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Comments
On the BMW dealer's website, they claim, "we've never seen such a nice well-kept older BMW." I wouldn't think a bimmer dealer would sell a trashed POS of their own brand. Even having such a thing on the lot would not reflect well on the brand. So I'm inclined to think it really is nice. (yes, I could be fooling myself)
Here is my take so far:
#1. Makes good sense. Reliable, somewhat practical, RWD, high hp in this grouping. BUT, is it too heavy? 3k lbs is alot. Does the hp and RWD make up for the weight penalty? Also, I'm getting confused by some things I'm reading. There was a thread on the SCCA forums where some were saying the "is" doesn't fit ST because of its LSD. For one thing, I'm not sure this has an LSD. According to MSNautos.com, it does not. Second, even if it did, why does that exclude it? The rules state, "No limited slip differentials are permitted except for factory standard viscous coupler type units." Maybe it is not viscous? I would find that odd.
#2. STS candidate. mid-engine fun, very light. Strikes me as the best autocross car of the bunch, but the worst to live with when not dodging cones. I most likely would not even fit, so maybe not even a consideration, but if I did fit, it would probably still be horribly uncomfortable even driving to and from the lot, let alone weekend fun in the off season.
#3. Light, reliable, practical, simple. But does it make sense on track? Is this just asking to be spanked by Si Civics? Maybe this is strictly an HS car? One that has no entertainment value off the cone course?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Ok, so what do you think of the other 2, shifty?
The MR2 is so tempting.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I've found I can fit into whatever car I want to fit in. I am not going to drive a Miata or some such cross country, but it fits me well enough for a spirited drive on a country road.
On a similar note, I've fantasized about doing a similar swap with one of my '79 New Yorkers. While Lemko would love to see me stuff a Hemi under the hood, I though about how one of those things would perform with just the 3.5 V-6/4-speed automatic out of a current Charger/300? Even though my '79 is a lot bigger, weight isn't that much different. And in replacing a 360 with a V-6, I'm sure weight would go down.
One of those 3.5's puts out 250 hp, compared to the 150 that the 1979 360-2bbl puts out. However, the 360 still has more torque, something like 280 ft-lb compared to around 250 for the 3.5. I'm sure that's still plenty though. The 3.5 was also rated around 19/27 before the EPA started revising their numbers.
From a financial standpoint it would never make sense, but I do like the idea of a big, beefy late 70's car that could make it from 0-60 in under 10 seconds (and by 1979, not too many of them could!), and still return good fuel economy. If I had unlimited funds, I'd be tempted to try something like this, just to see what the end result would be.
The only real loss I can think of, is that there's no substitute for the sound of a V-8. And I could see the Camaro example sounding like a late 80's Cavalier Z24!
Mid-engine cars can be tricky to drive----very easy to spin.
I bet it wouldn't be bad at all. It would be quicker, better on gas, and probably more reliable. I do believe it would be a nightmare getting the wiring right. It would be cool though.
While Lemko would love to see me stuff a Hemi under the hood,
That would be cool too, however, you have the problem of handling and stopping the thing. I remember my 79 Continental with all the smog equipment removed was just fast enough to be scary with the lack of handling and braking. I could only imagine what that thing would have been like with a worked 460 under the hood.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Haha... Well, an '85 MR2 should be right at home next to my '85 Z.
Thing is... I can't see having both. Although I would be "that guy who has 2 '85 japanese sportscars," which could be fun, it would be so impractical.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Realized the Toy is in the town my dad works in. He is going to try to swing by tonight and at least give it a preliminary surface inspection and tell me if its worth pursuing.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Base Impreza wagon.
Where it really starts to look bad is the fact that a 2.5RS could run the same class. Not that I've ever seen either one on race day.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
link title
The problem is that it costs just as much to restore a 6 cylinder bench seat car as to restore a big block 4-speed, and yet at the end the BB is worth 3X to 4X as much. So you see how the numbers might work here....?
All I'm seeing here is a big hole to pour money in, that you'll never see again; worse than that, you end up with a car that is rather sedate to drive.
However, whatever pumps your tires, as we say, so if it's your dream, go for it!
I think you're right, that looks like regular heater/ventilation stuff. I'm surprised that the bids are coming so high for a very low option car which needs everything and rusted that much.
The way the market is now it seems better to buy something already done.
C) S2000
D) Miata
My wife wants me to buy another 3 series convertible because she liked having a back seat (even though nobody ever sat in it). To me, the 3-series interior space was at least as tight as 1999+ Miata, so no advantage there. I also said a little prayer ever time I attempted to put the convertible top up or down. And there were some electrical gremlins.
I could probably talk her into a Z3, which is a little better but doesn't really solve my problems with BMW top reliability (unless I got a 4 cyl model with non-power top). She'd probably go for the Boxster too, but that would be an early base model which is not ideal. I'd choose a nice Miata, because it would be cheapest to own and possibly the most fun to drive, but I think the Miata is pretty low on her list. You know, women can be a lot of trouble.
Yes, I know that well.
I think having a little more information about the intended purpose and use parameters would help in terms of feedback on your question.
A) Z3 -- good choice for all around car but not the 4 cylinder. Looks only a mother could love and possible encounter with a BMW dealer is a scary thought.
C) S2000 -- my personal favorite if....IF....wifey is into revving that engine up. No lazy shifters allowed in this car. Can you get one for $8K??
D) Miata -- dime a dozen is the problem. It's a letdown when the pizza delivery boy drives up to your house in one.
2002 MR2
(Who was it that was looking for a weekend track car? One of these would work nicely)
albeit nearly 20 years older than what you posted.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The earliest ones can get down to $8k with a healthy dollop of miles. The first two years had a plastic rear window which usually looks like $#&%$# by now if it hasn't already split and been replaced.
