You may as well hang up your keys because you are a danger to society.

jb_turner · June 2005

The ticket is still yours mistakes or not the ticket is yours so live with it.

rangers_nut · June 2005

I've heard that some mess ups on tickets can actually get u outta the ticket. But not sure. Secondly, I live over there, if i recall correctly, the sign u saw should have had an arrow saying that the turn is up ahead some more. I'll check tonight on my way home from work. Argument for you would be you miss read the sign that was on the highway thinking that little exit ramp is where you needed to turn. It's possible the judge/prosecutor will go easy on you. thats really just a stupid mistake, nothing worthy of a ticket. Best of luck to ya.

Dan

cadillacmike · June 2005

This sounds messed up to me. I would fight it.

What did you do, go left into the "private property" after making the "exit" ?

If you went into a parking lot, they should have NO jurisdiction over what direction, maneuvers you make in the lot, but then again this is NJ and they are the most ate-up state in the US for traffic. I mean, even if they had a "no left turn" sign, that would apply to INTERSECTIONs not entrances to parking lots / driveways.

Good luck, you'll need it in NJ.

tbone7 · June 2005

I got my first moving violation in over 25 years of driving today in East Rutherford. Going through the Giants Stadium lot outer road (its like a freeway there) - I was going 54 and had no idea the speed limit was 25 (also had no idea I was going 54). Anyway, when the officer wrote the ticket up - he told me I was speaking on my cell phone (but he didn't put it down on the ticket). If I plead not guilty, does the officer have to be there? If so would he actually say something about me being on the cell phone (careless driving I guess?) even if he didn't put it on the ticket. Do I have to plead not guilty if I want to try to get it down to 2 points? Will they even take into consideration that I had no moving violations in 25 years or should I not even bother mentioning it? This is all new to me. Any help would be appreciate. Thanks in advance.

rangers_nut · June 2005

Well, mentioning to the judge about having a clean record for over 25 years may help a lot if you actually go infront of the judge.

Yes you must plea not guilty to try and fight the ticket. Most likely your best bet is to just talk to the prosecutor, try to get him to give you a break, mention to him about the 25 yrs and should offer you the "unsafe driving" plea. it's a higher fine, but carries no points.

Don't believe he'll mention the phone, normally the prosecutor will have talked to the officers prior to the court hearing. he'll take notes, and see what the officer will part with. some cops can be dicks and tell the prosecutor to fry you.

best of luck man

rangers_nut · June 2005

he'll prolly be there. You can plea not guilty, but thing is about going through a red light, you have to be completely through the intersection and on the other side before the light turns red. if your halfway through the intersection and it turns red you just ran a red light.

All tickets are local municipal ... if your nabbed by a state trooper on the turnpike ... wherever you were when u were pulled over (town wise on a map) is where you gotta go to court.

tbone7 · June 2005

Thanks Rangers - I guess my next question is if I plead not guilty and then am asked why I am pleading not guilty what actually is my answer? If you aren't disputing the fact you were speeding you could still plead not guilty? Based on what?

quagaholic · June 2005

yeah that sounds right - i made a right turn onto old spye rd, and my "illegal" turn was in club krome's old parking lot. do you think i could successfully talk my way out, or should i bother with taking pictures?

thanks so much for all of your help!

rangers_nut · June 2005

It's hard to say whether or not the judge would bother dealing with the pics. If you want you really gotta just talk to the prosecutor see if he'll help you out. (the pics may help with him if you plea bargain). If ya want, since it doesnt sound like your local, I'll stop in tomorrow night on my way home n snap a few shots of the signs n that. no trouble and i'll upload them to my site for ya.

Best of luck

rangers_nut · June 2005

Uhm ... in my experience they've never asked me why I'm pleading not guilty. (And i've been to a lot of traffic courts lol). But 98.5% (my estimate) of the people that get tickets and go to court, usually plea not guilty for reasons to bargain down the points. When you call up (which you do have to do to enter a plea of not guilty) they'll prolly reschedule the court date for a couple weeks. When you go into the court, they'll call the calendar and when they read your name you have to stand and just say not guilty to the judge, and he'll instruct you to go talk to the prosecutor. Go see him/her and see what you can do with him cause your fate isn't really with the judge it's with the prosecutor.

