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If it comes factory installed, then the window sticker for the running boards is $599. However, if you walk into the dealership (Parts Dept) and have them put on the running boards, they will charge you $1200 for aftermarket boards.
I believe running boards are a great addition if someone is short and have small children.....
www.qualitycustomboards.com
BTW, we had them installed the boards for us for $125.
After dealing with both local and regional Toyota reps they have refused to do anything about this, though they did acknowledge the system does not work as advertised.
If not for this problem, we love the van. But I will not have my family driving around in an unsafe vechicle and the tires are rated ONLY up to 50 MPH and only for 150 miles on low pressure.
I would advise anyone considering this van to NOT get the AWD version with runflats. It is not a safe van due to the admitted nonfunctioning tire sensor and the first time someone gets killed due to this Toyota is going to be sued for a known defect.
I personally will never buy another Toyota again, and just cancelled a pending purchase on a 50 grand 400h lexus hybrid because if this is the best Toyota engineers can come up with, my family is driving something else. We will be trading in a few month old Limited Sienna and taking a huge hit, but safety comes first.
Good move taking your name of the 400h list, though. The non-hybrid version is a much better value.
You should file a complaint at the Office of Defects Investigation of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration at http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/
in order to get it classified as a "known problem", and increase the chances of someone being able to successfully sue Toyota if and when this problem re-occurs.
And I have had to replace normal regular tires on cars that lasted only 15k miles too (my last Saturn) because they used a soft compount. Whatever. A colleagues Honda Accord also last only a few miles with the stock tires, because they were inexpensive. Many cheaper and mid range cars/manufacturers use cheaper tires.
My advice, buy some quality tires, and unless you are going on a trip, get a can of fix it flat for around town, and not take the big loss. I don't think anyone is making really good run flat tires. Seems like a good idea, but in reality they don't seem to be working too well. I also tried to get Saturn to compensate me on my tires, but to no avail. I bought new tires for it while I had the vehicle, and they worked much better. When I got rid of the Saturn, I got a Sienna, and couldn't be happier. I do plan on a get 4 new winter tires though just to be safe.
BTW: Some people may not want these added 'safety' features, as they add to the cost of insurance. More and more vehicles are being 'totaled' by insurance companies, due to increased vehicle features and content. Some buyers may feel that only having four or six airbags is enough.
The Touring owner you saw has compromised the accuracy of his speedometer, and possibly even rendered his Tire Pressure Monitoring System inoperable.
'There ain't no free lunch....'
So what if it took Toyota two years? Now is now. And for '06, the safety items are standard throughout the Sienna line.
I'm tired of people complaining about the price of gas. Most people could mitigate the recent cost increase by brewing their own coffee at home, rather than hitting Starbucks five times a week. Or maybe make dinner at home once in a while, instead of going out for a fat-laden gut bomb at Applebee's.....
As it should be, the tires are warranted by the manufacturer, not by Toyota.
There is no real quality run flats, so given this sitation, you can either keep replacing them with the same tire every 15k, or as I suggested in my previous post, buy 4 good non run flat tires, and get a can of run flat or subscribe to AAA. Not the ideal situation, I agree. But it beats selling a new van and taking the steep depreciation hit. Unless you don't like the van all around.
I don't think Toyota will make this run flat issue right, mainly because the way tires are treated as separate entities to the vehicle. Which I don't like, but I am sure there is a good reason (for the manufacturer, not the consumer). If my JBL stereo stops working in my Sienna, I don't have to go to a JBL store and have it fixed. I take it to Toyota, and they fix it. Now if it is a part of the original contract that these tires will only last about 15k miles, and that is spelled out, then that is fair. But most people will assume that tires will last longer, unless specified otherwise. I know I was angry when my tires on my Saturn were practically bald after 17k miles, I took it to the dealer, but they were not willing to help in any way. But these were regular tires, and not expensive run flats. I agree that Toyota should do something to help compensate owners of the awd vans, maybe 50% for a set of new tires. Hisorically though, I think this is not likely. The tires come under different warranties, which usually absolves the car manufacturer.
There are many good choices with either the Odyssey or Sienna that do not require you to have problems with run flat tires.
As for the run flat discussion, why is it that they can't last longer than 15k miles or so? Is it inherent to the run flat design, or more of a case of planned obsolescence? If I had to replace them, I would not at $1k a pop, I would choose conventional tires without a spare, and take my chances, unless going on a trip. Either way, I am glad I have a fwd Sienna with a spare so I don't have to deal with this mess. Even more glad that my Sienna doesn't get 12 mpg - which would cost more over time than replacing expensive tires. To compound it all, a Touring Honda that has both bad gas mileage and expensive tires to replace. Yikes.
Odyssey: 19.8 mpg
Sienna: 19.1 mpg
And I believe the Sienna was on Premium.
http://motortrend.com/roadtests/van/112_0505_minivans/index5.html
I just find that odd that an Odyssey will get 12mpg from city driving.
