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Cabover Campers & Camper Trailers (pickups)
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Comments
I need to find some plastic trim molding for the edge of a counter top. It is white, flexible molding shaped like a "T" so it fits in a groove milled around the edge of the counter. It's for the little counter between the sink and bed in some Lance models. Does anyone know a source? I haven't seen this style in the RV store. I suppose the Lance dealer may have it but I haven't checked as we don't have one in town.
Here are some camp sites (ha)
www.campnetamerica.com
http://www.gorp.com/default.htm
valley hike up the mountain only to find our rigs up there it's worth it. Or when the guys around the campground boat ramp keep hinting for you to take them fishing in the boat you towed (because they couldn't bring theirs because they were pulling a trailer) me and old Elly May just hop in and go fishing by ourselves. I like the big RV's too, and camp with friends who have them, but they're not versitile enough for me.
I'm happy. More space would always be nice but I'm
not willing to drag it around.
What kind of camper & truck do you have?
Here are some pics of ours:
Mine in a few California locations -
http://members.home.net/vofm/camper2.jpg
http://members.home.net/vofm/camper3.jpg
Mike's popup on the new truck -
http://members.home.net/vofm/sanluis.jpg
Brutus's beast in beautiful Alaska -
http://members.home.net/vofm/frontright1.jpg
Hey all you others out there, you should send me
some pics and I'll make an Edmunds Camper Chat
Crowd web page.
Yours is just a midsize..........Hmmmmm, maybe a 'Betty'?
Mike L
You will be pretty much limited to a popup with the F150 but it sounds like that's what you want anyway. I'm sure it will handle that load just fine. You may want to add some of our favorite goodies like air bags etc. if you want better handling. If Ford offers a rear stabilizer bar and/or heavy shocks, buy them.
Sorry to hear you had so much trouble with the Chevy. I have a 2000 2500 and love it. The only problems I've had are minor, like the radio. Somehow the 2500's seem to have less problems. I hear the F150 is also a very nice truck, I've still never experienced the new style F150 outside of the dealer's showroom.
I need some better pics of yours. I'll take some in the forest for a nice background. I have to start building a guest book. You know, I wonder what ever happened to Gary. Once he bought that new Lance and moved to Truckee, or was it Quincy, we never heard from him again. Must be too cold for modems up there.
A 7,700 GVWR is definitely limiting you to a popup unless you really want to be overweight. Add up the weight of yourself, your passengers, your camping gear, your food, and your tanks (6-8 pounds per gallon for fuel, water, propane) and subtract that from the 7,700. Now subtract the curb weight of the truck with all your options and that's the weight you can carry and remain within limit.
It adds up pretty quick. My truck weighs 7,100 pounds with a full tank of fuel. My camper weighs 3,900 pounds (2,900 dry weight plus 1,000 in options). That puts me at 11,000 and my GVWR is 11,200. Add me to the truck, 30 gallons of water, two propane tanks, food and my camping gear and I tip the scale around 11,700.
Personally, if I knew for sure that I was going to get a camper of any kind to put in the bed, I'd get a 3/4 ton over a 1/2 ton. It just opens up more options. In the future, you may want to tow a boat or something behind you, so it's always nice to have that extra 1,000 pounds or so of payload capacity.
The gas mileage has been about 10% lower due to the higher weight, but not too bad.
I guess what I'm saying is, check out the F250SD, you may be pleasantly suprised by the price.
Mike L
I'm glad we are heading out next weekend, I'm ready! If we hadn't lived in the camper for a week with the fumigation of the house I'd be having cabin fever.
Now, I guess I'm just having work fever.
Anybody want to check out Death Valley next month?
Mike L
I wish that I had done this 5 years ago when the problem started. Once the toilet was off it was immediately apparent what the problem was. I had assumed that the black ABS? tank bottom was part of a single tank that lay under the shower/bath floor. Instead the tank is in two pieces, a black bottom that is ?glued ?fused to the fiberglass floor of the bath. The seal between the toilet and the tank had nothing to do with the leak which was between the floor and the lower portion of the tank where they met. This was the source of the leak that could be demonstrated when the tank was filled to the point where water came up in the bowl of the toilet putting a bit of pressure into the system.
