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Cabover Campers & Camper Trailers (pickups)
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Kevin, Evanston, WY
Strange, that it is only needed when you don't have an auxillary battery. I believe the GM 2nd battery is the same as the main battery.
I bought an expensive little battery that fit under the brace and is supposed to have as much power as a regular battery. Best thing I can say about it is that the brace is still there, and the battery fits.
Did you get the GM relay also? And the special battery to starter cable? How about the other pieces and parts?
Have you ever read Vince's story on installing an auxillary battery? He's the one who gave most of us the part numbers and installation hints. If you don't have it, let me know and I can email it to you, or post it here.
Mike L
http://www.wranglernw.com/
....see the lip above the terminal connection with the two holes in it? The brace I'm talking about removing is bolted to there, bends in an arc to the outside of the truck and bolts to the quarter panel just about where the lower left side of the battery is. A fellow employee has an avalance..., I guess I'll ask if I can peek under his hood to see if he has a brace there. I looked at my truck last night and can't see what useful purpose that brace serves. I measured the lowest clearance point and it's 6 inches high.
It is my belief the fender brace is removed by GM when they install the aux battery. Check out a dual battery diesel at you dealer. Must not be a very important brace, huh? You won't be the only one without that brace in any case.
Mike L
Chevy at first said you couldn't get the aux battery when you get California emissions (required here), then after I ordered the truck I learned they removed that restriction. So I ordered most of the parts from the parts department and did it myself. The details apply to a 99/00 Silverado. The parts you need:
15705102 Support bracket $12.85 356668 Battery clamp $5.70
12135194 Relay $42.84 15321214 Cable, pos to relay $29.00
15321259 Cable, starter to relay $33.66 15321207 Cable, neg $30.35
21021808 Nut, metric, bag/10 $3.60
You must order the support tray at least. It replaces an existing bracket. The other items can be bought in some form aftermarket but the factory items fit nicely and are well made. I didn't buy the battery but found that I will have to because the available height is very minimum so the low profile side terminal battery is all that will fit. I don't know yet if they make a deep cycle battery in that style but I hope so because it's important to use that type. If desired, they sell a battery insulator jacket like is on the main battery for only a few dollars. The overall concept is that the alternator output is taken from the heavy cable attached to the starter motor, run to a relay, and the other side of the relay then goes to the aux battery AND the camper. This means when the engine is on, the main battery and the aux battery and the camper are all connected together (in parallel) so the alternator can charge everything. Then when the ignition is off the relay opens up and only the aux battery is connected to the camper. If the camper has its own battery (mine does) then the two batteries are connected together so you get double capacity. Of course you can run them down without affecting the main truck battery. Now some useful details I learned. First, disconnect the main battery negative cable! Attach the cable to the starter using one of the new nuts, don't take off the original cable, just add the new one. The stud is long enough. Access the starter stud via the passenger side wheel well. I was able to reach over the top of the tire and get in there with a small rachet. The end of the cable with heat shielding goes here. Find the connector for the relay control hanging near the air conditioner dryer tank. This is near the aux battery location against the firewall. It is a 2 pin connector, if you don't have air cond. then there might be two connectors. The one with the white locking clip is for the air cond., use the other one. Mount the relay on the firewall in a convienent location, you have to drill 2 holes. Don't put it where the battery will hit it or where the studs could touch metal parts. Plug in the little connector and attach the heavy cable to the bottom stud using one of the new nuts. Tie the cable to the frame away from the exhaust manifold. Notice the cable has a fuseable link in the relay end. Get some heavy automotive wire, at least 10 guage. Put a ring lug on one end and connect it to the top relay stud. This wire has to go across the engine bay to the big fuse box on the driver's side. I ran it up over above the engine using clamps to hold it to the firewall. The aux battery positive cable also attaches to the same relay stud. I ordered the trailer towing package and the camper/5th wheel wiring options. These are both the same electrically but the camper wiring just has an extra bundle between the cab and bed with unfinished ends. The following details apply to both the camper and hitch wiring. The camper positive lead is red and comes into the fuse box in one of those big covered bundles. It goes to a hidden stud and is powered via the upper left most fuse (40A) which isn't installed from the factory but they give you loose with the towing option. We don't use this because we don't want main battery power. To get this wire free, you need to lift the entire plastic body off the fuse box. Remove the top, then pull the bottom far side away from the little tabs locking it down. Pull up and you can get a few inches of movement. You may need to unlock the clip between the fuse box and the fender with a screwdriver. The cover will not come off due to a bracket but you can get enough distance to see the red wire on the stud in the far left corner. Remove the wire, pull it out and put the plastic back in place. This is the feed for the camper and needs to connect to the heavy wire coming from the relay. You shouldn't connect them directly because it's a safety hazard. A better way is to connect them through a circuit breaker. At the auto or RV store they sell little 30A breakers for about $3 that have two studs. Connect each wire to a stud and you have a nice junction block and protection against shorts. I mounted the breaker on the plastic fuse box, in the cutout where your fingers go to pull the cover off. This way the connections are covered when the cover is on. Only thing left is the aux battery negative cable. I don't know where it goes because I haven't put a battery in yet. I'm sure there must be a good ground nearby since this is a factory option. Otherwise just connect it to a solid, clean metal ground. For the camper end, I ran the wire bundle into the bed through one of the existing holes in the front corner. Then ran it behind my bedliner and mounted a nice metal connector in the bedliner wall (had to shorten the connector with a hacksaw). I bought the connector at the RV store. It fits almost flush against the bedliner, has 6 pins and a spring loaded door to keep the elements out. The door also locks the mating connector in when inserted. I put in a similar system in my old truck but didn't have any factory provisions to work with. I used a relay from the RV store ($17) and it worked fine, or you could use a solid state isolator. I learned that those relays can't tolerate water so be careful where you mount it if you go this way. I sealed the second one with RTV and never had a problem. Also be sure to use a circuit breaker or fuse between the between the aux battery and the camper, otherwise it's a fire hazard. Good Luck!
