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Daimler's abuse of the Dodge Charger legacy.
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Comments
loren
Ouch.....! :shades:
I think it's over priced for what it is. Might be a tough sell at those prices six months to a year from now when they're just sitting on dealer lots. PT Cruiser anyone...?
In the past I owned a 328I at around 45K . This car at around 29k is by far a better buy.Maybe the BMW handles alittle better but my charger would blow it doors off on the straights ! Seating comfort,stereo,trunk,etc.,no contest !!
Loren
I watched part of the commentary, and one thing that was cool about the movie is that most of it was shot at speed. Which means that they didn't speed up the film to make it look like the cars were going faster. In many cases they really were rolling along at 90-100 miles per hour! I don't think it's aged as well as "Smokey and the Bandit" or "Duel", as it seems like it was put together with a bit more haste, but it's still a cool little piece of 70's nostalgia.
It was also kinda cool to see some of those old Mopar police cruisers in action...I think they were '72 Polaras. Those suckers seemed like they really held the road and handled great for such a big car. In contrast, when I watch "Smokey and the Bandit", there are a few scenes where my stomach almost gets queasy watching the way those '77 LeManses bounce around!
Sorry Loren, I didn't know you had a PT Cruiser. When the PT Cruiser first came out, people were paying premium prices above MSRP to get one. Now they are sitting on dealer lots just like any other car. I think the same thing will happen with the Charger after all of the models are released and inventory is built up. I didn't mean to imply that there was anything wrong with the PT Cruiser.
I don't think we're going to see the same phenomenon with the Charger that we did with the PT Cruiser, though. For one thing, when the PT came out, there was nothing like it, and people flocked to it in droves. The Charger, however, isn't too terribly different from the 300, which I think might've taken some wind out of the Charger's sail. Now if the Charger/300 had been released at the same time, you would've seen people paying a premium for them, like back in March/April/May/early summer of '04. But I don't think it's really going to happen now.
As for those that think the PT is slow, simply drive one with a stick, and take the RPMs up while shifting. Sure, lug the engine and no car will move out quickly. The 150HP and 165# torque is more than adequate, and quit spunky with a manual tranny. With an automatic performance does drop off, but is OK for " cruising ". Gas mileage can drop off too with the auto tranny. My car is new, so I can say for certain what gas mileage will actually be say after 3,000 miles, but so far reading ranged from 20 to almost 30. This is highway, but not all freeway easy cruising. In mixed driving in town and highway, a bit below 20 to 25MPG is possible, depending on hills and how heavy the foot is. It really eats gas on hills.
Anyway -- Snoop Dog is doing ads now for DamlierChrysler. Is rap still hot on the charts? I thought it perhaps met the fate of disco in '80. Or is it here to stay? Could
be around longer than the Charger. If the Charger name stays around, the car will
greatly change, is my prediction, within three years. OK, my crystal ball is a little cloudy on that one, but I am sticking with that prediction.
Loren
Loren
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0507/27/C01-260434.htm
I mean it all started with "50 cent" now its "Ying Yang Twins." As Bob dylan said, "the times they are a changin." But thats ok.
If they are selling the beast - that's cool. Everyone can not like the same thing - what a boring world that would be. There, for awhile, it was one SUV after another. Talk about boring, most of them looked the same. At least the Charger is fresh and more exciting.
I just personally prefer the sexy '70 look to the current. That doesn't mean that the next guy or gal looking for a car does not see something compelling in the Charger and just have to buy one.
First impression on the Mustang was that it looks pretty good, had put on a little weight, and could have looked a little less retro '69. All in all, a good job. I did like the direction though taken on the '94 model year where they went back in time for styling hints, yet made a current looking car. Still think the '98 look just about nailed it on the head! As for building a better performance car, I hear the 2005 is very good. Will test drive one some day.
One thing for certain, the PT, 300, Magnum and the Charger have a unique look. They all put the NEW back in the new car terminology. While I personally, prefer the first three, the latest Charger would be much better to own than say a hundred other all too boring same ol' - same ol' looking cars.
Have yet to see the commercial with Lee and Snoop Dogg. If I had their money, I would consider a 300C, or maybe a Crossfire convertible. My PT will do for now.
Loren
Was listening to a local pop station, and it seemed like two out of five, songs were rap, so it is popular, as in pop stations. I wonder what the overall percent of sales in CDs goes to the Hip Hop / Rap market? I take it in the city there are all rap playing stations? The first time I heard Led Zeppelin music played in a Cadillac commercial, I was dazed and confused! I never took acid, so I knew it wasn't a flash back
Loren
I do not know about music sales but it would be interesting to find out.
And what minor fraction of a fraction of Charger-ness that someone started sketching in the back end (some *slight* contour outward), is overridden by the rest of the car. And the so called "abbreviated muscle-car curve" is from Mustang fastback, if anything. IMHO :sick:
That is all.
Most of what Chrysler has produced lately has been pretty fresh and exciting. The
original photos of the Charger project looked like a sporty car; one worthy of a Charger
nameplate. A charger is a two door car. Why not call the current one what it is, the 300se,
or Sports Edition. Everyone likes something different in styling, and may easily argue their point one way or another as to what makes a sexy and muscular car, but this is all to obvious that this in not a Dodge Charger. It is a modified Chrysler 300. The 2005 Mustang may have taken the retro a step too far, but at least you can say it truly is a Stang. If there was no label on the Charger, you would think it is a highly modified 300. So what will the Dodge Dart look like, and Mitsubishi Galant? Parts is parts. If ya like the Charger, and I take it there are those that really like the car, that's cool. Everyone likes something different, and thus making the world go 'round. But it ain't a Charger.
Loren
Considering the Magnum was only sold for two years (1978-79) and wasn't very popular, I doubt may purists would moan about a 4-door Magnum. After all, they're not crying about a station wagon Magnum! :P
Originally the 300 was only a 2-door car (the Letter Series were ONLY 2-door models), as was the Grand Prix, yet they're only offered as 4-doors these days. If anything, the 300M was about as UN-300 as it gets...FWD, V-6, 4-door, smallish platform, etc. But nobody complained.
I mean, sure, it's not the car the classic one was...but this isn't the late 1960s either. Gasoline is about to top 3 bucks a gallon, the automotive marketplace is ruthlessly competitive, and most people simply aren't interested in buying a take-no-prisoners muscle car. Given these constraints, the new Charger seems to me a pretty good car for the time.
I guess it's a sort of automotive absolutism...either it's at at the mythic level of the 1969 (or whichever), or don't build it. I can understand that. But as a matter of preference, I prefer my Mustangs. They may have their relative ups and downs (Mustang II... :P ), but they'll keep making them, and there'll continue to be a market for them as new generations get to experience the fun...
And I always liked the old LeMans and Malibu. My first car was a 1980 Malibu, and I've always wanted a '76-77 LeMans (finally found and bought one back in April). I was pissed when they put the LeMans nameplate on that nasty little Korean travesty, and I also think the current Malibu is underwhelming, and a bit of a slur on the name. But in the case of the Charger, it doesn't suck! Okay, so it has 4 doors. It would have to, otherwise it wouldn't make it in the marketplace. Chrysler gave up on a "true" Charger-type car way back in 1983, when they axed the Cordoba and Mirada. If the market had been there, these types of cars would have continued, but it isn't. The only car left that's even remotely in this type of category is the Monte Carlo, and that's a sad beast.
Love it or hate it, the Charger's still on my short list when it comes time for a new car. It ain't the drop-dead gorgeous beauty that the '68-70 was, but hey, I can live with it! :shades:
I mean it has the requisite power (and the SRT-8 appears poised to be the modern-day performance equivalent of the 426 Hemi-ed version of yore), it's rwd and is based on an existing sedan. It comes in different flavors, from mild to wild, as did the originals.
It seems to me then that it really is the door issue that's driving the animosity.
After all, the original AMC Rambler Rebel was apparently pretty quick for its day (1957) and was only available as a four-door hardtop. Since Chrysler bought AMC, the use of the name would have been appropriate.
I've always thought that "Fury" was a good name. Sure Plymouth is gone, but "Dodge Fury" sounds pretty cool, even more so "Gran Fury" for an uplevel model.
Now excuse me while I head over to Ford forums to advocate the return of the "Maverick" name... :surprise:
Loren
As for the pony wars II, that would be the best...throw in a new Camaro with styling cues from the '69, and that would be about the coolest autmotive thing for which I could hope...
Now Duster was a cool name, but to me, names like Duster, Valiant, Demon (good luck selling that one in the Bible belt, that's why the name was dropped in the first place!) and Dart conjure up a compact car. I think the biggest car that those names would work on would be something Neon sized, or whatever ends up being the replacement for the Stratus/Sebring. If you're going to bring back an old name for the Charger, it needs to be a mid- or full-sized name, IMO.
Given the state of things now, I can't imagine that the are not targeting some other place "on the curve" that will not result in a pure pony, Challenger inspired, Challenger.
Right now, I just don't see it happening.
Not to say that there won't be "something" with the Challenger name on it.
