Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

boomchek · September 2008

The Eagle brand was paired up with Jeep, as I remeber back then some of their brochures were combined too, and I can recall the commercials screaming "see your Jeep/Eagle dealer today!"

We had the Pontiac Lemans too which was basically an 80s Opell Kadett, except this one was made in Korea under GM's Daewoo nameplate. I recall though before it became th Pontiac Lemans it was a Passport Optima. I ahve their brochures too somewhere.

fintail · September 2008

That car is burdened with the same curse as W211 E55s now - a discontinued engine and a platform set for a facelift (or replacement, for the E55). It kills MB resale when the model is about to be replaced. I suspect a lot of these cars sell for less than published wholesale values. And wait another year and it will be 10K lower again.

qbrozen · September 2008

And we're off!

boomchek · September 2008

Good luck! If anything at least you can judge what kind of repsonse your car brings, and price it accordingly if you have to.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

Well not really because he set a high opening bid. If I may respectfully suggest-- the best way is to put a secret reserve on the car (essentially what's you take for it), and start the bidding very low, like $1,500.

If no one coughs up the opening bid, he won't have tested the market so to speak because people might not put their toes in the water at all.

On the other hand, all he needs is one bid to win (hoping, as one must, that the bidder is for real on eBay).

My strategy would be to put a high reserve, let the auction "fail" with lower bids, then contact the highest failed bidder and make a deal off line. That way, by starting with a low opening bid of $1,500, you might attract 15-20 bidders from around the world, and truly "test the market", even if you don't immediately sell the car.

At least you know what ten days worth of bidding says about your car's value.

bumpy · September 2008

Eagle was the name for the sales channel Chrysler inherited when they bought AMC. "Passport" sounds like it was basically Canada's version of Geo (the place where GM dumped their Japanese not-quite-captive imports in the late '80s and a good chunk of the '90s, though I would imagine y'all didn't get rebadged Toyotas from NUMMI).

hpmctorque · September 2008

"...If I am correct, Eagle was an offshoot line with same idea as a Geo, to offer Japanese competing vehicles from a domestic company for people turned off by domestic cars hence the name change.

Did the "Passport" brand exist in the US as well or was it only a Canadian thing?"

You are indeed correct with regard to the Monaco, boomchek. Also, andre's comments following your message, the first paragraph of your message #15311, and the first sentence in bumpy's message provide additional explanations regarding Chrysler Corp.'s objective, strategy and tactics regarding the Eagle brand. This all occurred before the notion of badge engineering was discredited.

Badge engineering was one of those ideas that seems logical, but where the reality frequently falls short of the promise. We've learned that in the current global environment, badge engineering can work in certain applications, for a limited period, but it can't support a brand. The days when the entire Mercury brand was essentially rebadged Fords, and Desoto's were rebadged Dodges and Chryslers, for example, is over. The days when Mercury largely supported the Lincoln dealer network succeeded when there were fewer brands on the market, and the supply-demand equation was more favorable to the auto manufacturers, but it struggles in the internet age, when consumers are much more knowledgeable.

Regarding "Passport", I'm not aware of a brand by that name, but Honda had a Passport model from ~1994-2002, as you may recall. It was Honda's first SUV The Honda Passport was a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo, built by Isuzu.

jlflemmons · September 2008

The only thing I remember about these is renting one in Oregon during the winter. Little beast wouldn't heat up enough for the heater to work. That, and with an automatic, accelerated in class with a Yugo. With a dead cylinder. And a flat tire ... :P

qbrozen · September 2008

While I agree, Shifty, and it was what I planned, Feebay has made quite a few changes since I last listed a car. If I put a reserve on it, it would cost me an additional $7! OK. Its $7. Not the end of the world. But it annoys me just the same since it is free to put a high opening bid.

Plus, I'm not a big fan of "hidden" reserves. While I do like that fact that more people may click on the ad by seeing a low current bid, as a seller, I don't like the whole sealed envelope mystery, as a buyer. Personally, I almost never bid on items that have a hidden reserve. On one hand, yes, I put in the max I'm wiling to pay and that should be that, but on the other hand, I want other bidders to push me to my max, not a hidden price set by the seller.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

yes it is all a game isn't it? Well the ad looks great and reads great so there's an excellent chance of success. A potential buyer can always e-mail you if they want to cut a deal close to opening bid or you might catch the eye of an overseas bidder, one never knows.