I was able to get a wide angle mirror and trouble light down through the hole and inspect the join of the two portions of the tank. After cleaning the joint I squeezed a lot of silicone caulk into a cup and got it down the hole where I could use a plastic spoon to spread it along the joint. A bit of contortion of the arm was required!
After allowing it to set I reinstalled the toilet put the camper on the truck and we set off for last weekend at the Army Corps of Engineers Campground (Winhall Brook) on the West River in Vermont. Nice hard freeze but the sun came on warm during the day for the dam release on the West River. Had some fine white water canoeing. Arrived home, took off the inspection panel and NO LEAK. The repair may not last, but for now we are OK.
Another example of cost saving during manufacturing. Creating a seamless blow molded tank would have been a bit more expensive but avoided a problematic join between two different plastics. I wish the RV manufacturers would put more quality into their work. Also I wish I had taken the plumbing apart myself early on when the warranty was still good and found the problem.
My last truck was a 7700 GVWR '89 F250 2WD. It carried a 9.4' 2500lb Lance hardside. I bought it used as a set but the owner said he took the truck to the dealer and they told him it's the same as a F250HD 8600 GVWR except for the springs. So he added Hellwig overload springs, a rear bar, and decent shocks. That truck handled as well as my 2000 Chevy 2500 with the camper on. The new truck is better in all other ways but I had no problem with the weight on the Ford. Don't sweat a few hundred pounds. That truck will do just fine with a popup plus load.
I read your story with interest because mine has a small leak between the bowl and the tank. I'm sure it's at the top because if I run a hose on high into the bowl for awhile, I get a little trickle of water on the floor of the bathroom. I assume this is the upper seal you mentioned. The bolts holding the toilet down are so hard to access I haven't wanted to touch it. Maybe I ought to have you do it, you sound like a pretty good contortionist!
I haven't found the rear anti-sway bar to be needed at all. I have the bar from my Chevy 1500, and have felt no need to install it on the 2500. On the other hand, the 1500 NEEDED that sway bar.
Anyway, you may not need the rear sway bar with a truck that has enough suspension for the load.
Mike L
The Thetford bolts down with standard brass bolts as are used on any domestic toilet. An open end wrench works just fine on the nut, but as I was part way through removing the nut, the bolt started to turn with it since there is no steel coupling on the tank to grab the rectangular bolt head - the bolt just goes through to its head in the tank. I lifted the toilet a bit to put pressure on the bolt head and it stopped turning allowing me to get the toilet out. When I reinstalled I put a dab of silicone on the nut head and let it set to keep it from turning.
The original seal was a foam gasket that must be made specially for RVs, but I used a standard household wax seal of the type that has a urethane foam insert surrounded by wax. As long as the seal is warmed to 75 degrees or so and if you go very slowly as you press the toilet and seal down on the connection there is no danger of cracking the plastic john. The urethane is supposed to retain some resiliance to insure that a constant seal is maintained with temp changes, etc. So far, so good.
Glad that you found a good rubber mat. I just put the 2 cow mats back where they are stored. Cut down to size, they still weigh about 75 pounds each. Handle them with a vise grip and some brute force. Just another heavy and crude way to get things done.
My brother has just completed his Pulsar all-composite homebuilt airplane. 80hp Jabiru engine, 2 place side by side, cruises at 140 knots, total dry weight 620 lbs, good for 6 and 8 G's. Skin as smooth as a baby's [non-permissible content removed]. Now if some of that engineering could give us a 1200 lb camper we would really have something.
markbuck, I'm guessing CNG means compressed natural gas? That must be a big rebate, $15k for new Ford is great. Does the 60 cents per gallon equivalent take into account the energy difference between fuels? I mean does the truck get less mpg with CNG than with gas?
