Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    edited May 2012
    I hope the photo date thing is camera error. Can't stand "tribute" muscle cars.

    My pick of the lot - the Monaco. Very rare anymore, those lights and brocade interior earn points. Durable powertrain, appears to be very solid, low entry price for a nice hobby car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Jaguar: 80K for a V-12. No way. I want a SPORTS CAR.

    72 Toyota FJ -- he might get c lose to that actually if it's super sharp in and out.

    72 Buick Suncoupe -- not bad for the money!

    72 Jag XJ6 -- pile of unworkable metal. Scrap it or buy an '86 model.

    72 Duster--how does a dash rust? :confuse:
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,569
    That '72 Monaco is cool. A shame it's a 4 door sedan but that's why the price is low. One of the updated fuselage cars, and in seemingly fine original condition.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,113
    I like that '72 Monaco as well, although I'd prefer it if it was a 4-door hardtop. Interestingly, in the Monaco range, the 4-door pillared sedan was somewhat rare. 6,474 were sold, compared to 15,039 hardtop sedans, and 7,786 hardtop coupes.

    But then, the Monaco was a bit premium, priced around $100 under a Pontiac Bonneville, and maybe $300 or so above a Polara, Fury III, Impala, or Catalina. And in that price range, I guess buyers still tended to go for the 4-door hardtop, seeing it as a bit of a luxury item.

    I always liked the hidden headlights on those early 70's Monacos. They reminded me of what Mercury was doing with the Marquis, but on the Dodge seemed a bit more sporty, whereas the Marquis was going for the junior Lincoln look.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Make it three votes for the Monaco.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    A car like that, I want to see a 440 in there
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,006
    The battery had a bit of life in it when I cranked it over, ignition disconnected.
    Once I tried to really start it, no joy.
    I hooked up my Duracell jump box, but it was discharged too.
    Pushed the car out of the garage and jumped it from Old Blue.
    It's warm, so engine idled smooth right off the bat.
    Fuel pump is noisy, but I sure love that instant toque I could feel driving it a couple of miles around the block.
    If the jump box recharges, I'll drive it to work tomorrow.
    It goes through a battery every 7 years. Bought the last one in 2005.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Naw, 360 is about right for that car. That car doesn't seem like a good choice for aggressive driving. Look, even with a 440 it'll easily get creamed by Mr. Average's modern, midsize V6, so why bother trading low gas mileage for abysmal gas mileage, and paying a significant premium for the same body style. The 360 is reasonably quick, and is more representative of that genre of car in its day. It would be different if it were a midsize muscle car. In the end, though, it depends on personal preference.

    It would be interesting to hear what others think. Lower purchase price and, say, 13-14 mpg in mixed driving with the 360, or higher purchase price and 11-12 mpg for the 440?
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,569
    I agree with the 360. In '72 that wasn't too badly choked by emissions gear and so it puts out reasonable power. It is a big lump of an engine as it is and the even bigger lump of a 440 in a sedan with likely standard suspension and brakes wouldn't do it any favors.

    We had a '71 Monaco with the 318 that seemed fine so I imagine the 360 would work well.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,113
    There was an old saying in those days that for any given Mopar engine, you usually had to go the next size up in a GM or Ford to get similar performance. I don't know how true that really rings. But, the 360 in that '72 Monaco put out 175 hp. A Catalina with a 400 also put out around 175 hp, and I think that's about what the Chevy 400 smallblock put out. IIRC, all of those were with 2-bbl carbs.

    A Chevy Impala 350 put out 165 hp that year, but I believe that was with a 4-bbl. Once they started sticking 2-bbl carbs on, they got choked down to around 145-150 hp I think. Which, incidentally, is about what a 318-2bbl was good for through most of the 70's.

    I would guess 0-60 in that Monaco 360 would be around 11-12 seconds. A 440 would probably put that down into the 9-10 second range I'd guess. Maybe 8-8.5 if it was a high-performance 440 and had the right gearing?

