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Lot's of speculation why.
I would LOVE a sport version of the next Corolla with the little 2L V-6 they use in the Japanese market models. But in that case, I bet the standard engine stays a 1.8, bumped up to 140 hp or so, to continue competing head to head with the Civic while keeping the fuel economy high.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
200 Hp Engine, Tiptronic Transmision, ABS, EBD,4 disk Brakes, Navigation System, Sun Roof, 17 Alloy Wheels and 215-50-17 Goodyear Tires, front and rear stability bars, this will be a nice and fun to drive car....
Call me a science geek, but I did the math on what 17.2 km/L comes to as far as US miles per gallon.
That's 40 mpg in US miles and US gallons: one less than the current Corolla gets highway.
:shades:
Well, here's the link to the vtec site post I was talking about. In this post, he's comparing the new Civic engine to the new Corolla engine.
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message%5fid=630270
They would be unwise to price the base model higher than the Civic LX, I think.
And geez, to look at that press release linked above makes me wish Toyota would put more of the features in Japan out for buyer's option here. I assume the new model will have optional keyless start-n-go, as that seems to be getting very common in the market. Back-up cameras, I think, will still be unavailable here.
In Japan, the only available manual is with the 1.5L engine, which I assume we will not get here. I truly hope this does not mean no manual availability with the new model, otherwise I have owned my last Corolla.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Most Corollas (from this generation) that I see ARE autos, but there are definitely a good deal of 5Ms out there. I wouldn't want a 5M in the car, though, due to the currently awkward driving position and relationship between pedal, steering wheel, shifter, and driver geometry.
~alpha
~alpha
I also hope they don't make the next Corolla's auto option a CVT like in Japan. That would be bad enough as an option, but absolutely a non-starter for me as the sole transmission.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
~alpha
No clutch pedal!
As for the price of the next Corolla, I was thinking what if they base it around $17,5? It would still be more than $2000 less than any of the volume Camry models (CE notwithstanding), and would be fairly competitive with the Civic. But in real-world terms it would be a good $2-3K more than the current model, quite a price shock from one generation to the next. I suppose it would get discounts fairly quickly as the new Camry did this year, but none of the deep discounting it is getting now, so I figure it would still be a solid $2000 or more higher after the changeover.
I quite like the look of the current one, it has grown on me over time, and given what I am sure will be a hefty price hike come February 2008, I might just run out next fall and buy one of the last current-gen models. I can forgive some of the cheapest aspects of the current model given a real-world price of $14-16K. These days, that's not a lot of car money...
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It will cost more to buy because of lack of rebates and other discounting and maybe there will be some new standard equipment that will be added to base MSRP (maybe standard ABS etc.), but I really doubt there will be any shockinlg higher MSRP list price for a like equipped new model vs old model.
It is also possible there will be new optional eqipment that will make the max fully loaded price higher. For instance it might have optional nav system and they could also bring back leather seats and so on that could greatly raise the price of a maxed out Corolla.
However, if you option it closely to a equivelent old model, I bet the MSRP will only be marginally higher. Nothing dramatically higher on the MSRP for the same equipment.
If you wanted side curtain airbags and ABS, then you would have had to pay for it as an option anyway instead of it being included in the base price.
The bottom line price after the options you want is the real price. Forget base MSRP before options.
I'm sure many Yaris shoppers reluctantly upgraded to Corollas or something else after giving up on finding a Yaris with the options they wanted that existed only in the brochures.
The Civic is the most direct competitor and it has these things standard and included in the price. The Corolla will simply have to have a price that is competitive the a new Civic.
Otherwise, why bother with a Yaris when it gets no better fuel economy if you could get a Corolla for near the same price?
With regards to a value leader model, backy, does the entry level version necessarily mean value leader?
I think its reasonable to expect that Toyota will NOT introduce both ABS and VSC as standard on the next Corolla, though I would expect ABS and side curtains. At current retail prices, these (necessary, IMO) options add about $950 IIRC, and so I don't think its unreasonable to expect that big of a price increase on the Corolla. The good thing about a redesign, though is that it will likely it is a fresh design, which should be worth something in itself, as well as several standard features that might be upgrades from the current (for ex, how the Camry moved to 16 inch wheels as standard...).
That said, side curtains were made standard on Camrys with the redesign, and the prices did not jump $650 on comparable LEs, for example.
From a competitve standpoint, I don't think the Yaris competes well at the bottom of the market, except equipped very specifically (like a loaded 3 door hatch with ABS, Side Curtains, and 5M), but the sales numbers indicate otherwise.
I mention this because I'd *RATHER* see the Corolla move up a notch, as the Mazda 3 and Civic, and to some extent, the Elantra have done.... there's no longer a need for the Corolla to carry the entry econo car market for Toyota.
~alpha
Now I think we could still see a CE without the power package, and whoever said above that the Corolla CE is a rental fleet-only model should come check out dealerships in my area - plenty of CEs for retail sale at every lot. I hope they make the ABS and side airbags standard for all Corollas, but given that they are contemplating putting in standard VSC for '09, I think we could see optional side airbags in all but the top-line trim, as a measure to keep price from getting too high.