My 1500 was $22K and my 2500 was $24K.
How much is the AZ rebate?
Is the CNG option only available with the Super Cab Short Bed, or is it the 7700lb option that mandates the Super Cab Short Bed?
Mike L
On the bi-fuel engines, CNG has less HP (207 vs 260 stock) as compression ratio is the std 9 or so to 1. A gallon equivalent is 122 cubic feet of natural gas. Power is down on the bi fuels as air/fuel mixture is about 10:1 and the natural gas takes up space that is normally air.
AZ rebate is 40% of total price and then you also get back incremental cost($6k) of the bi-fuel. So on a $30k truck, you get back 12K (40%) plus $6K conversion so about $12K net. Plus no sales tax, no liscence tax, permanent plate....incredible
This is gonna break the state's budget. I suspect the program will be gone in a week or two. There are alot of folks paying for the conversion, but not using.... I'm jumping in with both feet and buying a home refueling system too...
The CNG bifuel option from Ford factory is on LB reg cabs and SB Super Cabs. You lose a foot and a half of bed space with the 225 cubic foot CNG tank. See www.fleet.ford.com for details. Click on alt fuel vehicles in left column.
PS. Honda makes a dedicated CNG Civic which has 13:1 compression ratio.
I have until tomorrow to decide on whether to get the reg/LB or the Super/SB. Am single but it is nice to have seating capacity.... Current vehicle is 1500 reg LB Silverado. Have placed my 2500HD on hold pending availability of the 6.0L engine with the KL5 hardened valve option for use with CNG......
From the Ford Website:
"2001 F-150 Light Duty Bi-Fuel NGV
Available Models
Regular Cab 4x2 6600 payload group - short or long box model
Regular Cab 4x2/4x4 and Super Cab 4x4 only 7700 payload group (long box only)
The Ford F-Series is offered as a bi-fuel natural gas pickup in the 2001 model year. This hard-working truck has two separate fuel systems, allowing it to run on either natural gas or gasoline. So you can drive North America’s best-selling full-size pickup and enjoy the benefits of natural gas. You can count on the F-Series bi-fuel NGV to deliver the same Ford Tough quality, reliability, safety and performance as the gasoline-powered F-Series. Engines are specially upgraded for durability when using gaseous fuels like natural gas. The bi-fuel F-Series NGV comes equipped with internal tank solenoid valves. In the event of a crash, the solenoid valves will stop the fuel flow.
The F-Series has two separate fuel systems, allowing it to run on either natural gas or gas which allows you the flexibility and dependability to go anywhere, anytime. The advantages of a truck that runs on natural gas are reduced fuel costs, opportunity to fuel at home, reduction of certain emissions, high octane and the readily-available natural gas pipeline system.
The F-Series bi-fuel NGV is offered in the F-150 Regular Cab 4x2 and 4x4 as well as the F-150 SuperCab 4x2, 4x4 equipped with the 7700 Payload Group (Option 627)."
For that kind of money from the state, I might be willing to drive a Ford.
Mike L
As I was driving home from picking up the camper, the automatic door locks opened and closed a couple of times and when I unlocked the door after stopping at a store the burglar alarm went off. I had the aux. battery installed, so I suspect something happened during that installation. The problems haven’t repeated, so I’m hoping it was a momentary glitch.
We took the camper up to Loon Lake in the Sierras this weekend and everything worked as advertised. The furnace worked OK, but it smelled like burnt plastic, so I shut that sucker off and used a catalytic heater. I think the smell is related to it’s newness; at least I hope that’s what it is. I’m going to run it a few times at home to see if the smell goes away.
I was amazed that there was no condensation on the inside of the camper after the first night. I fully expected to find water on the inside somewhere, but it was dry as a bone. I had the 2 roof vents open, maybe that was the reason there was no condensation.
I haven’t found any construction problems with the camper. Everything fits and seems to be very tight.