But, but a black vinyl roof on it, and it is almost identical to the '67 I bought (also a 6 cyl, powerglide, but buckets and floor shift). And that one only cost me $300.
Well, mine did have more rust (as in no outer rear fenders, and the trunk floor ended 6"short of the rear valance). Also missing the trim between the driver's side windows (a minor issue with rain, but WTH).
Oh, this was also 1979 that I bought it, so I don't expect it would look that good 30 years later.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Good luck with the MR2. I may have told this before but the (now) wife of a good friend of mine was talking about a car she liked and she referred to an MR2 as "Mister 2" I am not making it up!
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Well, EXCEPT for tires! That is giving me the biggest headache so far. Stock are 14x5.5, which allows for no ultra performance summer rubber I have found so far (only R comps, which aren't allowed in the class I want to run). So I think I have to get wheels and tires. But I'm limited on what will fit. The spare 17x7.5s I have stick out too far. Tirerack seems to think 16x7 will fit. We'll see.
I gotta say, so far, I've been both disappointed and pleasantly surprised by what I've been finding. I knew when I test drove it the clutch was toast. So I used that when making an offer. The 94k miles are original, I'm sure. So that's good. Engine is very tight and rev happy. Shifts great. So other than the clutch slipping under hard acceleration, it is mechanically sound. Oh, wait, there is a hole in the muffler. But since I would replace the exhaust anyway, no biggie.
Where I've been a little disappointed is in the body. It isn't quite as clean as I thought. I've been finding a good bit of makeup on it. Nothing major. All just covered up surface rust. If they had bothered to sand and prime before throwing on the touch up, it would be fine. I also realized the hood, lights, and bumper have been replaced with those from a car that was originally red. These are all things I would have noticed had we not swung by a half hour before closing on our way back from a long, exhausting day in the city and 2 cranky kids and a cranky wife waiting in the car for me. Oh well. Live and learn.
But, all in all, for $2k, I think I'm happy with my purchase. Seats are in great shape. I'm not sure if they are original, but great material and I love the 2-tone. Dash and electrics are all in good order. Also discovered that, although a tape deck in the dash that I thought I would have to replace, it has a working 10-disc changer behind the passenger's seat and a working low-profile subwoofer under the driver's seat. So that saves me a few bucks in not having to install a stereo.
So the modding begins. It is adding up to a bit more than I was anticipating. I guess I hadn't thought about it all before. Looking like $400 MINIMUM for springs and strut inserts, which is pretty cheap, but I would have to go higher depending on how stiff I want it. The clutch kit was only $120, so that was cheaper than expected. Brake pads are running me about $100. So far I've only found one set of swaybars and endlinks. $500! That seems excessive. I'll keep looking for alternatives for that. Might have to look into making my own endlinks. I have yet to price an exhaust and intake. And the aforementioned wheels and tires are gonna be at least $600. So, where are we? About $2k? Same as the cost of the entire car. It is a painful proposition.
I'm wondering if I shouldn't just start with wheels and tires and see what happens. I mean, after all, without pushing the car first, how can I be sure I'm getting the parts that are right for me? For example, of the 2 sets of swaybars on shox.com, one set is staggered with a bigger bar up front. The other set is 3/4" both front and rear. So depending on how I feel the car handles, I might choose one over the other.
Seems like researching is the hardest part.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I even plan to go to the parts supplier for a certain MINI item, go right to the warehouse, and have them un-box various parts to see how they fit and their quality. I hate buying out of catalogs.
If I were you, I'd spend a little quiet time with the car, a pad and a pencil (or a calculator) and decide if this is the car you wish to build or not. You can always bail out and get even-up and start over if you want to. You aren't wedded to this car if you have your doubts. You need to really poke around I think.
if only I made sense. I'm just the type of person that is always having second third and fourth thoughts. A "what if" person. I learned long ago that, at some point, I need to act or get off the pot or I will be frozen on the sidelines forever.
I think this is the type of car I want to work with. I tried the obese AWD...too heavy, I tried the RWD GT...too heavy, so now I'm trying the mid-engined lightweight.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
And if it isn't rusty, for 2K, hard to go wrong. Especially since you wrench on your own. Just avoid the wildly overpriced parts.
Hell, just do the basic bodywork, exhaust and clutch, and flip it for a profit.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I wouldn't worry about new wheels just yet. I'd find some good tires for the OEM wheels. See what the NA Miata guys are running on their 14s. Might want to keep an eye on some AE86 forums, as Toyota built those and the MR2 out of the same parts bins.
It wasnt a turbo, but had the turbo sport package. whopping big 185 - 60s (14"? maybe 15?)
looked big on a little car, and they were yoko A008 summer tires. Looked like a golf ball. Treacherous on wet roads (and deadly on snow), but you couldnt break them loose on an off ramp. which made sense, since they were basically designed for showroom stock racing I think.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
205/60 r14.
Not the stickiest rubber, but should do for the season while I sort the suspension.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I think Shifty has talked me out of the Boxster even though I'd probably go up to $10K for one.
I am still afraid of BMW electrics, particularly their convertible tops.
That leaves the Miata, which is certainly not a bad choice. We will see what happens when I present these thoughts to the wife. It is for her too, after all.
Finding a well maintained one owner example might be a challenge but I think is well worth it. It's a totally different beast than a Miata.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
Quite possibly the nicest early car in the country. Probably 30K on it (maybe less). Never seen winter, and probably has rarely seen rain. Totally babied, and pretty sure 100% stock. Looks like new.
I expect he will end up keeping this, but always the chance he finds a new toy. Too bad I probably won't have the cash if it does come up for sale!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I haven't seen one anywhere near $8k that wasn't a rat, I guess is my point.