At last I have a chance to drive a Sienna last Friday. It was an LE AWD.
Then on Saturday I sit on back seat of an Odyssey when the salesman drove. It was second time when I was in an Odyssey. This time I just wanted to check how bumpy it was (I don't feel much different when in driver position).
My opinion is subjective, because the diving conditions on the roads at the 2 dealers were different. Also, I am driving an Accord.
As a surprize, I found that the Sienna was much noisier than the Odyssey. First, it's engine noise even at small acceleration. The weather was cold, and so at the first 20 mins it was so noisy like an 10 year old car. Later when the engine warmed up, it was quieter, but still very noisy. Second, it's wind noise. I don't remember if it was very windy that day. I drove at around 40-50 mph on state highway. However, in the car I heard very clearly the low-frequency buzz. May be edmunds editors are right when in review they wrote the car noise could be improved.
The transmission was a litte sluggish, as you guys noted already. On the way back from the dealer, sitting in my Accord, I felt very happy that I have such a good car - it's quieter, smoother for both engine and transmission. It's a feeling I had when I bought it as brand new 2 years ago.
The best thing I found about Sienna is seat comfort - telescopic steering, and the lower back support. Having sit in Sienna, I also felt I have better view ahead ("higher" sitting, like in an SUV).
About riding smoothness - I found the Sienna a 'litle bit' better. It means on very bad, uneven roads they were all "bumpy". However on normal roads, in the Odyssey you can feel even the small bumps. And the vibration in Odyssey was "sharper", than in the Sienna.
I will bring my wife next time to test drive both, to have better decision. The road also was not very slippery to feel the advantage of AWD yet
One comment: I will bring my wife next time to test drive both, to have better decision. The road also was not very slippery to feel the advantage of AWD yet
Usually the wife, if primary driver of the van is the decision maker, sometimes even if she isn't the primary driver. Anwyay, I'm thinking the AWD would help you get going in slippery conditions, but once you are going, I don't think AWD is going to improve adhesion to the road surface. I think the ability to maintain tracking / directional control will be more a function of tire design (ie what has better tires for the slippery condition) than AWD/Non-AWD. I could be wrong about that though. Comments?
I live uphill in Boston. I never had problem last winters with my Accord, though about half of my neighbors drive SUV. However, one day, when it was snowing after a rain (so above the road there was a layer of water, and then a layer of snow, like sandwich), I saw that my friend Ford minivan could not go up the hill to my house. The wheels rotated but the car could not progress, just slipped back. We tried again about half an hour later, starting acceleration from far (on flat road) and pushed the gas pedal all the times. If we stopped and switched to brake, the car would slip back in middle of the slope and could cause terrible accident. We finally got over the slope, however I noted that the driver lost control of the movement path. Only the inertial momentum kept the car go straight ahead. I sit in the van and was very nervous. The visitor said his van has old tires, that's why it slips. However I could not forget that experience, and want to try an AWD.
I know when I start my Odyssey in the cold mornings it starts fine with no problems at all. I dont plug my cars in here at all andn I can still remember that one day it was -35 celcius, and both my Accord and Odyssey started up fine. I found I had to crank the Accords ignition abit longer, naturally seing how it is a 8 year old car, but they both started fine and never stalled out. I dont know about the Sienna, seing how my aunt keeps it in a garage every night, but I find in cold weather the Sienna does revv a little bit higher and louder then the Odyssey.
That is my only real complaint so far on our new Sienna. I just ordered a fairing (wind breaker) for the front rack. It should be in next week. Hopefully, it will help.
make sure if there is any side cross-section profile to the cross bars, that the front one is set up like a plane wing would be: thicker to the front of the vehicle, thinner to the back. other people with other vehicles have had resonance from bars installed incorrectly.
also try moving your front cross-bar towards the one in the back if you can make that adjustment.
Can anyone shed some light on the issue of a Sienna having a four star rating (driver side) vs a 5 star rating for the Odyssey?
Is there a source of information that gives a breakdown or discussion of what made the difference in the ratings?
My understanding is that a difference of one star means that there is twice the probability of injury or death in a crash. However, each star represents a range and a lower range 5 star might not be significantly better than a vehicle that was ranked high (safety) in the four category.
