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FWD works better in snow as the most weight is on the drive wheels. It puts more energy on the ground. And a narrow tire is better here than a wide one. It puts more lbs per sq in on the ground.
Yes, RWD works in snow as long as you are careful. The problem is that if the car skids, it skids with the rear end first. This is much harder to correct than if the front tries to break loose. A "snow belt" driver learns to handle this problem.
On sheet ice, FWD/RWD makes no difference. So little traction nothing matters.
For me, Lucerne needs to remain FWD. Even in Georgia we have had only one RWD car in the family in 15 years (7 new cars). Just add that 5 speed transmission and produce a reliable car....
Also, do you think the whole buick line will get the portholes?
They look good on this car.
It is not clear to me where GM is going with the last of the large FWD sedans. There were plans for a large RWD Buick sedan when the Zeta platform was still under development, but that platform was put into a hold to speed up deployment of the large trucks/SUV's. Now there seems to be a change in the RWD Zeta platform in that they plan a Camaro on a RWD platform, but this may leave the large RWD sedan on hold for some time yet.
This was in the planning stages:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Spy_Shots/Spy_Shots_2008_Buick_Lausa- nne.S178.A8183.html
This buick has all the credentials it needs to bring back buick's brand. It needs other cars in the stable to follow suit. I hope they redesign that lacrosse pretty soon. Nice car, missing many features and a bit short on style.
Also, if you read enough comments on Edmunds.com about Traction Control and snow, it seems some complain that it makes driving up a snow covered hill (from a standing start) or getting "unstuck" more difficult as the wheels will not spin. My assumption is that they have FWD cars. Is this true, or... people just complaining? This is all new to me.....
http://www.prdomain.com/companies/G/GeneralMotors/newsreleases/200232218011.htm
You're right that they had them on more than just the top of the line, although the number could vary depending on model.
I'm still unclear whether the 3.5 and 3.9 are based on the old Chevy Citation V-6 architecture. My understanding was that they were. For that reason alone I would avoid any vehicle that has them. If they are not stemming from that design I would be interested in knowing their origins.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Value_engine
Note that the engine is based on the old design, but since the block is longer, the whole engine is really redesigned and one would think much better.
I have no doubt that the 2.8 was good for its time -- my father had one in a '82 Olds Omega and it was very good, if somewhat gutless. However its later iterations as the 3.1 and 3.4 today seem thrashy and crude. I was in a Chevy minivan with one tonight and moving away from a stop the engine sounded anything but refined. I can only assume that the 3.5 and 3.9 share similar characteristics. It seems a shame to put such an engine in a premium vehicle.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Not sure about the NVH of the 3.5/3.9 but the big difference would be that DOHC's require high revving to get going and the non DOHC's normally have lots of pulling power at lower RPM allowing the non DOHC driver to not have to rev their engine to death to get going.
The C & D test was done some time ago and is no longer on their website, but here is something newer: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=27&article_id=3467
Sounds like your heart is on the Lucerne.
Drove the Avalon and the Buick and the Lucerne was much nicer in my opinion. Didn't drive the ES330. Too expensive, too bland for my tastes.
Let us know what you do.
Just FYI
Thank you so much for that....You are so right. I'm buying the Buick! The tie goes to the American automaker!
For comparison's sake, the Avalon sold 8697 in March and 22543 for 2006. Damn close numbers, wouldn't you say??
Also, the Lucerne sold more than the Five Hundred, which was 7726, and the Montego which was 2225. However combined they beat the Lucerne.
The Lucerne is a great car, and it is also selling pretty well as the numbers indicate. Just slightly behind the Avalon, it''s chief rival.
Now the ES has been out there a long time and the new one is just getting out so we will see how they both do for this year! I would say the Lucerne competes both with the Avalon and ES. Size wize bigger than both, price wize straddles both.
lets all do this, meybe they will wake up and change at least the stats!
There are almost 1300 post on this forum and it seems like all those who actually own one have few if any complaints.
Go to the Avalon forum and it is not the same. Of course if you buy a car you probably bought it even if you know the faults because the +'s outweigh the -'s of the competition.
Then again it is probably a vast right wing conspiracy geting all the good comments on this forum!!
Actually if you listen to some of the comments on the forums you see both sides of the coin. There are some who are so anti domestic it sounds like the Hitler of cars. No matter what, domestics are junk. If a media reviewer has that kind of feelings (and they are people too) then it is awful tough to look at a car unbiased.
