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Comments
For comparison, my 99 Silverado 4x4 has a load capacity of 2000# and a camper capacity of 1340#. When we loaded a 1200# camper, myself, my wife, food, water, gas, clothers, etc. we were right at the maximum capacity of the truck. You might look at a larger truck and a used camper.
Oltroll - welcome back! Always nice to see someone using the camper and having a good time. You didn't miss the 'Falls', you are simply saving that for another trip!
4 days till vacation starts!!!!!!
Hey Vince, you want to take 6 weeks and go to Alaska and NWT next summer?
Mike L
The Dalton Highway is one hell of a road isn't it? I tow my boat down there all the time to put it in on the Yukon to go fishing and moose hunting. That road is a true test of a truck to haul anything up that road and back.
Next trip I will get that picture.
The Stewart-Cassiar Highway was my favorite gravel highway, though.
Mike L
But, don't let that bother you. The gravel roads in the far north are generally smoother than the paved ones. The paved roads get all sorts of frost heaves and huge potholes. Gravel seems to be more forgiving and easier to patch. When traveling on those gravel roads, keep your eyes open for dark spots, or spots with different texture. Those can be soft spots. Maybe a patch of snow sat and melted on that spot, and it is soft, almost mud, and similar to a pothole. They are fairly easy to see and we never hit one at speed.
The Alaska highway is more or less completely paved, except for the 100+ kilometers under construction at any given time.
The Cassiar is quite a bit shorter than the Alaska highway and runs through the mountains. The Alaska highway from Dawson Creek to Ft. Nelson runs more in the foothills/plains. The largest Grizzly we saw was down on the road to Stewart/Hyder. And the Cassiar is nearly empty. We only had one other camper in campgrounds with us (early June).
Mike L
Can't comment much on the views from that stretch, we couldn't see them!
My wife really liked Homer. We stayed in a campground out on the end of the 'Spit'. Great halibut everywhere. Great scenery. Great glaciers. Great wildlife.
In case you can't tell, I'm ready to return to the far north!
Mike L
I have read your post 531 & 533 LINKS a dozen times to see if there was any clue as to how the factory option is supposed to work.
I am hoping that either of you or someone knows how this factory system is supposed to function because OnStar connected me with three different dealers and not a one had a clue.
Just returned from a week camp out (no 110vac where the hords of us camp) at the annual Oshkosh flyin event where i succeeded to run down all three batteries. One brand new marrine in the camper, the aux and needless to say the standard starter battery in the PU.
I (like a fool) assumed that the Aux Bat. Relay isolated the std. bat when the ignition is off and that i was only camping on the Aux. and Camper bat in parrallel.
The OWNERS MANUAL does state the following so i thought at least one dealer would have been able to say yeah-thats right because -------!! and i would follow the instructions -- but i would like to know why then, it comes factory wired the way it does.
OWNERS MANUAL Page 4-81
"The aux bat provisionn can be used to supply electrical power to additional equip. like a camper"
--Shows a drawing of the RELAY located on passenger's side of the vehicle, next to the Aux Bat.-- & Shows cable connected to stud 'A' & stud 'B' (and this is exactly the way the truck is with two different heavy gage RED wires with covers, one connected to each stud)
Now the instructions go on ---
"When using this provision, connection should only be made to the upper stud 'A'. Do Not make connection to the lower stud 'B' of the Relay. ----- etc.
OK-
1- So why does it come factory wired with a heavy red wire going to each stud??
2- If/When i disconnect the wire to stud 'B' what was it their for in the first place.
MY NOTE - EACH STUD HAS BATTERY POWER WITH THE IGNITION IN ENGINE RUN OR ENGINE OFF POSITION so the relay is doing nothing it looks to me.
God Help!!!
75v
Mike - you back home from the Maidrite Already??
KO
But if it was set-up correctly, i should not have drained the std. PU batt (as it is, actually all three). you agree??