That's great.
Now could they maybe make the front grille look better than a Chevy, Ford, Buick, Pontiac minivan, etc.?
With a treadwear rating of 500, they should be good for at least 50,000 miles.
Mine have more than 12,000 miles on them now and show no visible wear.
I too find it odd that Ody gets only 12mpg in city driving.I thought it's actually mpg in city would be closer to 15 or 16...instead of the 20 EPA lists.
City: Ody 12, Sienna 13
Hwy: Ody 28, Sienna 27
Overall: Ody 19, Sienna 19
So the Ody and the Sienna were actuall quite comparable in Sienna testing.
Some of the highlights...-hybrids had some of the biggest disparities between EPA and tested mpg...averaging 19mpg below city rating.....-EPA ratings are the result of 1970's era test assumptions that don't account for how people drive today....-Vehicles have changed.Since 1981 horsepower is up 89% for cars and 99% for trucks.
Automakers conduct the government fuel-economy tests on a laboratory dynamometer. They can use hand-built prototype vehicles within EPA rules, to maximise miles per gallon in simulated city and highway driving. So, to me...Honda and all the other manufacturers are partly responsible for the inflated mpg numbers. They pretty much build their vehicles to get maximum mpg on the dynamometer test...but not real life. "Hey it's EPA that set those numbers not us!"
CR city mpg figures ranged from 13% better than EPA sticker to 50% worse. They said their highway mpg more closely reflected the EPA's.
Gas just hit $2.89 today in Louisville. When will this madness end?
Some of Honda's cars (Civic, Accord) get great mileage.
City: Ody 12, Sienna 13
Hwy: Ody 28, Sienna 27
Overall: Ody 19, Sienna 19
The Sienna and Odyssey are equal (in CR testing)
But i notice other reviews, (MT, C&D) have much higher numbers in CR.
Your description of your town sounds very much like Ithaca, NY, where I lived for over six years (grad student at Cornell) until 2001. Is Ithaca your place of residence? If so, you are right about the hills and waiting for traffic at one way bridges. Strangely though, I was getting better gas mileage in my Toyota in Ithaca than I get here in Albuquerque. I don't know if it's the altitude or the fact that regular gas is 86 octane here. Anyway, we just bought our Ody two weeks ago and it only has 106 miles on it. I put gas in today for fear of short term price hikes--the wait at the station was very long. I only got 15 mpg for the first 106 miles with about 50% hwy miles. This is assuming that the tank was in fact full when I took delivery.
Also. Ody is 4500 pounds vs Sienna 4000 pounds. Why?
Thanks
Good guess! It is Ithaca, and I work at Cornell (who doesn't!). I got here in 2001, so we just missed each other. It is such a great town. You would be surprised though at the changes here just in the last 4 years. We now have: Walmart, Target, Dick's Sporting, Barnes & Noble, Borders, Bed Bath...yada yada. Some people don't like these changes, I say it just adds more. We need the tax base here anyway. I have friends paying $8k/year in taxes for nice but small little homes in Ithaca. I just saw that AARP listed the top 50 companies to work for, for people 50 and older, and Cornell was ranked #5 on that list. Pretty cool. And 300+ of my colleagues in Alumni Affairs & Development just moved into a new building in downtown Ithaca, on the Commons. Trying to build up downtown more, and make it denser. New housing is being planned, etc.
What did you study? I am a development officer in the College of Engineering. I've been thinking about putting a philanthropy class together - will probably take me a few years to get all of my materials and ideas together, if ever!
Funny that your gas mileage is better in N. Mexico that in Ithaca, but you're probably right the altitude is much different. I lived in Taos when I was younger back in the late 70s. I would love to go back there, or Santa Fe, although I don't think I could live there long term. It has been so hot and dry here in Ithaca you wouldn't believe it. Every lawn practically has turned brown. The second hottest summer in history, and the dryest ever. We got a little bit of rain yesterday from Katrina, and we needed it.
Your Odyssey should improve I would think. I got almost 25 mpg when I drove my Sienna home from a dealership in Maryland, back to Ithaca (long story). But that was 80% or more highway. I hover at almost 20 now around town, which isn't too bad I guess. I think a hybrid Minivan is in order soon. Your Odyssey has a more powerful engine, and as a result, it just uses a bit more gas. The price you pay of having the fastest minivan on the market! Gas is expensive everywhere. My mother-in-law in Atlanta said it had really spiked there yesterday, one station charging almost $6/gallon. And she used to gloat how much cheaper it was there than here. Ha.
So do you miss Ithaca at all? Or is Albuquerque home now? Two very different places. I remeber Santa Fe as a very cool city, expensive now from what I have heard. Take care.
Not so sure. I'm just trying to figure out how I can get them into my 2004 Sienna XLE LTD.
Ody is 4500 pounds vs Sienna 4000 pounds. Why?
