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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Camry all the way. Volvo is not really all that appealing. CXS? Ha! It doesn't matter what the Camry cost, they will be flying off dealers lots.
As I previously said, I'm not much of a Toyota fan, but their cars do sell. In fact, there isn't an auto manufacturer on the face of the earth whose cars aren't on the road, just more so with Toyota and Honda.
I'll take the old school Accord V6 anyday. At least it'll still be running at 200,000 miles.
Buick also scores higher than most all of the imports in quality now. It's just hard to change the herd mentality away from the imports and also to take a look at GM. They no longer make the rubbish they did 5-10 years ago.
The LaCrosse is a toad in every trim but the CXS, where it gets decent suspension and tires, plus the Cadillac engine tossed in as well. It drives so differently that GM should throw the other trims in the trash and only sell the CXS(same with the Lucerne - the CXS model is 100% a better car when you drive it than the other Lucernes)
Me? You can keep your Camry. I've driven both and I know which one is better in city traffic and costs less to fix down the road($3500 transmission? That's crazy - I'll stick to the GM anyday. It's cheap as dirt to fix)
I guess I will with about 450K new Camry buyers this year.
I am Trying to find a movie. All I can remember of the movie is the end of the movie when the car hits a train side on ( you think he has got away with it ),I think the car was a Dodge Charger , IT has been many years since i have seen the movie. But like to add to the car chase dvd I have got . Another scene i can remember is the car getting chase or something like that, in a orange grove. It was a great movie like Vanishing point , gone in 60 sec , Duel and many more.
You're exactly right! Of all the people I've ever met or known in my life that had big, big bucks, not a single one of them would ever mention money. Not even a hint of it. Now I have known some guys that owed a lot of money that went around bragging a lot about what all they had. The problem was that they were deeply in debt for all of their toys and McMansions.
Well here are my impressions. Because it is auto-show all impressions are about interior and exterior and execution.
Let’s start with Camry – I was disappointed. On photos interior looks impressive but in real life it sucks. I did not like wide flat seats without lateral support – very uncomfortable feeling. In general interior looks and feels like a new model from Buick. I am 50 y.o. but still think I am not old enough to enjoy Camry.
My hope was a new VW Passat. But I was disappointed again. First exterior looks like Asian car – there is nothing European or cool about its exterior. Secondly I could not find comfortable seating position. And interior has some kind Buicknish in it, it just do not look or feel cool as used to be in older Passat.
Altima/Maxima – I do not like exterior – too ugly no style at all, I do not know who came up with these ideas. Interior is much improved but still I did not feel any desire to buy one of these.
Saturn Aura: exterior look too Asian to me – I am not impressed. Interior looks kind of Asian too but design still is pretty good. What I did not like is some flimsiness of interior panels, like door panels or armrest. Audio/HVAC stacks on the steering wheel move – another indication of flimsiness of interior. And then – too much hard plastics – lower dash e.g.
Chrysler Sebring – hmm, what did they mean? It looks as ugly in person as it looks on photos. Interior –to much hard plastic, center armrest is too high, overall has some cheap feeling cannot explain why. It does not look and feel like either Asian or European, may be it is a truly American design but execution might be better. May be in darker colors it will look better.
So my choice so far is Mercury Milan. It is pretty impressive vehicle. I love exterior design – it stirs emotion, it is sweet and sexy in other word. Very European with some American touches. Interior also feels European and well executed. Soft plastic all around, supportive and comfortable seats, everything is solid - no flimsiness anywhere, soft green lightning – I do not like too dark colors like blue or too bright like red, and orange looks too cheap. But mostly no no-nonsense driver oriented tight cockpit.
Lincoln MKZ – dash is too high and strange. Well some plastics are not for luxury car – certainly cost-cutting.
BTW I liked new Lincoln Navigator interior. It is retro and cool at the same time - for truck it okay, but not for sedan. It also uses better materials and looks and feels more upscale than previous Navigator. I am not interested in SUVs, just found new Navigator interior coolest of the show.
I like the Milan also; it's my favorite domestic mid-sized family car (although I haven't driven the Aura yet). Now that side bags and ABS are standard on the Milan, I think it's a nice package even in base form.