Just remember, your innocent until PROVEN guilty. And if they do ask you, just say your hoping to get a lower penalty since you haven't had any tickets in 25 yrs. Thats the usual responce I hear from these guys when they talk to the prosecutor

Good Luck

missjanet · June 2005

My daughter is going to court on Monday to try to plead down her 2-point violation to a lesser offense. Will she only be given the option to take the "unsafe driving" plea which carries a $250 surcharge? Any chance she can plead to something else without the hefty surcharge? Is it worth it?

She doesn't have any other points on her license or insurance. It's just hard figuring out what is the right thing to do in her case. We don't want our insurance to go up & I know NJ has that two-point forgiveness rule. But if she gets another ticket or has an accident, then suddenly she's got a lot more points. So we're still trying to gather information on what to expect and what is our best course of action. At this point we've already committed ourselves to showing up at the Princeton court on Monday, but we just don't know what is the best to hope for or the right way to proceed.

Any advice from those of you who are a lot more knowledgeable would be appreciated.

Thanks.

vthuppil · June 2005

I found out some more information since my last post, but I was hoping someone here clarify something for me.

I live in PA and was speeding in NJ, so according to PennDOT, the points will not be transferred for speeding offenses. So I don't give a damn about the points. I just want to go to court to try and bargain down the fine which is currently over $200.

Someone told me that in Jersey whenever you make an amendment to a ticket, there is automatically a surcharge of $250. This happens whether you're removing the points or lowering the fine or whatever. Is this true?

If this is the case, I might as well not go to court and mail in the fine, since I'll lost more by trying to bargain, not to mention that I have to drive an hour to Middlesex county from Philly.

rangers_nut · June 2005

I'm i'm right, you can't bargain down the fine, you'll actually end up making it higher trying to bargain anything. They bargain points, not fines if I recall correctly.

rangers_nut · June 2005

If I'm right, there is no way to plea down a 2 point ticket anymore. You used to but now since they've made the "unsafe driving" option, your either forced to accept the ticket you have, or take the unsafe driving. Thisis what the prosecutor told me 3 yrs ago when I used both my unsafe drivings.

quagaholic · June 2005

that would be great - thank you SO much!

qbrozen · June 2005

I don't know about that flat surcharge, but you will be charged court fees, not to mention taking the day off from work, driving to the courthouse, spending the better part of the day in court, etc. All for what? Even if you were so incredibly lucky as to get it down to $100, is it worth the other $100 you saved to go through all that? I know my time is worth way more than that to me.

rangers_nut · June 2005

click here for those pics man

tisbe3 · June 2005

Hello all, I have court date tomorrow for going 41 in a 25, a 4-pointer. I plan to ask the prosecutor to reduce it to a lower insurance points violation. I have a pretty good driving record with no moving violations in the past 20 years. I guess they should allow me to drop down to a 2-pointer, but what are the chances they will let me lower it to an "unsafe driving" zero-point violation?

qbrozen · June 2005

hmmmm... we in Vegas?

How about 5:1? Maybe 7:1?

tisbe3 · June 2005

Good guess. I got it down to 2-points, no chance I was getting it any lower. There was loooong line to see the prosecutor and he was in no mood to bargain. Fortunately the 2 points does not put me in a higher tier of insurance premium.

war96pgt · June 2005

I just got out of court today, i had 8 points on my license, and i got 3 tickets, 96 in a 55, reckless driving and unclear plates, my lawyer got the 96 dropped down to a 69 in a 55 which is now a 2 point ticket and got the reckless changed to careless which is another 2 points, and the unclear plates was dropped,(the cop gave me unclear plates becuase i had a license plate frame around the outside of my license plate, my plate was perfectly visible, i guess the cop just didnt like me). so i ended up with 4 points, i was quite worried that i will lose my license, and i need it badly cause im a delivery driver, so when i get home, i jumped on my computer and browse the net to find the laws and license suspension information, and i found out that you need 15 points if you have your license for more than 2 years, my licensed was suspended once already back in early 2002, for having 13 or 14 points,but the points were dropped back down becuase i havent had moving viloations in 2 years,now im back up to 12 points, but its been over 2 years so i would need 15 points to lose my license correct? and also my lawyer said that its rare the dmv will send a letter of suspension for 12 points becuase thats the minimum amount of points for a license suspension.will i get to keep my license? :confuse:

qbrozen · June 2005

well, i'm not following all the numbers, but have you taken into consideration the fact that 3 points come off your license for each full year of clean driving?