Because 4500 for the Ody and 4000 for the Sienna are what the scale said when they weight them? Are you comparing apples to apples (similar models, for instance don't compare a CE Toyo to a Honda Touring)? Seriously though, it comes from the added weight of more bells and whistles or at least the materials they are made of. Despite the weight differential I assure you the Ody has better acceleration and feel. As discussed and disputed in this forum, the Ody is Accordlike, the Sienna is more supple, almost Lexuslike. Bottom line is the small wt gain of the Honda is not crippling compared to the 15 or so pony deficit of the Sienna. Both are fine vehicles.
there is a reason that the LX has steel rims, and manual doors. there are people out there that don't want the additional expense of replacing a bent alloy rim, or the hasstle with autosliders. they don't need a roof rack.
it's ok for a manufacturer to offer different trims levels...honda is very good about minimizing the number of combinations. and if you want to upgrade the vehicle, you can get items like the roof rack and alloys, and x-CD changers / DVD RES and the like.
I'm a newcomer, so please bear with me. I've been sucked into the vortex of deciding between Sienna and Odyssey. We live in Calgary and go to the mountains pretty regularly, either to ski or just to spend the weekend at a family place. I'm trying to come to a conclusion on whether we really need AWD. We have a couple of pre-school children, and we're safety conscious (my wife is actually safety obsessed!). Our current vehicle (Toyota Highlander) has AWD, and we put good snows on it every winter.
The Sienna, of course, offers AWD--but unlike the Highlander, has no spare. Instead, it has run-flat tires, about which I have heard very few favourable comments. I have no first-hand experience with them and know very little about them. I don't even know if there is such a thing as run-flat snow tires.
So here's my dilemma...is it better to have AWD with run-flats (snows or all-seasons) and no spare, or to have FWD with "regular" tires, in which case I know I can get a good set of snows and have a spare? Which is better/safer for snowy mountain driving in general? Which would be preferable if one were to suffer a puncture miles from nowhere in the mountains?
We have only driven AWD vehicles for the past 10 years (a Subaru Outback before the Highlander), so it's really the only kind of vehicle we know any more. We know we need a van, and it's between the Sienna and the Odyssey. The AWD/FWD question, with the run-flat and spare implications, is a big one we could use some advice about! Thanks.
Second - I've heard good things about the FWD Sienna equipped with traction control/VSC. If the snow conditions you anticipate are not so deep that clearance is an issue, a FWD setup with good snow tires all around may be a viable alternative. Remember, AWD is great for acceleration; but it doesn't help that much with turning and not a bit w/ braking. The traction control/VSC is standard on the AWD Siennas but optional (at least on the '05 models, not sure about the '06s) on the FWD Siennas.
Your best bet (at least for you peace of mind) may be to simply arange a test drive in snowy conditions. The van will be equipped with the all seasons rather than snow tires, but you might get a better feel for how well the traction control/VSC helps you to maintain control in inclement conditions.
As you know, the Ody is not available with AWD. However, all trim lines of the Ody have traction/stability control as standard. This may not be an issue in Calgary since in all likelihood the Siennas should be equipped that way as well. It definitely WAS an issue when my wife and I were shopping at the begginning of the year and found very few Siennas locally with traction/VSC.
I would not drive very far out of town without a good spare tire. For me, an AWD Sienna with no spare tire would be unacceptable. It appears that the Highlander remains the best choice for your situation or if more space is a must, get a large SUV with 4WD and a full size spare tire.
Off subject: How expensive is fuel in Calgary where the Alberta province exports large quantities of gasoline?
I'm not really that unhappy with the Bridgestone RFTs on my AWD I've gotten 23K miles out of mine with 80%+ purely urban driving, which is better than I've gotten with previous cars and "regular" tires. They''re not completely gone yet, but I probably only have 3-4K more miles left in them. I'm mostly doing it for cost (RFTs are roughly 3X as expensive) and ride reasons (the RFTs magnify some bumps). If the cost weren't so much more, I'd probably just get another set of RFTs.
Something is seriously wrong if folks are getting just 25K on a set of tires but maybe that's just how the PAX/RFT's work, self mutilation for peace of mind.
Have you also considered that RFT's may be mounted to special rims so replacing them with traditional tires could mean buying new wheels too? This may also render inoperative or create constant alarms in any Tire Pressure Monitoring System. I can't say for certain if special rims are on the Sienna but I'm absolutely sure they are on the '05 & '06 Odyssey Tourings as they use a proprietary 17.5 inch rim. Dealers apparently swap the whole thing out, rim and all, as an assembly, local dealers here have none on hand today. FYI, the Honda RFT's were standard stock on the Michelenian Falcon but that Star Wars scene wound up on the cutting room floor. In true Big Lots style we Ody owners (I will be as of next Tuesday) get the leftovers.
Consider us lucky as Honda S-2000 owners that get a front flat have to rotate the rear tire forward to use the temp spare aft (maybe it's reversed as it's late but you get the idea). I like the idea of buying at least a pair or maybe four $300 tires every 25K miles stinks.