Look at the figures. Whose still #1 automaker in the world? Do I hear a GM?? :shades:
The first automobile to be mass produced in the United States was the 1901, Curved Dash Oldsmobile. The Buick also has a pretty rich history. Buick is well liked in China. Lucerne seems to be selling in the USA. Doing well in car reviews is not really nessasary it seems for this particular car line. Would not worry too much about what Edmund's thinks of this auto. If you like it, if people buy it without too much discounting, is all GM needs to worry about at this point in time. Being the automaker with a profit each year is the bottom line. - Loren
Very syrprising because they have not alwayse liked US cars, even if they are supposed to
It would be nice if the lucerne got the 3.9L, either the current once (240 hp) or the new one at the ny auto show (270hp) as a base engine. The would help sales even more.
As for a bias against GM by those doing the reviews, I suppose it is possible, though the one paying the bills, as in advertising dollars is at least in part GM, so it would seem like biting the hand that feeds you.
I will say this, I think that they should have developed a small (3 to 4 liter) V8 to use in smaller cars like the CTS. This engine could either replace the DOHC V6 line or the pushrod line.
I think that the w-platform (Impala, Grand Prix and LaCrosse) will end production at the end of the 2008 model year. I would not be surprised to see the Lucerne and DTS cease production soon after that. I do not think that the Lucerne is going to get the 6 speed FWD transmission anytime soon if ever.
The six speed automatic is going into production for the Saturn Aura first. Production of the six speed will be limited and supplying more than the Saturn is unlikely. The Aura is an early 2007 model, so some all new 2007 models might get the six speed too, but they may be delayed like the Lucerne was. I would expect some early all new 2008 models to get the six speed. As time goes on, production of the six speed will increase, and the six speed will replace more of the four speeds, but this will take a couple of years at best (2007 to 2009).
http://media.gm.com/us/powertrain/en/product_services/r_cars/car%20eng%20trans.h- - tml
Yes the 3.4 still hangs on in the Equinox/Torrent and the venerable 3800 in a few cars but they will be gone soon.
The DTS would use the same engine, but meybe by then it would be more powerful in the DTS. GM needs these cars, especially the DTS to cater to "older" buyers who are very loyal to the brand and prefer this type of car.
If they really phase out the DTS then its a bad business case for the Lucerne? After 2008-2009 they should have these cars on newer platforms, probably with available AWD in adittion to stability control.
What do you guys think?
As far as the GM/Ford developed six speed goes it also wouldn't make sense not to use it in most of the cars. There is a five speed they can use as well, but the six speed transmission will spread across the line.
However, the Lucerne/DTS platform is basically the same platform that the 1995 Aurora/Riviera were on. These two models started production in early 1994. That make the basic Lucerne/DTS platform 12 years old at this time, and in 5 years it will be 17 years old.
Since they have announced a 6T75 version of the six speed automatic, good for engines up to 300 lb-ft of torque, it does make some sense that they may use it on the Lucerne/DTS, but this may depend on just how much longer they remain in production, which depends on how sales are. I think that if they are to remain in production for 5 years, they need to sell a total of 1 million copies to be profitable.
It does not make much sense to me to put a 270 hp V6 in the Lucerne and still keep the 275 hp V8. I do think that a pushrod V6 makes sense for the base Lucerne, then perhaps a DOHC V6 for the CXL, and the V8 for the CXS. But if the 240 hp 3.6 is used in the CXL, then the CX should have less hp, perhaps the 3.5 V6. Otherwise, the 240 hp 3.9 V6 to replace the 3800 makes sense. This all assumes that the Lucerne will be in production through the 2010 model year (5 full years of production - 500,000 to 700,000 total copies).
I really think that GM needs to bring out RWD large sedans to get serious attention from consumers. Right now the Lucerne and DTS are only attractive to current owners of large FWD cars - that is current Buick or Deville owners. Neither of these cars will bring new buyers into Buick or Cadillac dealerships, and that is what GM needs, new buyers.
Source?
I am not aware of a 5 speed automatic trans. for FWD at GM.
For RWD, yes, 1 is currently used by Caddy in the STSs (except STS-v) for example, but not for FWD. And I don't see 1 at gmpowertrain . .
- Ray
6 speeds, no waiting?
Epsilon 2 will be the W car replacement as far as a high volume midsize vehicle to compete with the likes of Camry/Accord/Lexus ES. Buick needs a product in that size segment and it will probably be the LaCrosse/2009. The Large car is a dieing market and I see GM using a platform that is out there. If Zeta can be big enough then it will be the one, if not then Sigma. Or possibly the Lambda could be modified but I doubt it.