There must be some reason tha manual says 'no wire on stud 'b' but yet it comes from factory that way.
I want to find out exactly how the system is supposed to work befor I follow the owners manual and take the wire off stud 'b' as i would like to avoid hooking up the camper and simualate the failure again to see if the std. battery actually does disconect and not drain with the Aux and camper batt.
Thks - please keep your ideas coming. Dealers are No Help and their STUPID SHOP MANUALS being only available to them on computer now makes it almost impossible for them to search out Aux. Batt. information and solution.
Or at least it's so time consuming they have no incentive to do it.
They say 'well you'll have to bring it in so we can test it'.
Hell- I've already tested it to battery failure and i don't want them screwing around with something they admittedly know nothing about.
75v
This is not a complex system. Don't despair, I'm 100% confident we can figure it out. I tried to send you some scans of the factory drawings but your email address isn't listed under your profile.
Some facts. There must be two wires on the relay for it to do the job. The factory is crazy, don't worry about why it's wired stupid, just fix it. You are correct in your assumption that the aux and camper batt should be in parallel and may be run down all the way without affecting the truck batt. This is why the relay is there and it does work because this is how my truck is set up.
We may want to do this by email but first I have some questions.
-Are you electrically/mechanically inclined?
-Did you get the Camper Wiring option on your truck?
-Who wired your camper?
-Do you own a volt meter?
You can email me at vofm@home.com.
Vince
As for the wiring, without looking at the wiring diagram I would assume that the B stud is the input to the relay and the A stud is the output,when the manual states that the connection should be made to the upper A stud and not the B stud they mean the connection to the camper.
Thompson pass rises 2800 ft in 7 miles, if my memory is correct. That's 400 ft/mile, every mile, continuous uphill. Or, an 8% continuous climb. We had our 1500 w/4.8L engine, and had no problems maintaining speed up the hill.
Tonight we finish packing and tomorrow we take off for the month of August. We are bringing our laptop, but don't know how often, or even if we will be able to log on while on the road.
Later,
Mike L
When I installed the Aux Battery relay in my truck, I followed most of Vince's instructions. I used the factory relay and the cable from the starter (fulltime source of +12V). The connector in the wiring harness supplies power to turn on the relay only when the truck is on. I have run down my aux battery without pulling down the main battery.
Anyway, the truck supplies a signal to the relay. Fulltime +12V goes into the relay, the other side of the relay goes to the aux battery and camper. And the truck +12V and the aux +12V are totally separate when the ignition is off.
If you can't get any help and want to see my hookup, I'll be close by about the 6th or 7th. You can call my dad's house (319)439-5348 if you want to get together for some corn nuggets or a Maid-Rite, or just to check out a working aux battery setup.
I will probably check this group one last time tomorrow morning before we leave.
Later,
Mike L
vince4 - post 618
wk email loren.bovee@frco.com
FAX 641-754-2731
1) elect/mech inclined?-Yes
2) camper wiring opt?-yes including 5th whl.
3) Who?-Camper plug and 5th whl-Me
4) Volt meter?-Yes
vince4/lariat1/mledtje - Here's the latest working with my dealer who called in a GM tech. adviser via phone and fax today.
Received schematic for Aux Bat & camper wiring.
Turns out that the Primary Bat. is connected to camper wiring and Aux. bat is supposed to be isloated by the relay when ignition is off. (opposite of what we all thought but no big deal if the relay is working - battery is a battery so don't care which one goes to camper -- Primary or Aux.)
When Primary/camper bat. run down relay is supposed to connect Aux. battery for starting which didn't happen so --
will be checking the relay tonite to see if it is functioning.
Stay tuned later tonite and i'll post relay test result. Of course it could have been a relay failure but working now!!
Mike - Would like to meet you when you get to M'town. Please let me know which day it turns out to be and i'll drop what ever
My wk phone 641-754-3401 -- I'm on the phone a lot so if you get my phone mail punch '0' and have me paged.
