I show a preview pic of the 07 Altima and not a word is mentioned..JRock brings the subject back up and now it’s all the rage? LOL....I feel so used (Kidding)
I usually cheer for the Accord in these forums, but it’s the Altima that I actually drive...
Most of the stuff I have heard Jrock has mentioned...
The car will keep its 2.5 and 3.5L engines. I REALLY hope they work on the 2.5. I currently drive a 2.5S model and compared to the Accord and previous Camry, the 2.5L is quite thrashy, loud and unrefined. Gas mileage is not very good and the V6 actually gets better hwy mileage than the 2.5 I4 per the EPA. Some thought the Altima might get Nissan's new 3.7 liter, but expect Infiniti models or the Maxima to get it first.
CVTs will be used across the board and rumor has it that the manual transmission may be gone (I hope not). According to a salesperson on Freshalloy.com and Maxima.org, the Maxima will ONLY be available with the CVT for 2007, hope this isn't the case for the Altima.
Altima's suspension will be totally revised but that the platform will be a heavy overhaul. Ghosn is a cost-cutting fanatic (he used to run the Michelin Tire plant in my native Greenville, SC)...but the new suspension/steering will help to eliminate torque steer and improve driver feedback./.two MAJOR issues for the current Altima.
Stuff we can expect to see on this Altima...as Backy stated...Bluetooth, Intelligent Key, Push-start maybe because these features will be available on the Sentra 2.0S and 2.0SL. I have also heard that all models will get the dual-zone tailpipes (a la Mazda6) but don’t know if that’s true.
Also expect the car to get more "refinement features" like rear air vents (so I am told) adjustable rear headrest (welcome to the year 2000 Nissan :P) and some other features found in the Maxima...S, SL and SE designations will continue...I haven't heard a thing about SE-R models but rumors of a coupe version this time around to compete with the Camry Solara and Accord coupe. Makes since to me.
Other rumors I have been hearing are that the Altima will FINALLY get more standard safety equipment ABS, SABs and SACs, VSC on V6 models and that the interior will be all-new and much more competitive than ever before. I drive an 05 and while the interior is a major step up from 02-04s, it’s still cheap. So expect power passenger's seats on SL and up level SE models with leather...dual-zone climate control on SL and up level SE's as well because the competition is doing this. Alloys are expect to move up to 17s on the S and SL and 18s on the SE this go round SL models will still retain the “chrome” exterior trim (per the teaser shot shown on Autoweek.com)
Honestly, Nissan can't live off it's styling or horsepower alone because competition from Honda, Toyota and even Hyundai won't permit it. The styling will be evolutionary similar t1st and 2nd generation Altima sharing the same basic greenhouse but different front and rears. You definitely know it’s an "Altima" just by looking at it Nissan ain’t gonna mess with success so I hope they’ll up the ante and all these rumors I have heard so far are true because the new Sebring/Avenger (with Altima-like styling) and Saturn Aura will all be at NYIAS this year!
Half of this stuff I have heard because I have an aunt that works for a large Nissan dealership in my area and I’ve talked with several people from Nissan (thanks to my college connections)
I plan to be in NY for this auto show and I’m going to do a very long, very detailed review of the new Altima compared to the current one.
But per Nissannews.com the new G Sedan, Altima and 07 Maxima will all be displayed April 12 starting at 12:05 PM.
Glad to see all of these changes might happen in the 07 Altima. My son has a 05 SE V6 5 speed and I love driving it sheer power. Nissan really has to address the lack of standard ABS and extra airbags, they are options but difficult to actually find expecially on a stick. Old Mike
Makes sense to me. As long as the audits confirm, looks like the Azera, despite its 4 star NCAP rating, will be rated "Good" in the IIHS offset frontal.
i think the audience is DISCERNING, and that is why there are the questions. what is the difference between a top of the line camry and an avalon? i haven't seen a new camry, but the pictures look similar to the avalons which i have seen.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
scape2 posted: The review of the 4 sedans is causing quite a stir across the internet. Edmunds has lost some face here and I sure hope they see this and this is getting back to the management/editors. The Camry is way, way over priced. And to say at the end "we believe you get what you pay for"?? what is that? Why not put a BMW in and I'm sure it will win and Yep, "you get what you pay for". Fact is this segment is very price sensitive. Price does matter. I believe for most a $5K difference is going to be a deal breaker. Looks to me Edmunds has forgotten what the average salary is in the U.S. for a working family... I sure hope the price of Camry comes down really fast. With 22K Fusions/Sonata's/G6's/ ect to buy.. this will hurt Toyota..
By discerning what I meant is that this review is directed to the top segment of each of the 4 models. There are those who will only shop the top models and price is not all that important. IMO this comparo is not directed to the bulk of the 'working family's' as scape2 wrote. It was directed to those who shop for top of the line vehicles.
This comparo was simply a comparison of the 4 premier trims in each product line and the Camry came out on top. OTOH last year's comparo of the 'standard' versions of each model favored the Sonata ( some adjustments might be made for the new Camry model ).
The discerning reader/shopper will recognize the differences in the two comparo's. Each was directed at a different audience.
what is the difference between a top of the line camry and an avalon? i haven't seen a new camry, but the pictures look similar to the avalons which i have seen.
A Camry XLE V6 $31500 is much more vehicle than a base Avalon XL $28000. Same engine & performance but the Avy rides cushier and is larger.
The Camry XLE has: S/Roof Heated Leather Seats Navi + BT all the Airbags VSC/Trac 6 Disc JBL 440 watt 268 hp 3.5L V6
The XL Avalon has: 268 hp 3.5L V6 it's wider and has much more room everywhere. Full spare and huge trunk.
Question is, Can I afford it? No. With second mortgage? Yes. Can you afford $31,000 family sedan? Do you want to spend $31,000 on a family sedan? If it is truly for the family, I would buy a van or 7 seater 4x4( I bought used MDX with 47,000 miles for $25,000 for my family). If it is for myself with excuse for the family, I would look at base BMW for that price. I choose Sonata LX for myself because thats fast,good looking, and has long warranty under $20,000. Ask yourself. I like to talk for majority of people, not for 1 in the 100s.