I'm about 6'3" so adequate legroom is an important issue, one problem with the sienna is that the design of the center area of the dash intrudes on my right kneecap making for a less comfortable driving experience, no such problem noted in the honda, also the legroom in the sienna's third row is noticeably less than the honda's, otherwise both are fine vans
The current Sienna came out for 2004 model year so it's likely that redesign will be for 2009? model year. There is usually 5-6 model years between designs.
I'm about 6'3" so adequate legroom is an important issue I am 6'4' tall. I have a 2006 Odyssey and find that it is as comfortable to drive as my 1995 Suburban was. I was pleasantly surprised since i was resigned to the fact that any new vehicle would have less front leg room. I also agree the The Odyssey is a real six large person vehicle which cannot be said for many vehicles.
Sienna is based on Camry Platform. New camry is coming in mid 2006. The current sienna came out in Mar 2003 as 2004 model. You can expect a redesign as early as Mid 2007 as 2008 model. Also toyota is due for major changes for most of their vehicles. They are coming with new dashboard material as in 4 Runner, Rav4, Avalon. New Tundra and Sequoia is due by the end of 2006. Highlander is also due in a year or so. Next generation toyotas will have side airbags as standard on all vehicles with VSC, TC and 4 Wheel Disc Brakes with EBD as standard also. In-glass antenna, more ergonomic interior component placement is due on toyota in many of their vehicles.
Since the new RAV4 is out with the 3.5 liter V6 engine, it seems logical that Toyota will bring that engine to Sienna as well. Even Camry I believe is moving to that new engine. If that does happen, are we then looking at a mid-cycle engine upgrade for Sienna ? Just wondering.
Unless I'm missing it, I don't see any discussion on this forum about the JD Powers quality reports on these two minivans. From what little I've read (mostly mentioned on the Sienna forum), the Oddy's scores for 2005 are notably worse than the Sienna on several categories (e.g., accessories, . Are there any experts here who would like to weigh in on their thoughts on those quality reports - should they sway me or not?
PS - I know about the Oddy's transmission issues and the Sienna's sludge issues, but I don't think that's what's driving the differentials in scores.
Consumer reports also has the Sienna as being more reliable than the Odyssey. In fact the Sienna is the only minivan that they rate as being above average - the Honda is down to average. Partly because the Sienna has been out a year longer. Nevertheless that was a factor in my purchase of the Sienna.
The difference between the 2005 Odyssey and 2005 Sienna, based on Consumer Reports numbers, amounts to about 1 more problem on the Odyssey over 5 years or 2 more problems over 8 years.
Most models are pretty reliable today. The only possible exceptions are vehicles given a "Much Worse than Average" full-black circle, which has no lower bound. Excluding those models, I wouldn't use reliability as a major criteria for determining which vehicle to buy.
It is this loyal Ody owners opinion that the JD Powers results are useless and CR isn't far behind. The reason I feel this way is somewhat of a stereotype. Except for a few outgoing people here (hansienna for one), Toyota owners seem to be more shy in reporting problems, think type-B personalities. Perhaps that since it is a Toyota meaning stellar quality, it must be my mistake and that the sludge build up is my fault for not changing the oil more frequently. The flaws (common to both) are less pronounced or not as important for Sienna owners, comprimise is part of life. Yes, I'm taking this to extremes to prove a point; Toyota owners may be too shy to admit to themselves and the world there was a problem with their golden chariot. I would feel the same way if the results were reversed. Honda owners (me included) whine and worry about every little thing and let the whole world in on it, good or bad, thnk type A.
Bottom line is both are great vehicles, the finest practical hauler out there today.
"Honda owners (me included) whine and worry about every little thing and let the whole world in on it, good or bad, thnk type A."
Your likely correct. I am definitely Type A and I like to drive energetically and the Ody is the minivan that suits my personality best. If I were different, e.g. laid back type, I believe that any other minivan like a Sienna would suit me fine.
I believe that the same may be true of most other Ody owners.
This seems like the exact argument that the Nissan and Mazda people (and the domestics) use against Honda. :confuse:
If Honda owners report more problems, then how come the Accord, Civic and CRV are at the top of the heap? :confuse:
Not trying to pick a fight as the Honda minivan has some advantages over the Sienna(better seating for one), but I don't think reliability is one of them.
You can find enough data in the April 2005 and October 2005 issues to produce these numbers based on the most recent online reliability information, which is the same as the latest preview. I posted the lenghty details elsewhere on the internet at some notable Odyssey and Sienna forums. I'd link it, but that is not allowed.
Unfortunately, CR does not qualify the type of problems other than the subsystem involved. The 2005 Odyssey scored poorly in "Body Integrity" and "Power Equipment". So, some of those problems could well be a loose piece of trim but it's impossible to say. Also consider that some of these problems will be fixed under the warranty, now 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/60 powertrain for both models.
In any case, the differences in reliability among most vehicles is far less than those colored circles would have you believe. If a couple problems over 8 years is a big difference to you, then by all means that should be a key criteria when purchasing a vehicle.
Actually the CR April 05 reliability data is not up to date - it only goes through 2004 models. The new car preview has the most recent data, and includes 2005 models. It is not at all the same data.
Thanks for putting the reliability reports in better perspective for me. A lot of people - me included - have probably never walked onto a Chrysler/Dodge lot purely based on those colored circles. Yet I have no idea empirically what a white circle means vs. a half red/half white circle.
Trying to make this simple, let's take power sliding doors for example: would you believe either Oddy or Sienna has better reliability than the other?
I note that a few of you have indicated you found more legroom in the Odyssey rather than the Sienna. I am 6' 5" and did not have enough leg room in either. I did find the legroom in the Sienna a little less cramped. I did not try the 2006 Odyssey (I did sit in a 2005) but expect it would be the same. Edmonds measures leg room in the Odyssey as 40.8 inches and the Sienna as 42.9 inches. I will try the 2006 Odyssey again if they have added more legroom but I fear that is not the case.
I drive a 2004 Acura TL which has a surprising amount of legroom.
I did not use the April and October issues for specific model data. Those issues are needed to find the absolute average reliability figures and charts needed to calculate the numbers I posted. The actual model data is from CR online, which is the most up-to-date. As I said, it has the same data as the new car preview, otherwise I would not have had results for the 2005 model year.
Isn't it sad how much digging you have to do to calculate data that isn't normalized circles or bar charts relative to some hidden average? There's a reason CR does it this way. If they said all cars were pretty much the same for reliability, they wouldn't sell as much copy.
I'm 6'4"-6'5" ish, and was able to comfortably drive an Odyssey (never been in the Sienna to be honest). Funny thing, my girlfriend's father is General Manager for Tom Williams Porsche/Audi. I had more room in a 911 than any car I've ever driven (legroom anyways). Anyone offering $90,000 for a Christmas present???
I have not been on this foum in a while. I do not know if I agree with your observations about Toyota owners. its kind of hard to quantify. But, personally I complain about my Toyotas. I have an 04 Sienna (American made and a new year mode) and the only complaint so far is the slight transmission pause at 1100 rpm. Its there and Toyota has no answers. I also have an 04' Corrola (Japanese made and an industry standard) which had some real issues specifically the sulphur stink and outrageously poor city milage. Both have been fixed, but no thanks to Toyota. I had to cruise the forums for answers and argue with A-hole dealers to get the fixes. I have no great affection for Toyota corp, but still I feel some of the nonsense I read in this forum about Sienna handling and the totally inaccurate stuck on fly paper stuff from motor trends (I know you were only quoting) makes me feel that objectivety is sadly lacking even amongst the professional reviewers. Your conclusion is about all there is to say - the Ody and Sienna are both good choices. However, I am going to reserve my judgement for ten years or at least 100,000 miles which ever comes first.
I have had a 04 Sienna Limited for 2 years and recently had an accident, likely attributed to the blind spot behind the front passenger side A-pillar. Has anyone experienced mishaps or near misses from the O5-06 Odyssey A-Pillar?
I'm in the market to replace my 1995 Odyssey. I've been very happy with the Odyssey, but I'm tempted by the Sienna's AWD option. We live in northern New England and do a lot of driving on snow/ice. I'm wondering if anyone can give me a comparison re: how the Odyssey compares to the AWD Sienna in wintry conditions.
Owner of 1996 Astro with AWD thinks it is worth every penny of additional cost to purchase, additional cost to maintain, and additional cost of extra gasoline used. Her teen-age daughter was able to just drive out of high school parking lot with no assistance while all other vehicles had to be helped by kind young men who were pushing all of the other vehicles. The Odyssey with good studded snow tires would probably be adequate for most driving situations...but AWD or 4WD is the BEST. (AWD and 4WD do NOT stop any better than plain old FWD.)
