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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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I agree.
>Maybe I need another test run,
I believe we rate a different vehicle based on what we have been accustomed to. Repeat tests will overcome that 'lack of familiarity' in placements, seat shapes, different textures, etc., and lets us actually focus on the car. Dealers in this area always have let us test drive alone in the car. Often offering to let us take it home and bring it back after several hours.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Sonata church? You are the one that mentioned Sonata, not me!
I'm beginning to notice something here. If you study this debate closely, there's not as much disagreement as it may appear. Most of the disagreement boils down to HOW WE PERCEIVE MIDSIZED CARS. I don't think you have all the bickering among owners of other genres of car, because the purposes of those cars are better defined.
I think the main sticking point is, "Are the midsize cars commuter cars that double as a road car, or road cars that double as commuter cars?"
I have no illusions that my Sonata (or any midsized car) is anything more than a commuter car. In my opinion, they are all too claustrophobic and uncomfortable to take on long trips. If I traveled a lot by car, I would bump it up to the next size.
Now others will disagree, and say that their (insert badge here)is comfortable enough for traveling. So they stuff things like NAV, climate control, and all those large car amenities into what amounts to a comfortable commuter car. That's fine for them, but they need to give us commuters a break.
So before we argue, we should think about about how differently everyone perceives midsize cars.
Me? As a luxury highway cruiser, my Sonata sucks. As a commuter car, it's almost unbeatable.
The reason you see that the new Sentra is looking like a Fusion is because the front end of the Fusion is a copy of the G35.
Looks like G35's front end has become the family resemblance of the new Nissans (Maxima, Altima and Sentra).
2007 Nissan Maxima:
2007 Nissan Altima:
2007 Nissan Sentra:
Hyundai or not immaculate interior
look at those headlights
rwd and if its anything like the sonata, azera but better, this will be an amazing affordable luxury car. Thousand cheaper than a bmw5 and even acura tl
I could only suggest, please, tone-down on your excessive igorance, hating, bashing. Your display contributes nothing substantial to the spirited discussion.
This is true. Seems all auto companies are fishing from the same pond as to parts, assembly methods, etc.
I say let the guy bash who/how he wants. This is blog-o-town. Don't read his posts. I kinda enjoy the spice.
Good luck on your car shopping for your daughter. She is very lucky if she will be getting a brand-new car when she turns 16.
$5,000 savings per car??? The plant has a maximum capacity of 300,000 cars per year. Let's say this plant only makes Sonata, that is $1.5 billion savings in one year at full capacity. With this savings, I bet Toyota will replace all their plants similar to that of Hyundai considering it only cost $1.1 billion.
C'mon KD, do you believe another sermon from one of the priests from Hyundai congregation?
I agree that many people see some of these midsive cars as commuter cars that double as a road car and some road cars that double as commuter cars. But, I also believe that some of the cars in this segment cater to a driving niche that makes what peopel think about the car follow reality. A Mazda6 (I own one) is not especially great for the trip from Massachusetts to Washington D.C. But in the corners and rally ways we call highways up here it is a delight to drive. Almost everyone who has driven one, though they might not like it, agrees that it is a performer unlike any other in the segment with very good looks as an added bonus. Many call the Camry, Accord, and Sonata bland. I have never heard anything but praise for the Mazda's styling, save for some 6 owners (myself included) that believe the freshened front end looks worse than the older version.
See, I think your normal luxury buyer has thrown particality out the window long time ago. They are looking for something with prestige, status, and an admiration factor. A Hyundai, with prestige to compete with a Lexus??? :confuse: Price largely won't matter.
There is a slight market for it though. Entry on this car will probably be lower than the higher end Azera's. Now people, like me, will cross shop this car with other top end midsizers aka Camry, Accord, Azera, Passat, etc. I like the idea of a RWD, semi-luxury car, with a nice engine (has to be more than the Azera standard engine or they will beaten by the press like pro punching bag). Probably not what Hyundai had in mind but too bad for them, good for me.
-Loren
...and you're willing to spend that bigger portion of your money into something that depreciates faster than its competitors?
-Loren
If the Fusion looked anything like a G35 in real life, there'd be one siting in my driveway. I think the Fusion has a lot of classic American design up front in a more modern form.
HMA backs up its cars with the impressive warranty, as the company has full confidence in the vehicle lineup, and the results show.
Consider that I would spend less of my money up front, if (as you implied) I were to buy a Sonata instead of, say, a Camcord. At the end, 5-10 years out, the dollar depreciation should be at worst equal but as time goes on will favor the less expensive car. Factor in the utility value of the up-front savings (which is considerable if for example $5000 is saved up front) and I have no worries about depreciation.
However, if someone were to buy a mid-sized car and own it for only 2-3 years, then the depreciation question would be dicier. It depends on the amount of the up-front savings compared to buying a car that has traditionally high resale value, like a Camcord.
The grills and lower facia look totaly different to me, as does the hood and front fender "tie-in" to the hood.
While visuals are completely personal, I prefer the Nissan look (maybe it's mostly the grill).
Engines for the "BH" likely 3.8L V6 270+hp; and 4.6 V8 340+hp.
i heard at least they have to get to top 5 in auto sales
But for now the equus will be called hyundai equus and tiburon or tuscani will be hyunai as well
quite possibly when a bigger version of santa fe comes out by 2009 they may have a seperate luxury division
Next year their dual vvt technology will be implemented in most hyundais, as well hyundai is working with studie for "speed versions" of their sonata, elantra and accent
...the long term warranty was brought out by Hyundai as a last ditch effort to stay in business because nobody would buy their poor quality autos and they were absolutely desperate. They are probably not a bad set of wheels for throwaway autos, they have no faith in their own autos still...their "save the company" warranty is still with us.
