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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Don't forget about the poor slide off driver's seat, weak fuel economy, cabin noise from the gas tank, styling from the mid 90s.....and that slanted H thing.
At least the giveaway pricing does mitigate the sullied Hyundai reputation of the past.
Can you clarify what cabin noise from the gas tank is? To the best of my knowledge, the Sonata has one of the quitest cabin around; even at full throttle. The Edmunds test ranked Sonata's cabin as the quitest in two out of the three categories (Db @ Idle & Db @ 70mph), Db at full throttle, the Sonata is only off by 0.4
Fuel Economy from Edmunds' test: Sonata 19.6; Camry 20.4; Accord 21.4; not great but also not weak by any stretch of the imagination...
Styling is very subjective, and the slanted H has a lot of meanings, which I just read from another forum. Personally, I like it better than the boxy H.
Oh, and the "slated H thing" mentioned by a previous poster when discussing the "cons" of the Sonata, I believe it's supposed to represent the company (Hyundai) and a customer shaking hands. At least it implies more than just the first letter of the name of the company. And for that matter, what the heck is Toyota's and Mazda's current logos supposed to represent?
and not that i'm bashing honda because their engines are meant to be on the efficient side, but as in more power and alot of technical aspects the new nissan engines are better. The new VQ series engines pull so smoothly and faster , the accord feels slow and trying.
Funny thing is, I see Hyundai's all over with "Boxy" H license plates on the front of them (trying to fool people). But I have yet to see a Honda with a "slanted H" symbol on it. I don't think it has ever happened. No one with a Honda, is trying to impersonate a Hyundai driver.
noise coming from the gas? what are you talking about, this is what i mean nitpicking
The slanted "h" emblem?? very illogical comment about not likeing a car
hyundai understands the art of desining cars exteriorly(european expertise)
Who's to say? Every consumer is different. I was car shopping, and plan on keeping my car a long time. The interior of the Accord feels like it will stand the test of time in both design and quality. I could say neither about the Sonata, and that WAS enough to point me away from a V6 Sonata and into an I-4 Accord for similar $ (I could've gotten either).
The first Accords were junk. I was at a pro Golf Tourney in Hartford when the Acura first came out. I forget the year (maybe about 1986) but think the month was August. There was a rain delay. We went to the vendors' tent to see the displays. The guy at the "brand new Acura" booth told us that Honda did market research and found the Americans would not pay, maybe it was $13,000, for a Honda but they might pay that amount for an up scale Japanese car. Bingo! No up scale Honda. The Acura was born.
Several years later people were still buying Acura's not realizing they had a Honda. Some were vehement that they did not have a Honda...until challenged to open the hood and saw "Honda" on the engine.
How do you know that? Hyundai is a Korean company and adheres to Korean reporting methods (whatever they are) in Korean currency. And from that you deduce they are making a good amount of profit? I don't think we'll ever know. The SK government subsidizes and supports Hyundai through a million different ways that I doubt even Hyundai knows how to eliminate intercompany transactions in their financials. They could be bleeding money, especially with the Hyundai chairman disappearing amid financial controversy. Whatever the case, pegging the Sonata at giveaway prices earns them market share for the future, which they deperately need to overcome their past 'transgressions'. It all makes sense cause they're building a car now that is acceptable.
Easy. I think the intracacies of this design have yet to be ironed out. But a great idea nonetheless (I think Cadillac had this too IIRC)
i didn't buy a honda this time. but i will always consider them (barring some major screw ups by them) when i buy a car or am asked to recommend a car by a friend or family member.
their designs are thoughtful and well executed. really the one thing that i would criticize in honda's design is sometimes their use of colors in their interior. but generally their designs are proportional, have good balance, and put controls in places that make sense.
really, it's what i like about Japenese design: simple, elegant, functional, and conveys a sense of peace and ease. this is what good architecture conveys, what a nicely designed room attemps, and what makers of fine clothes strive for. design matters. why do stores spend billions of dollars redisigning their stores? or car companies change their design every few years? i think that's why so many magazines and reviewers have placed the accord as a benchmark that it's competitors attempt to achieve. being too dismissive of what makes the accord a great car or honda a great company is in my view shortsighted. just like some of the sonataholics accuse me of being for not saying that the sonata is the only choice worthy of consideration. thing is, honda earned my respect over decades. hyundai has done well for a few years now? good for them. i hope they keep it up. and if they keep it up maybe after another decade or so i will have the same faith in hyundai as i do honda. but not until then.