Had you considered advertising here: http://www.autotraderclassics.com/

I think it's really the best bang for the buck in terms of "buyer per dollar" that you reach.

They have an "advertise 'til you sell " rate that's pretty good, so you could keep the car running indefinitely on the Internet. I sold two cars through this site for friends, in the last 4 months, and they weren't easy cars to sell either--- a '98 MB 500SL and an older 7 series BMW. Those are tough cars to unload. Got decent prices, too. Alas, that was before Wall St. starting to eat its young, but, nonetheless.....they were, however, nice cars.

qbrozen · September 2008

Thanks for the tip.
Good to hear success stories before paying the money for an ad.
I'll try it if the ebay thing doesn't work out.
It is probably a real bad time (economy-wise) to be selling toys like this, I would think.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

Not if the toy is a quality piece. It's a REAL bad time to be selling junk, projects, old uninteresting iron, badly done conversions, loony customs, etc.

qbrozen · September 2008

Just got back from the DMV. I apparently forgot to renew my registration on the pickup truck last year, so I had to pay for the year I missed and the coming year. $150.

Speaking of this, it reminds me how frustrating NJ MVC is. Why in the world do they give out 2-year inspections and only 1-year registrations? And why must they send out registration renewals a good 4 months before they are actually due? I set the damned thing aside because I have so much time before needing worry about it and of course I forget about it.

Well, now to see if the truck will pass inspection again. Have to try that next week.

fintail · September 2008

I wish there were more pics of this, it's even less common than a Hanomag motorhome...the strange taillights taunt...

This is an oddity

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

You wouldn't believe how cheesy those early Rambler Americans were. Decals for the instrument labels, flathead engine, rubber mats. Price is delusional.

Here's another real oddity. Probably the only one alive in the USA. Price is about 3X current value here in the states. A cherry one in UK might bring $25,000, so deduct for bodywork, paint, interior, tires, etc. and what have you got?

Arcane Woody

jlflemmons · September 2008

Those old Nash Ramblers were the Ford tractor of the era. Now, a good condition '66-69 American was actually a decent little (okay, not so little by today's standards) car with the 232 straight six, ran quite well with the small v8, and was downright scary with the 390V8!

ScRambler

oregonboy · September 2008

Here's one for fintail from my neighborhood:
Nearly 50 for $5k

qbrozen · September 2008

Well, only 18 hours in and I've got 8 watchers. I hope that's a good sign.

Oh... wait ... are any of you guys watching it?

fintail · September 2008

I'd think some Brit would ship it back home - the greenback is still pretty weak, and this bailout isn't going to help it.

That cute red ponton looks like a decent car, if it isn't rusty. Lower line ones like that are slow and not exciting, but have their own charm, are very well made, and there are enough devotees to them to keep them going. If I was to get a ponton sedan, I'd like a two-tone 220SE model with a full length sunroof.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

The Ponton is cute. I like 'em except for the 4-speed column shifter.

Price is fair enough if the car is solid, rust-free and reasonably attractive inside and out.

woodyww · September 2008

You should have experienced going to some of the Massachusetts Registry offices in the '70's. It was Kafka-esque, or like trying to deal with some Soviet bureaucracy in the 1930's.

I like your Fee-bay ad. I might have started it at $3995 say, & the BIN closer to the $4500 (It's not my car tho!). But I find a lot of times, it's better to start high-ish; if it doesn't sell, you get the free-relist, (if it sells the 2nd time, right?), & you don't worry that you "sold it too cheap". And personally, I've never used a reserve; it always seems that sellers who use it want some crazy price........

steven922 · September 2008

1967

1969

fintail · September 2008

Parts cars or labors of love...or good projects if you want to spend $25K and have a $6K car when you are done.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

Yep parts cars hopefully.

lemmer · September 2008

I am driving my '86 Carerra today. I picked it up Friday. It is pretty much as described. Mechanically it is really good. It has a couple little oil drips when you park it hot, but they are less than described to me. Cosmetically, it is a great 10 footer with several little scratches and small water spots on it. The interior has no rips or tears. I'll just clean it up and put in some new floor mats. A couple of little things don't work such as the headlight squirters, but the important stuff like the AC and sunroof work fine.