    I'm basing these guesses on some Consumer Reports tests I remember of competing models of the era. I recall them testing a '72 Impala 350 and getting 0-60 in 12 seconds. They also tested an Impala or Caprice with the 454, and got 0-60 in around 8.7. I also recall a test, somewhere, of a similar-vintage Buick Centurion with a 455, and it returned a similar time, around 8.5 seconds or so. Also, my '79 New Yorkers, which probably weigh about as much as that Monaco, but are stuck with Lean Burn, more restrictive emissions, a tall 2.45:1 axle, and choked down to 150 hp from a 360-2bbl, can still do 0-60 in around 11-12 seconds

    A 440, especially a high-output one, would be way cool in a car like this. But, I'd be perfectly happy with the 360. In this day and age, it's not like I'm going to take the thing to the drag strip, or pull up next to a modern Camaro or Mustang (or any V-6 family car) and start gunning my motor to challenge them.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,174
    I show a '74 Coronet with the 360 doing 0-60 in 9.5s. I don't have a # for the Monaco.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    Reasonably price time capsule Usually with these things, the seller wants some crazy number but this really seems fine to take it and drive it.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,003
    I still think you should just drop crate Hemis into all your old land yachts. But that's just me.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,174
    "This car was ordered with the optional 403 ci 4 barrel. It has a turbo 350 and an optional 2.41 posi rear end. Good for 20 mpg under normal driving speeds/conditions. "

    With only 96 miles, how could he know?
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    I guess that's he's used up 5 gallons from the original tank. 15 mpg is more like it
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,113
    This car was ordered with the optional 403 ci 4 barrel. It has a turbo 350 and an optional 2.41 posi rear end. Good for 20 mpg under normal driving speeds/conditions. "

    The '78 LeSabre and Delta 88 are showing up on the EPA's database at 14 city/20 highway, with the 403 4bbl. They were full-sized cars, yet a touch lighter than the '77 Cutlass Supreme.

    So, in gentle highway driving, in the right conditions, you might hit 20 mpg on occasion. But not on a consistent basis.

    FWIW, my '76 LeMans, similar to that '77 Cutlass, but sporting a Pontiac 350-4bbl, THM350, and that same sucky 2.41:1 axle, almost got 18 mpg. Once, coming back from Carlisle. It got 16-17 on a few occasions, but the last time I took it on a trip, it got more like 15.8. Around town, I'm lucky to get 10.

    But, the Olds engines were more efficient than the Pontiac engines, and cleaner running (one reason Pontiac V-8's went away), so it's possible a 403 would get better economy than my Pontiac 350 in a similar car. But I don't think it's going to be a huge difference.

    BTW, I think that 2.41:1 axle is actually the standard ratio, not an option. In 1976, GM started putting the 2.41:1 as the standard ratio in most of their V-8 cars, in a vain attempt to get better economy. In '75, a 2.56:1 was the norm. However, I doubt they were putting that 2.41:1 in the small V-8's, like an Olds 260. At least, I hope not! Maybe they started reverting back to a different ratio by '77 though?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited May 2012
    Interesting about the horsepower comparisons, but how about torque?

    My preference for the 360 also considered that the same Monaco with the 440 would cost more, and that would be especially true for the hi po 440. The latter is the only one that might stand a chance against, say, a recent model Accord or Altima V6, even on a straight road. I imagine the most powerful '72 Monaco 440 probably couldn't keep up with a new Challenger, Mustang or Camaro V6. Well, maybe it could, un. challenge the Challenger (ooh, I know that was really bad, but the devil made me write it).
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,569
    Not impugning the seller, but that listing leaves me with more questions than answers. Why would a dealer let a 1977 model new car sit unsold in an outside lot until 1993? I have never heard of such a thing. If it sat outside for 16 years why is the interior unfaded? Those GM red interiors of that era are notorious for that. Some of the other points make no sense either. I would be very wary of this car. It would have been far better to have been used rather than sitting.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    I was wondering the same thing. You'd think that by sometime in 78, there would be a bargain hunter on the lot and they'd just say let him have the 77 or someone in there looking at the 78 who declares, I just like the old one a lot more.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You have to hand it to some people for their sheer determination to bring back the dead:

    "First Floor--Mens' Dept...Basement Level--MG Parts..."
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,003
    edited May 2012
    probably easier than putting together a ferrari that was at the bottom of a lake.

    here's another English whacko. Why buy them if you aren't going to drive them to just put them in a dusty old barn?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/suffolk/8566881.stm

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Aside from the Nissan Patrol and the Maser Quattroporto, I would have bulldozed the whole lot. Not very good taste in cars, that fellow. Picked mostly the wrong models.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    edited May 2012
    I don't know, the Khamsin can be pretty cool (if not prone to fall-apart), and the DeTomasos are good curios.

    For that MG, that's not even a restoration, more like a re-creation using a pile of old parts. The British will restore stuff that would be scrapped or parted out elsewhere. Lots of "labour of love" ideals there.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nobody much wants a Khamsin and everybody wants a Pantera.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    edited May 2012
    Of course, Pantera is easy to keep around with its Ford engine, the Khamsin was another product of the Citroen-Maserati era - which means it will break a lot and be hard to fix.

    Still, not exactly hard on the eyes for the era, and I like the clear rear panel:

    image
    image
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well the styling is tops---if you can find someone to make the Citroen hydraulics work so that you could pleasantly drive (that is, brake and steer) this rather large and heavy car without twitching it into a storefront, or putting your head into the windshield, then that's a big plus for you. And you'll have to ditch the American exhaust headers for European ones---overcome those two obstacles and I would like a Khamsin a LOT more. :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    I'm not judging them on practicality - it is all looks for me. I've developed a mild like for big 70s supercars - the large Lamborghinis of the time also have some appeal, and I hated those when I was younger.

    I'd do a nut and bolt restoration on the fintail before I'd buy anything like that though - at least the German car would run when it is finished :shades:
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    When the Honda CRX was restyled (1988?) it had a clear panel at the rear hatch. I remember R&T commenting that it gave the little CRX an exotic "Khamsin look." Well it did look good but it was that tiny, fly weight package with amazing mpg that made the CRX cool. Honda was really rolling out good stuff for the right price back then. Can't be too many CRX survivors left - even in Seattle.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    edited June 2012
    Yep, that was the 88-91 CRX. I remember that rear panel. That's when Honda really got on their game, with the 88+ Civic, Prelude, and CRX. Affordable, very modern, very nice driving cars.

    Not many CRXs around that haven't been either thrashed or modified to death. Heck, not a lot of nice survivors of the other models too. Hondas attracted a certain element not known for taste or upkeep.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,006
    My 02 Explorer is 10 years old now.
    I had been driving it to keep miles off my 1 year old Explorer.
    Now that the kid who usually drives it is back from school, I' m driving the '11.
    The other day, I took the '02 to the airport, a longer drive than I had been making.
    It hit a wall at 70 mph, which is faster than I usually drive.
    It got me thinking the that the fuel mileage was down from what I thought it should be.
    I was thinking that it should have been getting around 16.5, but it was averaging 15.5.
    In the past, I noticed that the front tire pressure could make a relatively big difference.
    After checking the fronts, I dropped them a pound.
    My other kid took it to their work the other day (130 miles round trip) and the mpg readout was @18.6.
    This is good news, since it is about to go on it's longest journey.
    It's headed to Bonnaroo it Tennessee in a couple of days.
    It's going to be a 2000+ mile trip.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    Hit a wall? That doesn't sound good :shades:

    Old Exploders, for the flack they take, do seem to be able to accumulate miles.

    My E55 is 10 years old, not too many quirks yet - the odd rattle due to local second world quality roads/thin tires, steering wheel makes a faint squeak on cold days before the interior warms up, auto dipping side mirror gets jerky in cold or hot weather. The old car on the other hand, it's a 4 wheeled quirk.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,340
    A friend of mine has a similar vintage Explorer with almost 170 on the clock. It did puke a tranny at 130 ish, but hasn't been too bad to him otherwise. I drove it not that long ago and you can hear the fuel pump while driving. I told him to start budgeting for that and he said its been that way forever.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    Aren't Chevy parts the cheapest on Earth? Whenever you see a Summit ad, the parts are always from SBC
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,174
    Spammers are getting clever, posting halfway relevant comments along with their spam link :mad: :lemon:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    spam deleted.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,883
    What are peoples' thoughts on them?

    "Simca"
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    edited June 2012
    "The green one had a perfect body till a tree decided to fall directly on the roof"

    LOL...nice version of "ran when parked"

    These look like Simca 1000s, probably from the late 60s. Parts cars for unobtanium bits, or scrap, so worth a couple hundred apiece then, maybe a little more to those three people who have roadworthy examples. Very low demand.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably best to crush, send to Turkey, and re-incarnate as teapots for tourists.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,883
    edited June 2012
    Hahaha; yeah, I was thinking $1,500 was pretty optimistic. Yes, they are likely rare (I had never seen one before), but rare doesn't mean valuable.

    My Econoline is rare these days, too. :P

    The Simca looks tiny. I thought it might be fun to make a project out of it, but I have too many projects already... I just wish more of my projects were cars.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,006
    Got an update that they were well into Virginia.
    Keeping finger's crossed.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    When the seller says he doesn't know much about them, I'm sure that's an understatement. You mean, like how much they're worth?
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Is free too much? This C code ruster in Westerville has been stripped and seller wants $1,000. There has to be a better way to start a pro street Mustang project.

    Seller in Heath wants $15k for this GTA shell S code. Restoration would blow up the math but if the documentation checks out at least it's a 390 GTA to start with.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Seems a lot to ask for just a body on a car that might bring you $50K restored...you're already $15K in the whole, and $35K isn't going to get you even close to a restored car....and, it's still going to be a "bitsa" car---bitsa this one and bitsa that one, so you won't have much to say about originality either. I think he's about $10K over on price.

    I think the C code shell is worthless.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,006
    edited June 2012
    One of my kids just got back from a 2100 mile or so trip with the '02 Explorer.
    Basically, CT to southern TN including a dip into GA.
    Just under 125k when it left, right at 127k 8 days later when it got back.
    At one point, I got a call the the ABS warning light came on.
    To my kid's credit they looked it up in the manual and it meant service it soon.
    Told them, we'll fix it when you get back.
    Didn't find out that it went out an hour or so later for another 6 days when they got back.
    Overall, with 3 people plus camping gear, it averaged 18.9 mpg. EPA highway is 19.

    Today's '91 Mustang story.
    Got up @ 3:45 am to take one of my kids the airport for a 5:50 am flight.
    As we got into Hartford, the engine fluttered a few times, then everything got quiet.
    I look at the tach, 0 rpm's. Err Err.
    Luckily, I was going fast enough that we had some momentum to make the next exit.
    I put the car in neutral, cranked it, nothing, pumped the gas pedal and cranked it, nothing, put the gas pedal to the floor and cranked it, nothing.
    Told my kid, 'call mom to pick you up'.
    Coasted off the highway down the ramp across the intersection and found a public parking garage.
    As I was coasting in, there were 13 'reserved' outside spots on the left, right was down hill into the garage.
    No way I was going right.
    12 of the 13 spots had names on them so I sort of made it into spot 13.
    It was my best shot to not get towed. Maybe they would think a new big wig got hired.
    Once I rolled to a stop, i put the car in park, and it started right up.
    Rest of the trip was fine, although we were on edge waiting for something to go wrong.
    I guess the car barfed out whatever the problem was.
    The mustang just crossed over 36K today.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 17,340
    I'd be willing to be the TFI module on the base of the distributor is getting flaky. Common problem on those 5.0s.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 21,006
    What's really strange is the the check engine light has been blinking a code for AT LEAST 10 years, until the engine is really warmed up.
    Since it stalled, no check engine light. :surprise:
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    It's a project to even tell what this is

    http://knoxville.craigslist.org/cto/3091802234.html

    This can't possibly be safe
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 54,003
    I am speechless. A new winner in the "no, you haven't seen everything" contest!

    so the front end of an Olds acheiva, the back end of a grand am, and an old IH cab stuck on top? And I think they skipped welding, and went right to bondo and duct tape to hold it all together.

    I imagine one good bump and it would separate into the component parts!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,731
    "duel exhaust"

    I bet
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,451
    Scary part is that he says he has other projects to get to
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