You know that may be true that they brough the warranty to save their company in North America. However, that was a brilliant marketing and business move. They sold more vehicles and since '99 they were also forced to drastically improve quality. They replaced all of the bean counters on the top with engineers and look at the difference in 6 years.
Their sales figures are ever increasing and their quality is matching/overtaking that of Toyota/Honda in some of the surveys. You can say whatever you may, but an honest businessman cannot help but walk away extremely impressed with what Hyundai did in six years.
Are you a Hyundai insider and do you know the inner-workings of the Hyundai executives? How do you know that they have no faith in their own vehicles? Ignorant and suppositional statements like that make Honda/Toyota fans look like fools.
I don't mind at all that Hyundai was a humble, hungry, and desperate car manufacturer not too long ago. As long as they continue to hunger for improvement and not be complacent I will be a customer for life.
Don't be brainwashed by TV advertising, legend, and projections from someone in a back room wearing a green eyeshade.
I don't intend to sell my Sonata to a wholesale auction. I will sell it privately just like all my other old cars. Just like my other 8-14 year old cars, it will roundly beat the books and projections. If you trade your car in, you get just what you deserve... bottom dollar.
Well said. Years of experience in business and manufacturing have taught me to read certain "signs" in a corporation. If I dig deeply enough, I can easily recognize when a company is deeply committed to improvement and to marketing a truly good product. All the signs are there at Hyundai, and are reflected in the latest Sonata. One of the main signs is big time spending on capital equipment. You can call that "putting their money where their advertising mouth is".
Equus has not been set in stone yet but it has a nice ring to it. "BH" is the working codename, and it's been used since when the car was first given the grenn light.
The SUV above Santa Fe, "EN", will come next year for the US market. It will be the Azera of the Sonata, just in SUV form
I also found this list this AM. Interesting how big this company is and yet how dismissive the avg person is. They are under the radar and yet they are sellinbg nearly 4 million a year. It's ok tho cuz they love being underestimated. That is how they have passed Honda, Nissan and other giants.
Current Global Automaker Rankings:
Ranking - Manufacturer - 2005 Global Sales
General Motors - 8,381,805
Toyota Motor Corp. - 8,120,000
Ford Motor Co. - 6,208,700
Volkswagen AG - 5,242,793
DaimlerChrysler AG - 4,854,700
Hyundai Automotive Group - 3,715,095
Nissan Motor Co. - 3,597,748
PSA/Peugeot-Citroen SA - 3,390,000
Honda Motor Co. - 3,365,000
Renault SA - 2,533,428
Bet the avg person doesn't think Hyundai outsells Honda and Nissan. But they do!
People need to quit bringing their old cars to used car dealers. If you sell it privately, a clean, 1-owner car that everything works on will always fetch $1-$2K more than a dealer will give you. Take your choice. Do you want top dollar, or bottom dollar for your old car? It's up to you. If you want bottom dollar, it's fine with me. That's how used car dealers are able to make a good living.
If honda can have a s2000 rwd under their belt , hyundai can do the same with these two
by 2007 i have no doubt in my mind hyundais nameplate will have respect, at least similiar to nissan whose cars are not even as good as hyundai in terms of quality(though maxima to infiniti does) but do have respect. The azera is selling at a respectable volume already(competing well against avalon, lucerne, maxima) i think the equus can compete well against a (acura tl, infinity g35) and is cheaper though its really meant to bang with bmw 5 series(Size of the car and luxury)
You're more or less right. Although I don't really care what others think about my Sonata, they seem to like it a lot. Panache? One doesn't normally buy a mid-sized sedan for panache. None of the cars in this class have panache, for goshsake.
I disagree. A top of the line Accord definitely has a refined air about it that pushes the entry level luxury performance envelope. Buy yes, you pay for that.
If you want to start a thread on some mid-sized car topic that is of interest to you, go for it--no one is stopping you.
Relitavely speaking, Accord, Camry, Sonata, Fusion, Altima are all nice cars. But they would all be embarrassed by cars with real panache. I don't think the upper crust would get excited about cars designed mainly to drive Mom to work.
People need to face facts and stop denying the logical obvious.
OK, let's face some facts. With current incentives, a Sonata V6 can be had for under $17k. What is the current market price of a comparable Accord or Camry V6 (with alloys and ESC)? According to Edmunds.com, $23k would be a really good price for a Camry LE V6 with ESC and alloys. So let's say a $6000 difference.
Now move out five years and let's sell the Camry and Sonata. Let's say the Sonata would sell for $6000, based on Edmunds.com TMV for a private-party sale of a clean 2001 Sonata GLS V6 in my area. (I think that is low because the '06 Sonata is a much better car than the '01 Sonata, but let's be conservative.) That is $11,000 less than the purchase price. That means the Camry would need to sell for at least $12,000 to come out as well financially as on the Sonata. But the private-party TMV for a five-year old Camry LE V6 similarly equipped to the Sonata is just under $11,000 (based on the 2001 Camry).
Just one fact-based example that shows that higher up-front discounts and incentives can make up for higher resale value.
Yes, but this is a moot point, since the same is true for a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, etc...
A good thing about selling your old car is, if offered a figure that would be considered a low resale value, you can always refuse it. In other words, the seller can influence the resale value.
(Edited heavily)