Some of you advised me to get the screen door and am I glad I listened to you. The yellowjackets are out in force and the screen door worked to perfection. There were so many of those pests you couldn’t eat outside.
We’re starting to add cabinets, etc. to the inside of the camper. I hope to have most of it done within the next couple of weeks.
Jim
I live in the Sacramento area, so we're not too far apart.
Jim
We are going camping with Vince this weekend. Friday I'm in a seminar in Pleasanton, then ~4pm we leave, go through Tracy and south on 5 to 152, over to King City for the night. Saturday we will go to Ft. Hunter Ligget and the San Antonio Mission, then camping somewhere in the Los Padres Natl Forest. Why don't you come with us?
If you come, I'll bring the sway bar.
Later,
Mike L
I was a bit surprised that it had a six-way plug on it since the camper does not 'wrap-around', i.e. it has no brake, turn signal or back-up lights. I expected when I opened the plug that it would not be full. It was, 7 wires... Black, Green, Red, White, Blue, Brown and Yellow in the middle. The only thing unusual about the camper is that it has an internal battery box vented outside. I haven't yet tried to trace the wiring but am puzzled. I thought most of the smaller truck campers would have a four-flat plug. Before I call Bigfoot would anyone hazard a guess as to what all this wiring is for?
Thanks!
Kingfishgus – Unlike you, I prefer a smoother less firm ride. I drove all the different makes of trucks several times before I made a decision about which to buy. IMHO the Chevy and Toyota rode much better than the Ford and Dodge. The ride was one of the reasons I chose the Silverado.
The Fords I test drove didn’t ride all that bad (they are trucks after all); I would have been happy with one of those and I like the look of the Ford SDs. Actually I would have been happy with any of the trucks I drove. But you have to make a choice and if I had mine to do over again the only thing I would have changed was to get a 2500 rather than a 1500. I’m still kicking myself for that one.
Vince4 – Thanks for the info, but in the case of the sway bar it’s a matter of want not need. And since Mike is going to give me a real GOOD deal (aren’tcha Mike?) – why not?
Mledtje – I’m going to have to pass on the camping trip. I’m going to be fishing in Idaho the following week and have a number of things to do before leaving. However, I’m also going to be in Pleasanton on Friday – maybe we can hookup there.
Jim
I'll be at a seminar Friday at TUV (German Safety Agency), 1279 Quarry Lane. I'll be there from 8 am to 4 pm. The seminar is supposed to end at 4:30, but I'm betting they let us out a little early on a Friday.
Take 580 East from 680 to Santa Rita Road South. After 1.5-2 miles, Left on Valley Avenue. after .25-.5 miles, turn right on Quarry Lane. The TUV seminar is in Unit A. I've never been there, and those are the directions I have.
You should be able to ask a receptionist for me, and I will take a break to take care of our business.
I said I would give you 1/2 price on the sway bar. I think I said $60. I'll bring the sway bar with me.
Do you need steps for your camper? I made a new step for my camper and have Vince's old 3 step aluminum setup from Camping World for $139 (CW #3412). $50 including mounting bracket. Anybody else want them?
How about a 1 year old Marine/RV Deep Cycle Battery? $25
That wouldn't come close to cleaning my garage/barn, but it wouldn't hurt.
Later,
Mike L
I found the seminar place OK with those directions.
When you turn south on Quarry Lane (at a signal) the TUV building is on your immediate left. But, you have to go past and make a U-turn. Then turn into the first parking lot for that building. The door is labeled Suite A.
It looks like we will finish up about 2-2:30, with a lunch around 12-12:30.
I’ve got the sway bar in the truck, and I’m ready to go camping.
Mike L
Drove down to King City and checked into the San Lorenzo County Park. Not a bad campground. Tons of free firewood for campers - of course, we didn't find out about the firewood until the next morning. We took some for use the next night. Vince and Terri, and their friend Attila (the Hun-garian) came down in two trucks. Vince's 2500 with Bertha on board, and Atilla sleeping in the back of his Dodge Dakota.