I am torn - on the one hand, the current Corolla is a heck of a deal given real-world prices hovering around $15K pretty well-equipped. OTOH, I wouldn't mind seeing them turn the Corolla into a mini-Camry with better gas mileage, with the price hike that would entail, given that the Yaris is a pretty good stand-in for Toyota's new low price leader. To accomplish the mini-Camry feat, it will need better NVH isolation, a less raspy engine sound, and a much better standard equipment list. And OF COURSE, a 5-speed auto instead of the current 4-speed. (And a 6-speed manual, please please Toyota?!)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
When gas was going up in the summer Toyota sold out of Corolla's for a while and dropped the $500 rebate for about 4 months. Now as this model gets even older the $500 rebate is back. When the new model comes out in 14 mo's or so it will be without the rebate but more equipment ( ABS + all the airbags ). I'll guesstimate now that the pricing is very very similar on an MSRP basis
Standard Equipment: ABS, 6/7 airbags, Aux input, Cr Ctrl, Pwr W/L/M, std sound system.
$16200 CE AT - One basic standard trim
.... EJ w/BT add ~ $1000
.... VS/Trac add ~ $650
$17900 LE AT ( AW, 6 Disc w/440 wt JBL & BT + VSC/Trac )
.... NV add ~ $1200
.... LA add ~ $1100
.... SR add ~ $900
$18700 S AT - Same as the LE but with the sport package
.... same options
Deduct $800 for 5 MT.
CVT? No idea here.
Also keep in mind that the wholesale price of any extras is much less than retail, and volume production will bring that down even more.
Car makers are constantly bring in highly improved and more fully featured new models and are barely raising the price.
Now Toyota may raise the price a few hunded each year during the life of the new model and wind up with a $1,000 or more increase, but it will not happen at the introduction.
They will also most likely keep VSC as an option as it is on the Camry.
http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=13200C6W8XLO
CE, $17K base, with the LE at $18,700 and the S at $19,5. I bet that's about where they come in. They will be adding a lot of standard equipment to a car that is currently way behind the market in base form.
Subtract $800 for 5MT, as you say.
All the Corollas come with A/C standard now, which I assume will continue. So with the CE at $17K, they would still come in lower than the Civic LX, which is the lowest Civic in the line to come with A/C.
And then of course there is no guarantee they will continue the CE-LE-S format. I for one don't particularly like the current set-up - it makes no sense. The LE and S are both upmarket trims, neither better than the other, and both missing key ingredients I would expect from the upmarket trims. There is no logical progression.
I would REALLY like to see them do with the next Corolla S what they did with the new Camry SE this year - actually make it a sport model, with larger rims and tires standard, and sportier suspension. I am hopeful they will do that.
Then they really should give the LE a proper complement of standard equipment - no more having to add a package to get power windows or whatever.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Sounds like a Full Tilt promotion..
In all Toyota's lines the upper trim of the lower model overlaps in price with the lower trim of the upper model... whew!! If the Yaris loaded up is around $16500 then the CE needs to be in this range also.
As backy pointed out though VSC will be part of all the vehicles so it might be at $17000 but with VSC/Trac included not as an option ( a forced option ).
This tells me that Toyota is planning RADICALLY-styled Corolla sedan and five-door wagon models, something unique for the North American market (USA, Canada and possibly Mexico).
They may mean newly redesigned models introduced from 2009 on.
They may also might mean by the end of calendar year 2009 (meaning 2010 model year cars).
By the first definition, they would not have standard VSC until the next redesigns since both the Corolla and Yaris would have been introduced prior to 2009.
I'd love to see a $21000 loaded up one with Navi, top quality leather, 440 wt JBL & BT looking like the European version but it would not be a big seller IMO. As nice as it might be buyers would still opt for the larger quieter more basic CE/LE Camry.
It wouldn't have "top quality" leather since even the Camry does not, but they could sell small numbers of loaded Corollas.
Honda does not sell huge quantities of Civic Sis with Nav at $22K, but they sell some anyway.
I hope that they try both and at least offer a top of the line trim. I'm guessing though that like the XRS it won't be ordered very often by the public and Toyota will let it die off. No orders, no volume, no production.
What does the N American buyer who's ready to spend $20000 want in a vehicle? A base Camry or Accord? or a loaded up Corolla or Civic? Where's the volume and the most money to be made?
And I had people telling me to stuff it when all I wanted was leather Corolla seats to cosset my tired bum!
Seriously, though - you have a point. It would be nice to have a "premium" version of the Corolla that offers luxury features (auto climate control, leather seats, better sound insulation) for those of us in the "we like small cars" consumer segment.
Add that some folks who like the luxury features are also cost-conscious (same folks who buy loaded Jetta diesels or, if infused with cash, Audi A4 1.8Ts or Volvo S40s) and a "Everyman's" Corolla with some creature comforts makes sense.
But, then, what the heck do I know?!
Im agree with your point of view, I think 2008 US corolla design will be a small Lexus IS 350. loaded, powerfull, and stylish... to be ahead of competition.... toys cars like mazda 3 and civic.....