But another part of me thinks that GM and Chrysler must be looking at the success of the new Mustang (both in direct sales as well as for the indirect "halo" effect) and thinking they're fools to be so readily ceeding the pony car market entirely to Ford. :confuse:
It's interesting that, over the years, what had traditionally been the weakest player in the police car market was the one that would ultimately win out. Back when Chrysler had the R-body (Newport, St. Regis, Gran Fury) in 1979-81, it was no contest. And a '79 Volare copcar with the 360-4bbl would actually give the current crop of police cars a run for their money. The M-body police cars (Gran Fury, Diplomat) were good for awhile, but just became more and more outdated as the years went by. The Crown Vic and Caprice went to fuel injection, while the M-bodies stuck it out with carburetors right up through the end in 1989 (oddly, they were GM Rochester Quadrajet units from 1985 onward). Ford and Chevy went to 4-speed automatics in the early 80's (and were troubleprone, but fuel efficient) while the M-bodies stuck it out with a 3-speed Torqueflite right up through the end. As a result the things were horrible guzzlers, EPA-rated at 13/15! In contrast, I think the police Crown Vic and Caprice were rated at 19-20 on the highway.
There had been a few prototypes for a Dodge Dynasty police car, but they never came to be. It would've never been a replacement for the durable, beefy-type cars like a Gran Fury/Diplomat, Caprice, or Crown Vic, but would've fit in well with stuff like the Taurus, Lumina, and Grand Prix police cars.
Wish the inline six would return to RWD autos. This is not to say the 3.5 V6 is not a good value in the 300/Magnum/Charger line-up of cars. That is the one I'd pick. Gas is only going up!
Loren
Anyway, back to the Charger....
Saw an old Dukes of Hazard, with the real Charger, on TV yesterday. My-my, that machine was fly!
Loren
I almost forgot about that little K-car Daytona. Another grand old name run through the muck! They could be pretty quick with the turbo 4-cyl, though. I think later versions had the Mitsu 3.0 V-6 available. With all these other examples of Mopar nameplates run into the ground, the new Charger actually seems like it deserves praise!
To be perfectly honest, I always kinda liked them, and I think the final early 1990s version was a pretty good looking sport coupe (certainly better than than its replacements in the stable, the Avenger and the Stratus coupe).
I never really liked the Avenger/Sebring coupe, but I do kinda like the '01+ Stratus/Sebring coupes. They do seem kinda "grown up", though, where with the Daytona was aimed more at the Mustang/Camaro type of car.
Saw an old Dukes of Hazard, with the real Charger, on TV yesterday. My-my, that machine was fly! "
I heard the movie wasn't too fly though...;-)
I had a Charger sighting by me the other week. A Silver Charger SE. The front end of the car is really nice even though the other models have even more character. Was ncie to see one though. Anyone else catch any crazy sightings lately?
http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/dodge-charger/dodge-charger-history.shtml
Pre '68 and post '74 ummmm, not so good.
Loren
I'm waiting for the 2010 Challenger (two doors and confirmed).
Anyone know how the Charger's doing, sales-wise? I'm starting to see them on the roads more.
Though I will say that more than a year ago, I opined that the muscle-car revival was just in time for escalating gas prices. And I wasn't even thinking of the possibility of natural disaster. I wonder if the second-coming of the muscle cars is over before it even really started...
As for sales, so far this year the Charger has sold 16,912 units. However, it didn't come out until sometime in May, as I recall. For the month of August, they sold 5,222 of them. I know that does sound kind of low, but I don't think the Charger is supposed to be as much of a mass market car as the likes of the Impala, Camry, Accord, Taurus, or the Intrepid. Also, the Charger isn't offered in an ultra-cheap version with the 2.7 like the Magnum and 300 are, so that might keep sales a bit low, as they might not get dumped in rental fleets to quite the degree of the Impala and Taurus, or the way the Intrepid did.
Just for comparison, Dodge sold 4,585 Magnums in August, and 39,735 for the year. Chrysler's sold 9,934 300's in August, and 94,081 for the year.
Know what else? It will flat out smoke (on the curves or otherwise) the majority of slammed skateboard like and plasticlad tuner cars and I don't need a kidney belt to drive it. I can even hear my stereo, which is great by they way. Alpine head unit and Boston Acoustics speakers. Wow! Some tuner cars go like stink but it costs a bundle and they're barely streetable. In summary, I smile every time I get behind the wheel. I salute the folks who are interested and build the tuners but it is a hoot to see their faces when the Daytona rolls buy.
Which color did you get...screamin' yellow or go mango? :shades:
Thanks. I got GoManGo! Looks even better in real life than in pictures. I read a story that the color is actually closer to the copper color used in 1970. The name for that color was "ComeGetMe Copper!" The article said that the Dodge folks wanted to use the original name but th elegal suits were worried about it drawing too much unwanted attention and sending the wrong message. Ah..Uh huh. :P