Saturday morning, we drove over to Ft. Hunter Ligget and toured the old San Antonio Mission. Then up to the Los Padres Natl Forest where we hunted up a campground Vince had found on the internet. 2.0 miles past a certain signpost, turn left and go to end of the road. It was only about 3/4 of a mile to the end of the road.
We set up camp under a big old oak with a huge nest way up in the tree. We spent the afternoon fighting the flies, and worrying about all the gunfire. And the evening trading lies around the campfire. We had a wonderful light show, much to Terry's dismay as I showed Vince my new PIAA driving/fog lights.
Then we heard some rustling up in the tree - shined the big flashlight up towards the nest and discovered it was a rat's nest!!
Fortunately, we didn't hear the rats at night. The next morning, after breaking camp, we headed bad home to check on the foofers while Vince and Attila checked out the dirt road we wanted to try.
Vince will have to report on road itself.
The roofers are not anywhere near done. Maybe by Thursday!
Later,
Mike L
http://members.home.net/vofm/bar.html
It's a collection of my Hellwig bar installation notes.
And here is Mike's new truck with the old camper
Palomino B1500, Sun-Lite Eagle WS, Phoenix - 4 models, Hallmark - 5 models, Starcraft - Starmate model, Northstar - TS100 model.
Jim
I am thinking of trading for one with an inside shower and wondered about condensation and mildew problems with pop-up models.
From what I have read most hard sides are no taller than pop-ups when open, thus, no more head room.
We are going to look at Tow-Lite Hi-Low tag-along models next weekend. Anyone know anything about them?
Are the arms of the bar supposed to be level, or a certain distance above or below level? What about the length of the adjustable links – they were already set (and looked the same as the pictures of Vince’s installation) so I just left them alone.
I leave tomorrow for a week of fishing and the first real test of my FourWheel camper.
Life is good!
Jim
"To sometimes lie on the grass under the trees, listening to the murmur of water, or watching the clouds float across the sky, is by no means a waste of time."
I'm glad the installation went smoothly. I don't remember any torque specs, I just tightened things down and all the fasteners have either locknuts or double nuts to prevent loosening.
Actually, my memory is starting to return, there might have been a generic torque spec, XX lb-ft for 3/8", YY lb-ft for 1/2" etc. Or was that the receiver hitch that had that?
My recollection is the arms of the sway bar were about level.
Enjoy your fishing trip. We look forward hearing your after trip report on your camper.
Mike L
I looked on my torque wrench and couldn't find the XX or YY settings - is that one of those 'Made in China' models that you have? Harbor Tools here I come.
Jim
I only used the front tiedown anchor plates from the kit I bought, and have the complete set with the old plates available.
The available set is:
CA-UT8, and it fits:
1997-1998 Ford F250/350 (over 8500 GVW)
1980-1996 Ford F-Series (all)
1973-1998 Chevrolet/GMC (all full size)
1999 Chevrolet/GMC 2500/3500 (over 8600 GVW)
1987-1996 Dodge Dakota
The plates are in good shape, and the rest of the kit is new. I paid $90, so $45 is my asking price.
You can check them out on the HappiJac website:
www.HappiJac.com
Mike L
I'm a hematologist, not a gastroenterologist but I can give free advice for that specialty too. A standard recommendation for reflux is to put the head of the bed on 4 inch blocks and to avoid eating/drinking for at least two hours prior to going to bed. Parking on a moderate side slope should give the 4 inch rise to the bed, probably won't bother your fridge too much - and don't bump your head on the light fixture if you sit up suddenly. Good luck!
I purchased an Arctic Pack option for what Four Wheel says is for ‘extreme cold conditions’, and while it was cold when I used it on a recent fishing trip in Idaho (high teens and low twenties at night), it wasn’t what I would consider extreme cold. And yet, if I hadn’t had that Arctic Pack my furnace would have probably never shut off. The stitching in the fabric upper walls of the camper left small holes that, in my opinion, should have been sealed, just as high quality tents have their seams sealed. And, as in tents, if those seams aren’t sealed the unit can’t be considered weatherproof. When I put my hand behind the Arctic Pack I could feel cold air coming through those holes. I have since purchased some seam sealer and applied it myself.