If you don't mind Cessna Skyhawk rides let me know and might work for late evening when it cools down an NO bumpy air.
Cessna N1575V
Loren
The signal to the relay on my truck has the relay open with the key off, and closed with the key on. My wiring is self made, and I ran the camper off the aux battery, and the main battery is totally isolated when the ignition is off.
We will take you number with us, and depending on circumstances, we may take you up on your offer.
Mike L
Ok - The GM Tech. Expert today stated that the Primary bat is connected to camper charging system--(SPECIFICALLY Not Aux.) and the Aux. relay will close when the key is turned ON to bring the Aux bat online to provide the starting/system power if the Primary/Camper batteries are discharged.
I'll probably find out some revalation tomorrow and have to EAT these words (which i would be happy to do) BUT the way it looks to me rignt now - I CAN'T BELIEVE GM COULD BE SO INCREDIBLY STUPID.
TEST 1- The Aux. bat relay clicks when i turn the key ON and OFF so it is working. Key OFF relay open and Aux. bat is disconnected totaly from everything--i mean EVERYTHING.
Key ON and relay closes and Aux. is in the circuit and would be charging if needed.
TEST 2- I disconnected the ground to the primary bat simulating a run down Camper & Primary bat. AND WHAT TO MY WONDERING EYES WOULD HAPPEN WHEN I TURN THE IGNITION ON ----- NOTHING - THERE IS NO POWER TO ANY SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS ALL FEED BY THE PRIMARY BATTERY (Why am i not surprised??).
Unless i have to eat these words tomorrow, the Aux. Battery is completly worthless as now provided by GM.
75v
What is connected to the output of the aux battery relay? The input must be the aux battery, but where does it go?
I could understand the camper wiring going directly to the main battery. They set it up that way so it would work when no aux battery exists.
Can you find the feed wire that goes to the camper wiring, and connect that to the output of the aux battery relay? That would seem to solve GM's little screwup.
Mike L
Tomorrow it's going to be GM's turn to figure out how to get the camper power feed from where ever it is now to the Aux. bat.
The problem is going to be how to change the wiring harness so that the Aux. feeds to the camper harness and the primary is isolated from the camper harness when the ignition is off.
What a bunch of dorks!!
Have a safe trip- See ya in IA
Loren
1. switch off, both batteries connected - measured ~12 volts between stud A and ground.
2. Disconnected ground on Aux battery - measured 0 volts between stud A and ground.
This indicates to me that the voltage on stud A (relay output) is coming from Aux battery and is isolated from the starting battery. Thus connecting to stud A will run down the Aux battery but not the starting battery.
The aux battery relay is only energized when the key is in the RUN position, not the START position. The aux battery is a remote charger of sorts. When you kill the primary battery with your camper, you place the key in the RUN position for a few minutes. The aux battery charges the primary. Then when you turn the key to START, the relay opens to prevent starting current from flowing through it. I can't see any other way to benefit from the aux battery except with a set of jumper cables. That is actually not so crazy because the aux is always kept charged.
This is obviously a stupid system. The only reason I can think why they did it this way is so the camper/trailer positive feed doesn't have to be relocated on trucks with vs. without the aux option.
So Loren, this explains why you couldn't start your truck. You didn't know the turn the key and wait 10 minutes trick. I really wonder if enough charge would transfer to turn over the engine. It all depends on the relative voltage. Anyway the solution is just to move the STUD1 red wire (camper feed) from the Engine Wiring Harness Junction Block to the aux battery positive terminal on the aux relay. No other changes needed. Then you will draw off the aux when stopped and charge it when running.
buzzb, I'm not sure where your stud A is. If it's on the aux relay then you were just measuring the aux battery positive. When the ground was disconnected you no longer were measuring across the battery. Since the relay was open (key off) you weren't connected to the primary battery either. If you meant stud 1 over in the EWHJB fuse box, then somehow your truck got wired intelligently, but I doubt that.
