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On my Miata, the seat is 13" off the ground.
The Sienna is 26" off the ground! Twice as high.
After owning 1971 and 1977 VW Busses, my wife and I prefer the higher seating. Since we are not aggressive drivers, visibility and comfort are more important than sports car handling.
We also had many years driving sedans and pickups with bench seats and prefer the flatter seating surface.
As written by many others, seat comfort is a very individual preference. For me, I have not found any currently produced vehicle that has all seats as comfortable as the Odyssey. Our 2003 Chrysler PT Cruiser was 2nd best.
Actually, the voluntary recall did almost nothing to reduce transmission problems. That recall added a cooling line which is an oil tube which puts oil into the fill bolt hole on to the 2nd gear on the 5 speed 2002-2004 Odyssey, some Pilots, some Accords, some MDX's, some Acura CL's, TL's. The second gear would overheat and break and lock up the transmission if run at one speed for a long time on a freeway. Oil dripping on 2nd gear helped. This failure was rather rare. From NHTSA's site is the service bulletin about the recall.
http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Recalls/2004/V/RCRIT-04V176-2519.PDF
This did not solve the much more common problem which was clutches wearing rapidly which caused clutch dust clogging oil passages, clutch dust clogging oil screens, clutches slipping and not engaging. The oil jet did nothing to help the clutches. Usually the third gear clutch would wear out and fail first.
Too many have failed at a young age, some before the first scheduled transmission service. Many before normal trade in time. Because of the number of failures, if Honda did not pay to fix after the warranty, their reputation for quality would be gone in a flash. It already has taken a hit.
Oddly enough at the high end I was seeing better prices from Honda.
Lesson I learned: shop around, no doubt.
Even Toyota's own brochure is wrong. The brochure says my package 3 model does not have power seats, someone please tell the marketing department that it sure does! Even power lumbar! :shades:
Sounds like you want the JBL sound system.
My first response is that the base LE sound system is actually pretty good, it includes a 6CD changer plus controls on the steering wheel. It also plays MP3 and WMA files, I know because I tried. Finally, it includes an aux input on top of it all, for your iPod or MP3-capable phone.
The JBL upgraded sound system is coupled with the rear-seat DVD entertainment system. Not sure why you have to get to get the other, but that's how they package it.
The JBL does get you one bit of freedom, though - you can fit the in-dash GPS system from the Solara and it's plug-and-play. You can find the 06 Solara's GPS for about $1300 and have that installed, or get the brand new 07 model's GPS for about $1700 and the install is a cinch because the harnesses are the same.
It doesn't cost $5200 in the real world, either. The package ends up adding about $2300 to the invoice price, so that was the difference when I shopped.
So, if you're handy, you could get that JBL+DVD RES and the new Solara's GPS NAV for about $4 grand ($2300+1700).
Had I known that when I was shopping I might have upgraded to the package 5, I think it's called.
Let's see, I paid $25,247. So add the JBL and the DVD movie screen and it would have put me around $27.5k. Add the cost of the OE Toyota GPS from the Solara and it would have been $29.2k.
No power tailgate or leather at that price level, but you would have NAV and DVD under $30 grand, not bad. I probably would have ended up adding a backup cam, but we're still under $30k.
If you prefer cloth, especially, that simply opens up a lot of options for you. I don't really like leather, so I may have done that if I could do it all over again.
Ooops, I meant to say "even though it wasn't bad..."
Comfort wise I don't recall the seats being much different in the Toyota vs Honda, but we loved the Honda's seat relative to the Dodge minivans which were lousy.
Question for you Toyota buyers? What package does the stability control safety system come in? It's a very important safety feature that comes standard on all the Honda models, but I don't recall it being an option on the less expensive Toyotas?
We bought a 2007 Odyssey EX and absolutely love it. Handles like a car and zero problems.
When we were looking it seemed that price wise they were very similar particularly if you threw the stability control system into the mix.
You can't go wrong with either van in my opinion.
I thought our house was crazy with 3 kids under 4, but your's must be absolutely nuts. :sick:
And Yes - it really is lousy mileage. Can't figure out why as my brothers 2002 Ody seems to get closer to the claimed mpg. I have looked at the figures reported by other owners of '04 Ody's (truedelta.com) and they seem to agree that 17 is about what to expect for the '04. We made a 200 mile trip last month and averaged 17.2 mpg - nearly all freeway, and I was ver easy on the gas because I was trying to get the best mpg possible to convince myself I was only imagining poor fuel economy.
Not sure why yall's Odysseys are getting such pathetic mileage.