You said, "I have had a 04 Sienna Limited for 2 years and recently had an accident, likely attributed to the blind spot behind the front passenger side A-pillar. Has anyone experienced mishaps or near misses from the O5-06 Odyssey A-Pillar?"
My wife backed into A-pillar once... not the napping kind as it was made of concrete, LOL.
Just kidding, sorry to hear about your incident. Hope no one was hurt as insurance covers the rest. There is a slightly larger blind spot in our '05 Ody than our previous ride, an '03 Expie. I didn't notice it right away in the Ody and I did when test driving a Sienna. If the police report mentions the obstruction perhaps you can give the license points and fine to Toyota?
If you tune your Edmunds dials to the Volvo channel you can find that they have a lane change/blind spot proximity warning device in the works as do other luxo-manufacturers.
We are new to the Honda Odyssey Touring, but love everything about it except.... driving it in the snow. Here in Minnesota, it snows, sometimes a little, sometimes alot. The PAX tires which are fine for turning and stopping will not allow you to get going. The traction control is working really hard and the vehicle is just not getting out of its own way. Calling the Dealer, I was told that Michelin now makes PAX snow tires, but that I would have to buy the wheel/tire combination at $591 per wheel. Seems crazy to spend that much on a new car and have to have dedicated snows for that kind of money. We are not new to snow driving, and have Blizzaks on more than one car. But come on! $2400 for snow tires?
wish it was that simple, the touring model has tire pressure sensors in the PAX wheels, so you will always get a flat tire warning if you do not use the same wheels when you put on snows.
personally I would have not opted for the run flat tires, while it is a nice "comfort" knowing my wife could drive away from a bad situation with a flat tire, you could just do the same with normal tires ( even knowing it might destroy the rim and tire ) the PAX tires are quite a bit harsher riding, and seems from the discussions they don't last as long. the situation still remains, any other suggestions about the winter tire options. the dealer says no to disabling the tire safety monitor.......
Keep in mind that PAX tires have an odd circumference measurement. Standard-sized after-market rims with snow tires will affect (albeit slightly) the reading of your speedometer.
$2,400 for a set of PAX snow tires & wheels doesn't surprise me. Owners of Odyssey Touring models with PAX are a miniscule sliver of North American tire-buying customers, and those who want snow tires for their Touring are fewer still.
Shouldn't the discussion about PAX tires on the Odyssey Touring be in a different forum than Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna....unless a comparison to the Sienna Run Flats is also included?
Shouldn't the discussion about PAX tires on the Odyssey Touring be in a different forum than Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna....unless a comparison to the Sienna Run Flats is also included?
The host will move it if it goes too far. it is a worthwhile point for this board though. Does the Sienna offer a PAX system or similar? What about run-flats? Leave the nit-picking to the hosts, they do a fine job of keeping the forums clear.
I don't think we have to worry about tangent discussions in this forum as long as we maintain focus on contrasting the Ody & Sienna; I'll do both. The purpose of this forum is to help readers decide what (features/safety/brand, etc.) are best for them, it's all good!
Honda PAX is a Michelin product with a stiff inner 'Lego/Frisbee' that hugs the 17.5 inch rim. It doesn't rely on stiff sidewalls to keep the tire off the rim enabling you to safely drive up to 150 miles at up to 50 MPH. This helps keep the ride softer than the stiffer sidewall RFT's of the past (see Sienna below). Those that have had Ody PAX flats say they had no troubles and noted little change in handling, just the Tire Pressure System flagging low pressure. Honda logistics is pretty decent, you get a rim and tire together as an 'assembly' swapped out for free in the first two years if due to a flat (but not necessarily premature wear). I've heard of folks being in and out in 30 minutes if the dealer stocks the assembly, most do or can have it shipped overnight. The key is to keep an eye on pressure, rotate frequently to maximize life expectancy that will probably be shorter than traditional tires. They're about 1/3 more expensive to replace than a premium tire. Two local dealers have one 'assembly' in stock and Michelin dealers can get them as well. It takes special tools to work on these, again it is proliferating the market. Alignment issues can impact wear like any other tire but perhaps more so on this type of tire IMHO. PAX are standard on our '06 Touring Ody and so far (7K miles), no worries.
The Toyota Sienna uses a more traditional RFT approach if there is such a thing and BMW and Lexus use this tire family. According to Dunlop, the Sienna's tire maker, supportive sidewalls carry the weight of the vehicle enabling it to travel 50 miles at up to 50 MPH. I read a few sob stories about these tires and their lack of 'repair-ability' and others that said they felt like Flinstone-mobiles, feeling every roadway imperfection, probably exagerations. They're a bit cheaper than the Ody Mich ones to replace but the logistics support for them is N/A at best from what I can tell. Two local Toyo dealers said it would take them a couple of days to get a replacement. This technology may not be as quirky as team H but it doesn't appear as good (duration while flat or ride quality) either.
The Odyssey has provisions to store a peace-of-mind spare if you want to spend $400+ for one of these special 'assemblies' but you'd lose the lazy-Susan space below the second row. I can't speak for where you'd put a spare in an RFT equipped Sienna but two reviews I read said there is no place to stow it, I can't imagine that.
Regardless of your thoughts on PAX/RFT's solutions, not having to stop to change a flat on the side of a highway or in the wrong neighborhood is priceless. Note that based on fed mandates, Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems are here to stay!
"Calling the Dealer, I was told that Michelin now makes PAX snow tires, but that I would have to buy the wheel/tire combination at $591 per wheel."
The fact that Michelin now makes PAX snow tires is great. But why would you need ANOTHER set of PAX rims? Why wouldn't the PAX snow tire work on the PAX rims you've already got on your Touring model?
maybe you can't mount / dismount a tire from the rim without special equipment and training. this may be why the replacement involves rim + tire. just guessing.
Comments
Then on Saturday I sit on back seat of an Odyssey when the salesman drove. It was second time when I was in an Odyssey. This time I just wanted to check how bumpy it was (I don't feel much different when in driver position).
My opinion is subjective, because the diving conditions on the roads at the 2 dealers were different. Also, I am driving an Accord.
As a surprize, I found that the Sienna was much noisier than the Odyssey. First, it's engine noise even at small acceleration. The weather was cold, and so at the first 20 mins it was so noisy like an 10 year old car. Later when the engine warmed up, it was quieter, but still very noisy.
Second, it's wind noise. I don't remember if it was very windy that day. I drove at around 40-50 mph on state highway. However, in the car I heard very clearly the low-frequency buzz. May be edmunds editors are right when in review they wrote the car noise could be improved.
The transmission was a litte sluggish, as you guys noted already. On the way back from the dealer, sitting in my Accord, I felt very happy that I have such a good car - it's quieter, smoother for both engine and transmission. It's a feeling I had when I bought it as brand new 2 years ago.
The best thing I found about Sienna is seat comfort - telescopic steering, and the lower back support. Having sit in Sienna, I also felt I have better view ahead ("higher" sitting, like in an SUV).
About riding smoothness - I found the Sienna a 'litle bit' better. It means on very bad, uneven roads they were all "bumpy". However on normal roads, in the Odyssey you can feel even the small bumps. And the vibration in Odyssey was "sharper", than in the Sienna.
I will bring my wife next time to test drive both, to have better decision. The road also was not very slippery to feel the advantage of AWD yet
I will bring my wife next time to test drive both, to have better decision. The road also was not very slippery to feel the advantage of AWD yet
Usually the wife, if primary driver of the van is the decision maker, sometimes even if she isn't the primary driver.
However, one day, when it was snowing after a rain (so above the road there was a layer of water, and then a layer of snow, like sandwich), I saw that my friend Ford minivan could not go up the hill to my house. The wheels rotated but the car could not progress, just slipped back. We tried again about half an hour later, starting acceleration from far (on flat road) and pushed the gas pedal all the times. If we stopped and switched to brake, the car would slip back in middle of the slope and could cause terrible accident. We finally got over the slope, however I noted that the driver lost control of the movement path. Only the inertial momentum kept the car go straight ahead. I sit in the van and was very nervous.
The visitor said his van has old tires, that's why it slips. However I could not forget that experience, and want to try an AWD.
That is my only real complaint so far on our new Sienna. I just ordered a fairing (wind breaker) for the front rack. It should be in next week. Hopefully, it will help.
also try moving your front cross-bar towards the one in the back if you can make that adjustment.
Can anyone shed some light on the issue of a Sienna having a four star rating (driver side) vs a 5 star rating for the Odyssey?
Is there a source of information that gives a breakdown or discussion of what made the difference in the ratings?
My understanding is that a difference of one star means that there is twice the probability of injury or death in a crash. However, each star represents a range and a lower range 5 star might not be significantly better than a vehicle that was ranked high (safety) in the four category.