Now for the big thing my father in law failed to mention. He told me the car had somewhere in the mid 100K range on it, but he wasn't sure of the exact number. Reason why - It had the speedometer replaced a few years ago. Not only was the speedometer replaced, but at some point the new odometer stopped working. In the meantime, the car has been driven very little as the owner has several cars. So, I trust the history in the car but I when I try to sell it, people will probably assume the worst.

Problem B - it tried to leave me in out in the middle of nowhere, Alabama when I stopped for lunch. It wouldn't turn over at all. I fiddled with the battery connections and it started. The battery is new, no corrosion anywhere, connections look great, so I don't know what to think.

The failure to start got really got my wife irritated, really irritated in fact. The seller has told us repeatedly to drive it for a couple of days and bring it back if we aren't 100% satisfied. My wife says it is unpredictable piece of junk. I love the car. The price is $12,500.

andre1969 · September 2008

This is a stab in the the dark, but could it just be a "hot spot" on the starter? My '67 Catalina will behave similarly sometimes. It usually starts fine when its cold, as long as the battery is strong. But sometimes a hot start, such as after filling up at the gas station, stopping for lunch, running errands, etc, it'll get fidgety. I'll turn the key and get one quick grumble, then nothing. But then I'll wait a few seconds, try again, and it'll usually start up.

And maybe it's just coincidental, but if it refuses to start on the 2nd or 3rd try, sometimes disconnecting one of the battery cables, and then putting it back on, will make it fire up. Almost as if it's resetting something. Although I doubt if there's anything sophisticated enough in a 1967 Pontiac to need resetting!

lemmer · September 2008

I had the radio on and the AC going at full speed. I thought maybe the alternator just had trouble keeping up. Is that possible?

I almost forgot. The car came with an extra deck lid with a whale tail. It is actually what came on the car, but the previous owner didn't like it. How much are those things worth?

qbrozen · September 2008

$12,500 for an '86 with TMU, but somewhere north of 100k?
Hmmm... well, I'll let shifty price this one because I'm so clueless on the porsches, but I know it wouldn't get my money. And that's not to say I don't think its worth that much. It could be. But I wouldn't gamble with that much, that's all.

lemmer · September 2008

Well, the owner is a very good friend of my father in law, and the car has been serviced at the Porsche shop that my FIL sort of works at part time. The engine and transmission have both been gone through pretty thoroughly in the last 10K miles or so. They looked it over again this past week and gave it a clean bill of health. So, I am not concerned as much with the quality of the car as with its resale value in a year or two.

qbrozen · September 2008

Exactly.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

The price is somewhat irrelevant in an old Porsche because what counts is what happens in the next few months. You could buy one cheaper and dump more $$$ into it, or buy it for a bit more and dump in less---the result? Same price in 6 months. You see my point?

As for the mysterious no start, I'm thinking starter solenoid. It is back there in the "hot zone" so it could fail. A good whack with a stick wouldn't hurt.

Yeah you can sell the silly whale tail, or better yet, hold onto it for the next owner. Some people really like those things. Converting from whale tale to modest butt wasn't all that cheap. You need the used lid, a repaint to match, etc.

Personally I think 100K is nothing on a Porsche engine in good shape. I have seen 300K *verified* miles on these engines. They are as tough as any engine you'll find in any car on the road, including F350 pickup trucks.

As for the speedo issue, I'd take a photo of the old speedo, replace it with a rebuilt one, and then just show the new buyer the old photo and/or current service repair order with miles recorded.

Just tell wifey that this car is in lieu of gambling, mistresses, etc. :P

qbrozen · September 2008

The price is somewhat irrelevant in an old Porsche because what counts is what happens in the next few months. You could buy one cheaper and dump more $$$ into it, or buy it for a bit more and dump in less---the result? Same price in 6 months. You see my point?

Well, yes, of course. But doesn't the mystery miles issue make it worth less to begin with? It does for every other car, as far as I'm aware. Unless this becomes irrelevant once you cross a certain age (of the car, not the buyer)?