I've updated my web site with the schematics and a brief explanation.
http://members.home.net/vofm/batt/batt.html
Let us know what happens!
Vince
Relocating the stud 1 red wire camper feed to stud A should work as you describe and be protected by the "mega fuse". It would be interesting to see just what this fuse is but I don't feel like moving the battery.
It appears that GMC saved a few dollars by not rerouting the stud 1 (camper/trailer) feed to be from the aux battery when trucks were so equipped. If this is the case as vince4 describes, it is even worse because the main starting battery is not a deep cycle design and its life will be shortened being treated this way. The factory aux battery does not appear to be a deep cycle either, but one could substituted as vince4 did.
Please somebody tell me GMC wasn't this stupid/shortsighted.
I'm going to advise my dealer today of the necessary change and request them to "?MAKE?" GM issue a Techincal Service Bulletin advising ALL dealers of this "SCREW UP" and provide
PROPER INSTRUCTIONS on -----------
1) Where to disconnect the POWER FEED in the Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment & the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Wiring Provision.
2) Provide proper WIRING HARNESS with SHIELDING and INSTRUCTIONS for SAFELY RE-ROUTING the camper/5th wh feed TO Stud A on the Aux. Battery Relay.
Short of getting this out of GM within the next 5 years i will require them to issue a letter for the same so that GM Legal Department can not later claim UNAUTHERIZED wiring changes.
Will keep all advise on this move.
Loren (75v)
http://www.alaska.net/~nwsar/data/photo/valdez_west.jpg
I sent a letter in part repeated below to a Gm Corp. Sales Planner contact that provide lot of answers during my six month delivey wait.
--After considerable discussion over the Internet last night it is clear that GM should have ran the Power Feed for the Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment & the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Options to the auxiliary battery relay Stud A referred to in the Owners Manual on page 4-81 (terminal 'L' in the schematic you provided).
I would request that GM be asked to ISSUE a TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN when customers order the Auxiliary Battery TP2 Option in conjunction with Z82 Heavy Duty Trailering Equipment and/or the UY2 Camper/5th Wheel Wiring Options ADVISING all DEALERS & CUSTOMERS how to properly and SAFELY reconfigure the power feed wiring from it's current location in the Primary Battery Circuit to the auxiliary battery relay stud A.--
His Response --
"Thanks for your letter explaining wiring problems with the TP2 Aux. Battery option. I can tell you that the factory option is on stop right now for revisions.
The revisions will most likly result in a service bulletin to modify those already out.
I'll send you another reply if I have any updates. In the mean time I will forward your comments to the brand Quality Team."
75v
75v, I don't know how important it is to you to have the factory do the fix vs. living with it the way it is. Since it's not likely anything will happen soon, I would just go ahead and make the change myself. If you do a good job they aren't going to make a fuss unless something in that system goes bad, and maybe even not then. One out you have is to do the work such that it can be restored to factory. Don't cut off the ring lug on the red wire, just use a bolt to connect it to a second ring lug (or use a breaker like I did). Other than that it's one wire going across the engine bay.
I agree with buzzb that the non-deep-cycle battery won't hold up to RV use for too long. Maybe when GM moves the wire they will start putting DC batteries in the aux position. I guess GM's thinking is that the extra battery really is just an auxiliary for self-jumpering or heavy loads and doesn't have anything to do with RVs.
If the aux. battery is supposed to be a "recharge reservior" for the main battery (i.e. you're supposed to turn the key to the "on" position for several minutes before trying to start the motor), wouldn't it be **better** to have a deep-cycle battery as the "aux. battery" anyway? But an even more fundamental problem with the "recharge reservior" theory is this: how do you know that the "main battery" is good? If it's shorted internally, it will just drain the "aux. battery" as well, and you're no better off than you would have been if you didn't even have the "aux. battery".