I average 20 MPG in mixed City/Highway driving; when I'm out on the freeway I can easily hit 25-26 MPG.
I drive an 02 though...
2004 240-horsepower 3.5L V6
5-spd automatic FWD flat light light 0 33 33 33 60 22.0
flat v.lt light 5 20 55 20 60 9.0
flat v.lt none 5 20 40 35 60 10.0
flat v.lt none 5 25 25 45 60 9.0
flat v.lt none 2 40 40 18 60 11.0
Averages => 0 1 2 3 28 39 30 60 12.2
I have heard about some owners of the 2005+ reporting similar results, but it definately isn't as widespread as with the '04.
Yes, they are completely different. The CE gets a single CD, very basic stereo. The LE gets a 6CD changer standard.
why do you want to seat 3 kids across in the second row?
This way if the kids bring one friend they can all sit together, and have front row seats to the full feature film, too. :shades:
Also, our nanny can sit between the kids. Some times even mom will hop back there to watch a movie with the kids, and again all 3 have front row seats to the movies.
have you ever had the timing belt checked?
I believe both 3.5l engines use timing chains, not belts.
BEWARE: The dash controls on the Sienna do NOT control the mp3 player. True, an mp3 can connect to the Sienna stereo but the Sienna system will only control volume.
I would be much happier with the single CD player with cassette player. :shades:
Oh, and it also plays WMAs, which is convenient because I had some of those, too.
Who needs an iPod? 6 blank CDs cost less than $5. An iPod costs a few hundred. You do the math.
Timing chains are indeed noisier but they are maintenance-free and will save you money in the long run.
For 2007 Toyota added extra sound deadening in the firewall and in the cowls to compensate, so it's still extremely quiet.
Here is a diagram of the new insulation layers for 2007 models, from a PDF from the Toyota media site.
With the weight on the front wheels and the multitude of stability and traction controls systems available today's FWD vehicles are loads safer then vehicles made just 10 or 15 years ago.
Several reasons:
* our other car is a Subaru, so we can take that if it's snowing
* run-flat tires are mandatory, no space for a spare
* you can't get the 8 passenger model
The 3rd item was the deal-killer, we really wanted those 3 comfortable seats in the middle row.
We'll just drive our Legacy if it's snowing.
BTW, the dealer is Crystal Mall in Green brook, NJ. My advice is STAY AWAY from them.
Check out fitzmall.com for a price reference. Loaded models are in demand but there is a $1500 rebate plus they sell *way* below retail.
Shop around. You can do several thousand better than that. $39k minus 1500 rebate, minus about 5-10% off list, and you should be closer to $34-36k street price.
i supposed i'd start by reading the material at www.carbuyingtips.com
i'd research TMV at www.edmunds.com
i'd purchase a pricing report at www.consumerreports.com
i'd even consider looking at the pricing through www.carsdirect.com
then i'd go in and tell them what i wanted and how much i wanted to pay for it, based on the knowlege i had acquired, and i'd walk if they couldn't recognize a good deal.
WHY compare the Ody 8 passenger 2nd row seat with armrests DOWN? The Sienna 8 passenger 2nd row seats have NO armrests even when 2 people are sitting in the 2nd row.
My wife likes the padded front door armrests of the Sienna with the little container inside better than the Ody front door armrests BUT I HATE the shiny circles around the gauges of my 2006 Sienna LE and also HATE the shiny surfaces on both sides of the stereo-HVAC controls. The Ody has a much nicer dash than the Sienna.
by the way, thanks for extensively posting on your decision process. I'm in a similar boat, long-time a Subaru fan but my family is growing and Subarus are not ;-) I still have a few months to decide, but the value/reliability/size equation of the Sienna just seems unbeatable, soft handling notwithstanding.
After reading Edmunds and CR, I expected it to be better than our 2002 T&C LX....but sadly, it is not. The 02 T&C was just as quiet, just as smooth riding, had a superior radio/stereo, had separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger. The 2nd row Quad seats and front passenger seat of the T&C were more comfortable than those of the Sienna.
However, the Sienna has a MUCH more comfortable driver's seat and twice the cargo area behind the 3rd row seat which is very nice when 6 of us go on long trips (680 miles one way). The 60/40 split "fold into the floor" 3rd row seat of the Sienna has been very convenient. The Toyota dealer has a VERY convenient facility for Oil and Oil Filter change. I do not dislike the Sienna sufficiently to trade it in for the low trade in value it now has and I like it better now that I have taken out the fold down tray between driver and front passenger. :shades: