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Comments
I was also noticing that the ST is approx. 300lbs heavier than the CC. Maybe that is one of the reasons it needs a bigger engine? (just a thought). It does show that Nissan has piss poor gas mileage!! (Besides my cup holder complaint; that is my other big complaint)
Bad timing and coincidence could be statements describing a new Pathfinder print ad published in the September issue of MotorTrend magazine. The ad depicts a 2001 Pathfinder and a Concorde jet side-by-side ready for a quick drag race. Tragically an Air France Concorde jet burst into flames and crashed into a hotel in a Paris suburb killing all 109 on board and four on the ground on the same day the MotorTrend arrived into the hands of many subscribers. In an even more chilling coincidence, the Concorde featured in the Nissan ad is an Air France plane. No word yet if Nissan plans to cancel further ads with the Concorde. Earlier in June, a helicopter crashed in British Columbia while filming for a Nissan truck commercial. All four on board were killed.
I do wish the ST was a bit heavier in the [non-permissible content removed]. I loose a bit of traction on wet roads when I jump on the green light. Im hoping the 70lb tonneau cover will help that a bit.
• 4.6L V8 intake manifold failures:
Cracking plastic intake manifolds. Effects engines through 1997.
I guess they put better material on the bumpers then the manifolds.
Nissan's quality may be a little better, but I would be more than willing buy any Ford with complete confidence in its quality and reliability. (BTW I own a Nissan CC and have never owned any Ford, so I have no pro-Ford/anti-Nissan bias.)
I will now try to counter some of recent arguments that keep insisting that the quality gap between Nissan and Ford is huge. (I should ad that I am a professional market research analyst with considerable automotive industry exerience -- Nissan has been a client of ours.)
The GE warranty argument is bogus. Extended warranties are almost pure profit for the sellers, so the difference in expected repair costs is less than half the $700 differential you cited. Also the average Explorer retails for nearly twice the average for all Frontiers. This accounts for another big chunk of the warranty price difference. The real difference, spread over the six-year period comes to more like $30 bucks annually -- big deal. (BTW only a sucker buys extended warranties on anything.)
The "check out the other postings and count the complaints" argument doesn't ad up either, once you consider the huge number of Rangers & Explorers sold over the years vs. the very small number of Frontiers.
The rest of the arguments are mostly anecdotal and, therefore, almost meaningless and easily countered by others with a different story to tell based on their own experience. The fact that you once owned one vehicle and it was crap and owned another and it was good, while important to you, will have no bearing on anyone elses experience.
I agree that there are some relatively minor differences in overall quality between various competing makes and models of vehicles sold in the U.S. But, with only a few exceptions, all are very reliable and of good quality. You can expect to get ten years of service out of almost anything you buy unless you are unlucky or abuse the vehicle. That should be good enough for almost anyone. The expected repair cost differences aren't that great when spread out over the life of the vehicle.
I chose to buy the Nissan CC, but I put other factors ahead of quality/reliability issues BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE IS TOO SMALL TO MATTER as much as many of you think it does.
I would like to comment on the folowing which isn't a Nissan vs Ford issue:
"But, with only a few exceptions, all are very reliable and of good quality. You can expect to get ten years of service out of almost anything you buy unless you are unlucky or abuse the vehicle"
In my opinion, bull!! (to everything but the 10 years of service) Read Phil Edmunston's Lemonaid guide.
There are very good quality vehicles that are sold in the US; there are also many poor quality vehicles sold. Overall Car quality is way up over the 70's and 80's; but there are still a good many lemons out there and contrary to what you and your market research says IMO consumers are more than ever researching (using the internet and mags) their auto purchases, and QUALITY & RELIABILITY is an issue with them. That is why JD Powers and others are still in business!
By the way, your STUPID remark "(BTW only a sucker buys extended warranties on anything.) shows very poor judgement as I will bet there are many people who have bought Ext. warranties (and are EXTREMELY glad they did) who will resent your rightous attitude. My father is one. He bought an extended warranty on his '93 Caravan which cost $1100 Can - and saved at least $4000 on repairs. And I can go on. So think before you write!
(By the way I agree with your decision not to buy an ext. warranty on your Nissan)
In reference to your post 319 line:
"(BTW only a sucker buys extended warranties
on anything.)"
I used to have the niave thinking like that too. Until I worked at several car dealerships one boat dealership and two of my best friends are service writers(one for chrysler/dodge and the other for a buick dealership). The clincher for me buying the extended warranty this time was when my '94 chevy S-10 had 39K miles on it and the auto transmission went out. It had to be replaced and it was out of warranty(36/3). I passed on the 'sucker' extended warranty and ignored the mail offers to buy it too. The dealer kind of helped me out with a P50. In '98 I bought a '95 Acura Legend LS, the Acura dealer gave a 12K mile/1yr warranty on the car. This time I bought the $400 36/3 extended warranty to add to the dealer warranty. In Feburary this year the radiator developed a leak, turns out the entire radiator had to be replaced(bad design on the return neck). Luckily I had the 'sucker' warranty because that little beauty would have set me back $900 rather, I spent $25(deductible). So in March when I bought my CC I broke down and spent the premium on Nissan's warranty(because the aftermarket, while cheaper, can use whatever parts they want used, remanufactured or new). I bought the extended warranty because of several reasons Japanese parts are more, I bought 4wd and in some cases this truck will be used hard not abused but I did buy a truck. It will and does see towing and offroad. I sell extewnded warranties to new boat or engine buyers myself. I see what can happen to brand new products granted they aren't autos and the boating industry has alot of catching up to do but their still brand new. Most aftermarket warranties in the boating industry are a joke. The extended warranty co. I had on the Acura didn't believe the dealer, so I had to take the radiator to a radiator shop to prove to the warranty co. that it indeed needed replacing.
I'm not saying that there is a big gap between the makes but there are more problems with domestics than foreign. Whether it be because there's more of them or design problems. Knowing this I wouldn't hesitate buying a Ford or another Chevy(if chevy corrected the problem) the only one I can't bring myself to buy would be a Chrysler product.
thjsmith said:
The GE warranty argument is bogus. Extended warranties are almost pure profit for the sellers,
so the difference in expected repair costs is lessthan half the $700 differential you cited. Also the average Explorer retails for nearly twice the average for all Frontiers. This accounts for another big chunk of the warranty price difference. The real difference, spread over the six-year period comes to more like $30 bucks annually -- big deal. (BTW only a sucker buys extended warranties on anything.)
I say:
I agree that Extended warranties are mostly profit, (I didn't buy one) but to say because the Explorer lists for twice that of the Frontier, (hence the $700 difference in coverage) makes no sense. GE isn't paying off full value for a crash. There paying for individual component failures. If an A/C compressor dies on either car, repairs costs are going to be relatively close to each other. In some cases possibly more on the Nissan, as a fair percentage of parts are still coming from Japan. The extra $700 has more to do with the frequency of needed repairs. GE needs to make X amount of dollars on each contract, they know they on AVG will be laying out more money on the Explorer, so they have to charge more to make their margin.
Many of you cite anectdotal evidence of the worth of extended warranties along the lines of "It paid off for me or someone I know, therefore it must be a good deal." This is a bogus argument. You must work in a dealers' F&I dept.
For every time an extended warranty pays off for someone there are tens of thousands of consumers for whom they were a complete waste of money. Just because someone wins the lottery every once in a while, does this mean lottery tickets are a good investment?
Extended warranties are a rip-off. They are almost pure profit for the companies offering them. This is not just my opinion. I just ran a news service database search. Read on:
Data from the Financial Accounting Standards Board show that for every dollar sellers take in from selling warranties, they spend only 4 cents on service. With cars, problems generally happen either early in a car's life, when it is covered by the manufacturer's warranty, or when it reaches more thaN 90,000 miles, past the period when most extended warranties would cover repairs.
"Be wary of extended warranties. They are big profit centers for the dealers that sell them -
and very few extended-warranty buyers ever use the warranties. " Barbara Berger Opotowsky,
president, Better Business Bureau, New York.
Does it make sense to buy an extended warranty on my new car? No. The Consumer Federation of America recommends against such policies. "Service contracts are a poor value," said Jack Gillis, a spokesman for the Consumer Federation of America in Washington. "The companies who sell contracts are very sure that, on average, your repairs will cost considerably less than what you pay for the contract -- if not, they wouldn't be in business."
Consumer Reports magazine routinely advises its readers to "resist the offer of an extended warranty, which usually amounts to expensive and unnecessary insurance."
Industry experts and analysts estimate that retailers can make as much as 75 percent gross profit on selling these plans. A study by the National Science Foundation (NSF) found that you nearly always pay more for the contract than you would for the repair bills it covers. The study showed that extended warranties were 10 to 16 times more costly than fixing the malfunctions they developed over the covered time period.
The underwriters of service contracts are betting that your purchase won't need extensive repairs. They know their field. Most new cars operate well beyond the manufacturer's warranty period without needing major repairs.
Are extended warranties a good deal? "Get real," The Wall Street Journal's Jonathan Clements answered sarcastically in a recent column. "Companies offer only policies that they think they will make money on. The likelihood is that you will never collect."
Researchers at the Consumer's Association (UK) say that extended warranties do not represent value for the money, according to a report published 4/6/00.
Consumer groups say extended warranties are nothing more than a waste of your money and only help sellers profit off consumers' fears. "They just aren't needed," said Rana Arons, a spokeswoman at Consumer Reports.
Take the money you would spend on an extended warranty and invest it elsewhere as a repair fund to use as needed.
Remind me not to go head to head with you...
Other choices would be, set aside the $800 or so you may spend on a warranty, put it in an interest bearing account, then if you need it for repairs you will have it, if not, you have a little extra money down the road. Me personally, I did not buy an extended warranty on my frontier, but I work at the dealership and can get a loaner if anything needs to be done to it, and I get a discount on work int he shop, also I probably will trade it in in the next year or so and it still has plenty of warranty on it. Also repairs on the frontiers are relatively inexpensive, I did sell my friend a warranty for the used 96 240sx I sold him, he paid
$700 for it, about 8 months later he needed the two front struts replaced, an $800 job! he got a loaner, paid his deductible, no problems. I think a warranty can be a good idea, and sometimes not, just depends on what you want, just evaluate everything and make your own choice.
While I like the creative comment of investing the money rather than buying the warranty and use it if needed, there's a risk that the money won't be there. Is that what you did instead of buying your comprehesive or liability insurance? Ok that could be debatable by saying the risk might be higher...you could get into an accident pulling off the lot or somebody key's your truck as you run in the store for milk on your way home from picking up your new truck. But what about health insurance. Why not invest that money and use it when you need it? The problem of investing is anything that you invest in is a risk. If you go with something so secure that it will be there when you need it the intrest will be so low that it would take forever to build up to price of a repair. One repair wipes you out, then what? Because when your vehicle gets to the point of a major repair it usually has more suprises in store for you.
Bye!
I'm a regular "lurker" of Edmunds and thought I'd throw this tidbit of info around. For all you southern Californians out there, remember when the Nissan King Cabs were the choice vehicle of the lifeguards, here? A couple of years ago they went to Ford Rangers? Well, guess what? yep, they're switching back to Nissans as their truck of choice, the CC to be more specific. Just something to think about. Thanks.
Almost everyone of you said the consumers reports was one of the only mags you trust and they say warrantees are BS but you guys fight it anyway. What's the deal?
As far as fighting it,I thought everyone was offering their opinions and reasons on both sides of the question.
Why spend $35 a year on AAA,when you get the towing in your insurance coverage for alot less.
As for purchasing Extra warranty - Lots of cases it is not needed. Sometimes if the price is really attractive, peace of mind is nice. I don't want to get into a discussion on which vehicles I think need them; but there are some I think need extended warranty. There is also the fact of where you are purchasing the extended warranty; is there a deductible, etc..
Overall, I think you need to do a whole bunch of research on any extended warranty that is available for the car you have. In lots of cases you will find it a waste of money - in others - it isn't.
(by the by - $450 for a comprehensive ext. that covers to 100,000 miles with no deduct.. it is worth it on most cars)
That being said, these surveys have to be taken with a grain of salt; 1. only 250,000 car owners out of 17mil sold each year? 2. Who are the CR subscribers who do the surveys??? Could they be more affluent people who tend to have higher incomes; thus biased towards more expensive "in" vehicles? 3. Wouldn't you expect a high priced vehicle to be more reliable?
"U.S.-based Consumers Reports (CR) has named the 1992-1999 Infiniti G20 sedan as the most trouble-free car according to its new reliability data. The data also shows the 1993 Chevrolet S-10 Blazer and GMC S-15 Jimmy to be the most troublesome.
CR's data is based on a survey of 250,000 subscribers. Other survey highlights:
Japanese manufacturers are still the most reliable, followed closely by European cars; American nameplates are still bringing up the rear but are gaining ground; Chrysler is top domestic brand, followed closely by Ford, then GM; the most common problems occur in the electrical systems and body hardware."
Haven't seen any comments about the CR article I posted? Everybody on holidays??
Your article you posted was quite interesting,and may reflect what was on the news yesterday.It was reported that consumers were starting to buy more foreign made vehicles.
Good luck on your fishing trip.
I didn't look do you have the sunroof? I can see now why you didn't go with the 'rack'. I have the 'rack' and the sunroof. The biggest problem with that is when I take down the sunshade I get a nice view of the underside of the wind-deflector
I read your CR article seems like they liked it overall. I still like our body-styles better...more truck-like to me. Plus I'm still not sold on the SC. I really don't know why they didn't put the 3.5L in it. I guess they're trying somethig new.
Good luck on your trip. If the girls are like ours they'll probably win...hehehe I can't go fishiung this weekend I am flying to Georgia to attend a friend's wedding.
Ford is looking into the Firestones they put on some of thier trucks. An article in todays paper says they have had numerous complaints about tires blowing. These are NOT offroad tires Ford puts on their trucks.. If you plan to offroad with your ST (even on gravel) get rid of those Firejunkes asap!! Mine on my Ranger were only a 4ply... Moved up to an 8ply BFG and made a heck of a difference in truck offroad performance along with stance and look of the vehicle...
I know I am going to get hammered for this by the Nissan clan. But In every Ford truck room I have posted this to all owners. I even sent a letter to Ford complaining about the cheap tires they put on their trucks.. At least I admit when somthing is wrong...
Why would we hammer you? Your being civil, of course it's because your saying there's something wrong with a Ford.
Humm Now thats an ST!
BTW, I'm sure Ford will really read your letter...yeah right! LOL