The top '07 Camry price is at a point that all but disqualifies it as a "family sedan". For that price, you can get a beautiful, very powerful, very prestigious, excellent handling Euro sedan. It looks like Toyota has delusions of grandeur.
Today, my company announced 3.5% wage increases over last year. Depends on how much we make, it will vary. Average wage increase is about 55 cents more an hour which will be about $60 more a month after tax. Stop by a gas station to fill Sonata up on my way back home. $2.60 for 87 which was about 20% more price than couple weeks ago, Twice more than 3 years ago. We will spend that extra $60 just for fill gas up. How about all other stuff that also cost more as gas price goes up? Mid income family's income just can't catch up with real life cost of living. If someone can afford $31,000 mid size sedan, that person is in a wrong forum.
Some families, a small but significant number, do make a lot of money such that $28000 - $35000 is not an abnormal price to pay for one, two or even three vehicles.
The bulk of the market certainly is comprised of families that have two or three less expensive vehicles.
Probably the 4 cylinder auto will be the future...V-6s may go the way of the dinosaur family sedan V-8s...who knows? V-8s are only manufactured because they are used for pickup trucks and SUVs that haul or tow heavy loads...ask Europe how they cope without those V-8s...tiny autos with small 4 cylinder engines.
Of course they are here. There is no income limits to midsized sedans. Look at Edmunds there are Lexus, BMW, Acura all in the midsized category.
There are midsized autos in the teens.. Sonata's, CE Camry's, Accords, Altima's in the low mid $20's.. Sonata's, LE Camry's, LX Accords, Fusions in the high $20's.. XLE Camry's, EX Accords, Maximas, Avalons, Azera's, Five Hundreds, 300's in the low mid $30's.. XLE Camry's, Maximas, HAH's, 3-Series, TL's, Passats
All midsized sedans. Income has nothing to do with it.
This comparo was not directed to the $20K buyer. It was directed to the $30K buyer nothing more
Lexus, BMW, Acura fall into Lexury sedan catagory. However, sorry, your right, you can buy whatever you want. I don't want to argue with you anymore, when we not going anywhere with this. This is a nice Firday night, I rather drink beers with money that I saved by buying $19,500 sedan which I enjoy everyday. I will open my mind more, or at least I will try. Have a good night.
I don't know about your circle of friends, but in the circles in which I run, a $30k sedan is status quo. Many would buy a base BMW 3 or C-class MB, or somethine used. I chose, instead of a TL to purchase a Camry SE V6 with all of the goodies.
As for your theory about car prices and the average family....My wife is a stay at home mom, and we are an average earning family for my region (maybe slightly above the average). She drives an '05 Sienna XLE LTD and my 2002 Volvo S80 is being replaced by a 2007 Camry SE V6. No 2nd mortgages or car loans to speak of. My only complaint is that I can not lease (which is the smart thing based upon my constant desire for new cars) because I drive 40+ miles door to door, home to my office.
I personally would not spend over $30k for a Camry. After all, you can get a TL or an Infiniti G35 in my area for the same price of even in the upper 20ks (on the Infiniti). You will get a better warranty and fit and finish will be better. If you want to stay with Toyota, then the Avalon may be the way to go. In my area, you can bet an XL for about $24+K, a Touring for about $28k, and an XLS for about $30k-34K. Even a V-6 Accord EX can be had for $24k to $25k. Bottom line there are choices and the priciing is not out of line. I remember people spending in excess of $25k in the late 1980s on the Acura Legend. So prices when adjusted for inflation, are not out of line and people are generally better off than they were just four or five years ago.
For the bargain basement folks, Fusions and Sonatas can be had in the low 14ks to 15ks. The Fusion looks nice, but its underpowered with the 4 and fit and finish and depreciaion (as is the case with the Sonata) would be concerns. The Sonata, however, is probably the most improved vehicle in its segment.
If one wants the Camry just wait a bit. The hype and the price will go down as soon as supply and demand come into balance. The mid-size market is just too competitive with the new Accord and Altima coming. The manufacturers can not sustain high prices in this segment.
Well, it didn't take long for the IIHS to test the new '07 Camry! The frontal offset test results are in, and it received a "Good" rating across the board. Here's the link:
tinatina wrote: "The Fusion looks nice, but its underpowered with the 4 and fit and finish and depreciaion (as is the case with the Sonata) would be concerns. The Sonata, however, is probably the most improved vehicle in its segment."
The depreciation is certainly still a valid complaint against the Sonata, but not the fit and finish. Compare a Sonata side by side against any of its competition, and I think you will be most pleasantly surprised as to its fit and finish.
Interior fit and finish is not as good as the Cam/Cord. I sat in the GL at the Auto Show months ago, and it looked cheap. The Honda Accord LX has the best interior when comparing the GL/LX Sonota, and CE/LE Camry. As far as reliability only time will tell. Its definetly the most improved vehicle in the segment though in all critical areas -styling, value, warranty, etc.
I am not too enthusiastic about the new Camry, especially the CE-4/LE-4. This was the only trims I considered. I think they could have had better hp and fuel economy. With the redesign it has 11 less horsepower than a CA-PZEV Accord. The styling also does not do it for me. Kudos goes to Toyota on the V-6 and the 6 speed though. I just hope that it works out though with the high price of gas (pusing $2.80 in my area). But hey, they are are the car experts.
Tinatina: You and others continue to compare new and used. You can not buy a new TL or G35 for under $30k (even base models w/o NAV). My Camry however is just over $28k before TTL. The TL would have been $32 and change which is a discount off of the $35k MSRP. The Avalon is a different car (much larger and floaty suspension) so it can't really be compared. The 2007 Camry SE V6 puts itself into more of a sport sedan category with it's performance, and the Avalon is a family/touring sedan.
Actually, the IIHS did not test the 2007 Camry--Toyota did. There is a new program whereby an automaker can run the IIHS frontal crash test themselves and the IIHS will validate the results. It should speed up getting the test results to the public, as we have seen with the Camry.