-Eric
http://home.attbi.com/~vcm/batt/battery.html
The brace must come off to fit any normal battery. I worried about it too and spent some time looking into it. GM removes the brace when you order the truck with the aux battery option so I did to. My Optima battery may actually fit if put on its side but then the hold down doesn't work so I chose to just remove the brace. I don't agree with the dealer though. The battery tray replaces a lower bracket but it doesn't offer any more support than the original bracket. It does not replace the function of the upper brace, however I have no idea what the function of the upper brace is anyway. It may be there for general rigidity or for crash design. Anyway just remove it and don't give it another thought.
If you can afford it, the Optima yellow (deep cycle) is a good battery. I found it for $140 at a battery shop. It usually sells for $180-200. GM uses the same battery as the main, not even a deep cycle. They don't intend the aux battery to be used with a RV so a deep cycle isn't needed.
The deep cycle battery will tolerate deep discharge and long term storage better than standard batteries will. If you use you camper more or less year round or put a charger (a good one with a charge program built in) on it during storage, then no problem with almost any battery.
On the other hand, if you pull the camper off and let is sit for months at a time, then you may wan to invest in a better battery.
My little Oddessy battery met all of our electrical needs while fitting under the fender brace. We don't use much electricity - no stereo, TV, AC, Microwave, bugzapper or whatever. Just some lights when it is dark, a small fan when it is hot and that is about it. So any battery would be enough for us, maybe even just using the truck battery. But I like the insurance of having the main battery untouched by the camper.
Mike L
I should probably take a couple pictures of the battery/relay installation and post them. Tonight is grocery shopping, so I don't know if I can do it tonight, or maybe tomorrow.
Mike L
Of course if you aren't quite familiar with the nitty gritty details of this wiring nothing I've said will make any sense!
Mike L
And hopefully you will learn a couple of little things that you can change to make your camper more enjoyable. We've got 60,000 miles on our little camper, and we are still changing things.
Have fun, that is the most important part!
Mike L
650-361-8978
Mike L
Well, we're now fighting over weekends for this summer, so we thought we'd add a jointly owned popup camper to the stable. I'd like a fairly well constructed 8' camper with furnace, hot water heater, and stove, porto pottie slot ok, maybe with outside shower.
Buddy has a v10 CC LB F350. I have a 2500HD CC LB 6.0.
Live in AZ at 7,000', tend to camp higher.
Suggestions?
Oh ya, popup desirable as we'd use this camper for quick trips to races, where we drive 1500 miles in a weekend at speeds of 80mph, so aerodynamics/fuel econ improvements are desirable.
http://www.rvbg.com/
http://www.rvsafety.com/Manufact.htm
Recommendations include:
Four Wheel Campers
R. C. Willet Campers
Phoenix Campers get a lukewarm vote
Vince has a list of popup manufacturers, but I couldn't find it on his website. Maybe he will post it for you.
Mike L
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/
http://www.palominorv.com/
http://www.phoenixcampers.com/index.html
http://sunliteinc.com/
http://www.northstarcampers.com/ (RC Willet)
http://www.alaskancamper.com
http://www.lite-craftcampers.com
http://www.hallmarkrv.com/
Anybody own one?
What type of popup camper did the turtle expedition use?
We had our Phoenix camper built to the size of the Four Wheel Camper. The size works well for us, and we still don't want a larger camper. My wife could easily put up the top on the Four Wheel Camperl, and she cannot put up the top on the Phoenix.