Thanks in advance for any help.
For example, the Odyssey's head injury criterion are 249 and 333 (driver/passenger) while the Sienna's are 473 and 404 (driver/pasenger).
There are a bunch of other frontal and side impact test results for these two vans there as well.
I am 6'4' tall. I have a 2006 Odyssey and find that it is as comfortable to drive as my 1995 Suburban was. I was pleasantly surprised since i was resigned to the fact that any new vehicle would have less front leg room. I also agree the The Odyssey is a real six large person vehicle which cannot be said for many vehicles.
Also toyota is due for major changes for most of their vehicles. They are coming with new dashboard material as in 4 Runner, Rav4, Avalon. New Tundra and Sequoia is due by the end of 2006. Highlander is also due in a year or so.
Next generation toyotas will have side airbags as standard on all vehicles with VSC, TC and 4 Wheel Disc Brakes with EBD as standard also. In-glass antenna, more ergonomic interior component placement is due on toyota in many of their vehicles.
Thats my 2 cents.
PS - I know about the Oddy's transmission issues and the Sienna's sludge issues, but I don't think that's what's driving the differentials in scores.
-Dudley
Most models are pretty reliable today. The only possible exceptions are vehicles given a "Much Worse than Average" full-black circle, which has no lower bound. Excluding those models, I wouldn't use reliability as a major criteria for determining which vehicle to buy.
Also - if that 1 problem is your transmission leaving you stranded then it is a major issue. If it is a loose piece of trim - no big deal.
Yes all vehicles are more reliable now - good for everybody. There are still some horrible ones though - Quest.
-Dudley
Bottom line is both are great vehicles, the finest practical hauler out there today.
Your happiness may vary, flattery not included.
Your likely correct. I am definitely Type A and I like to drive energetically and the Ody is the minivan that suits my personality best. If I were different, e.g. laid back type, I believe that any other minivan like a Sienna would suit me fine.
I believe that the same may be true of most other Ody owners.
This seems like the exact argument that the Nissan and Mazda people (and the domestics) use against Honda. :confuse:
If Honda owners report more problems, then how come the Accord, Civic and CRV are at the top of the heap? :confuse:
Not trying to pick a fight as the Honda minivan has some advantages over the Sienna(better seating for one), but I don't think reliability is one of them.
-Dudley
Unfortunately, CR does not qualify the type of problems other than the subsystem involved. The 2005 Odyssey scored poorly in "Body Integrity" and "Power Equipment". So, some of those problems could well be a loose piece of trim but it's impossible to say. Also consider that some of these problems will be fixed under the warranty, now 3/36 bumper to bumper and 5/60 powertrain for both models.
In any case, the differences in reliability among most vehicles is far less than those colored circles would have you believe. If a couple problems over 8 years is a big difference to you, then by all means that should be a key criteria when purchasing a vehicle.
-Dudley
Trying to make this simple, let's take power sliding doors for example: would you believe either Oddy or Sienna has better reliability than the other?
I drive a 2004 Acura TL which has a surprising amount of legroom.
Isn't it sad how much digging you have to do to calculate data that isn't normalized circles or bar charts relative to some hidden average? There's a reason CR does it this way. If they said all cars were pretty much the same for reliability, they wouldn't sell as much copy.
I have not been on this foum in a while. I do not know if I agree with your observations about Toyota owners. its kind of hard to quantify. But, personally I complain about my Toyotas. I have an 04 Sienna (American made and a new year mode) and the only complaint so far is the slight transmission pause at 1100 rpm. Its there and Toyota has no answers. I also have an 04' Corrola (Japanese made and an industry standard) which had some real issues specifically the sulphur stink and outrageously poor city milage. Both have been fixed, but no thanks to Toyota. I had to cruise the forums for answers and argue with A-hole dealers to get the fixes. I have no great affection for Toyota corp, but still I feel some of the nonsense I read in this forum about Sienna handling and the totally inaccurate stuck on fly paper stuff from motor trends (I know you were only quoting) makes me feel that objectivety is sadly lacking even amongst the professional reviewers. Your conclusion is about all there is to say - the Ody and Sienna are both good choices. However, I am going to reserve my judgement for ten years or at least 100,000 miles which ever comes first.
Thanks!