Hyundai unleashed its ad and Web blitz for the The Hyundai Challenge today. It's their frontal assault on Honda and Toyota in particular. They run side-by-side comparison stats vs. the likes of Accord and Camry and encourage buyers to drive a Hyundai, like the Sonata or Azera. And to entice them to buy, Hyundai has continued aggressive rebates on the Sonata. The incentives for April have not yet been posted on hyundaiusa.com, but Hyundai ads in my local paper tout "rebates up to $3500" on the Sonata, which would be $500 more than last month (although no change really in my area because the Auto Show discount expired).
So Hyundai is doing more in-your-face marketing, which I think they need to do to get more people into showrooms. The one thing they are not doing is offering a financial incentive for people to test drive a Hyundai. For example, they could offer $100 to anyone who test drives a Sonata and later buys a competitive make. They could also offer competitive rebates, e.g. $1000 to owners of cars like the Camcord, to complement the owner loyalty rebate. Kia does this quite a bit; it's interesting Hyundai does not.
Meanwhile I see the incentives continue hot and heavy for Ford, e.g. a Fusion listing close to $20k offered for just over $15k. Great deals on Fulans and Sonatas right now.
$90K as the median ? What locale is this ? Sure must be nice, I wonder what the national average is ? My area must be a depressed one. I don't think we would hit $50K in the NW FLA area. Oh well.....
Well, at a $90K+ median family income in your locale, it's quite obvious to see why your neighbors consider a $30K+ vehicle completely normal.
You either live in a cacoon of suburbanite USA or are out of touch with the reality of the average american worker. Like you, I have been fortunate enough to attain a lifestyle which puts me above the average family income but my daily work exposes me to the reality that most americans face today.
I purchased a Sonata LX because I appreciate the value it offers and am not concerned with what my pretentious neigbors think. They have the $30k+ vehicles, which I think is mostly for show. I, on the other hand, purchased my car for less than $20K, have funded all three of my childrens college costs and my retirement, at 37 years old. It's funny to hear the neighbors complain about how they don't know how they're going to make ends meet yet they insist on driving expensive cars just to "Keep up with the Jones".
I applaud "your" success in life but your comment has rubbed me the wrong way. I can only assume that given your locale's median income, you are educated and intelligent. As such, you should know that your income level and those around you, while the norm in your area, are not reflective of the average.
Also, I think the site below is the site you used for your info. I checked for my locale and the median family income for my area is a little under $49,000! Can my wife and I move in with you?
We're going down the wrong road here. We're talking about the cars and, really, people's incomes and neighborhoods have nothing to do with the subject.
Income by state is a little bit misleading. The cost of living in the lower income states are usually very low as well. In my state, the average income (50K) allows you to live very comfortably. You can afford a 2500 square foot home, 1 car note, and a modest vacation every year. I suspect it's just about the same everywhere. The good news for the higher income areas is that car prices are universal.
Obviously, you did not read my post because I did not make any comparison between what you bought (did not even read your previous posts). I also never said that you could buy a TL for under $30K. I just said that given the choice between a Camry @ over $31k or a TL, I would chose the TL, or some other premium make (Lexus, Acura, Infiniti). There would not be much price difference - you even say about $1,000. As far as a G35, yes its doable to buy one below $30k, and my post clearly states that you can get it for $27,000 to $28,000. They have ads here all the time going for the upper $20ks.
Bottom line -I would not buy a Camry for over $31k, there are other choices, incuding the Avalon and premium makes.
That is where you and I differ. I would prefer a quality make with all of the options I want in it for $30k over a 'luxo' brand with less in it or costing several thousand more.
As for the locale, I used county, not state. Fairfax County, VA. I am aware that for most of the 90's we were the 'richest' county in the USA based on median family income. I am with the earlier poster. I chose the more practical 'pimped' out Camry over the TL or 3 series with similar options to put money into my children's 529 plans. I am 31, by the way...if it matters in your view of my vehicle choice.
Frankly, who cares which county you reside in and what your age is. In addition, who cares really whether you chose a pimped out Camry or an un pimped out Camy. My original post made no reference to you, your age, your lifestyle, your income, the county you reside at, your choice of vehicle, etc.
As the Host said get off of the subject about richest/poorest counties because its meaningless.
I personally would not spend over $30k for a Camry. After all, you can get a TL or an Infiniti G35 in my area for the same price of even in the upper 20ks (on the Infiniti). You will get a better warranty and fit and finish will be better. If you want to stay with Toyota, then the Avalon may be the way to go.
This is what I was responding to. You say you would not spend over $30k for a Camry b/c you can get a TL or G35 for the same price or upper $20k range. I was simply calling you on your erroneous price (if it relates to new vehicles) and to clarify why I bought a Camry with an MSRP over $30k. The 'pimped out' comment was in regards to your suggestion to get an Avalon instead of the Camry, plus it backs up my assertion of value versus brand name pretention.
The other stuff was not directed at you, and was responding to direct questions from others.
Ok, thanks for your clarification because your posts were a tad confusing - maybe in the future you should direct the comments to the correct poster? My original post was not even directed to you-it was directed to another poster here indicating that the price of a Camry was over $31k. In short, I did not even know that you purchased a Camry until your follow-up posts.
Yet again, you keep saying that I said you can get both vehicles in the upper $20k range. You can not get both vehicles, but you could get one of them for lower than $30k - the G35 and one for about a grand more than the $31k of the Camry cited by the other poster. You may want to check out the other price threads and local newspaper ads. In fact, posters claim to have gotten Tls in the 31k range. So, my original post is not inaccurate.
As far as warranty and fit and finish, well the warranty difference between a Lexus, Infiniti, and other premium make is apparent. Fit and finish is a big unknown - but the Avalon got a white dot in fit and finish and overall reliability for Toyota, as did the 2002 Camry (first year of redesign). These may give an indication as to how the 2007 may rate, or they may not.
We're going to stick to the cars and further posts about income and class and whatever else along that line are going to be removed. It does not matter if your intent is to reply to someone else. The subject is closed and replies in that vein are not appropriate.