If the idea is to be able to run the vehicle even if the "main battery" goes out for any reason, it's best to have the circuitry set up so the two batteries "swap roles"; in other words, the "aux. battery" is used to crank the starter motor and help regulate voltage (an important secondary role for the battery), while the "main battery" just passively re-charges, if it can. In this case, using two automotive batteries makes sense.
I think G.M. may have committed another "d'oh!" with this one.
My official position to Gm and my Dealer is to get Gm to ackknowledge the screw-up and fix the problem, which according to the Sales Planner guy may be in the works.
It's kinda like trying to wag the dog, but when customers start using the 'SAFTY' word the DOG sometimes starts listening better.
BTW - Where is the camper feed wire connection actually at so i can disconnect it from the Primary circuit to extend it over to the relay??
Hey - The help/interest on this has sure been appreciated and it took this group about one nite to know what the solution was.
The dealers only solution would have been 'ya gotta bring it in so we can test it!'
I'll try to take good care of Mike and the Maidrite deal when he gets here. (:-)
75v
What I was asking is where is the camper feed wire connection actually at so i can disconnect it from the Primary circuit to extend it over to the relay?? (Now i would pay for this information (:-))
Does it go to a junction block somewhere?
Wired directly into the master fuse block on the left front fender?
Physically where is the convenient point to disconnect that wire to extend it to the relay without cutting to allow the option of reconnecting it if one found it necessary for GM issue.
I don't want to just pull it out of wiring harness and cut it.
Thks -- 75v
75v, I thought you read my website battery instructions many times???? Maybe you just wanted to make me feel good. Ha. Anyway, the heavy red trailer/camper wire terminates on a stud under the fuse box thing behind the primary battery. If I remember correctly it's the left stud as you will be looking at it. You will need to lift the plastic housing to get at the nut. To remove the housing you must remove the fender brace above it, but I was able to free the wire without doing so. I just lifted it enough to gain access.
While you are in there, R&D Truck Accessories sells a nifty relay for $15 that keeps the low beams on when the high beams are on. It connects inside the same box. It's an easy install, they supply everything.
http://www.truckautoaccessories.com/rd/
I like your nifty relay suggestion for the low beam on with high. If you think you can stand any more of this i'll get one on order -- Thanks
I'll bit the bullet and start prying on the fuse box soon as i get the Hi/Lo relay. Or maybe i'll have Mike show me when he get to the Maidrite!!
75v
I also bought another black box from R&D that unlocks the doors when you put the trans in park. Maybe they offer this as a programming option on the new trucks but they didn't in 2000. I got tired of slamming into the door when I wanted to jump out for something. The box wires under the dash, costs about $30, and works flawlessly.
Tom
If you want to add the aux battery to your truck as I did, I have a list of factory part numbers on my site. You probably know this if you've been reading along.
We found a really nice camping area in Wyoming. Called Natural Bridge (County) Park), just off I-25 between Douglass and Caspar. A nice river runs through the canyon, under a 90' natural bridge. Very clean, neat and FREE!! We will stop on our way back. The only problem is the gates are closed from 8-8. So we have to sleep in that day!
Later,
Mike
I had planned on getting that option for the HD I am just about to order (to pull a travel trailer I plan to buy). Seems I won't miss a lot. Thanks for you and the others distributing so much info that you worked hard to get.
The PY0 polished alum wheels are also on hold for the LS models (with the 1SB option package) - another option I had, and one that means more to me.
BTW - I read your early June posts on the "Introduce Yourself" page. What do you do for a living? I'm curious about the nuclear-related trip you had to make to upstate NY back then. I'm a reactor engineer/core designer on the TX Gulf Coast.
Mike
We have two 6V golf cart batteries on our travel trailer, 220 amp-hour capacity for less than $100. Truck recharges them automatically....
I'd only want the extra underhood battery for one reason, if I had a slide in camper without a battery.... Then, I'd want a deep cycle.
Living in South Texas, I've fried some batteries in the heat. A spare for the truck also seems handy.
I'll look at using the golf cart batteries on the trailer, though. Thanks!
Mike