The soft side on the Four Wheel is a single layer of HD tent material. You add a separate layer for cold weather insulation. Our Phoenix has triple layer sidewalls, coated tent material inside and out, and a 1/4" foam layer in between. The material doesn't hold up too well - the outer layer is cracked at the fold corners.
All in all, I think the Four Wheel camper is worth the money. When we bought our camper, money was tight. If I was doing it today, I would go for the Four Wheel Camper.
Mike L
I plugged the camper into house electric overnite Wednesday to get the fridge going. Didn't get even lukewarm. I was parked on a very slight incline, so next time I'll try on a completely level surface. Then, I put the fridge on gas thinking it would get cold while driving, stopped to buy a wrench & checked. Flame was out. Switched over to DC power and it got cold while I was on the road, changed over to gas when I got to my campsite and it worked fine all weekend.
Let's see,,,,now I need an awning...;>)
http://www.fourwheelcampers.com/main.htm
See the contacts section on the website.
Mike L
The AC, DC and gas all do the same thing - supply heat for the refrig to run. If DC and gas both work, then either the AC heater is defective, or the AC wiring is a problem.
Do you have anyway to measure the AC voltage? Does the AC get to the refrig? Is the refrig plugged in? Is the outlet hooked up? Mine has an AC outlet between the refrig and the outer wall, and the refrig plugs into that. Yours may or may not be similar.
I usually run DC when driving and Gas when camped. On the rare occasions that the camper is plugged in, I use AC - usually on use AC at home in the driveway.
We have an awning on the side of the camper. We've only used it 2-3 times, and then mostly to give the camper some shade. We usually have shade on one side of the camper and sit in that. In the middle of day we are either on the road or out doing something.
Mike L
Degree of levelness seems a little more important when running with resistance heat, maybe less circulation of the ammonia. As I have a two-way, I run gas unless plugged into shore power. Almost never have a flameout, even with 80mph travel....
Well, you know what they say - RTFM (Read the Freakin' Manual). I'll take another look at that tonight to see if I can glean any more info from it. I'll post back tomorrow if I find out anything.
Anyone know how to fix the flame out problem?
We have hit 80mph only a few times, mostly cruising at 70 to 75 on the Interstates but often are pushing against a 10-30mph headwind on the way west. I think the ability of the flame to survive depends upon the location of the frig in the camper, the type of air turbulence created by the particular model of truck, etc. When you think about what would happen to a house subjected to winds of up to 100mph (truck speed plus headwind) I guess I'm not surprised at tearing a bit of aluminum.
We run on 12 volt when driving, gas when parked, and on 120 when an outlet is easily available. There is a thermostat at the top of the frig compartment that switches on a "muffin" type fan when the compartment gets too warm. Laurie, you may have heard a fan of this type start up when you plugged in. It should run, no matter what power source you are using as long as the compartment is too warm. Our thermostat was inoperative when we purchased the camper and I replaced it with one that senses air temperature instead of temp in the refrigeration plumbing.
You can check if the fridge is getting power by plugging a lamp or something into its AC outlet. It's possible there is a circuit breaker open.
My fridge is only 2 way so I always run with gas. In all the years I've had it the flame only went out once. You could install a sheetmetal baffle to protect the flame area from direct wind if yours keeps going out. Take a look at the flame and make sure its even and blue. It's common for the feed tube to become partially plugged with spider webs, rust, etc. In that event clearing the junk will probably fix the problem.
OK, ok, I have to buy gas for the truck to generate the 12V. But, I'll bet that having 1 tire 2psi low uses more gas than the refrig does. And the longer I can put off buying propane the better.
With the aux battery, I can run several hours on 12V, so I don't worry much about it if I forget when we stop for lunch or so.
My dad's camper never blows out the refrig flame. Now he has a 27' camper, and I'm sure the air flow is much smoother than our popups, but it never blows out.
My popup didn't have a fan for the cooling coils. It depends on what model of refrig you have. So I added one and some baffling to ensure the air goes through the coils. Helps some on hot days, but it is not needed when we are moving, just when we are stopped.
Mike L
http://outfittermfg.com
The Caribou 8 looks like the ticket for a guy that lives at 7,000' elevation, and likes to camp higher.
Turns out the guy who did my wiring is also a Dometic Warranty repair person, so he'll to hook it up to the c'puter to see if there's a problem with the "computer board" or something I think he called a "K-Valve". He claimed those are the two most common things to go on the units and since the camper is a 2000 model, he thinks I can get it repaired under warranty. Will have it "analysed" next week and see what gives.
We have a small Dometic (~2cf) and it has a hard time cooling down in warm weather. So we always have it on. 12v when driving, gas when parked - even for an hour at lunch. Always try to park with the sun on the other side of the camper.
Mike L