The floor creaked and popped whenever I walked on it. The problem wasn’t apparent when I first picked the camper up, but was very evident as it got more use. When I called Four Wheel they told me it was a common problem and what needed to be done to fix it. I requested they correct the problem, which they did at no cost to me. I live within an hour of their plant, but if someone lived further away fixing that floor could have been a problem.
I’ve also had electrical problems which I’ve had Four Wheel correct. Again not so easy to have corrected if you live some distance away from them.
In spite of the problems I’m still satisfied with the camper. The problems could be attributed to a new unit and have all been corrected, and no new problems have cropped up.
Now that’s customer service!
Jim
Now you have a real bargain, a new bar for a used bar price. Vince, are you paying attention here?
I'm sorry to hear the quality of the 4Wheel Camper did not live up to my expectations. I did have reservations about the 'Artic Pak' design, but though I must be wrong. Our Phoenix has been used in the 20's without the heater on - 34 in the camper in the morning. Thank heaven for down. And for the relocated thermostat that let's my wife turn on the heater without getting out of bed.
I did have a longer list of problems with my Phoenix camper than you just commented on, but I had to fix them all myself - 1200 miles is too far to go for service.
I'm glad that overall you are happy with the unit.
Maybe someday I'll see your camper, and you'll get to see mine,
Mike L
Did Hellwig say what is better about the new bar? It would need to be significant to make me pull mine out and replace it.
I too, appreciate your detailed review of the Four Wheel Camper you purchased. It will certainly help my decision process when the time comes. I was focused on the Four Wheel (for the same reasons you were) and Phoenix due to weight and now am looking at Litecraft as well(another Denver, Colorado company). There campers had some nice features but the weight is 200-300 lbs. more.
Interestingly, I found another review of a Four Wheel Camper on the web that mentioned a couple of the same concerns you did. One was the unsealed fabric seams and water problems. I must praise Four Wheel however, for their customer response. I've e-mailed on three occasions and received responses within 24-48 hours with specific answers to my questions. It seems you received prompt service for your concerns. I'm gladly you were able resolve them.
I don't want to stray too far off topic but I tend to get the feeling that our booming economy has been at the cost of quality control. Phoneix had a big help wanted sign on their door and Litecraft mentioned they just can't keep up with demand. I wonder if in the rush to fill orders company's are letting quality control slip a bit. Maybe its easier to do that and then fix a few problems here and there afterwards to get orders filled then get it right the first time. Sorry for the digression...
Here's the address for Litecraft:
www.lite-craftcampers.com It's not the world's best developed web site but has some photo's of the campers. Has anyone looked into these?
Joe
The biggest strike against the 4 Wheel camper was cost. It was only about $1000 more than a similarly equipped Phoenix, but when we add in CA sales tax it was more like $2000.
I also liked the 4 Wheel camper because it is so thin in the overhang part. Only about 6" thick at that point. Most popups are about 12" thick and that bothered me. So, when Phoenix said they would make a special that had duplicated the outside dimensions of the 4 Wheel camper, that is what I went with.
We are still modifying little things to make it fit us better. Just today, I changed the way you access the area under the table, and made a shelf inside the porta-pottie storage area for a 17 x 17 x 7.5" storage area. Tomorrow I will make some way to pivot the bed (1/2 over the cab, 1/2 overhangs into the living area) up and latch it to the roof for more living space. Currently, to gain that space, we slide the back half of the bed forward, over the front half. But, that means making the bed all over again. With the pivoting bed section, I can swing it up, use the living space, lower the bed and it remains well made.
After Thanksgiving, we will take the grandson camping. The first time we will have had more than two people sleeping/living inside. Hope that works out OK.
Later,
Mike L