In full disclosure, we have one almost new family car that transports what is most important to me, but I keep hanging onto a 15 y/o car to go to work and back.
The Mazda6 is a great vehicle. I say get it. Keep the 15 year old car as a beater.
In full disclosue, I'm not a Madison Ave. ad guy but I play one on TV.
Mazda6 is too small and stiff (I mean suspension) I am too old for this stuff. G6 has monochrome cabin with low quality details and some are flimsy and hard plastic. I like G6 exterior more than Aura, but interior feels too tight and cheap. And it is narrow and long what is not a good combination. I would prefer shorter and wider car.
I like interior and gray lightning of Accord. But still it is too noisy and too commonplace. Exterior looks like typical poorly designed Asian car, i.e. no sexy or anything - rather ugly front. It is just practical car and I want something more unique and emotional not just practical. And According to journalists it is less sporty than Fusion/Milan.
Anything Kia or Huydai I do not even consider. I actually sat it Sonata and it feels pretty cheap inside – but it is expected – it is a cheap car.
Sexiest cars I saw at the show were Italian cars. And only Italian cars were Lamborgini and Maseratti. Man those are sweet but I cannot afford having one.
~alpha
Jack
Milan (Milano in Italian) is an Italian reference in name only, as everyone knows it's built on a Mazda 6 platform. That's like calling the late '80s and early '90s Daewoo-built Pontiac Le Mans a French car!!
I kind of agree, Savetheland. You might be happier in a slightly used premium or entry level lux/sport sedan. I am pretty sure I will be too.
Since Pletko hasn't chimed in yet, you might want to look at the full sized "domestic" offerings if the size/comfort is more inline with what you are looking for. Apparently they aren't as expensive as previously thought.
How about a hood that shuts all the way? The ones I checked out looked like the hood was ajar even when slammed shut.
How is the "shifter" weak? It has a 6spd transmission??
Hood shuts all the way??? what?? this makes no sense whatsoever.
unrefined interior?? in your opinion or your perception..
Hood shuts all the way??? what?? this makes no sense whatsoever.
unrefined interior?? in your opinion or your perception..
I think he was pointing out that many other automatic transmission cars in the class has the boy-racer psuedo manu-matic shift mode where you can pretend your driving a manual.
Talk about GM. Saw a Lucerne at a floor show. Buicks' have come a long way. It's a nice car from far away. But when you examine it up close, the hood and trunk didn't align with the body and as CR says there were a few more "sample defects".
My guess would be if one examines a number or CamCords, the fit and finish would be beyond reproach.
This is certainly what one would expect, but not what I've observed in critically inspecting a number of Camrys, both the 2005 and 2006 model years, and the new generation 2007. In fact, several car mags have pointed out the flaws in the fit and finish of the Camry, especially the 2007.
I almost bought a new 2005 Camry LE, but the rear doors weren't hung properly, as the seams didn't match up with the front doors', the inside of each front door's trim (near the driver's and passenger's side windows) was improperly aligned, as well as other little bits and pieces, including the front bumper cover not in alignment with the right-front fender (on several samples of 2005 Camrys). These all came out of the Georgetown, KY plant, and were brand new on the lot.
The Camry may have had superlative build-quality, and fit and finish, but I've noted otherwise in scrutinizing the car lately. I think the production capacity drive is catching up with Toyota.
The Accord, on the other hand, seems to have maintained it's excellent fit and finish.
I can't speak of seeing large scale defects in 2007 Camrys', but on the whole one can't help but notice the excellent build qualities on the car. On those I've seen, interior finish is beyond reproach, the body is completely aligned. Why can't GM do this? Even if there are issues reported with the car, I wouldn't hesitate for one second in getting a 2007 Camry. I know Toyota will address them.
Check again, he clearly likes the Milan.
Crash tests, not impressive (even with 8 airbags). Fuel economy, not good (less than 20mpg average). Looking like a Buick, not a plus for me (don't they have a minimum age of 55, to own this car? ) I would rather buy a 3 year old Avalon.
jefferyscott - you are correct. that said, some of the criticisms logged against the other models are absurd. I'm not really sure how the Milan stirs emotion and the Fusion doesnt, they look the same to me, with different front fascias and taillamps. Inside, too.
