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I agree, the omission of memory seats is nuts. It should have been on the high-end 05 Outbacks for sure and is one of my (few) disappointments with the car.
Personally, I am interested in the 5-pax Tribeca so I didn't even bother to sit in the third row -- for me, it would be a nuisance. I see the 5-pax as a slightly roomier and more stylish replacement for curent Legacy/Outback wagon owners who don't need extra seating. To me, the roomier 2nd row is the real improvement -- the 2nd rows of the Legacy, Outback, and Forester are just a bit too tight.
Craig
Well, we have seen VINs in the mid 40s, so there are at least that many!! Probably only a few are making rounds at the car shows though.
We had a gorgeous pearl-white Tribeca at Richmond.
Craig
Juice - I'm not going to respond to the knee-jerk bashing I'm getting here. But I will ask you stick with the Tribeca. If the Tribeca can stand on it's own merits, you shouldn't have to attack me for what I write about it. 'Nuff said.
Well folks, my apologies for hitting a nerve with my mini-van remark. My intent was not to suggest that the entire vehicle looks like a minivan. I do not believe that too be true. I was only talking about specific styling elements on the front end. The rest of the body takes the same long-box shape that is common to most cross-overs and SUVs. I could explain in greater detail which parts resemble a van and which parts do not, but I've got a feeling further discussion on the subject would not go well.
Hard to say. Some of those 40 vehicles may have been used as mules for assembly testing or sacrificed to the gods of crash safety.
Elliot: indeed, for your needs stick with the Pilot. Or look at the new Ody.
Freestyle is a budget alternative, sure, but I don't think it even comes close to the Tribeca's interior, and it has even less power than the H6 people here are comlpaining about.
I think people are more likely to cross-shop it with other import nameplates.
-juice
Playing Devil's Advocate - IIRC, weren't there complaints in the press about Subaru's small booth??
I'm not saying this is necessarily a negative (I happen to really like the wierd-ness of the Tribeca)...I'm merely pointing out that I, too, see quite a bit of minivan in the proportions. FWIW, I also thought the ML320 had minivan proportions when it first was released, and Mercedes had no trouble moving those off the lots.
Brian
For some reason, many people think when they hear "minivan," they're thinking "mom-mobile," and that my assigning the minivan label to it, the vehicle somehow becomes less masculine.
Bob
Freestyle is a budget alternative, sure, but I don't think it even comes close to the Tribeca's interior, and it has even less power than the H6 people here are complaining about.
I wouldn't downplay the Freestyle too much from the Tribeca. While not as gorgeous as the Tribeca's dash, the Freestyle's interior has a good, clean, refined, ergonomic look to it. The steering wheel controls are magnificent (full audio controls on one side and cruise on the other), and the sight lines and seat comfort are first-rate. It has a dual zone auto climate control and rear DVD system (smaller size though). In fact, the Freestyle is surprisingly competitive feature-for-feature to the Tribeca aside from the lack of Nav.
As far as the engine, Ford touts in all its literature that the engine is better than its numbers suggest. Indeed, thanks in part to its CVT, it touts a 0-60 time of about 8 seconds and trounces the Pacifica's 250 HP engine specs in every way.
With memory seats, the same rollover stability system from the XC90, 3 rows of adult seating, decent performance numbers, and a LOADED MSRP under $34,000, I think this car is more of a threat to the Tribeca (and Pilot and Highlander) than anybody may think. I predict it will be a runaway sleeper hit.
Elliot
P.S. Those of you that are familiar with my postings over the years know that I am NOT a troll here! I am simply a huge Subaru fan that went to the auto show with an open mind.
I believe most Odyssey owners are actually male. Don't quote me on this, but I think it's the van with the most male-biased demographic.
The Sienna's headlights are flat, though, the Subaru's are 3D, two bulges match up with the rest of the lines, so together the design looks cohesive.
The bulges also highlight the projector-beam style lights, which I like. I liked 'em on the Legacy, also.
-juice
The wife's boss has a Garmin, not sure which model, but she was turned off by the wires sticking out of it. So she wants integrated Nav.
Ford is supposed to go to a bigger V6 next year, and maybe by then they'll have Nav.
I dunno, though, I've been bitten by Ford before, and my dad's was a huge money pit. The warranty is short, no Patti to help if I have issues, and reliability will be at best average is my guess. I wouldn't be willing to take that many risks.
So I'd buy a Tribeca even if it did cost $3k more. In fact I'm not sure I'd buy a Freestyle regardless of price.
I do think the packaging is excellent, though. I compared it to the SRX and it kills the Caddy in every way for space efficiency despite being smaller outside.
OTOH the styling is dull, more large wagon than SUV, and the reviews would have me looking at something sportier - like a minivan.
-juice
-Joe
Really, I hope that the marketing geniuses at Ford that decided to name two new cars with such a similar name got fired!
I don't mean to second guess your information as I do not receive that Carsdirect.com e-mail, but I know I've read that the Freestar sales have been dismal and last night I noticed that there are no rebate incentives on the Freestyle, implying that Ford is not having a problem selling them.
Elliot
This is very true, but were those previous Fords heavily based on Volvo technology? Also, American cars have come a long way in terms of reliability (now better than the Germans), so I'd be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Nevertheless, perhaps a 3 year lease would be better if the price was right, rather than buying.
Also, I too read that the bigger engine is coming next year. Hopefully by then, there will be more reliability data on it.
See -- another parallel between the Tribeca and Freestyle: everyone is hoping for a little more power in 2007! Either way, it seems to be well worth it to wait until the second model year for each car to have the kinks worked out.
Elliot
Now to Bob's comment on the Ridgeline (post 1660).
GM thought of this design in 2001 with the Avalanche. Yes, they are truck vs. van platforms but basically the same thing. Honda's Superbowl ad claims its a 1/2 ton truck. About the only thing it has on the compition is better ride and handling while on-road. Does the Ridgeline have the pass through mid-gate? if not, scrap hauling any 8ft lumber from Home Depot.
Why did the Baja fail? Power? Size? Hauling ability?
I'm not up on all the specs on the two. But don't most people by a truck to haul, tow and do serious work (even if they just pretend too)?
I got a feeling the Pepsi ad for the super bowl with everone starting to drive Pepsi trucks, just because some hollywood actor was seen in one, is too much on the mark. I see to many guys and gails driving F-series trucks to work just because its cool.
--jay
It isn't slow at all. It is a little slow-er off the line but handles quite nicely. The CVT does what it needs to and you are cruising before you know it. Feature wise we compared to the Pilot, we chose the Freestyle for a couple of reasons and we are really enjoying the car and loving its capacity!
The Limited AWD has memory seats, heated seats, rear a/c, radio controls on steering, console in 2nd row (if wanted) and all kinds of safety features plus more - oversimplified version I know. Also, takes regular gas not premium.
Folks shopping the Freestyle are also shopping the Dodge Magnum, XC90, Pilot, Highlander, Odyssey, Sienna and a couple others. The reasons for selection are obviously different for each person but I see this as the exact same market the Tribeca will compete in....not the Acuras, Lexus, etc. They are replacing SUVs, Passat wagons, Mazda MPV, Land Rovers, etc.
Granted reliability etc. in not a known since it is a new model but from a value perspective it good be exactly what a lot of people are looking for.
Like I said, I am still reading here because we may be in the market in the summer but wanted to include my .02 worth!
seeing more and more on the streets.
I think you need to see the Ridgeline in person. I've seen it twice, and I stand by my statement.
As to hauling 4x8 plywood, it's the only midsize pickup that can 4x8s flat on the floor, as there is 49.5" between the wheelhouses. The bed is 5' long, and with the tailgate down, a bit over 6.5'. So the plywood sticks out 1.5' over the end of the tailgate, it's no big deal if you lash it down properly. The Ridgeline has it over the Baja in just about every conceivable way you can imagine.
Bob
~alpha
I want a Ridgeline due to its unique engineering and features, offered at a reasonable price. Do I think it is pretty? No, but it has an honest functionality to it, and I can accept that. I did not like the Elements at first also, but have grown to like them, so maybe the Ridgeline will grow on me.
Tribeca? I like the interior, and it seems like it will drive and handle well for a 7 passenger SUV. But I still have not warmed up to the front, and the styling of the rounded rear with the reduced cargo capacity and visibility associated with such styling bothers me. As a current Subaru owner and someone who has never owned a Honda, if I was looking for a 3 row SUV, I would get a Pilot. I think it is more functional and better priced. I'm not crazy about its styling, but it is what it is.
Regarding the M-class comparisons, I originally mentioned that only as a point regarding how an SUV might resemble a minivan from certain angles. I wasn’t making predictions about sales.
But since you’re the second person to bring it up, I think the ML320 had several advantages, which the Tribeca does not. First, it’s a Mercedes Benz. Second, it was one of the first crossovers (when the idea was still new and relatively fresh), not the last to join the party. And, third, it brought with it some new and effective technologies. As good as it may be the Tribeca doesn’t have that strong a launch.
More to the point, as soon as another crossover hit the scene with similar attributes (but not the minivanish shape), sales of the ML fell hard. So, I expect the Tribeca will do well for Subaru. It just won’t be a success on the scale of the ML in its first years.
I thought the Avalanche was based on the Suburban, not a van?
Honda claims that the Ridgeline is a 1/2-ton pick-up because it can haul 1,100 lbs in the bed. It has a max payload of 1,549 lbs. Several of the older trucks in the "1/2-ton class" had max payloads of more than 1,000 lbs, but the bed alone was not up to the task. The Ridgeline is short on style, bed configurations, and I happen to think it could use a lower-priced, stripper model, but it’s on par with or exceeds even the newest competitors when it comes to utility.
BTW, this discussion belongs in another thread. I’d recommend you start reading somewhere around here.
robertsmx, "Honda Ridgeline SUT - 2006" #195, 10 Jan 2005 12:39 pm
Yes, the Suburban 1500 and 2500.
Bob
* = http://www.hotrodworks.net/benchracingindex.html
Bob
Craig
Craig
Bob
Back to the Tribeca. I think Subaru's change to premium has left many high and dry. Those being the ones that loved the base models. Take the base OB Wagon, $23k or there abouts. Has all the basic options needed and priced competitively and reasonable. The Tribeca might be priced competivly but not reasonable (at least for me).
A $20k suv and $35K suv are both worth about $3k in 10 years and 200k miles. Where's the better deal?
Not true. Yes, the Ridgeline has a unitized body—but it also has a full box frame. The Pilot and Odyssey have only a unitized body.
Honda claims the Ridgeline to be a midsize truck, not a fullsize 1/2-ton. However, because the Ridgeline is so wide, some (not all) comparisons with full-size 1/2-ton pickups can certainly be made.
Bob
Low budget XC90, if you will. With a parts-bin Duratec engine.
But the Tribeca is a match for the real XC90, IMO, especially the interior.
The new ML is going unibody, and it arrives on the market about the same time as the Tribeca. They dropped the standard low-range tranny, so in fact they'll end up being quite similar.
I thought about this last night - why is the BMW X3 selling well while the Land Rover Freelander barely makes a blip on the charts?
The drive, is why. Similar size, I think the LR is cheaper, but the BMW drives much better.
My hope is it's the same with the Tribeca. It's supposed to take a sportier bent on the segment, out-handle competitors like the Highlander and Freestyle and Pilot.
It won't win on size, it won't win on price. So it has to perform. Period.
Do we all agree on that? If so, reserve the verdict until after a test drive.
-juice
And I hope the trany holds up.
As for the Tribeca I just can't justify all the extra $$ for premium and performance. Maybe if I was single. I need a family(with toys) mover. Tribeca just doesn't have enough utility.
--jay
I agree with you. While the interior is top notch, I don't want to pay extra for it. Lesser materials, manual AC, 16" or 17" wheels, etc. works for me. The problem is not enough buyers agree with us; they want ALL the bells and whistles.
DaveM
i never bought a car with these just a horn
Bob - Actually, the Pilot and MDX also use a set of rails incorporated into the unibody structure. It is very different (90%) than the one used by the Ridgeline, but it's still there. The Ody has no such structure. That vehicle is a unibody in the common sense of the term.
Folks, the word "platform" just means vehicles can be built using similar robots, jigs, a similar number of stops on the assembly line, and with those stops in the same order. It has almost nothing to do with shared parts or even designs.
Sorry for the OT rant. :-)
I spend most of my time reading and learning and post once in a while so I can learn more...
-jay
-Brian
With my 2 kids, the ride is so tight, we could count the bumps on the road. Any suggestion you may have to solve this ?
someone told me to change the tires.
-Brian
Not only do I like the engine and 5 speed tranny system, the handle is awesome for what it is.
BTW, the ES has the 17" tires, mine has the 16". If you dislike the roughness, you might look at picking up the 16" rims with the Dunlop AS 4000 tires.
John
Changing the tires is good advice. I think 2002 was the year the ES came with 17" wheels. Dropping to 16" or even 15" wheels with more comfortable (softer sidewall) tires would help considerably.
Good luck. I'm not so sure you are going to be happy with the ride of the Tribeca if you don't like your MPV.
tom
The reason I ask is because the rear bumper does not extend very far away from the rest of the vehicle, as do the rear bumpers on other Subarus.
Also, will there be a rear bumper step pad offered as an option?
Bob
-juice