Is that what you are saying when you say you had 14 points ... then 2 years went by... so that's why you now have 8? Add the 4 new points for your total of 12? Is that correct?

If the number is 12, I'd certainly be worried. The only statement on the MVS site about suspensions is as follows:
If you accumulate a total of 12 or more points on your driving record, MVC will issue a Notice of Scheduled Suspension of your driving privilege.

So it certainly looks like there is no leeway, but I would hope the lawyer knows better, so maybe you have a chance.

rangers_nut · June 2005

2 points come off each year of full driving not 3.

mumixpd · June 2005

Hi everyone
i went to court in nj for a ticket regrading to failure to stop on a red light right turn. which is $85 dollar and 3 point. I was driving my mom's car(insured) and i am not insured. I took the prosecuter's plea for the unsafe driving charge that resulted of a total of $436(250 surcharge). I took the offer after talking to a private lawyer there who said that spending the $436 was the better option becuase dmv will also charge u for something like $375 for the 3 points. is that ture? this is my first violation and with no insurence, would the 3 points have affected me in anyway and could someone explain to me waht the lawyer has said about the dmv charges ? thanks

ribitee2 · June 2005

Received a tick and officer said just show up in court and I will drop it. Is that possible? can an officer drop a tick, doesn;t the judge have to do that? if officer was able to drop tick wouldn't he be able to do it without court appearance?

Someone with knowledge and insight please halp! and thanks to boot!

xaianjelx · June 2005

Hi everyone,

I recently got two tickets within a few weeks of each other: the first, a 4 pointer, for speeding 43 in a 25 (thought it was 35) and the second, a 2-pointer, for running a red light. I do want to go to court and get the 4 pointer reduced to a 2 and the 2 reduced to 0. However, I had a ticket from two years ago (2 points) which I reduced to 0. I remember that the prosector told me there was a limit to the amount of times you could reduce the points in a given time period, but I don't remember what that limit was.

Does anyone know what that limit is? Thanks!

qbrozen · June 2005

nope, its 3:
http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/cit_violations/d_vp_pntded.html

qbrozen · June 2005

If you wound up with no points, its a good deal, regardless. Even if it doesn't help you today, it may help you tomorrow. Those points follow you for 3 years as far as any insurance company is concerned, so having no points, in my opinion, is worth quite a bit of cash up front.

rangers_nut · June 2005

"Up to three points may be subtracted from your point total after

successful completion of a MVC Driver Improvement Program* (maximum of once every two years) "

means you gotta go to driving school! lol yay?

qbrozen · June 2005

that's just one option.

Also deducts 3 points for each full year of driving with no violations or suspensions.

Also deducts 2 points for completing a Defensive Driving program.

msm · June 2005

I got a ticket for crossing the red light before it turned green. This is my first ticket and i think it is 2 points. Can i pleade not guilty and reduce my points to 0. What is the procedure? I would like to clear my record. If i have to pay the fine, how much does the insurance goes up. I have heard that defensive driving helps to lower your points by 2 points. Will it then clear my record in case i pay the fine and then take the defensive driving. Any input would be helpful. Thanks

qbrozen · June 2005

as far as the procedure, go back and read. plenty of messages covering that.

insurance is up to your insurance company. I suggest you give them a call.

Just a message or 2 above yours covers the defensive driving points ... but word of warning, defensive driving will take the points off your license, but not your insurance. That ticket will still be with you for the next 3 years unless you get it changed in court. good luck.

lifebeckons · June 2005

Yesterday I was going from work to home in San Jose, Calif. I was on the I-237 onramp merging into the freeway when a really fast car started tailgating me. I was getting pissed and to get back at him, I slowed down a bit. This made him even madder and he quickly tried to change the lane and pass me. I changed the lane before him and he was back on my tail again. This went on for 30 seconds or so because he could change lanes because of other traffic around.He then started screaming and yelling, and took out a notepad and started writing down my license plate (I could see all this in my rear view). He then passed me and showed me the notepad and yelled "I'm gonna report you!!", and went his way.

My question is: Could he file a report against me for reckless driving? If so how would anything be proved if its just his word against mine?

qbrozen · June 2005

so... someone is tailgating you, making you angry .... he tried to pass and you intentionally block him so he has to continue tailgating you .....

I thought they shoot people in Cali for such actions on the road?