I've just gotten accustomed to passing on anything TMU or salvage. Only way I'd consider TMU is if it was a beater I was planning on running into the ground (or converting to a track car or retro rod or some other such thing).

lemmer · September 2008

It depends on the car and its age for me. Would you care about TMU on a '76 911? I probably wouldn't. Alternatively, on a '96, definitely I would care. On an '86 I care a little bit but only for resale reasons.

A friend recently sold '77 911S with 285K. The buyer didn't seem to care, as the engine and transmission were relatively fresh. I'd almost rather the car be TMU at that point.

I agree completely on salvage.

woodyww · September 2008

failure to start got really got my wife irritated, really irritated in fact. The seller has told us repeatedly to drive it for a couple of days and bring it back if we aren't 100% satisfied. My wife says it is unpredictable piece of junk. I love the car. The price is $12,500.

Is your 2 day return period up yet? Have you been able to have your local Porsche mechanic check it out? (They will love you if you keep it). I don't mean to sound negative, but what'll it be worth when it's at 200K miles, or it actually could be already, possibly? With a TMU title......

This may sound bizarre, but there are actually times to listen to the wife, even in old-car purchases......

lemmer · September 2008

I have until Wednesday, but I am almost certainly going to keep the car. It has already been thoroughly checked out by a Porsche mechanic and has no issues of which to speak.

I am not sure it would be worth much less if it already had 200K on it. I had a friend who just sold his '77 911S with 285K on it. Since the engine and transmission have been rebuilt within the last couple of years, he pretty much got the same thing for it as he would have if it had 150K on the clock. That is one anecdotal data point anyway...

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

Porsche buyers are not sensitive to mileage generally speaking as long as there are good service records and as long as the car checks out. I think once you break the 200K mark there is certainly a price deflation but it's not severe. Nothing like if it were a Corvette or Ferrari of Viper or some such, where mileage really matters.

Porsche motors are basically bullet-proof if you take care of them. They simply do not blow up. At worst, they leak or if severely overheated the heads will loosen up. I don't think I've seen a bad Porsche crankshaft in...I just don't remember. You'd have to drain the oil out and floor it for 10 miles.

qbrozen · September 2008

I might have started it at $3995 say, & the BIN closer to the $4500 (It's not my car tho!).

Thing is, I dunno if I'd let it go at $3995. And $4500 is definitely low for a BIN, IMHO. I mean, I think of BIN as for those who don't want bidding competition and want it RIGHT NOW. So they should pay more.

But, if I do list it again, I probably wouldn't even change the numbers all that much. Problem is the fees. If it sells through Ebay, I pay then another $125. PLUS, I gotta pay whatever paypal fees are involved if the buyer uses it. So I'm probably out a couple hundred bucks before I even get started. So even a $4250 starting bid puts barely $4k in my pocket.

Maybe ... maybe I'll lower the numbers come Friday morning if I don't have any test drives lined up by then. Maybe like $4295 bid/$4995 BIN. (?)

lemmer · September 2008

You might be better off waiting until Spring. I personally think that this is a great time to buy a convertible, but I am not sure the market agrees.

If your car was the down the street from me, I would definitely be interested.

andre1969 · September 2008

and took my '67 Catalina to the mechanic. I'd been sort of limping this thing along for years now, not really trusting it to go too far from home. Well I figure it's finally time to start getting it to the point that I can ENJOY the thing again. My goal is to get it roadworthy enough to take to the GM show in Carlisle next year.

Anyway, here's a rundown on the stuff I'm getting done...

-New top, plus getting the lift mechanism working again (putting it up and down manually gets old after awhile, especially when you get tendonitis in your shoulder!)
-New belts/hoses/coolant
-Fix parking brake
-Fix leak in transmission (this is gonna be fun, from my description the mechanic said it might be the rear main seal :sick: )
-New tires mounted on some 15x7 Rally 2 wheels I bought last fall (I'm getting tired of chasing after hubcaps, and this car loves to toss them)
-tuneup, fix choke, lube chassis, grease bearings.