I was on my way to the Acura dealer when I spotted the new Camry. After dirving it, I changed my mind. I could get a TL w/Nav for $32,900 plus TTL. Without Nav is probably right around $31k. The biggest problem with the G35 (IMHO) is the placement of the power seat controls and how they affect seat comfort. I was immediately turned off of that car.
No apologies needed, and sorry, if I was a bit more direct in my second to last or the last post. The most important thing is that you got what you wanted. I was looking for a 4 banger 2007 Camry or 2006 Accord LX 4 to replace my 2004 Accord LX 4. I have not yet tested the new Camry, although I do like the re design. I am not loyal to one brand over the other.
The main purpose of my original post is that we, as customers, should be happy that there are so many choices out there today compared to ten years ago when only the Cam/Cord dominated. This has kept overall prices down when adjusting for inflation in the mid-size car segment.
Again, best of luck with your Camry, and update us in the appropriate threads once you get it (if you have not already gotten it).
Went back to recent comparo and look at test numbers of Camry vs Sonata. Sonata was way cheaper, less fast by .9 sec 0-60, brakes shorter, quieter, faster salmon speed, and twice longer warranty. So, by numbers, Camry could not win over Sonata. However, new ext & interior of Camry was the main reason of Camry got 1st place. The problem is, most selling LE version of Camry which will be about price of top Sonata won't have that nice yellow wood trim, no Nav, no Bose, no traction with ECS, and even more soft suspension, and slow like turtle compare to LX Sonata. Many woman will still choose Camry LE over LX Sonata, but hard to imagine a Man test drive both cars and still take LE over LX. Time will tell soon.
"new ext & interior of Camry was the main reason of Camry got 1st place"
I have both 2002 ES300 and 2006 Sonata LX. If the power/tran and suspension of ES300 are replaced with that of 2006 Sonata LX, 2002 ES300 will be a perfect car. I am interested in learning the power/tran performance of 2007 Camry.
just click INSIDE LINE on the top of this page. You will see the new comparison test video which marked Camry's new engine as very good, 6.5 sec 0 to 60. Even though C&D got both Accord and Sonata 6.6 sec on last test. That makes New Camry at 5.5 sec if C&D do the test? Its hard to believe when Camry uses same engine Avalon has.
Sexism serves no purpose here. The majority of midsize buyers are families. The V6 LE will still be faster than the V6 LX.. The 4c LE will still be about the same as the 4c LX, so what does that prove?
Again you have to take this into account... this comparo was only directed to top-shelf buyers.. it was not directed to economy buyers or even low $20K buyers.
What it showed is that the top model of the Camry line was better than ( close ) to the top model Accord which was better than the top model Sonata and the top model Fusion was 4th. The top model Sonata has somethings to do before it can be the equal of the Camry.
According to the summary on the Sonata: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum, and that was that the 2006 Sonata, while being a completely competent, even exceptional vehicle in its own right, is about one model-generation behind the competition. Like fixing the currency of one country to that of another, Hyundai has fixed its sights on the appropriate Japanese models, completely ignoring (and yet surpassing) those from the States. The Sonata has benchmarked the right vehicles, just the wrong generations of those vehicles. The current, seventh-generation Accord was all-new in model-year 2003, about the time this Sonata was gestating and being benchmarked against it — and the fifth-gen '02-'06 Camry.( emphasis added ).
It has already been shown in last year's comparo that the middle level Sonata is much more competitive on features and certainly price. Although why Hyundai continues to shortsell itself apparently with such a capable vehicle is still a mystery.
According to the summary on the Sonata: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum, and that was that the 2006 Sonata, while being a completely competent, even exceptional vehicle in its own right, is about one model-generation behind the competition. Like fixing the currency of one country to that of another, Hyundai has fixed its sights on the appropriate Japanese models, completely ignoring (and yet surpassing) those from the States. The Sonata has benchmarked the right vehicles, just the wrong generations of those vehicles. The current, seventh-generation Accord was all-new in model-year 2003, about the time this Sonata was gestating and being benchmarked against it — and the fifth-gen '02-'06 Camry.( emphasis added ).
How can you believe a matter of opinion like this? it has no vadility . Hyundai has even admitted they benchmarked the audi a6(not 2006 gen but one before, and lexus es 330(not the new one again) . Can't we say then even though those cars are older models, they would have no problem duking it out even with a 2007 camry? Of course the harder part to compare about it all is that the 06 sonata is not a audi a6 nor lexus es330 but the point is they never cared of the camry nor accord to set their sights to model their cars and set their benchmark higher to try to keep in pace of even the likes of 07 camry and 08 accord.(they have done a great job too, very quiet, solid built, refined luxury feel)
Hyundai has done a crazy job(if you think about it, how many car companies can nail a brand new car from bottom to the top almost in their first try??)
Though the truth is that the 2007 camry and 2008 accord will be better(of course cuz of newer technologies and gadgets, efficient engines) they prob won't be THAT much better(the camrys exterior is still ugly in many ways, some materials low grade, brakes are a joke etc) plus they will always lack what the sonata will give you, which is quality value .
I guess I should have added the paragraph that follows the first one. Did you read the comparo?
We know from experience and insider information that Hyundai did, indeed, try to split the difference between those two in terms of the then soft-riding Camry and the more athletic Accord — and it has succeeded. In the case of the completely redesigned 2007 Camry, however, Toyota has taken a huge step ahead of everything else in this market segment with its chassis, powertrain, content, features and styling( emphasis added )
Now maybe they did benchmark the specific engines from the previous generation Audi and the Lexus. But that's exactly what Edmunds said. The ES Lexus is the same as the V6 Camry. The previous generation ES was the ES300 with the same 3.0L engine that was in the last generation Camry. So what Edmunds said was exactly correct.
BTW, the ES300 would be left going backward versus this new 3.5L engine in the Camry. You are WAY off there. Sorry.
All that Hyundai has in it's favor in this top model comparo is price.... but it lacks a lot of features which are in the new XLE. It lacks enough features that some buyers wont even look at it. It's a 2002 Generation vehicle.
All that Hyundai has in it's favor in this top model comparo is price....