~alpha
You'd have to ask the local dealers in my town advertising the Azera SE for under $22k. Maybe they are including the loyalty rebate and/or part of their holdback.
Since it was raining, I was happy that I wasn't the guy in front of me who was trying unsuccesfully to get the same tv I got into the backseat of a 4-door pick up (probably so it didn't get wet). after throwing their shoulder into the tv box a couple times, they loaded the tv into the bed in the rain. Hope he didn't have far to go! I just had to laugh a bit knowing my "midsize sedan" was in this instance more useful than this guys pickup. SO glad I got this car instead of an SUV: much better handling, much safer because roll-over is much less likely with utility that fits the bill most of the time, and looks loads better imo.
Amazing these hatches.
And those Asian cars, everbody knows they're junk. Don't test drive a Honda, Toyota, Hyundai or Kia becauce they are Asian cars.
Go buy the Milan if that will make you happy. Nobody will hate you for it.
I am too old for cars like Fusion - it looks are more youth oriented . Milan though would be better if it had less chrome in the grill (or smaller grill) and more elegant design for radio and HVAC like in Mazda6.
You are right about this segment being boring by design – it is challenging to find anything decent in this segment – but I need everyday reliable car for commuting and family. In the past there were intermediate brands up from cars for masses like Chevrolet but below luxury cars like Cadillac. I want something more exclusive than Ford, Toyota or Honda. Actually Honda is not that bad but they chose to go mass market and come up with ugly looking cars. May be they will do better with next Accord, but it is still will be everywhere - in every corner and parking lot. Real Honda should be Acura, but Acura is overpriced, at least for America. For Acura price you can buy nice RWD car.
Alpha1, tell me you are joking about preferring Sonata. I mean if you want appliance it may be okay, but I am emotional about cars and gadgets. If Alfa in you nickname has anything to do with your car preferences I am very surprised that you may like something like Sonata or Camry.
You are what - Asian car lover? What all this rant supposed to mean? I do not care if you hate me or not.
With that said Avalons - 2007 are routinely discounted at $4,000 to $5,000 off of msrp, as are the brand new Lexus Es 350, which may interest the individual who attended the SF Autoshow. However, the midsize segment may just not appeal to you. Perhaps, look at the large car segment, or you need to look at an SUV. There was a good buzz for the CRV at the SF Autoshow when I attended last week.
I think it is difficult to assign a "country/continent" look to most cars today. All manufacturers are dealing with the same physics in designing an efficient package of approximately the same size.
For what it's worth, my '05 Sonata (previous gen.) has been mistaken in a parking lot for a Mercedes due to a similarity of headlights on occasion and many times has been mistaken for a Jaguar (3.0?) due to overall appearance, except the hood ornament. Does this similar appearance make the '05 Sonata look too "Asian" or too "European?"
I don't care. I like the way it looks. And, so far, it has been a great car.
What?? Now your pushing it here. There is no way the Milan and Fusion look the same. The rear portions are completly different tailights and light shapes. Frontend is also very different. Fusion has the well known 3 bar chrome grill. And interior the same?? It goes to show you didn't even look at the pics right here at Edmunds of the interiors..
Well thats what I exactly mean by "Asian design". You probably did not notice irony in comparisions did you? Sorry to be harsh.
I drove to the beach today (where I am NOW, yee haw!), set the cruise control on 70 and didn't touch it. I didn't stop, and had NO traffic or A/C use. I was the only one in the car, and my RPMs were at 2,300 or so at that speed.
I drove 256.3 miles on 6.246 gallons of regular. If you do the math, that's 41.03 MPGs!!!
I drive a 2006 Accord EX, Auto, 4-cylinder, which clicked to 14,000 miles on the way here.
I know many will be skeptical; heck, I was too. I even went back and added gas little by little until it was almost splashing out, so I know it is full.
I absolutely LOVE this car! I drove 256 miles for $13.72!
Wow. Calculated it down to the penny.
Would you have been disappointed if it cost you 8 cents more?