He also wants to check my oil pressure, because of something I told him. The oil pressure light would usually come on at idle when fully warmed up, in situations like sitting at a traffic light. Putting it in neutral would usually make it go away. I tried bumping up the idle, which helped a bit. It used to idle so slowly it's a miracle it didn't stall. Well, my previous mechanic "fixed" the problem by switching the oil to 20W-50. This mechanic wants to actually check it though, to make sure it's not a failing pump or something, because a mutual friend of ours toasted the engine in his Galaxie 7-Litre, and he said the symptoms were similar.

Once it's all said and done, I'm sure it won't be cheap. But at least I'll be able to enjoy the car more. Well, once spring comes, at least! It was kinda cool, too, watching one of the mechanics hop behind the wheel and drive my car from the parking lot inside the building. I've had that car almost 14 years now, but have never seen it move, unless I was inside it. Kinda cool, actually seeing it in motion like that.

fintail · September 2008

Wow, that's a lot of work. When that's all done, the car will deserve a good detail and polish to look as good as she runs...so your work won't be finished yet :P

Now and then I think about giving the fintail what it needs to be completely perfect mechanically - it also has an odd very small oil leak, it could probably stand for a few suspension bits to be replaced, the brakes and tires are heading for 10 years old now. But, I am just too cheap. It runs and drives fine as-is.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

see next message

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

rear main seal in transmission is easy. Pull out drive shaft, hook out seal, pop in new seal, re-install drive shaft. 1 hour job at most.

andre1969 · September 2008

I might have described it wrong. Several years ago, I had that convertible in at another shop, to look at the leak, and they said it was something called a "rope seal" or something like that? I have a feeling that it's going to actually involve pulling the tranny lose from the engine.

toomanyfumes · September 2008

Is it leaking engine oil? I think the rope seal is the rear main seal of the engine. You would have to remove the tranny to do that.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2008

Oh that's a rear main ENGINE seal, not a transmission seal. Unless the leak is really bad, I wouldn't touch it. You might test to see how much crankshaft end play there is before you attempt a re-seal. If there's too much crankshaft end play, the seal won't hold for very long.

jlflemmons · September 2008

Don't overlook the simple. It may just be a bad sending unit on the oil pressure. The only way to know for sure is to use a guage on the engine and see what the idle pressure is.

andre1969 · September 2008

Oh that's a rear main ENGINE seal, not a transmission seal. Unless the leak is really bad, I wouldn't touch it. You might test to see how much crankshaft end play there is before you attempt a re-seal. If there's too much crankshaft end play, the seal won't hold for very long.

Y'know what? I think I'm starting to get my stats mixed up. I've had that car for 14.5 years now, and put off some repairs for so long, I guess I'm remembering things wrong. It does have a very slight oil leak, but the mechanic said it wasn't worth delving into. I think that was the "rope seal" thing.

Now that I think about it, I want to say that the transmission leak was around something called a "throttle shaft tube" or something like that? Does that sound right? When the car sits around too long, it seems to leak transmission fluid more, but when I drive it more often, it seems like the leak goes away. Almost as if a gasket or seal somewhere dries out and/or shrinks up with lack of use.

Oh, and as for the oil pressure light, there's also an aftermarket gauge hooked up. The oil pressure light comes on and flickers when the gauge gets down to about 15-16 psi. Yesterday, the mechanic said that the light shouldn't come on until it gets below 10 PSI. So I guess either the gauge or the idiot light is lying to me!

lemmer · September 2008

Did they give you an estimate on all this yet? It sounds like you just spent your Christmas bonus and it isn't even Halloween yet.

lemko · September 2008

Can't wait to see that Catalina in person someday! I saw a movie last night and there was a rare 1967 Pontiac Ambulance parked outside a hospital.

tjc78 · September 2008

The oil pressure light would usually come on at idle when fully warmed up, in situations like sitting at a traffic light.

Well, my previous mechanic "fixed" the problem by switching the oil to 20W-50

That is too similar to the situation I had with my '79 Continental 6.6. No oil pressure at idle even with a new pump. Progressively got worse drove 30K+ miles like that and although it didn't sound pretty the engine never failed. Ran 20/50 or even straight 50 in the summer. From what I was told I wasn't alone with that problem with Ford engines.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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