Did you read the review? The editors noted the Sonata had the best braking, was the quietest on the highway, and has a "luxurious" ride. The editors were "equally pleased with its highway ride and track performance." It has the largest trunk and is largest in all rear seat measurements except legroom. And it has "one of the best engines in its class." Also, two of the editors picked the Sonata as their personal choice.
All that Hyundai has in its favor is price?? Methinks you like looking at things through the eyes of your employer, Toyota.
P.S. Keep in mind that the brand-spanking-new Camry barely eaked out a victory, by a fraction of a point, over a car that debuted in 2002--the Accord. Not so great an accomplishment for Toyota as some might have us believe.
You should note that they wrote this too. With the anticipation of parents watching their child win a spelling bee with the final letter, we watched the Camry's point total edge out the Accord's by a 0.64 margin. Despite what this might indicate, there really was no dispute regarding which of these four cars should win the comparison.
But I think it is quite impressive that the oldest sedan can still be near the top.
Edmunds thinks that to :P "That's a darned impressive feat and speaks to how well designed and engineered the 3-year-old car was when it was introduced, and remains so to this day."
kdhspyder wrote: "It's a 2002 Generation vehicle."
Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion as Kdhspyer's, and so I will give mine also. I would rather have a 2002 Generation vehicle, than a "realy urgly" 2007 Camry. I think Toyota must have hired the Pontiac Aztec designer to design the front and rear ends of the new generation Camry. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but one must be a parent to love the looks of the new Camry! No matter how dynamically superior this car is, there will be long-standing Camry buyers pass on this one.
Also, two of the editors picked the Sonata as their personal choice.
My reading of it was that they were saying that the price was too low to pass up. It wasn't really the equal but at that price it's a great buy.
And I agree. It's not in any way a 'bad' vehicle it's just lacking in some top of the line features, it's a little rough around the edges and a generation behind.
The Accord is excellent and deserving. It's next Gen will likely raise the bar again. We all benefit.
My two Elantras are at least a generation behind almost every other compact car on the market. The design is six years old. Yet I enjoy driving those cars very much. I just drove my 5-1/2 year old Elantra 800 miles cross-country. It was a pleasure. Are they as good in every way as the best, newest small cars out there? Of course not. Does that mean I should run out and spend thousands of dollars just to get "the latest and greatest"? Something that is the newest generation? Sure, if I want to be able to tell people that I have the latest and greatest. Or if I work for an automotive mag (or web site) and all I need to do is tell other people how to spend their money, and not shell out the bucks myself.
The fact that the new Camry is a generation ahead of all other midsized cars is immaterial to me. The fact that the next Accord will be a generation ahead of all midsized cars is immaterial to me. What matters to me is, how much do I need to pay to buy a car that meets my needs. If Car A meets my needs and costs $15k and Car B meets my needs and costs $20k, guess which one I will buy? And if Car A lacks some features that mean nothing to me, who cares? Or if a small cup will rattle around a little in Car A's cupholder, is that worth $5000 to me? No. Or if, gee, it would be really nice if the dash vents were a few inches higher (because I somehow forgot how to direct them away from my hands), is that worth $5000 to me? Don't think so.
All of this Hyyundai versus Toyota stuff is pretty interesting. It just goes to show that Hyundai has really advanced in the marketplace considering where they were a decade, or even five years ago. Yet, suspension and interior of the Hyundai are clearly inferior to the Cam/Cord. This was noted when the new Sonata came out. I do beleive that the Sonata is the most improved vehicle in the very competitive mid-size car segment.
As far as my dream mid size car- a hybrid of the Cam/cord, and call it Camcordia. I would take the new 2007 Camry(maybe minus the front grill), 4 Cylinder Camry, but I would take the seats, full size spare tire, gauges, and engine and very smoot automatic tranny from my 2004 Accord. (just a bit attempt at humor on this thread).
The front suspension may be inferior to the Camcord's (although I much prefer the Sonata's ride to the feel-every-little-bump ride of the Accord). But the Sonata has an "active" rear suspension that is far more advanced than what Camcords offer. I just wonder when Hyundai will bring that suspension over here.
As for interior, the XLE-level interior of the new Camry is quite nice. But the CE/LE's interior (i.e. what most people buy) is borrrr-ing; I much prefer the Sonata GLS interior. The up-level Accord interior is also quite nice, but again the LX level is nothing special (slick gauges though) and positively tomb-like in black with black cloth (tacky cloth at that). Black with leather isn't so bad. Call me weird, but I prefer the more airy cabin of the Sonata. I think the tan interior with leather is especially tasteful.
The more I see of the Camry, the more I appreciate the clean, Audi-esque lines of the Sonata. But I've always liked an expansive greenhouse compared to the "Mafia staff car" look of cars like the Chrysler 300, and now the Camry.
Comments
I usually cheer for the Accord in these forums, but it’s the Altima that I actually drive...
Most of the stuff I have heard Jrock has mentioned...
The car will keep its 2.5 and 3.5L engines. I REALLY hope they work on the 2.5. I currently drive a 2.5S model and compared to the Accord and previous Camry, the 2.5L is quite thrashy, loud and unrefined. Gas mileage is not very good and the V6 actually gets better hwy mileage than the 2.5 I4 per the EPA. Some thought the Altima might get Nissan's new 3.7 liter, but expect Infiniti models or the Maxima to get it first.
CVTs will be used across the board and rumor has it that the manual transmission may be gone (I hope not). According to a salesperson on Freshalloy.com and Maxima.org, the Maxima will ONLY be available with the CVT for 2007, hope this isn't the case for the Altima.
Altima's suspension will be totally revised but that the platform will be a heavy overhaul. Ghosn is a cost-cutting fanatic (he used to run the Michelin Tire plant in my native Greenville, SC)...but the new suspension/steering will help to eliminate torque steer and improve driver feedback./.two MAJOR issues for the current Altima.
Stuff we can expect to see on this Altima...as Backy stated...Bluetooth, Intelligent Key, Push-start maybe because these features will be available on the Sentra 2.0S and 2.0SL. I have also heard that all models will get the dual-zone tailpipes (a la Mazda6) but don’t know if that’s true.