On a somewhat related note, the new Alab. plant, where the new Sonata and the upcoming Santa Fe are built, is very interesting. The automation of the plant is beyond belief; the capacity calls for 300K vehicles annually, while using less than half of workers than the typical plant.
Whatever the year, they were junk at first (my point earlier) and rapidly improved. 7 or 8 years can see big changes in cars.
Most everyone will agree that they are a top notch car today.
The H looks like a Honda H on crack. Could never get used to it, but you know what i really dislike about Hyundai, besides the name? The fact that Hyundai and all South Korean companies get financial handouts from their Govmnt. None of those conglomerates would exist if not for help from their Govmnt.
What happened to 'fair' trade? I thought that was illegal. Americans go out and rush to buy these cheap Korean vehicles when their sole aim is to knock out American manufacturing prowess.
Go ahead and buy a Hyundia or a Kia. Me, it matters where my money goes. If I had such a hankering to buy foreign I would buy a Mazda (controlled by Ford), or a Suzuki (most cars are GMDAT-Korean owned by GM), or even Honda, which is bigger here than in Japan. Toyota is out, Hyundai and Kia are out, Nissan is out (less reliable than GM), all the German cars are out (less reliable than GM).
I could never bring myself to say I bought a Hyundai. Not gonna happen. OK, maybe I am a hater :P
Sounds like you're the one speculating about Hyundai's "profit". I doubt they're giving them away, but the margins on them are surely slim. I agree they are trying to buy markey share, but you need a decent car to do that. The Sonata is a decent car.
If Hyundai will sell an American a Sonata for a low price, at the expense of its own people (the SK government basically), why should we care? We're not eating our pets.
Americans have shown they have no loyalty to their own car companies, they have also shown they could care less if our manufacturing base is flushed down the toilet, all they want is a cheap car. Hyundai has it made in this country.
Car making is only a part of Hyundai business.
Every nation, CEOs, and Government have secrets that they have to hide.
Don't try to describe the whole Iceberg when you can only see the top of it.
I will buy your story when you can read a newspaper written in Korean.
One of my clients had a gold or beige Accord the first year they came out. He dumped it after 2 or 3 years because of rust problems and dissatisfaction with the 2 speed automatic. I'm thinking the first Accord was barely larger than the Civic of it's time...maybe about the size of today's Mini Cooper.
Honda/Accord came a long way in a short time. My brother had an '85 Accord and it was fine until something went wrong. Couldn't replace a headlamp bulb without getting a new headlamp assembly. Broken radio antennea required disassembling the right side of the dashboard. There was also a problem with brake pads & rotors on his '85.
Gas milage was good & it had plenty of pep. Steering was too "light."
Meanwhile, let's stop the bashing. Please.
The Accord has improved greatly in the past 20 years. So has Hyundai. How about if we focus on today's mid-sized cars?
Evidently you're not old enough to remember when Datsun (Nissan), Honda, and Toyota first started selling their products in this country - and, their impact on domestic car sales! Replace your word "Korean," with "Japanese," and turn back the clock, and you're saying exactly the same thing about the Japanese cars, including Honda. Many altruistic old timers who thought Japanese cars were junk were saying exactly the same thing as you are now.
The more things change, the more they stay the same . . .
I had an 86 Excell for a couple of days - dumped it. It was a disposable car back then. A lot of progress has been made since then, and they produce a darn good car now, if you like 'em.
It's fun and long too.
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Your right - I could care less. It's a shame. However, I don't care where the car comes from I decide to buy. I for one, feel the unions (in part) are a BIG part of the problem. Another, is the quality control of the American car makers. Hyundai came out with terrible cars a few short years ago. Now, some of them are very good.