In any case, check your state laws. That's what makes the difference. he MAY be able to take you to court ... but I'm sure he won't want to bother.

msm · June 2005

Thanks for the message, it was very useful. I just remembered that when we lived in Maryland 2-3 yrs back, I got a fine in the mail with the picture of the car making a right turn at the red light ( I did not see the sign which said '"no turn on red"). I paid the fine by mail. Is that a 2 point offence? Does that mean that now I have 4 points in my record? Does your points carry over from state to state. I don't remember my insurance company telling us that the insurance is up due to any points when I bought it after I moved to NJ.

msm · June 2005

Thanks for the message, it was very useful. I just remembered that when we lived in Maryland 2-3 yrs back, I got a fine in the mail with the picture of the car making a right turn at the red light ( I did not see the sign which said '"no turn on red"). I paid the fine by mail. Is that a 2 point offence? Does that mean that now I have 4 points in my record? Does your points carry over from state to state. I don't remember my insurance company telling us that the insurance is up due to any points when I bought it after I moved to NJ.

lsg1 · June 2005

My daughter who is 17(has her license 10 months) was driving on the Garden State Parkway and got a speeding ticket for going 87 in a 65 zone. We still don't know how much the ticket is for.
We live in Staten Island, NY. Is it true that if it is a 4 point ticket in NJ, we will get 2 points in NY?
If I hire a lawyer, what are the odds of him getting the points down, and if they are eliminated in NJ, are they also eliminated in NY?
Thanks

newbie15 · June 2005

I used to have 0 points on my driving record. But have been on a bad luck spell these days. Need your advise on the last episode.

1. A couple of months ago, I was driving on a Sunday morning, going to work. The stretch had a 25 m/h speed limit and I am pretty sure the officer said I was at 36 m/h. I was speeding, so I simply paid my ticket. This probably means 4 points.

2. The Friday before Memorial Day, an officer stopped me saying I had passed a red light while I talking on my cell phone. When we talked he realized that he was mistaken to even where I was coming from and that indeed the light was green (not even yellow) when I passed it. (I dont even know where this officer was parked when he thought he saw me.) So, he only gave me a ticket for the cell phone  which I was using. $130

3. A couple of weeks later, I was leaving a parking lot. There was a stop sign at the exit and the road had 2 lanes in both directions. I needed to make a left turn. I stopped and noticed there were cars coming in both directions. I waited for all the cars to pass and noticed that the last car coming from my left was a huge green van with its blinking light on, making a signal that it would turn into the parking lot, right next to me.

I never trust these signals. People forget that they have them on and they never make the turn. So, I carefully waited to see if the van was going to really make the turn and not pass in front of me clearing my way to make my left turn.

Indeed the van began to slow down and make its turn. Since there were no more cars passing in both directions I decided to make my left turn.

As soon as I started, a POLICE car came out from behind the van on the left lane and went right in front of me. It was traveling on the vans shadow and I could not have seen it from my position.

We touched! I got a scratch on the left side of my front bumper. He got a marking on its right rear wheel.

The police man got out of the car, stopped the traffic, called 5 other officers and after waiting for another hour, they filed a report and gave me a ticket for careless driving.

Here is the deal. Should I plea not guilty and try to prove that I was being careful but made one mistake or should I simply pay this ticket and get the 2 points that comes with it? I believe I made a mistake, but was being careful in all the other possible ways in this situation.

One of my co-workers has a son that works for the police in that township. According to him, if I plea not guilty I will have to pay for the ticket and pay $400 of court fees. He does not guarantee they would get rid of the points. He also says that they estimate that it will cost more than $1000 to fix the damage on the police car and they are going to submit a claim to my insurance company.

I am not sure what are my chances here and what is the best choice. Would appreciate some suggestions. Thanks.

qbrozen · June 2005

Well, technically, if that other ticket was within the 3-year period, you should have 4 points on your insurance. BUT, I don't know what happens when you switch states. As far as I know, they usually refer to DMV records for points, so its possible they are not checking your previous state's records. You could always call your insurance company and ask if you have any violations showing on your record (just claim you can't remember if you got another one within the last 3 years).

qbrozen · June 2005

Well, sure, if you come away with no moving violation on the record in NJ, there is no reason for your NY license to show anything, either.

As far as what points are assessed by NY state, you need to check with NY DMV. It is true that, if you are a NJ resident, out-of-state moving violations are assessed at 2 points on your license, but the rules in NY may differ.

Insurance and NJ No-Point Ticket option

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