Also expect the car to get more "refinement features" like rear air vents (so I am told) adjustable rear headrest (welcome to the year 2000 Nissan :P) and some other features found in the Maxima...S, SL and SE designations will continue...I haven't heard a thing about SE-R models but rumors of a coupe version this time around to compete with the Camry Solara and Accord coupe. Makes since to me.
Other rumors I have been hearing are that the Altima will FINALLY get more standard safety equipment ABS, SABs and SACs, VSC on V6 models and that the interior will be all-new and much more competitive than ever before. I drive an 05 and while the interior is a major step up from 02-04s, it’s still cheap. So expect power passenger's seats on SL and up level SE models with leather...dual-zone climate control on SL and up level SE's as well because the competition is doing this. Alloys are expect to move up to 17s on the S and SL and 18s on the SE this go round SL models will still retain the “chrome” exterior trim (per the teaser shot shown on Autoweek.com)
Honestly, Nissan can't live off it's styling or horsepower alone because competition from Honda, Toyota and even Hyundai won't permit it. The styling will be evolutionary similar t1st and 2nd generation Altima sharing the same basic greenhouse but different front and rears. You definitely know it’s an "Altima" just by looking at it Nissan ain’t gonna mess with success so I hope they’ll up the ante and all these rumors I have heard so far are true because the new Sebring/Avenger (with Altima-like styling) and Saturn Aura will all be at NYIAS this year!
Half of this stuff I have heard because I have an aunt that works for a large Nissan dealership in my area and I’ve talked with several people from Nissan (thanks to my college connections)
I plan to be in NY for this auto show and I’m going to do a very long, very detailed review of the new Altima compared to the current one.
But per Nissannews.com the new G Sedan, Altima and 07 Maxima will all be displayed April 12 starting at 12:05 PM.
The 2009 Sonata will be only a refresh of the current design, not a new design. A new Sonata wouldn't be coming until the 2011 or 2012 MY.
Makes sense to me. As long as the audits confirm, looks like the Azera, despite its 4 star NCAP rating, will be rated "Good" in the IIHS offset frontal.
~alpha
what is the difference between a top of the line camry and an avalon? i haven't seen a new camry, but the pictures look similar to the avalons which i have seen.
The review of the 4 sedans is causing quite a stir across the internet. Edmunds has lost some face here and I sure hope they see this and this is getting back to the management/editors. The Camry is way, way over priced. And to say at the end "we believe you get what you pay for"?? what is that? Why not put a BMW in and I'm sure it will win and Yep, "you get what you pay for". Fact is this segment is very price sensitive. Price does matter. I believe for most a $5K difference is going to be a deal breaker. Looks to me Edmunds has forgotten what the average salary is in the U.S. for a working family... I sure hope the price of Camry comes down really fast. With 22K Fusions/Sonata's/G6's/ ect to buy.. this will hurt Toyota..
By discerning what I meant is that this review is directed to the top segment of each of the 4 models. There are those who will only shop the top models and price is not all that important. IMO this comparo is not directed to the bulk of the 'working family's' as scape2 wrote. It was directed to those who shop for top of the line vehicles.
This comparo was simply a comparison of the 4 premier trims in each product line and the Camry came out on top. OTOH last year's comparo of the 'standard' versions of each model favored the Sonata ( some adjustments might be made for the new Camry model ).
The discerning reader/shopper will recognize the differences in the two comparo's. Each was directed at a different audience.
A Camry XLE V6 $31500 is much more vehicle than a base Avalon XL $28000. Same engine & performance but the Avy rides cushier and is larger.
The Camry XLE has:
S/Roof
Heated Leather Seats
Navi + BT
all the Airbags
VSC/Trac
6 Disc JBL 440 watt
268 hp 3.5L V6
The XL Avalon has:
268 hp 3.5L V6
it's wider and has much more room everywhere.
Full spare and huge trunk.
The Limited Avy is ~ $38000
Can you afford $31,000 family sedan? Do you want to spend $31,000 on a family sedan? If it is truly for the family, I would buy a van or 7 seater 4x4( I bought used MDX with 47,000 miles for $25,000 for my family). If it is for myself with excuse for the family, I would look at base BMW for that price. I choose Sonata LX for myself because thats fast,good looking, and has long warranty under $20,000. Ask yourself. I like to talk for majority of people, not for 1 in the 100s.
The bulk of the market certainly is comprised of families that have two or three less expensive vehicles.
There are midsized autos
in the teens.. Sonata's, CE Camry's, Accords, Altima's
in the low mid $20's.. Sonata's, LE Camry's, LX Accords, Fusions
in the high $20's.. XLE Camry's, EX Accords, Maximas, Avalons, Azera's, Five Hundreds, 300's
in the low mid $30's.. XLE Camry's, Maximas, HAH's, 3-Series, TL's, Passats
All midsized sedans. Income has nothing to do with it.
This comparo was not directed to the $20K buyer. It was directed to the $30K buyer nothing more
However, sorry, your right, you can buy whatever you want.
I don't want to argue with you anymore, when we not going anywhere with this. This is a nice Firday night, I rather drink beers with money that I saved by buying $19,500 sedan which I enjoy everyday. I will open my mind more, or at least I will try. Have a good night.
As for your theory about car prices and the average family....My wife is a stay at home mom, and we are an average earning family for my region (maybe slightly above the average). She drives an '05 Sienna XLE LTD and my 2002 Volvo S80 is being replaced by a 2007 Camry SE V6. No 2nd mortgages or car loans to speak of. My only complaint is that I can not lease (which is the smart thing based upon my constant desire for new cars) because I drive 40+ miles door to door, home to my office.
For the bargain basement folks, Fusions and Sonatas can be had in the low 14ks to 15ks. The Fusion looks nice, but its underpowered with the 4 and fit and finish and depreciaion (as is the case with the Sonata) would be concerns. The Sonata, however, is probably the most improved vehicle in its segment.