The Odyssey with good studded snow tires would probably be adequate for most driving situations...but AWD or 4WD is the BEST. (AWD and 4WD do NOT stop any better than plain old FWD.)
You said, "I have had a 04 Sienna Limited for 2 years and recently had an accident, likely attributed to the blind spot behind the front passenger side A-pillar. Has anyone experienced mishaps or near misses from the O5-06 Odyssey A-Pillar?"
My wife backed into A-pillar once... not the napping kind as it was made of concrete, LOL.
Just kidding, sorry to hear about your incident. Hope no one was hurt as insurance covers the rest. There is a slightly larger blind spot in our '05 Ody than our previous ride, an '03 Expie. I didn't notice it right away in the Ody and I did when test driving a Sienna. If the police report mentions the obstruction perhaps you can give the license points and fine to Toyota?
If you tune your Edmunds dials to the Volvo channel you can find that they have a lane change/blind spot proximity warning device in the works as do other luxo-manufacturers.
Happy healing New Year!
It would be a much cheaper option, probably about $591 for the set of 4.
Could you disable the tire pressure sensors for the winter season?
For me, that option would not be critical. Affordable winter tires and rims would be a much higher safety priority.
Just an idea...
OK. But I am curious whether the dealer has business in his mind to sell you a winter rim/tire run flat set at $569 X 4??
After all, the non-Touring Odys run fine and safely on regular rims/tires without the tire warning monitoring feature.
$2,400 for a set of PAX snow tires & wheels doesn't surprise me. Owners of Odyssey Touring models with PAX are a miniscule sliver of North American tire-buying customers, and those who want snow tires for their Touring are fewer still.
The host will move it if it goes too far. it is a worthwhile point for this board though. Does the Sienna offer a PAX system or similar? What about run-flats? Leave the nit-picking to the hosts, they do a fine job of keeping the forums clear.
Honda PAX is a Michelin product with a stiff inner 'Lego/Frisbee' that hugs the 17.5 inch rim. It doesn't rely on stiff sidewalls to keep the tire off the rim enabling you to safely drive up to 150 miles at up to 50 MPH. This helps keep the ride softer than the stiffer sidewall RFT's of the past (see Sienna below). Those that have had Ody PAX flats say they had no troubles and noted little change in handling, just the Tire Pressure System flagging low pressure. Honda logistics is pretty decent, you get a rim and tire together as an 'assembly' swapped out for free in the first two years if due to a flat (but not necessarily premature wear). I've heard of folks being in and out in 30 minutes if the dealer stocks the assembly, most do or can have it shipped overnight. The key is to keep an eye on pressure, rotate frequently to maximize life expectancy that will probably be shorter than traditional tires. They're about 1/3 more expensive to replace than a premium tire. Two local dealers have one 'assembly' in stock and Michelin dealers can get them as well. It takes special tools to work on these, again it is proliferating the market. Alignment issues can impact wear like any other tire but perhaps more so on this type of tire IMHO. PAX are standard on our '06 Touring Ody and so far (7K miles), no worries.
The Toyota Sienna uses a more traditional RFT approach if there is such a thing and BMW and Lexus use this tire family. According to Dunlop, the Sienna's tire maker, supportive sidewalls carry the weight of the vehicle enabling it to travel 50 miles at up to 50 MPH. I read a few sob stories about these tires and their lack of 'repair-ability' and others that said they felt like Flinstone-mobiles, feeling every roadway imperfection, probably exagerations. They're a bit cheaper than the Ody Mich ones to replace but the logistics support for them is N/A at best from what I can tell. Two local Toyo dealers said it would take them a couple of days to get a replacement. This technology may not be as quirky as team H but it doesn't appear as good (duration while flat or ride quality) either.
The Odyssey has provisions to store a peace-of-mind spare if you want to spend $400+ for one of these special 'assemblies' but you'd lose the lazy-Susan space below the second row. I can't speak for where you'd put a spare in an RFT equipped Sienna but two reviews I read said there is no place to stow it, I can't imagine that.
Regardless of your thoughts on PAX/RFT's solutions, not having to stop to change a flat on the side of a highway or in the wrong neighborhood is priceless. Note that based on fed mandates, Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems are here to stay!
The fact that Michelin now makes PAX snow tires is great. But why would you need ANOTHER set of PAX rims? Why wouldn't the PAX snow tire work on the PAX rims you've already got on your Touring model?
Something smells fishy to me.....