If Ford and GM goes under (more likely Ford) then they deserve it! I think GM will get "lean and mean" and find out exactly where their market share is, and remain in business. Ford has some major problems. They still can't make a competitive car, and they do not wish to bring over their European models that are very good.
This is about more than a car or a car company. It's about America losing it's ability to do the very thing that made this country great - manufacture. Sadly, as you indicate, many Americans no longer care about that. So eventually, we'll get what we, and that includes you, deserve.
You're not a hater. I happen to agree. The dash, and particularly, the center control stack on the 06 Sonata is hideous, IMO.
I'm currently looking into midsize cars, and when I looked at the controls on the Sonata I actually laughed. It looks to me like a childs toy. The exterior styling is as good or better than many. But, that dash....uugghh. Just can't take the car seriously.
Right on! Americans will wake-up when its too late.... oh, it is too late.. ever hear of Trade deficit?? You will.. soon..
i think personally the ceo of gm is especially has no clue what he is doing. On the minus side on top of that unlike Chrysler who now luckily uses mercedez secrets for their cars, gm aquired auto divisions that they can learn nothing from really
Gm has too much american pride, that they just cannot understand having too many american auto divisions is going to hurt in terms of quality and defect reductions.
Opel is their most respected car in the world(quality is very good, some of the best styled cars) and if they want to win in the auto game, they should bring thoses cars here or make them here , forget about cars like cobalt, ion. The astra would be top 3 in compact car sales alone.
At least, I have not used extreme words like "Slit my own throat" yet.
05:00 PM CDT on Sunday, April 30, 2006
Everybody has a best cars or best trucks list these days. But the one in the May issue of Esquire magazine is more eclectic than most. Here are the best cars under $50,000 in Esquire's view, in no particular order:
Chevrolet Corvette ($44,490): "Ten pounds of awesome in a five-pound bag."
Mazda 6 ($19,670): "This is the kind of car you name and keep driving long after it's paid for."
BMW 3-Series ($30,900 to $44,900): "Some of the most joyful, nuanced driving anywhere."
Audi A3 3.2 DSG ($34,700): "Take a smallish family car and stuff it with a big ol' motor."
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution ($29,149): "You'll live The Fast and the Furious every time you turn the key."
Ford F-150 ($19,640 to $37,005): "Not many people really need a pickup, but plenty of them still want an F-150."
Infiniti G35 coupe ($33,200): "A G35 parked in your driveway raises your neighbors' property values."
Lotus Elise ($42,990): "It's a scalpel in a room full of sledgehammers."
Subaru Legacy GT ($28,795): "A ninja in a business suit."
Chrysler 300C SRT8 ($42,695): "An addictive combination of American power and German chassis finesse."
Terry Box
You have proved nothing by stating it again. Saying over and over again doesnt make it true. But what you said later is more likely the truth. Hyundai has huge resources ( including the probably the Korean govt ) so losses on the US auto business mean very little to the larger corporation.... except that it's embarrassing that such a high tech company with such an excellent product has to 'beg for business' with massive gifts to the US buyer.
Here is reality: I posted a cost comparison back a few days ago with some costs and selling prices and 'profits' which were admittedly grossly estimated but which showed how much difference in profit Toyota and Honda make on the vehicles. I made a wild guess of $8000, which is too high.
A following poster made a more detailed post showing that Toyota and Honda trail Nissan somewhat but each makes about $1500 profit on a vehicle. Here's the logic: if the two best producers in the US make only $1500 profit per vehicle but sell $6000 higher in price than Hyundai then Hyundai is losing about $4500 on every vehicle it sells.
Please no more about making a profit on Hyundai's made here in the US. The plant is still on it's learning curve; it is not up to capacity so likely it isn't covering it's fixed costs yet; it has some ways to go to be as efficient as it's three main rivals.
'half the workers of a typical plant' means of a Big 3 plant not an other transplant. The Ala plant is still a baby learning to stand up. The Georgetown, Marysville and Smyrna plants are professional athletes with 10+ yrs of experience. Please be logical.
Making huge losses is OK with a company the size of Hyundai in order to win market share. It's embarrassing but it's understandable.