If one wants the Camry just wait a bit. The hype and the price will go down as soon as supply and demand come into balance. The mid-size market is just too competitive with the new Accord and Altima coming. The manufacturers can not sustain high prices in this segment.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=653
It hasn't been tested for side impact as yet - most likely in progress.
The depreciation is certainly still a valid complaint against the Sonata, but not the fit and finish. Compare a Sonata side by side against any of its competition, and I think you will be most pleasantly surprised as to its fit and finish.
I am not too enthusiastic about the new Camry, especially the CE-4/LE-4. This was the only trims I considered. I think they could have had better hp and fuel economy. With the redesign it has 11 less horsepower than a CA-PZEV Accord. The styling also does not do it for me. Kudos goes to Toyota on the V-6 and the 6 speed though. I just hope that it works out though with the high price of gas (pusing $2.80 in my area). But hey, they are are the car experts.
So Hyundai is doing more in-your-face marketing, which I think they need to do to get more people into showrooms. The one thing they are not doing is offering a financial incentive for people to test drive a Hyundai. For example, they could offer $100 to anyone who test drives a Sonata and later buys a competitive make. They could also offer competitive rebates, e.g. $1000 to owners of cars like the Camcord, to complement the owner loyalty rebate. Kia does this quite a bit; it's interesting Hyundai does not.
Meanwhile I see the incentives continue hot and heavy for Ford, e.g. a Fusion listing close to $20k offered for just over $15k. Great deals on Fulans and Sonatas right now.
You either live in a cacoon of suburbanite USA or are out of touch with the reality of the average american worker. Like you, I have been fortunate enough to attain a lifestyle which puts me above the average family income but my daily work exposes me to the reality that most americans face today.
I purchased a Sonata LX because I appreciate the value it offers and am not concerned with what my pretentious neigbors think. They have the $30k+ vehicles, which I think is mostly for show. I, on the other hand, purchased my car for less than $20K, have funded all three of my childrens college costs and my retirement, at 37 years old. It's funny to hear the neighbors complain about how they don't know how they're going to make ends meet yet they insist on driving expensive cars just to "Keep up with the Jones".
I applaud "your" success in life but your comment has rubbed me the wrong way. I can only assume that given your locale's median income, you are educated and intelligent. As such, you should know that your income level and those around you, while the norm in your area, are not reflective of the average.
Then I would have to say your area is just a little above average:
Median Income for 4-Person Families, by State
Also, I think the site below is the site you used for your info. I checked for my locale and the median family income for my area is a little under $49,000!
US Census Bureau
So let's get back to the cars.
Cars, please.
Bottom line -I would not buy a Camry for over $31k, there are other choices, incuding the Avalon and premium makes.
Best of luck though.
As for the locale, I used county, not state. Fairfax County, VA. I am aware that for most of the 90's we were the 'richest' county in the USA based on median family income. I am with the earlier poster. I chose the more practical 'pimped' out Camry over the TL or 3 series with similar options to put money into my children's 529 plans. I am 31, by the way...if it matters in your view of my vehicle choice.
As the Host said get off of the subject about richest/poorest counties because its meaningless.
This is what I was responding to. You say you would not spend over $30k for a Camry b/c you can get a TL or G35 for the same price or upper $20k range. I was simply calling you on your erroneous price (if it relates to new vehicles) and to clarify why I bought a Camry with an MSRP over $30k. The 'pimped out' comment was in regards to your suggestion to get an Avalon instead of the Camry, plus it backs up my assertion of value versus brand name pretention.
The other stuff was not directed at you, and was responding to direct questions from others.
Yet again, you keep saying that I said you can get both vehicles in the upper $20k range. You can not get both vehicles, but you could get one of them for lower than $30k - the G35 and one for about a grand more than the $31k of the Camry cited by the other poster. You may want to check out the other price threads and local newspaper ads. In fact, posters claim to have gotten Tls in the 31k range. So, my original post is not inaccurate.
As far as warranty and fit and finish, well the warranty difference between a Lexus, Infiniti, and other premium make is apparent. Fit and finish is a big unknown - but the Avalon got a white dot in fit and finish and overall reliability for Toyota, as did the 2002 Camry (first year of redesign). These may give an indication as to how the 2007 may rate, or they may not.
Cars, please.
I was on my way to the Acura dealer when I spotted the new Camry. After dirving it, I changed my mind. I could get a TL w/Nav for $32,900 plus TTL. Without Nav is probably right around $31k. The biggest problem with the G35 (IMHO) is the placement of the power seat controls and how they affect seat comfort. I was immediately turned off of that car.
The main purpose of my original post is that we, as customers, should be happy that there are so many choices out there today compared to ten years ago when only the Cam/Cord dominated. This has kept overall prices down when adjusting for inflation in the mid-size car segment.
Again, best of luck with your Camry, and update us in the appropriate threads once you get it (if you have not already gotten it).
Many woman will still choose Camry LE over LX Sonata, but hard to imagine a Man test drive both cars and still take LE over LX. Time will tell soon.
I have both 2002 ES300 and 2006 Sonata LX. If the power/tran and suspension of ES300 are replaced with that of 2006 Sonata LX, 2002 ES300 will be a perfect car. I am interested in learning the power/tran performance of 2007 Camry.
Again you have to take this into account... this comparo was only directed to top-shelf buyers.. it was not directed to economy buyers or even low $20K buyers.
What it showed is that the top model of the Camry line was better than ( close ) to the top model Accord which was better than the top model Sonata and the top model Fusion was 4th. The top model Sonata has somethings to do before it can be the equal of the Camry.
According to the summary on the Sonata:
A funny thing happened on the way to the forum, and that was that the 2006 Sonata, while being a completely competent, even exceptional vehicle in its own right, is about one model-generation behind the competition. Like fixing the currency of one country to that of another, Hyundai has fixed its sights on the appropriate Japanese models, completely ignoring (and yet surpassing) those from the States. The Sonata has benchmarked the right vehicles, just the wrong generations of those vehicles. The current, seventh-generation Accord was all-new in model-year 2003, about the time this Sonata was gestating and being benchmarked against it — and the fifth-gen '02-'06 Camry.( emphasis added ).
It has already been shown in last year's comparo that the middle level Sonata is much more competitive on features and certainly price. Although why Hyundai continues to shortsell itself apparently with such a capable vehicle is still a mystery.
A funny thing happened on the way to the forum, and that was that the 2006 Sonata, while being a completely competent, even exceptional vehicle in its own right, is about one model-generation behind the competition. Like fixing the currency of one country to that of another, Hyundai has fixed its sights on the appropriate Japanese models, completely ignoring (and yet surpassing) those from the States. The Sonata has benchmarked the right vehicles, just the wrong generations of those vehicles. The current, seventh-generation Accord was all-new in model-year 2003, about the time this Sonata was gestating and being benchmarked against it — and the fifth-gen '02-'06 Camry.( emphasis added ).
How can you believe a matter of opinion like this? it has no vadility . Hyundai has even admitted they benchmarked the audi a6(not 2006 gen but one before, and lexus es 330(not the new one again) . Can't we say then even though those cars are older models, they would have no problem duking it out even with a 2007 camry? Of course the harder part to compare about it all is that the 06 sonata is not a audi a6 nor lexus es330 but the point is they never cared of the camry nor accord to set their sights to model their cars and set their benchmark higher to try to keep in pace of even the likes of 07 camry and 08 accord.(they have done a great job too, very quiet, solid built, refined luxury feel)
Hyundai has done a crazy job(if you think about it, how many car companies can nail a brand new car from bottom to the top almost in their first try??)
Though the truth is that the 2007 camry and 2008 accord will be better(of course cuz of newer technologies and gadgets, efficient engines) they prob won't be THAT much better(the camrys exterior is still ugly in many ways, some materials low grade, brakes are a joke etc) plus they will always lack what the sonata will give you, which is quality value .
We know from experience and insider information that Hyundai did, indeed, try to split the difference between those two in terms of the then soft-riding Camry and the more athletic Accord — and it has succeeded. In the case of the completely redesigned 2007 Camry, however, Toyota has taken a huge step ahead of everything else in this market segment with its chassis, powertrain, content, features and styling( emphasis added )
Now maybe they did benchmark the specific engines from the previous generation Audi and the Lexus. But that's exactly what Edmunds said. The ES Lexus is the same as the V6 Camry. The previous generation ES was the ES300 with the same 3.0L engine that was in the last generation Camry. So what Edmunds said was exactly correct.
BTW, the ES300 would be left going backward versus this new 3.5L engine in the Camry. You are WAY off there. Sorry.
All that Hyundai has in it's favor in this top model comparo is price.... but it lacks a lot of features which are in the new XLE. It lacks enough features that some buyers wont even look at it. It's a 2002 Generation vehicle.
Did you read the review? The editors noted the Sonata had the best braking, was the quietest on the highway, and has a "luxurious" ride. The editors were "equally pleased with its highway ride and track performance." It has the largest trunk and is largest in all rear seat measurements except legroom. And it has "one of the best engines in its class." Also, two of the editors picked the Sonata as their personal choice.
All that Hyundai has in its favor is price?? Methinks you like looking at things through the eyes of your employer, Toyota.
P.S. Keep in mind that the brand-spanking-new Camry barely eaked out a victory, by a fraction of a point, over a car that debuted in 2002--the Accord. Not so great an accomplishment for Toyota as some might have us believe.
With the anticipation of parents watching their child win a spelling bee with the final letter, we watched the Camry's point total edge out the Accord's by a 0.64 margin. Despite what this might indicate, there really was no dispute regarding which of these four cars should win the comparison.
But I think it is quite impressive that the oldest sedan can still be near the top.
Edmunds thinks that to :P
"That's a darned impressive feat and speaks to how well designed and engineered the 3-year-old car was when it was introduced, and remains so to this day."
Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion as Kdhspyer's, and so I will give mine also. I would rather have a 2002 Generation vehicle, than a "realy urgly" 2007 Camry. I think Toyota must have hired the Pontiac Aztec designer to design the front and rear ends of the new generation Camry. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but one must be a parent to love the looks of the new Camry! No matter how dynamically superior this car is, there will be long-standing Camry buyers pass on this one.
The Sonata is becoming better looking every day!
My reading of it was that they were saying that the price was too low to pass up. It wasn't really the equal but at that price it's a great buy.
And I agree. It's not in any way a 'bad' vehicle it's just lacking in some top of the line features, it's a little rough around the edges and a generation behind.
The Accord is excellent and deserving. It's next Gen will likely raise the bar again. We all benefit.
The fact that the new Camry is a generation ahead of all other midsized cars is immaterial to me. The fact that the next Accord will be a generation ahead of all midsized cars is immaterial to me. What matters to me is, how much do I need to pay to buy a car that meets my needs. If Car A meets my needs and costs $15k and Car B meets my needs and costs $20k, guess which one I will buy? And if Car A lacks some features that mean nothing to me, who cares? Or if a small cup will rattle around a little in Car A's cupholder, is that worth $5000 to me? No. Or if, gee, it would be really nice if the dash vents were a few inches higher (because I somehow forgot how to direct them away from my hands), is that worth $5000 to me? Don't think so.
As far as my dream mid size car- a hybrid of the Cam/cord, and call it Camcordia. I would take the new 2007 Camry(maybe minus the front grill), 4 Cylinder Camry, but I would take the seats, full size spare tire, gauges, and engine and very smoot automatic tranny from my 2004 Accord. (just a bit attempt at humor on this thread).
As for interior, the XLE-level interior of the new Camry is quite nice. But the CE/LE's interior (i.e. what most people buy) is borrrr-ing; I much prefer the Sonata GLS interior. The up-level Accord interior is also quite nice, but again the LX level is nothing special (slick gauges though) and positively tomb-like in black with black cloth (tacky cloth at that). Black with leather isn't so bad. Call me weird, but I prefer the more airy cabin of the Sonata. I think the tan interior with leather is especially tasteful.
The more I see of the Camry, the more I appreciate the clean, Audi-esque lines of the Sonata. But I've always liked an expansive greenhouse compared to the "Mafia staff car" look of cars like the Chrysler 300, and now the Camry.